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  1. #1

    VPS vs Private Cloud Layer

    Hi,

    Could someone explain the major differances between VPS hosting such as: xtrahost.co.uk/virtualisation/windowsvps.html

    and private cloud layer hosting such as : softlayer.com/cloudlayer.html

    What would be a better solution for a mission critical system that needs to run the entire office for a company of 50 and a pretty intensive website at the same time?

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    VPS generally runs on a single host therefore if that host goes down so does your site, they can restore to another host but that takes time.
    Clouds are more for high availability, your VPS is spread across many hosts and they can remove a host without causing any downtime. This is normally more expensive though.
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  3. #3
    Thanks. So would you recommend the cloud option for an absolutely mission critical service (IE this service is going to be running all our internal office systems) over a VPS service?

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    ZanyHost's assessment is incredibly oversimplified.

    Softlayer's CloudLayer IS a VPS product. It's powered by Xen (specifically XenServer). You're getting too caught up in the marketing lingo.

    Choosing based on the host's SLA would probably be your best bet if uptime is critical.
    Last edited by e-Sensibility; 11-19-2009 at 05:01 AM.
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    Personally for a mission critical service I would go with softlayer, in this case for two reasons they have a more prominent name in the industry and in theory the cloud service should give you higher up time than a normal VPS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZanyHost View Post
    in theory the cloud service should give you higher up time than a normal VPS.
    There's no theory. They're using Xen, specifically the commercial XenServer which provides automated failover and live-migration capabilities among a few other things like storage management.

    There's no magic "cloudy-ness" to it, I can promise you that; I have extensive experience with it first hand.
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    I can recommend wiredtree as a really good choice. Not sure about the details of their cloud products.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Zee View Post
    So would you recommend the cloud option for an absolutely mission critical service (IE this service is going to be running all our internal office systems) over a VPS service?
    Yes and no. If you read up on various cloud hosting providers, you will find that 100% uptime is not achieved still. However, your best bet is to get a cloud server at 2 different locations and replicate data to the other so that if one is down, the other will take over. The points of failure for cloud servers are the software and power. These are the usual ones who give the most problems.

    Google has a cloud of servers, but they are still experiencing downtimes.

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    and private cloud layer hosting such as : softlayer.com/cloudlayer.html
    You have had experience with this? so your saying software advertise a cloud service but don't actually provide one?
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    Quote Originally Posted by e-Sensibility View Post
    ZanyHost's assessment is incredibly oversimplified.

    Softlayer's CloudLayer IS a VPS product. It's powered by Xen (specifically XenServer). You're getting too caught up in the marketing lingo.

    Choosing based on the host's SLA would probably be your best bet if uptime is critical.
    I completely agree with this approach. Resilience is the goal - avoid the buzzwords!

    http://bobdoeshosting.blogspot.com/2...loud-mean.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by RincewindWizard View Post
    I completely agree with this approach. Resilience is the goal - avoid the buzzwords!

    http://bobdoeshosting.blogspot.com/2...loud-mean.html
    Read my comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaptopFreak View Post
    Read my comment.
    Do you have any experience of multi-homing corporate systems with automated fail-over? Can you recommend any data-mirroring services that achieve this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RincewindWizard View Post
    Do you have any experience of multi-homing corporate systems with automated fail-over? Can you recommend any data-mirroring services that achieve this?
    a crafty rsync can do the job
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizness View Post
    a crafty rsync can do the job
    Excellent - so that covers off the mirroring. What's the best way to automatically fail-over onto a geographically separate set of servers / different ip-range? I'd imagine DNS is too slow, unless you set the TTL ridiculously low. Would you create an ha-cluster/proxy that forwarded traffic to either location? How would you ensure that once the 2nd cluster became live, it updated the primary before flicking back? Sounds pretty complicated to me!

  15. #15
    Greetings:

    Quote Originally Posted by ZanyHost View Post
    VPS generally runs on a single host therefore if that host goes down so does your site, they can restore to another host but that takes time.
    Clouds are more for high availability, your VPS is spread across many hosts and they can remove a host without causing any downtime. This is normally more expensive though.
    Are you stating that one vps node / guest operating system per physical server (host) is the norm?

    Are you stating that on a cloud, a VPS would exist at the same time across many hosts?

    thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZanyHost View Post
    You have had experience with this? so your saying software advertise a cloud service but don't actually provide one?
    We use citrix xenserver -- the same exact product softlayer is using. We just choose to offer our customers hard facts about our service and equipment rather than empty buzz-words like "cloud."
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    Quote Originally Posted by e-Sensibility View Post
    We use citrix xenserver -- the same exact product softlayer is using. We just choose to offer our customers hard facts about our service and equipment rather than empty buzz-words like "cloud."
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    Now you creating that thread in shared hosting makes sense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by e-Sensibility View Post
    There's no theory. They're using Xen, specifically the commercial XenServer which provides automated failover and live-migration capabilities among a few other things like storage management.

    There's no magic "cloudy-ness" to it, I can promise you that; I have extensive experience with it first hand.
    What exactly is your definition of "cloud" or "cloud server"? Because the only thing I am seeing is that you are being ridiculously picky about what is or is not considered a cloud and from all of your posts I've read on this forum I would think that your opinion is that there is no such thing as a "cloud".

    It is a new term for sure and doesn't have a well defined meaning but there is a generalized meaning that most understand in that multiple servers are used to serve content and that the cloud is theoretically more of a highly available solution. Basically it's a clustered setup of some sort and cloud servers are just VPSs placed on this clustered setup.

    I don't see what you're getting your underwear in a twist about...

    Quote Originally Posted by e-Sensibility View Post
    We use citrix xenserver -- the same exact product softlayer is using. We just choose to offer our customers hard facts about our service and equipment rather than empty buzz-words like "cloud."
    What is this in your signature if you don't use "empty buzz-words like "cloud." ???
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    I'm very open about telling people what a cloud is, obviously, but if people want to see the term (which apparently they do) I'm not going to shield their eyes from it

    Way to hijack, btw
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    Basically it's a clustered setup of some sort and cloud servers are just VPSs placed on this clustered setup.

    I don't see what you're getting your underwear in a twist about...
    People think they're getting some type of active/active configuration across 100's of servers. That's what my underwear are in a twist about; it's incredibly misleading.
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    I didn't hijack - you came into the thread and started tossing all kinds of bs around and I pointed it out.

    You say that you don't use "empty buzz-words like 'cloud.'" however it's exactly what I see in your signature.

    You put down every other cloud provider saying that the cloud doesn't exist and then you talk about your cloud service as though it's the greatest. Imho 90% of your posts look like signature spam and/or poor marketing - and I'm not the only one that thinks this.

    You may want to sit down and clearly define what the "cloud" is and then make sure you keep your story straight from thread to thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by e-Sensibility View Post
    People think they're getting some type of active/active configuration across 100's of servers. That's what my underwear are in a twist about; it's incredibly misleading.
    And your "cloud" product is any less misleading how?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    I didn't hijack - you came into the thread and started tossing all kinds of bs around and I pointed it out.

    You say that you don't use "empty buzz-words like 'cloud.'" however it's exactly what I see in your signature.

    You put down every other cloud provider saying that the cloud doesn't exist and then you talk about your cloud service as though it's the greatest. Imho 90% of your posts look like signature spam and/or poor marketing - and I'm not the only one that thinks this.

    You may want to sit down and clearly define what the "cloud" is and then make sure you keep your story straight from thread to thread.
    By 90% of my posts you mean the two threads that I posted in regarding the cloud.

    You don't mean the custom scripts I've contributed to other members for no reason other than being generous, or the hundreds of posts I made here before I even had an affiliation with any company, do you?

    As for putting cloud providers down, I'm putting myself in the same category: A cloud server == A VPS. Not my fault if one term gets more clicks than the other, and it's not a bad thing if I get something out of a forum that I've contributed a lot to.

    Or should you get flamed every time you post something in a thread that relates to a product your business sells?
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    Quote Originally Posted by e-Sensibility View Post
    By 90% of my posts you mean the two threads that I posted in regarding the cloud.
    Yes - your story seems to change from thread to thread regarding cloud/cluster/ha hosting depending on what you have in your signature at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by e-Sensibility View Post
    You don't mean the custom scripts I've contributed to other members for no reason other than being generous, or the hundreds of posts I made here before I even had an affiliation with any company, do you?
    No, as those wouldn't be on the same topic as this.

    Quote Originally Posted by e-Sensibility View Post
    As for putting cloud providers down, I'm putting myself in the same category: A cloud server == A VPS. Not my fault if one term gets more clicks than the other, and it's not a bad thing if I get something out of a forum that I've contributed a lot to.
    You could call it a SuperNinja Server if you wanted, I don't care - just don't say one thing and do another. Don't put down one cloud provider based upon it's infrastructure if you're using the same infrastructure it just doesn't make sense and makes you look petty.

    Quote Originally Posted by e-Sensibility View Post
    Or should you get flamed every time you post something in a "shared hosting" thread?
    Go for it, if you find me posting something that's way off-topic or not helpful at all by all means feel free to report the post and/or "flame me" if that's what you feel like doing.

    I've not done anything in this thread but point out your contradictions and inconsistencies as it's extraordinarily petty for you to put down other providers for running a "cloud" and then to market yourself as a cloud provider.

    Sit down, come up with a new marketing strategy that doesn't involve bashing other companies for having a marketing strategy and then continue posting about the cloud/cluster/xenserver/whatever it is you want to post about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by e-Sensibility View Post
    ZanyHost's assessment is incredibly oversimplified.

    Softlayer's CloudLayer IS a VPS product. It's powered by Xen (specifically XenServer). You're getting too caught up in the marketing lingo.

    Choosing based on the host's SLA would probably be your best bet if uptime is critical.
    Just to be clear, this is what you're construing as "putting another company down"

    And in reality I was just informing the OP that he ZanyHost was wrong when he said a cloud was inherently more reliable than a VPS.

    Is saying "Choose based on the host's SLA" such a bad thing? After all, it does define what a company will have to give you if they don't live up to their marketing.

    And I've been very consistent in saying what a cloud is. I don't think you fully understand the difference between all of the products floating around, and I'm sorry if I confuse you when I point those differenes out.
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