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10-16-2009, 02:29 PM #1Temporarily Suspended
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What do you do about chargebacks?
We just had a client order a $200 server with us. Everything went through maxmind and 2checkout fine. So we got this server setup and online. A week later a charge back was issued and the person got $200 back. This is the first time for us having this happen. What does everyone else do about this?
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10-16-2009, 02:30 PM #2Retired Moderator
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First thing I would do would be pull the server. Then I would call the # for the person who ordered it and see whats up.
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10-16-2009, 02:34 PM #3Web Hosting Master
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I do believe that you can dispute chargebacks... If you show that the client made no attempt to contact you to resolve any issues he had, the chargeback may not be justified on their part.
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10-16-2009, 02:34 PM #4Aspiring Evangelist
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Well I hope your going to fight the chargeback, their merchant agreement if they paid with a Visa or Mastercard states that before they file a chargeback they must first contact you for a solution. They are probably going to say that they contacted you so I hope you keep a phone log, ticket/e-mail log as you can provide that as proof.
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10-16-2009, 02:39 PM #5Temporarily Suspended
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[* Sent: Vendor *] ***CHARGEBACK Details PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT TO REFUND THIS ORDER **2069711** Reason code 4837/37: No Cardholder Authorization - The Cardholder claims no one authorized to use this card placed this transaction. To resolve this chargeback: Documentation might include a legible, signed sales draft, proof of delivery, proof of positive AVS and/or a matching bill to and ship to address. You have 10 days to submit this information to 2Checkout.com's Disputes Department. After the 10 days challenging is no longer an option. The chargeback would need to be resolved with the cardholder directly. There is a challenge fee of $15 USD to challenge a chargeback. If you have any questions please contact us at chargeback@2co.com.
Thats what it says in their order on 2checkout. So I am going to give it a shot with some logs and proof and see how it goes. Thanks for the help guys!
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10-16-2009, 02:42 PM #6Aspiring Evangelist
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No problem, remember even though they are saying they did not authorize the charge, they still needed to contact you.
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10-16-2009, 02:44 PM #7Temporarily Suspended
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Keep us updated, wondering how this will go.
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10-16-2009, 03:00 PM #8Junior Guru
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Sounds like it could be their card was stolen and someone else used it to signup. If that is the reason they are giving, and you do not have an actual signature from them, there is little recourse that you will end up having.
Years ago we used to require signed contracts from all our dedicated server clients (then again, hardware was much more expensive then as well). People were annoyed, but it kept fraud to a minimum. Now if we're uncertain of an order, we do sometimes ask people to fax a copy of their card along with an ID.Datarealm Internet Services, Inc
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10-16-2009, 03:19 PM #9Web Hosting Evangelist
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Hi,
We had similar problems with 2CO.
An solution for this is as datarealm mentored to ask customer to scan his personal ID and CC.// AltusHost - European Web Hosting Provider
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10-17-2009, 01:28 AM #10Junior Guru
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Best to not offer instant service to clients with certain criteria
- country of sales
- email address used
and hold the instant service.
Than manually handle it:
- make your ordering system a little bit more intelligent and log the IP of the sales.
Use the link http://www.networldmap.com/TryIt.htm?GetLocation to check where this IP come from. Please note most of the frauds come from a proxy in USA. An IP in USA does not mean the sale comes from there. But worth to use the IP to check the location of the order.
- Call the customer at the number they provide and see the number is right or the person answering the phone knows about this order.
- Check how they found you on the search engines or referral from friend?
What was the keywords they used to find you.
It will be very easy to see if this order a legit or fraud after spending 3 minutes based on the information you collected.MBT
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10-17-2009, 01:54 AM #11Aspiring Evangelist
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10-17-2009, 01:56 AM #12Aspiring Evangelist
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10-17-2009, 02:20 PM #13Junior Guru
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I hope they refund the fee if you are successful.
Kind Regards
Christopher Smith
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10-17-2009, 02:22 PM #14Aspiring Evangelist
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10-17-2009, 05:54 PM #15Web Hosting Evangelist
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Do you have proof the customer did authorize the charge? Maybe you should contact them and see if that would be enough.
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10-17-2009, 07:45 PM #16Junior Guru Wannabe
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No they don't.
If the person claims that he wasn't the one that purchased and somebody else had stolen his credit card details why he needs (or even knows how) to contact the seller.
The problem is that it became too easy for the credit card holder not just to deny that he was the one that made the purchase ("wasn't me") but also to charge-back in any other cases (i.e. on the claim that the goods/services weren't received).
We are having a huge increase in such clients from Turkey right now.
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10-17-2009, 10:48 PM #17Aspiring Evangelist
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We used to have this a lot. We only use PayPal, and only accept payments from verified accounts. Also make sure to use something like MaxMind.
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10-17-2009, 11:17 PM #18THE Web Hosting Master
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Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
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10-18-2009, 12:19 AM #19Junior Guru Wannabe
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For PayPal to care they must loose from it (financially).
As I see it PayPal doesn't really looses anything from phished accounts, if any it gets - as it's income is generated from moving the funds from one account to another.
To greatly increase the security of the PayPal today they have to supply to the customers with SmartCard based devices, and even these may be not effective in all cases.
Ironically, actively promoting these devices may have a negative psychological effect and hurt both the image and the business of the PayPal, and that is why I believe they don't do this - as PayPal was raised as a secure alternative to paying by credit card, and if it's really not so secure why to use it in the first place?
For people that understand the matter it would actually make PayPal a more attractive, but it can scare away those who have no understanding, and these are both most of the customers and most of those that fall into phishing scams.
It brings us to another important point, and it's that there is really no way around good customer education about the security issues to prevent the scams.
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10-18-2009, 12:25 AM #20THE Web Hosting Master
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PayPal currently has the tools needed to completely eliminate account phishing. They make these methods available for purchase, but do not advertise this fact, thus are failing on the education front as well. You can purchase the physical key generation devices, but I don't get why they don't just give them away, or at least have a system to verify one was used to make a payment, etc. I encourage EVERYONE with a PayPal account to spend the $5 for the key device to protect your accounts.
World of Warcraft does a better job promoting these devices and that is for a GAME!Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
VMware Virtual Data Center Platform
karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
Cloud Hosting, Managed Dedicated Servers, Chicago Colocation, and New Jersey Colocation
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10-18-2009, 12:31 AM #21******* Unleaded
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For those that care, paypal now has two hardware dependent ways of authentication. One is the hardware fob, and the second is one time pin's sent to your SMS device.
The next step would be for the postback information to include the method of authentication so that the vendor would refuse anything that is not authenticated using these methods. Howver, that is unlikely to happen because the vendor would have to refuse too many sales to make this workable, it would inconvenience cutomers too much, and it would be a support nightmare.
But, at least you are free to protect your own account this way.
In any case, contesting chargebacks with third party payment processeors like 2CO is a complete waste of time. It seems to be more of an additional revenue stream to them than a service to help their clients.Last edited by plumsauce; 10-18-2009 at 12:34 AM.
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10-18-2009, 03:31 AM #22Junior Guru Wannabe
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10-18-2009, 03:43 AM #23Junior Guru
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10-18-2009, 04:27 AM #24Junior Guru Wannabe
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That's right, for the reasons mentioned they don't advertise it and you really need to search hard to find any info about this.
Even their help and security guides don't mention these keys on the main pages and you have to search for it (which is a bit hard without knowing they have any).
BTW these are OTP keys, not SmartCard based devices which are more secure, but a bit more complicated to use.
Last edited by lprise; 10-18-2009 at 04:35 AM.
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10-18-2009, 08:55 AM #25Email Expert
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https://www.paypal.com/pt/cgi-bin/we...r-security-key
https://www.paypal.com/pt/cgi-bin/we.../PPSecurityKey
That, security keys.
However it says it is unavailable right now when I try to order it.
P.S: Its free to business accounts.
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