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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    I can understand removing software that is owned by The Planet ...
    I agree - removing propriety software is one thing but I doubt they can tell for sure which changes they've made to the server and which could have been made by someone else.

    Trying to remove security tweaks does seem like a pointless excersize in annoying what could be potential future customers. I'm guessing they'll rethink this policy.
    SysAdminMan - Asterisk PBX hosting - FreePBX, A2Billing and Elastix

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by -Jab- View Post
    That is foolish and also not true, otherwise you"ll see all kind of bad reviews all over the internet about this problem. I have went with many server management companies and they never removed anything they done for me firewall,tweaking, or any other thing that was requested by me. Your claim is hard to believe because they are a top respected company and i really doubt they will go in and take away all the stuff they did just because you canceled. May you please provide valid proof to a mod/admin or even to us just to verify?
    I can assure you, thats the way Touchsupport worked as well.

    We had once a service with them for 1 month. They changed allot of things, even put their own kernel. That server had Plesk that time, some years ago, and it just broke databases. You could not safe reboot the sever anymore without crashing the control panel, as they changed as well the mysql databases.

    We cancelled the service as they did not wanted to admit the problem started after they changed the config on the server. We changed root pass, and they also logged in, and removed all changes. We did not care, as that solved the problem. Voila!!! They left the server exactly like it was before, working! So I thank them for removing the changes.

    So yes ! They do undo changes. I suppose its part of the service. You cancel and they remove all services or customization they did. If not, people would hire then for 1 month and cancel. I suppose thats what happen with the OP starter. They probably installed the firewall and it was part of the service.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    I've been with Touchsupport as well, for about 9 months. They did not reverse the changes after I left.

    If the reversal of changes is for clients leaving earlier than 9 months, that's still not a good practice.

    I've been with several management companies, none of them reversed any change after I left.
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  4. #29
    Well I don´t remember how it was. But they said to cancel the service and they would reverse all changes and I said, yes please.

    Most don´t reverse changes but im not sure how The Planet works with managed services, just had servers there, but never managed services.

  5. #30
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    Jul 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by larwilliams View Post
    It's funny how all the kiddie hosts are jumping on the ThePlanet. Such a thing is quite common, as I stated before. If you signup for a security package and then cancel, they remove the changes they made. It's considered a service. It may not be right, but that is what you agree to when you signup with these companies. If you do a search here, you will find complaints towards other companies who have done the same thing. Just because you have never heard of it, doesn't mean I'm wrong.
    Kiddie hosts?? I have to say you're not that big yourself. Just a high post count doesn't mean you're superior in any way, shape or form.

    ThePlanet has no right to just go busting in especially when the server is offsite to begin with. It's not their equipment, the account was canceled, thus it should of been the end of it. There should of been no after cancellation work done. It's wrong. No company I've been with did this, not PSM not Webby Cart.
    Nothing here right now.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    UK
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    3,590
    Quote Originally Posted by PYDOT View Post
    I suppose thats what happen with the OP starter. They probably installed the firewall and it was part of the service.
    HI

    We had this server long before The Planet Alpha services existed with Configserv, I installed it myself!



    Quote Originally Posted by PYDOT View Post
    Well I don´t remember how it was. But they said to cancel the service and they would reverse all changes and I said, yes please.

    Most don´t reverse changes but im not sure how The Planet works with managed services, just had servers there, but never managed services.
    If the planet asked if they wanted us to remove it I would of said no, at least your previous providers asked you



    Quote Originally Posted by Stroh View Post
    Kiddie hosts?? I have to say you're not that big yourself. Just a high post count doesn't mean you're superior in any way, shape or form.
    Ahh Don't let him bother u its usually kiddy hosts who say things like that to make themselves feel good and to get another post count

    Is it me or has his post been removed??

  7. #32
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    193
    Seems like there are a few key points to address, so I'll break it out a bit ... Sorry if it feels a bit disjointed, but I just want to make sure I touch on everything.

    -Service Cancellation
    The service cancellation was requested on July 9, and our techs confirmed that we would cancel our service prior to the next billing date (August 1). In the ticket, we updated that we would start the cancellation process on July 30, giving full service protection for the period paid for by the customer for the month of July.

    -SSH Keys
    Our advanced services team uses SSH Keys to safely and securely access customer servers to provide updates, perform administration tasks and monitor the system. These keys are live while the server is protected by advanced services and are completely removed from our system when service is effectively canceled.

    -Software Removal
    During the service cancellation process, a technician will remove the installed security/monitoring tools that were provided to customers upon the provisioning of their services. This practice applies to servers hosted in-house and legacy services on servers in other data centers. The goal: remove the proprietary software and scripts installed by our service and restore the server to it's original state (security/configuration-wise).

    With regard to issues of security in particular, there's never a point where you are done securing your server. We offer security as an ongoing service because it involves regular updates and tweaks to guarantee the best protection against threats ... so an active process rather than a series of one-time security updates.

    To leave scripts and software our team installed on the server after cancellation would only really provide the illusion of security, as appropriate updates and changes will not be made in the same manner they would be with the support and service key to the security offering.

    -CSF
    The removal of CSF configurations is part of the automated cancellation process since the security service provisioning process updates those configurations. If CSF was installed prior to ordering security services, the cancellation of those services should revert the configuration changes to their original state rather than uninstalling them.

    If CSF is being uninstalled regardless of its presence prior to service provisioning, it is being done in error ... our development team is investigating and updating the script to reflect this appropriately. Additionally, if any other third-party or open source tools are installed and are running on the system, our deprovisioning system should not impede on their continued function.

    Our system installed CSF (according to our records), so the cancellation process removed what we installed, but that may need to be rethought a bit, given the nature of that tool ... the last post suggests that it was user-installed, so we may need to check on the specifics of that as well.

    I'm glad to hear that backups of the CSF configurations are available, so once our tech reinstalled CSF, I hope it was easy to get those configurations appropriately reflected on the system.
    Last edited by KHazard; 07-31-2009 at 12:17 PM.
    Kevin Hazard
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  8. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    UK
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    Quote Originally Posted by KHazard View Post

    -Service Cancellation
    The service cancellation was requested on July 9, and our techs confirmed that we would cancel our service prior to the next billing date (August 1). In the ticket, we updated that we would start the cancellation process on July 30, giving full service protection for the period paid for by the customer for the month of July.
    I also had my cpanel license with you, this had already been terminated and before 1st august, luckily we signed up with buycpanel.com who do us special rates on cpanel licenses so this was untrue statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by KHazard View Post
    -SSH Keys
    Our advanced services team uses SSH Keys to safely and securely access customer servers to provide updates, perform administration tasks and monitor the system. These keys are live while the server is protected by advanced services and are completely removed from our system when service is effectively canceled.
    The SSH keys still existed, we removed them so no more damage could be caused by the planet.

    if you remove everything I paid for, would you refund me? I have paid for a service not a rental that is to be returned.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberHostPro View Post
    I also had my cpanel license with you, this had already been terminated and before 1st august, luckily we signed up with buycpanel.com who do us special rates on cpanel licenses so this was untrue statement.

    "We updated that we would start the cancellation process on July 30." The ticket was updated internally at 10:47am CDT on July 30 to note that the cPanel license was removed.

    The SSH keys still existed, we removed them so no more damage could be caused by the planet.
    "... are completely removed from our system when service is effectively canceled." The SSH keys remain on the server until the service is completely canceled. We remove the key from a given server when the cancellation is complete and confirmed by the customer. Removal of the SSH keys is the last step in the process, and it is executed when everything else is done. Because you weren't satisfied with the way the service was canceled, the keys remained while we continued working with you ... which is how we were able to reinstall CSF for you.

    if you remove everything I paid for, would you refund me? I have paid for a service not a rental that is to be returned.
    You are absolutely right: you paid for a service. This service is intangible and includes the active maintenance of both proprietary and third-party tools on your server. As I mentioned, the service is not a series of one-time updates to your server's security configuration ... all updates and changes are part of an ongoing effort to keep your server secure. The tools removed were the means of providing the security service you ordered ... they should not be considered the security itself.
    Kevin Hazard
    Director, Digital Content
    SoftLayer, an IBM Companyhttp://twitter.com/softlayer

  10. #35
    This isn't good, they shouldn't have done that.

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    St. John's, NL
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    As I have said before (and Kevin confirmed), this is how it works and is quite common.
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  12. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Everywhere
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    Quote Originally Posted by KHazard View Post
    You are absolutely right: you paid for a service. This service is intangible and includes the active maintenance of both proprietary and third-party tools on your server. As I mentioned, the service is not a series of one-time updates to your server's security configuration ... all updates and changes are part of an ongoing effort to keep your server secure. The tools removed were the means of providing the security service you ordered ... they should not be considered the security itself.
    This has nothing to do with uninstalling the firewall/open source tools/vendor updates/etc. Something is better than nothing! especially if he PAID for it and you have admitted it. Sorry, doesn't make sense at all.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    57
    This is shocking. I know there are all sorts of unsavoury practices that go with hosting but this takes the biscuit.

    The guy pays for a service and when he leaves the so called admin hacks into his server and rips it apart?? Wow!

    Remind me never to go near these guys ever. Never trusted any of the server management people anyway and this really confirms my distrust.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    4,028
    I'm slightly confused now.

    Was CSF the only 3rd party / open source script they removed? If so, that sounds like it was done in error and will be rethought.

    The OP made it sound like the "security removal" was much more then The Planet removing proprietary software...

  15. #40
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sys Admin View Post
    This has nothing to do with uninstalling the firewall/open source tools/vendor updates/etc. Something is better than nothing! especially if he PAID for it and you have admitted it. Sorry, doesn't make sense at all.
    I don't understand what you're trying to say here. The services provided are administered with tools and resources ... When the services are no longer requested, the tools and resources (being agents of maintenance for the service) are removed. A customer pays for the active administration of the service, not the tools used in that administration.

    As a representative of a company that provides the option to pay for a one-time server hardening service, you are likely to have a fundamental disagreement with that position, and I can respect that. If a customer were interested in that kind of setup on one of our servers, it would be approached as one-time server administration work rather than a recurring service.

    By approaching it in this way, if a customer just wanted the tools, one of our system administrators can install tools, tweak the security setting and hand over the keys for the customer to manage and update personally (and nothing would ever be deprovisioned), but that's a different kind of product than the managed security service we're talking about here.

    To my knowledge, vendor updates are not rolled back, and the primary cause of concern in the thread is the removal of a single third-party, open source firewall tool that our system shows we installed ... not the multiple resources/configurations implied. If I've misread that or am off-base, I apologize.
    Last edited by KHazard; 07-31-2009 at 03:31 PM.
    Kevin Hazard
    Director, Digital Content
    SoftLayer, an IBM Companyhttp://twitter.com/softlayer

  16. #41
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    Feb 2004
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    Fort Worth, TX
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    KHazard will ThePlanet be willing to compensate the OP since he claims to have paid another company to install CSF and ThePlanet techs reverted any of the work he paid for?

    I understand your tech's removed CSF to it's default, but it was worked on before your services were installed. Instead of putting CSF back to the default state, your tech's should of put it back to the state of where it was before they installed anything else. That in my book, requires compensation if the OP can prove he did pay for services. Also would of been nice for the OP to run backups before the services were started.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkFloydWS View Post
    KHazard will ThePlanet be willing to compensate the OP since he claims to have paid another company to install CSF and ThePlanet techs reverted any of the work he paid for?

    I understand your tech's removed CSF to it's default, but it was worked on before your services were installed. Instead of putting CSF back to the default state, your tech's should of put it back to the state of where it was before they installed anything else. That in my book, requires compensation if the OP can prove he did pay for services. Also would of been nice for the OP to run backups before the services were started.
    That's where things are a bit hazy... According to our records, CSF was originally installed on the server as a part of our security package, and after the cancellation was processed and the customer requested it, we reinstalled it. According to one of the first post in the thread, R1Soft CDP was running on the server, so it appears that the configuration changes are a non-issue as the OP reports that he restored the from a backup.
    Kevin Hazard
    Director, Digital Content
    SoftLayer, an IBM Companyhttp://twitter.com/softlayer

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    UK
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    3,590
    Hi

    I installed Configserv well before Theplanet or touchsupport had contracts with me, ThePlanet had uninstalled it. Also you guys did not reinstall it for me after my complaint, again I reinstalled it myself then restored the backup config myself.

    I do want my management fee's refunded for the problems you could of caused me if I did not see you had uninstalled CSF/

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Portugal
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    188
    I know cyberhostpro but i have never used planet.

    It is shocking to see such a procedure from PlanetAS.

    Why are they reducing the level of security of the server without informing the client and without client consent ?.

    If the client was diving in a parachute and the contract is over will you take the parachute from him because you have to make changes in the parachute ?

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Denver, CO
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    Shudder to think what would happen if TPAS management was canceled a completely fresh server. Apparently they would remove everything and return the server to it's default configuration ...

    Seems to me that a line has been drawn here that is beyond what is reasonable. By all means, remove the tools that allow you to control the different bits of open-source stuff you are using. Remove any software that is licensed by TP. But goodness, removing CSF and and firewall rules seems to be way above and beyond. That's potentially opening a huge security hole. It's a pretty dirt bag kind of move.
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  21. #46
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    Hi

    Firstly, thanks to all who have input on this I really appreciate the time reading through this.

    Seems my access to the planets orbit has been removed. Would anyone know if this would be a valid reason to chargeback all my payments to the planet as technically I paid for a security threat!

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberHostPro View Post
    Hi

    Firstly, thanks to all who have input on this I really appreciate the time reading through this.

    Seems my access to the planets orbit has been removed. Would anyone know if this would be a valid reason to chargeback all my payments to the planet as technically I paid for a security threat!
    No, as you paid for a service that was rendered. You would be committing fraud by doing so.

    Whether or not other hosts agree with their policies, I am sure they are stated in whatever contract you agreed to when signing up.

    Given that, they could fight the chargeback and (deservedly) win.
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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberHostPro View Post
    Hi

    Firstly, thanks to all who have input on this I really appreciate the time reading through this.

    Seems my access to the planets orbit has been removed. Would anyone know if this would be a valid reason to chargeback all my payments to the planet as technically I paid for a security threat!
    While you can charge-back and will likely win, you should not. I have not read their policies but I am sure there will be something in there which explicitly states requirements for them to remove their software on cancellation. I don't believe they did not provide you service for the entire term, you simply disagree with their policies on cancellation.

    For the actual removal I have to say it's plain ridiculous, removing the firewall from the system?

    Regardless of how it is put on here about "on-going" or whatever other nonsense is said, it is simply unacceptable. It is something a spiteful child would do and is ultimately lowering the security of the system, completely unnecessarily.

    Further I also fail to see how CSF would be TPAS's proprietary software giving them permission to remove it.

  24. #49
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    Aug 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott.Mc View Post
    Further I also fail to see how CSF would be TPAS's proprietary software giving them permission to remove it.
    That was my point as well. While I'm all for removing YOUR software, the client does sound like they got screwed without a kiss.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    31
    I just left the planet due to their prices and their support.

    I now have 1 server at softlayer, and 1 at FDC

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