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  1. #26
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    let me highlight something

    Quote Originally Posted by Dougy View Post
    The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) is a United States copyright law .

    aren't hostfresh based in Hong Kong? Hong Kong belongs to China, and the Chinese are well known for ignoring American IP laws ( http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/12...cts_micro_oft/ )

    now unless uncle Sam is planning on invading yet another country...

    tho they may not be bound by DMCA they more than likely should/would respond to a well formated email/letter as no one likes their business name smudged
    Last edited by dfh_ie; 11-21-2007 at 04:20 AM.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihd View Post
    let me highlight something




    aren't hostfresh based in Hong Kong? Hong Kong belongs to China, and the Chinese are well known for ignoring American IP laws ( http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/12...cts_micro_oft/ )

    now unless uncle Sam is planning on invading yet another country...

    tho they may not be bound by DMCA they more than likely should/would respond to a well formated email/letter as no one likes their business name smudged
    If they're based in Hong Kong, suing them may not work as well due to a different set of laws.

  3. #28
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    Yes. People are right. Hostfresh follows HK rules and they are going as per HK local laws. You can complain against the sites only if the site host the files, child porn, spam etc. Thats y most warez sites are in HK.

    Wonder when HK rules are changing

  4. #29
    We're based in HK, however we're more than willing to help out the poster, there's no reason for us not to take that down.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by HostFresh View Post
    We're based in HK, however we're more than willing to help out the poster, there's no reason for us not to take that down.
    Bill,
    I found this forum , in a google search for "Hostfresh illegal" of all things, attempting to locate more information regarding your hosting operation. We have a number of issues we wish to address with you, however, you have made it virtually impossible for anyone to contact your operations. All of your support emails (including abuse@hostfresh.com) bounce. We have left a number of messages at 1-888-83FRESH to which nobody ever answers let alone return. We have also been in contact with your upstream transit provider, Intercage.com.

    You are hosting a few websites we'd like to speak with you about, the main one being pornbb.org. We represent some of the largest producers of online adult content on the internet with clients such as nastydollars.com, brazzers.com and bangbros.com. I highly recommend you contact me via email or by phone as as soon as possible. Thank you.

    webmaster@removeyourcontent.com

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MziB View Post
    DMCA doesnt work I sent bunch of them
    Did you MAIL it to them, or send an email?


    Quote Originally Posted by LTADMIN View Post
    Send the abuse complaints to their data center and upstream bandwidth provider(s) before you spend the money on lawyers.
    I've personally tried that. But apparently ISPs in India and Brazil don't really care what their customers are doing.
    Dating Revolution Method - Book on how to meet and attract women

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by ewhost View Post
    Did you MAIL it to them, or send an email?
    I've personally tried that. But apparently ISPs in India and Brazil don't really care what their customers are doing.
    We've actually done this for Intercage. Here are the results:

    abuse@intercage.com bounces
    Domains by proxy of course.

    First certified mail Dmcas to address:
    Returned to sender - moved left no address

    We then called them and they gave us another address:
    Second certified mail Dmcas to secondary address.
    Unclaimed, returned to sender

    These are two very shady operations, both intercage.com and hostfresh.com. I'd venture to say they are both very aware of the illegal activity (direct piracy and contributory infringement) taking place on their network and are turning a blind eye to it.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryc_eric View Post
    We've actually done this for Intercage. Here are the results:

    abuse@intercage.com bounces
    Domains by proxy of course.

    First certified mail Dmcas to address:
    Returned to sender - moved left no address

    We then called them and they gave us another address:
    Second certified mail Dmcas to secondary address.
    Unclaimed, returned to sender

    These are two very shady operations, both intercage.com and hostfresh.com. I'd venture to say they are both very aware of the illegal activity (direct piracy and contributory infringement) taking place on their network and are turning a blind eye to it.
    Are you technically allowed to do this? If it isn't illegal in Hong Kong then you can legally be sued for repeated harassment, just thought I'd point that out


    Anyways PornBB doesn't host the content themselves, you should probably bring it up with RapidShare regarding the files as RS and Megaupload are the ones hosting the content
    Crissic Solutions, LLC - Affordable VPS Solutions.
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  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by CrissicSolutions View Post
    Anyways PornBB doesn't host the content themselves, you should probably bring it up with RapidShare regarding the files as RS and Megaupload are the ones hosting the content
    I agree with this assessment. Even though it can be as or even more effective to close down the portal sites, however this must be supported in the local lawtext. If it is not, aka if it is legal to link to illegal material (which it is in some countries) the company/individual making the complaint is fresh out of luck.

    You can see the most famous example here; The Pirate Bay and how the Swedish law is written (and interpreted).

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by CrissicSolutions View Post
    Are you technically allowed to do this? If it isn't illegal in Hong Kong then you can legally be sued for repeated harassment, just thought I'd point that out
    Yes and thanks for your "point".

    Quote Originally Posted by CrissicSolutions View Post
    Anyways PornBB doesn't host the content themselves, you should probably bring it up with RapidShare regarding the files as RS and Megaupload are the ones hosting the content
    chillingeffects.org/dmca512/question.cgi?QuestionID=268

    They would fall under the contributory infringement clause. Additionally, we do get get the illegal media files removed from Rapidshare/Megaupload as well.

  11. #36
    Because they do not host the content, they only provide it, there is little what you can do.

    Have fun sueing RapidShare & MegaUpload.

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by ryc_eric View Post
    They would fall under the contributory infringement clause. Additionally, we do get get the illegal media files removed from Rapidshare/Megaupload as well.
    This would only apply to hosts located within the United States. You can't transcribe US law globally.

    But don't think I do not agree with you - I do. I hope that you'll be able to sort out your tasks asap.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by JelloX View Post
    Because they do not host the content, they only provide it, there is little what you can do.

    Have fun sueing RapidShare & MegaUpload.
    Thanks and trust me, I won't be handling any litigation in relation to free file hosts. My clients have much deeper pockets than I do. Rapidshare and the likes have been very cooperative actually. It's the middle-man and posters that are going to start seeing the pinch.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryc_eric View Post
    Thanks and trust me, I won't be handling any litigation in relation to free file hosts. My clients have much deeper pockets than I do. Rapidshare and the likes have been very cooperative actually. It's the middle-man and posters that are going to start seeing the pinch.
    Doesn't shock me. Its taken a while but the industry is finally catching up.

    Your best bet would be to shut down the big contributors first, katz, and the other major DDL sites
    Crissic Solutions, LLC - Affordable VPS Solutions.
    Our business is based on Honesty & Transparency!

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by CrissicSolutions View Post
    Doesn't shock me. Its taken a while but the industry is finally catching up.
    I'm afraid that the industry (it being adult films, regular screenings or music) will never catch up. The cat is out of the bag... and have been so for a very long time.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Henrik View Post
    This would only apply to hosts located within the United States. You can't transcribe US law globally.
    Agreed. When I spoke to Intercage, they did offer up IP addresses of posters. I'm not sure how that would work or if that's even something they would be able to technically supply or something we could use. Then again, we fall into that grey-area of copyright law where the posters are only posting infringing links. The problem is that there is no real case law in the US regarding this issue. Rumors in the adult industry is that's going to change very soon though.. along the lines of the RIAA/MPAA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrik View Post
    But don't think I do not agree with you - I do. I hope that you'll be able to sort out your tasks asap.
    Appreciate the info folks.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by ryc_eric View Post
    The problem is that there is no real case law in the US regarding this issue. Rumors in the adult industry is that's going to change very soon though.. along the lines of the RIAA/MPAA.
    The case against The Pirate Bay in Sweden is based on "assisting copyright infringement". However our legal system is a little bit different as there must be a clear intent, not only hosting meta-links like The Pirate Bay does.

    Regarding RIAA/MPAA, US law does not apply internationally, but if you want to go after someone in another country, you'd have to use a legal agent located there and file in the local courts.

    In the case of Sweden, you'd have to start at the bottom of the scale and would not likely be able to get a verdict in form of fines that would be very heavy at all.

    How it works in other countries is of your interest is something you need to research on case to case basis. (Even if most hosts would read and act upon a takedown notice)


    EDIT: What you wrote about Intercage offering the IP-addresses of individual users is interesting, as in many places this would be in direct violation of the law regarding electronical communications).
    Last edited by Henrik; 03-02-2008 at 02:33 PM. Reason: added something I overlooked

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Henrik View Post
    The case against The Pirate Bay in Sweden is based on "assisting copyright infringement". However our legal system is a little bit different as there must be a clear intent, not only hosting meta-links like The Pirate Bay does.

    Regarding RIAA/MPAA, US law does not apply internationally, but if you want to go after someone in another country, you'd have to use a legal agent located there and file in the local courts.

    In the case of Sweden, you'd have to start at the bottom of the scale and would not likely be able to get a verdict in form of fines that would be very heavy at all.
    I understand what you are saying. From my point of view, it wouldn't be of any real deterrence going after the foreign hosts (from a US enforcement perspective). Going after the domestic posters and US-based outfits assisting in infringement and ignoring DMCAs would be of some advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrik View Post
    How it works in other countries is of your interest is something you need to research on case to case basis. (Even if most hosts would read and act upon a takedown notice)

    EDIT: What you wrote about Intercage offering the IP-addresses of individual users is interesting, as in many places this would be in direct violation of the law regarding electronical communications).
    I am sure they would require a court order which we would get if needed.

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by ryc_eric View Post
    I understand what you are saying. From my point of view, it wouldn't be of any real deterrence going after the foreign hosts (from a US enforcement perspective). Going after the domestic posters and US-based outfits assisting in infringement and ignoring DMCAs would be of some advantage.
    Yes, that would be the path of least resistance for you.


    I am sure they would require a court order which we would get if needed.
    That depends on where you want to extract this information. Here, it takes an offense that gives more than 2 years in jail, and it was proven in courtcases that sharing copyright protected material illegally is not such an offense.

  20. #45
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    as a note, if we are really talking about atrivo/intercage - their IP ranges are blackholed/blacklisted from probably half the world.

    spam, childporn, exploits, warez, rbn crap.

    esthost runs off there, and it's practically "bulletproof" US-based hosting.
    semi-retired

  21. #46
    @Procyon Are these things on this ISP because they don't care or because they can't keep order on their network?

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henrik View Post
    @Procyon Are these things on this ISP because they don't care or because they can't keep order on their network?
    http://blogs.zdnet.com/Spyware/?p=763

    Atrivo/Intercage do have *some* legitimate customers, and they can be very vocal. But the sheer quantity of abuse in their netblock, from exploits to fraud to KP to spam of all forms, outweighs the legit material by a mile IMO.

    And it’s no accident: they are unresponsive to complaints, and have admitted they won’t can Esthost - their biggest customer, CWS epicentre and #1 blackhat host in the world - despite being aware of the immense abuse they are responsible for.


    The other block listed by SANS, ‘Inhoster’, appears to be the same company as Esthost - as are Critical Internet, Estdomains and Web-Namez. This netblock used also to be Atrivo’s; it’s not clear to me whether that block is operated by Esthost themselves or by Atrivo for Esthost.


    Blocking single domain names is barely feasible any more: there are thousands to block and more new ones all the time. I consider blocking entire netblocks operated by Esthost and Atrivo a very reasonable and measured move.

    And, in fact, that up to half of Atrivo’s income is dependent on criminal activities, and that Atrivo knowingly (if passively) permits that criminal activity to continue.



    also, http://www.intercage.com/site/xcart/home.php - wtf is this
    Last edited by IPv6; 03-02-2008 at 03:25 PM.
    semi-retired

  23. #48
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    People are saying they're Hong Kong based, but that doesn't really matter if they're operating in the US, and they do have a US phone number, US mailing address, their own web site is hosted in the US, etc.

    I would mail a DMCA to:

    HostFresh, Inc
    1001 Brussels St
    San Francisco, CA, 94134

    Then see what happens. That would also be the address to serve other legal documents to I'd imagine. With them also claiming to be HostFresh, Inc. that seems to indicate they have a US corporation, so feel free to sue the heck out of them. From what I can tell, the company is US based, as long as that is the case I don't believe it really matters where the data is.
    Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
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    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
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  24. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
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    whitepages says this

    Jafe Meltesen Lee
    home
    1001 Brussels St
    San Francisco, CA 94134-2103
    (415) 656-1280
    =================
    Rong H & Denise Jeong
    home
    1001 Brussels St
    San Francisco, CA 94134-2103
    (415) 468-5115
    semi-retired

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Procyon View Post
    whitepages says this

    Jafe Meltesen Lee
    home
    1001 Brussels St
    San Francisco, CA 94134-2103
    (415) 656-1280
    =================
    Rong H & Denise Jeong
    home
    1001 Brussels St
    San Francisco, CA 94134-2103
    (415) 468-5115
    I think they are Chinese Surnames. Probably just relatives I'm assuming.

    I reckon HostFresh will not do anything in regards to this guys DMCA claims.... I can imagine this guy trying to threaten some dude in like Vietnam with a DMCA order and the guy in Vietnam just reads it and laughs. lol.

    They've probably already got an email filter to delete emails with the word DMCA in it. If I can predict, HostFresh will do nothing and continue to ignore this guy's persistence. I think it was intential for that porn site mentioned to be hosted in Hong Kong.

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