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02-13-2008, 12:39 AM #1Newbie
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Ecatel complaint [SPLIT from ad thread]
We've dealt with several server companies, FDC, Leaseweb, MyDediServer, OVH, Staminus and they were all very honest. However, we now have dealt with Ecatel, and that has changed.
We cancelled our server on January 9th. Here is their e-mail confirming our cancellation:
Hello,
Thank you for your e-mail, I have added your cancelation to our schedule.
Besides that I don’t understand the reason, u can reboot by yourself andsupport is handled per e-mail. Also we never received complaints about connection, if we did we wouldsolved them. There is a 24/7 noc team in here (noc@ecatel.net).
Best regards,ECATEL (NETHERLANDS) LIMITED.
They did not cancel us, but took a payment on January 11th and also February 11th. When we realized what they were doing, we contacted them ONE HOUR after the 2nd payment was taken by them. Here is their reply.
Dear Mr. *****,
U e-mail us about cancelation of services but u are paying us for the server we offer. We are not taking any money from u, otherwise we wouldn’t sent u an invoice + reminders for overdue payments. The money is sent by yourself (or your account). We cannot refund to clients for services we deliver(ed).
We were willing to admit the first payment was our fault, since the timing was close to our renewal. But not refunding the 2nd payment, one hour after it was taken, just borders on fraud.
Avoid Ecatel .. stick to the honest ones.0
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02-13-2008, 06:43 AM #2Web Hosting Evangelist
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Dear shoutcaststreaming,
U paid us with paypal, it is impossible to 'take' a payment from our clients. Otherwise we wouldnt have sent u an invoice + overdue reminders for the invoice. U have sent us your payment serveral times (5 months). It is more then logical we dont refund for our services because the server was/is still active. If u wish to cancel services u should stop your subscription and we will stop services.
There is no case of fraud in here, paypal also decided we are in our right.
I also want to let u know your one hour is not true, ive asked administration the times. Once i got them today i will publish them on the forum.
best regards0
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02-13-2008, 06:56 AM #3Web Hosting Evangelist
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Here we are again,
invoice sent : 08-02-08 02:46(CET)
paydate : 11-02-08 11:36 (CET)
received e-mail from u regarding payment: Tue 12/02/2008 02:59
Also u did forget u claimed two months at paypal, and here u are only talking about one month chargeback.
We have multiple clients who tell us per e-mail, please cancel my box but stay with us. They pay the bill and they stay. We dont fetch the money from the client, they can only sent it. If they dont wish to stay with us they just dont pay and we shutdown the box one day after duedate. Because of this we are able to deliver all our services on monthly base.
I want to let u know this is no discussion topic but our offer topic, if anyone wishes to have any more information. Please feel free to contact us at info@ecatel.net0
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02-13-2008, 12:17 PM #4Newbie
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- Mar 2007
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First of all, you never addresses the main point.
We e-mailed you to cancel our server and you agreed to do that. You did not cancel the server as you said you would.
We have not used that server in over one month, since we believed you were honest and would cancel the server, per your e-mail.
This wasn't a cheap server, but a dedicated bandwidth 25mbit server costing 175 euros a month. We have thousands of internet radio stations that we host and servers all around the world. The quality of your bandwidth, and the number of times you had router / network problem was unacceptable. We have PingPlotter reports that document that.
In our business we treat all customers with respect and when there are complaints, we solve them. If your attitude is to keep $530.00 because you feel you don't have to provide any kind of reliable support or stick to your word, then that is your the way you conduct your business.
Just wanted to warn off potential customers to beware of their unscrupulous business practices.0
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02-13-2008, 12:24 PM #5Web Hosting Evangelist
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If u e-mail to cancel and u pay then u cancel your cancelation, otherwise u dont pay us. If u didnt wanted to use the box, why the hell u paid it? If u e-mailed our noc about your (possible) problems, we had helped u. Like we do with ALL our other clients if they have ANY problem. If we had complaints we solved them.
I wish u good luck with your other provider.0
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02-13-2008, 12:41 PM #6
Complaint split from ad thread
Your one stop shop for decentralization
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02-13-2008, 01:03 PM #7Newbie
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We were paying on an month to month invoice basis. Then one day you gave us a link to click and it put us on a subscription basis. You tricked us into starting a subscription. We didn't know the money was taken out automatically by you. .
Originally Posted by Ecatel
The bottom line is that you said you would cancel the server (per your e-mail) and you didn't.
The way you treat your customers will catch up to you in the end.
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02-13-2008, 01:09 PM #8Web Hosting Evangelist
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Hello, thanks for response. Paypal analyzed the dispute you opened. They decided we are in our right. I have no further comments on your messages.
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02-13-2008, 01:15 PM #9Junior Guru
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Sorry, I know this is slightly off-topic but...
@Ecatel
Sorry to nitpick, but in English conversations, please use you and not u to refer to the other party. Using just u might be correct in formal Dutch (and "l33t sp34k" English) but not in professional English.
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As for the problem described, I suppose payments are being made by PayPal subscription. If in this case the customer is required to actively cancel it, I suppose Ecatel should have clearly stated this when the sent the cancellation confirmation.
Btw, you can cancel subscriptions by logging into your PayPal account, view the details of one of the payments in question and look for a (clickable) reference number near the top. This'll bring you to a page where (if I'm right) you can cancel the subscription..0
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02-13-2008, 01:16 PM #10Junior Guru Wannabe
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- Apr 2005
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It would seem therein lies the critical piece of information.
Whilst I can't comment on how sneaky it was for elcatel to give you the link to change to subscription based payment (without seeing its context..) at the end of the day *you* clicked the link.
It's common sense these days not to click any link until you're sure of what it does, even if it does come from your provider.
Of course if Elcatel gave you a link claiming it was one thing and the result of clicking it was another....
Kev0
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02-13-2008, 01:19 PM #11Web Hosting Evangelist
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Our invoices display two images for paypal.
1) pay now with paypal
2) subscribe with paypal
Our clients can confirm this.
We just handle our policy we handle with all clients, we told our story to paypal and mr shoutcaststreaming did the same. Paypal decided we are in our right.0
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02-13-2008, 02:33 PM #12Junior Guru Wannabe
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02-14-2008, 05:00 AM #13Disabled
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Also off topic, I had to come of my couch to nitpick back a little.
Please dont pick on somebody's English. Thats not done, especially not when you yourself make typing errors in your off-topic contribution to the topic. (when the..... sent the cancellation). :-)
Warm regards,
An Englishman in Amsterdam0
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02-14-2008, 07:19 AM #14Junior Guru
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02-14-2008, 02:05 PM #15Disabled
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Dear GHDpro,
No hard feelings old chap: to should be too, secondly I dont think Ecatel was waiting for your ''notification'', and thirdly you're saying your English is not perfect either, meaning/referring the either to whom ......?
Never mind, lets say it was your opening to the topic.
Get back to my couch as quickly as I possibly can and go for my daily nap.
Warm regards from Amsterdam,
An Englishman in..........0
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02-14-2008, 04:14 PM #16Disabled
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02-14-2008, 05:30 PM #17Junior Guru Wannabe
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I'm a bit confused. The customer told the provider in the email to cancel the server. The provider acknowledges his wishes to cancel yet when the paypal payments come in the provider doesn't think twice about taking money for a canceled server?
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02-14-2008, 06:43 PM #18Web Hosting Master
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The provider said some customers ask to cancel and then change mind and keep paying and using the service without notification. As the customer didn't cancel the PayPal subscription the provider was automatically paid and then kept the service available.
PayPal Subscriptions and Recurring Payments let you accept recurring payments for your service. Subscribers are billed automatically according to the terms you specify, removing the hassle of keeping track of which payments you have and have not received. This means that after the regular billing cycle that you previously entered is complete, your customers’ subscriptions will be automatically renewed unless a customer manually cancels his subscription. .0
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02-14-2008, 08:35 PM #19Disabled
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Please note this a topic about a user not liking Ecatel's services, not about how good our english is.
Not trying to backseat mod, though I think it's getting a bit off topic.0
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02-15-2008, 12:22 AM #20Newbie
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I'm a bit confused. The customer told the provider in the email to cancel the server. The provider acknowledges his wishes to cancel yet when the paypal payments come in the provider doesn't think twice about taking money for a canceled server?
Okay, I'm not saying my English is perfect either, but considering "u" was seemingly consistently misused for "you", I felt I should notify Ecatel about it. I apologize if my post seemed to patronizing though.
To future show Ecatel's non-caring attitude, our server went down before we cancelled. It was hosting hundreds of Internet Radio Stations. We were getting tons of e-mail from our customers complaining their radio streams were off the air. We tried 4 or 5 times to re-boot the server via their automatic re-boot process. We could not. We put in a support ticket. We also sent 3 e-mails in a 6 hour period.
We were down for 6 hours before they replied. We were down from 5 AM (Amsterdam time) until 11 AM (Amsterdam time). Here is their response:
hello,
u can reboot the server by yourself in our controlpanel. Please note u mailed our support in the middle of the night here, our supportdesk is less staffed during night hours. Is the server online now? or do we need to send an engineer to it to check?
ecaetl support
-- Ecatel support
-- info@ecatel.net
I consider 5 AM - 11 AM to be in the morning hours. Notice how Ecatel states that their support desk is less staffed during the night hours. How many people think 5AM - 11AM is during the night? Are they on North Pole time?0
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02-15-2008, 12:26 AM #21Web Hosting Evangelist
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hello,
for urgent cases you can contact our 24/7 network operation center noc@ecatel.net or EVEN CALL our network operation center http://noc.ecatel.net/
This information is also provided to you when the server was delivered.
Currently it is 5:25 here
EDIT: Ah i see why you didnt receive a quick response (which is true indeed). This because you did NOT e-mail us but used modernbill for contact, this system isnt used by us. All contact is handled by e-mail. Support & sales is only availible for urgent cases during the night. NOC is availible 24/7 for issues.Last edited by Novogara; 02-15-2008 at 12:34 AM.
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02-15-2008, 12:38 AM #22Newbie
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Now you are lying.
We went through NOC.
It's bad enough that you stole our money and your attitude and language are not stellar. But facts are facts and we have documentation of them.0
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02-15-2008, 12:41 AM #23Web Hosting Evangelist
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Lying? I will publish a screenshot on WHT.
Give me a few minutes. My english might be bad but we atleast reply to your messages.
There is no money stolen here, you opened a dispute at paypal and lost it. Are they a bad company now aswell?0
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02-15-2008, 12:54 AM #24Web Hosting Evangelist
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As promised,
http://files.ecatel.nl/modernbill.png
People who know how modernbill looks like see
this isn't e-mail.
As said, you opened a dispute at paypal and tried to claim two months back from us (one month which was already FULLY delivered) and the second month which was started (from my head) two days already. Paypal investigated your dispute and decided we handled honest and rightfully.
I will not waste my time any further on this (closed) issue.
Good luck with your new provider, we (really) wish u all the best.0
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02-15-2008, 02:20 AM #25Web Hosting Master
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I'm confused.
First you say the system is not used by your company and then you present a screenshot showing a support ticket created by the customer using the system "not used by your company" and ticket replies from your staff in the system "not used by your company".
Also you say during the night (in Amsterdam I suppose) the support is only available for urgent cases (is site down an urgent case?) even though you state NOC is available 24/7 for issues.Last edited by dotHostel; 02-15-2008 at 02:28 AM.
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