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06-27-2008, 12:38 AM #1Newbie
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Who are the best / fastest bandwidth providers?
Hey,
I have been reviewing a lot of different data-centers and networks, and everybody seems to use different bandwidth providers. Is there any consensus on who the best (Top 5 maybe?) carriers are? According to WikiPedia.org, there are currently only 9 "true" Tier-1 carriers:
AOL
AT&T
Cogent
Global Crossing
Level 3
Verizon Business
NTT Communications
Qwest
SAVVIS
Sprint
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06-27-2008, 01:41 AM #2WHT Addict
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Define: "Best"??
Best connected? Most customers? A billing dept that sends accurate invoices? Account managers with clue? BGP engineers who aren't surly?
"Tier-1" is a meaningless term. "Fastest" is also meaningless, unless one of them has the secret to moving light faster than the others.
I've bought bandwidth from six of the ten that you've listed at one time or another, and I've shopped three of the remaining four (unless you want to lump Time-Warner Telecom in with "AOL" through some long reach of business structure logic. Then add it to my "bought from" list.)
I'll tell you these things:
1. I'll only buy from AT&T again under duress, such as strong customer demand. Their network is great. Their billing, sales, and account management departments however should all be sacked. Their BGP-speaking engineers are good people. The suits and bureaucrats are not. Avoid unless unavoidable.
2. I've never bought from Cogent. I have seen their POPs however, and they scare me. Baling wire, chewing gum & BGP hold their network together, in that order.
3. GC: never dealt with them, beyond price quotes.
4. L3. Great network, good routes. Straightforward invoicing. Slow to get things done... VERY slow, but they get it done right when they do.
5. Verizon: A vast conglomerate of colossal failures. I've dealt with them as, Verizon, UUnet & Worldcom at various points over the years. UUnet/Alternet was awesome back in the early/mid 90s, but otherwise these guys are just a fine expression of ILEC mentality. Audit your invoices... closely. Better yet, just avoid them!
6. NTT. The best of this particular bunch to be honest. Network as good as L3s. The NOC staff are the best I've ever dealt with. BGP engineers are accessible and personable. Honest and accurate billing. Great sales team. I've been a happy customer of NTT since 2002.
7. Qwest: See "Verizon Business" above. Swallowing USWest was the dumbest thing these guys ever did. The parasite completely devoured the host. They Borged my favorite Ethernet carrier, OnFiber and completely ruined what was a great company. Oh well.
8. SAVVIS. Never dealt with them beyond price quotes.
9. Sprint: See "Verizon Business" above. Yet another ILEC/telco mind-set company. Too big to really be customer-focussed. Billing is a nightmare. Takes forever to get anything installed, even longer to get anything shut down!
Your Mileage May Vary. These are the opinions solely of the author and not my employer.--chuck goolsbee, Prineville, Oregon, USA
Please note: I no longer work for digital.forest in Seattle, WA, as I left them in early 2010 to pursue an amazing opportunity at an amazing datacenter project elsewhere... I do not speak for digital.forest here. However I still know they provide the best colocation in the Pacific Northwest.
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06-27-2008, 03:19 AM #3Doh!!
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I don't believe cogent is a tier1 as they have to buy traffic from verio, teir1 providers are settlement free.
Jay
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06-27-2008, 03:26 AM #4Web Hosting Guru
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It really depends on what you are going to be using the connection for. Level3 is really good. Tons of eyes connected. GC is also pretty good.
There are lots of Tier2 providers that are excellent out there. I would recommend checking them out before you make your final decision.
Other choices such as Mzima and Internap combine multiple Tier1 providers to give you the best of both worlds. Internap is definitely more expensive but they handle dealing with all the providers and the BGP. Here in Chicago Internap buys transit from eight providers: AT&T, Global Crossing, Level 3, NTT, Savvis, Sprint, Verizon Business (UUNet/MCI), and XO Communications as well as adding some local peering.
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06-27-2008, 08:18 AM #5Randy
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A mix of several carriers would be "better" than any one carrier. The "tough" ones to deal with (verizon, att, ect) should be bought through a reseller to help save the headache and pocket book.
Fast Serv Networks, LLC | AS29889 | DDOS Protected | Managed Cloud, Streaming, Dedicated Servers, Colo by-the-U
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06-27-2008, 08:42 AM #6Web Hosting Evangelist
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I'm not sure if people deal with Cogent often but their staff is knowledgeable and any BGP related issues is fixed at the same time, there's no such thing as L3 techs working on business days, etc. They always addressed any problems within minutes when dealing with them, usually I just give them a call from the datacenter and it's a done deal.
VEXXHOST, Inc.
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High Performance OpenStack® Public Cloud | Cloud Servers | Web Hosting
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06-27-2008, 04:04 PM #7Web Hosting Master
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I think the best would be a mix of all carriers!
Jordan Jacobs | VP, Products|SingleHop| JJ @SingleHop.com
Managed Dedicated Servers | Bare-Metal Servers | Cloud Services
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06-27-2008, 04:10 PM #8Web Hosting Master
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06-27-2008, 04:48 PM #9Web Hosting Master
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I have never been a fan of InterNAP, its very hard to get ANYTHING done.
Jordan Jacobs | VP, Products|SingleHop| JJ @SingleHop.com
Managed Dedicated Servers | Bare-Metal Servers | Cloud Services
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06-27-2008, 05:28 PM #10WHT Addict
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Depends on where the traffic is going, i would never select an american carrier for europe, only TeliaSonera. For Asia i would select NTT and for the rest just pick a random tier 1 carrier.
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06-27-2008, 06:03 PM #11Web Hosting Master
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According to this, they've just managed to do to so:
http://www.renesys.com/blog/2008/06/...nsitfree.shtml
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06-27-2008, 07:16 PM #12Randy
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Confirmed -
7 vl3492.mpd01.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.6.106) 15.548 ms 15.283 ms 15.099 ms
MPLS Label=1122 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=1
8 gi6-0-0.core01.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.6.86) 14.814 ms 14.821 ms 14.976 ms
9 aol.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.13.2) 15.569 ms 15.114 ms 14.822 ms
10 bb1-sjg-p0-0.atdn.net (66.185.150.80) 38.987 ms 119.282 ms 200.334 ms
MPLS Label=139 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=1
11 bb1-ntc-p5-0.atdn.net (66.185.152.62) 15.473 ms 16.130 ms 16.053 ms
MPLS Label=32 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=1
12 pop1-ntc-p0-0.atdn.net (66.185.142.113) 15.852 ms 15.423 ms 15.732 ms
13 cor1-nc1-p4-3.atdn.net (66.185.142.154) 15.445 ms 15.435 ms 15.565 ms
14 172.17.66.170 (172.17.66.170) 15.631 ms 15.873 ms 16.331 msFast Serv Networks, LLC | AS29889 | DDOS Protected | Managed Cloud, Streaming, Dedicated Servers, Colo by-the-U
Since 2003 - Ashburn VA + San Diego CA Datacenters
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06-28-2008, 07:33 AM #13WHT Addict
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06-28-2008, 12:33 PM #14Web Hosting Master
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06-28-2008, 01:07 PM #15Web Hosting Evangelist
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VEXXHOST, Inc.
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High Performance OpenStack® Public Cloud | Cloud Servers | Web Hosting
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06-28-2008, 08:53 PM #16WHT Addict
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06-28-2008, 08:55 PM #17WHT Addict
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06-28-2008, 09:37 PM #18Web Hosting Master
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http://www.renesys.com/blog/2008/06/...nsitfree.shtml
As I previous cited Rensys' posting on Cogent's peering with ATDN, which made them transit free. Of course you can't be 100% certain they are not paying for transit on some small corner of their network, but Rensys isn't some guy making stuff up, its real metrics. Therefore, transit free = Tier 1 provider.
My intent isn't to defend Cogent for anything they do, only to state what has happened.
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06-28-2008, 10:26 PM #19WHT Addict
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I was not going to respond to this thread but could not resist after the mention of 'Cogent' in that top 9 list.
I'll provide another perspective here other than those already provided. Based on my consulting experience and working with businesses that use many a Software As A Service type applications, and having spent a great deal of non billable time chasing down customer issues with our applications in the past , Cogent is useful for the following scenarios:
1. Web based applications that do not require reliability of connectivity (Free porn comes to mind)
2. Low priority, internal, non customer facing site to site communications (Secondary backup sites)
3. Data center operators that are targeting the web hosting services market segment where price is #1 consideration. These data center operators try to resolve connectivity complaints with "send us trace routes" which is impractical when dealing with web based customers or consumers.
I have seen quite a few startup Software As A Service companies lose good paying corporate customers thanks to hosting their websites over Cogent transit. While the trace routes look decent (ICMP can be QOSed to look good), throughput is random.
The day InterNap adds Cogent to their mix, that will be my bell weather for Cogent.
I've seen Global Crossing and SAVVIS at the higher end customers and without much complaints. AT&T has a top notch global support team that is managed out of New York and run out of Singapore (at least that was the case a few years ago).
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06-28-2008, 10:51 PM #20Doh!!
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06-29-2008, 06:45 AM #21WHT Addict
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06-29-2008, 07:02 AM #22Randy
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Fast Serv Networks, LLC | AS29889 | DDOS Protected | Managed Cloud, Streaming, Dedicated Servers, Colo by-the-U
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06-29-2008, 07:18 AM #23WHT Addict
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Last edited by ollebanan; 06-29-2008 at 07:25 AM.
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06-30-2008, 06:10 AM #24Newbie
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Cogent
Cogent are not Tier-1. They have to buy certain routes from certain Tier-1 providers after they annoyed a well known Tier-1 provider a couple of years ago with their pricing model.
For quality, go with NTT/VERIO or Level 3, for cheaper take Telia or Interroute and Cogent - they both can't go down at the same time can they?!
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06-30-2008, 09:39 AM #25Randy
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Michael, who are they buying transit from today?
Fast Serv Networks, LLC | AS29889 | DDOS Protected | Managed Cloud, Streaming, Dedicated Servers, Colo by-the-U
Since 2003 - Ashburn VA + San Diego CA Datacenters