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Thread: Legal question

  1. #1

    Legal question

    I am getting crazy emails from some guy's attorney saying that one of my clients stole his domain.

    Quote from lawyer:

    The party now illegally controlling <domainremoved.com> is using your DNS to redirect traffic away from my client, stop its emails, and to otherwise profit from the criminal taking of my client's property. Therefore, your company though its DNS is assisting the perpetrator of a fraud as the hijacker is redirecting traffic and intercepting emails through your DNS.


    I'm not sure whether I am actually assisting this person in fraud. I don't know if he got the domain fraudulently but I am also not sure how using my DNS nameservers would implicate me.

    Any advice would be much appreciated.
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  2. #2
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    Well this is an online message board so I highly recommend not taking any legal advice from it.

    However, if I were in your shoes:
    I would contact my client telling him that I'm receiving emails claiming that he stole XXXXXX.tld domain. Then I would contact my lawyer to make sure that I can in no way be held in court for any wrong doings. Then I would go on with my life.

    Possibly research the domain further.
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  3. #3
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    Personally, I'd ignore anything like that that arrives in email. Essential legal communication will arrive in the mail or be handed to you personally.

    Even beyond that, a real communication from a lawyer on an issue like that would likely cite specifics as to which laws or precedents you should be aware of and exactly what action they're requesting.

    My advice: If you're nervous, run it past your lawyer. Otherwise, block future emails from him and forget about it.
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  4. #4
    Thanks JayC. I've dealt with lawyers before and they are pretty specific and right to the point. The email seemed like gibberish trying to incite some fear, but the thing is a consultation with a decent lawyer costs alot of money and if its bogus then its alot of money wasted.

    Thanks.
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  5. #5
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    I think I will set up a Spamassassin rule that filters any emails containing the words law offices, lawyers, DMCA, or cease and desist.

    If I legitimately never see these questionable emails from "lawyers" I'm OK, right?

  6. #6
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    Originally posted by sightz.com
    If I legitimately never see these questionable emails from "lawyers" I'm OK, right?
    Perhaps, except in the case of the DMCA (assuming you're in the US), if you want to take advantage of the safe harbor provisions. In that case, you have to register a contact person with the copyright office, and I believe that email is considered a valid contact method under the Act.
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  7. #7
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    I would have to agree with the above. If your client "hijacked" the domain and he is the owner as far as the WHOIS record is concerned, you have no liability to suspend service and depending on your TOS have a liability to maintain it. If the WHOIS lines up then the lawyer should be contacting the domain registrar and the listed owner. If someone is storing a stolen car in my garage then I'm not giving it back until the police tell me its stolen or the owner AFAIK moves it, I see this as a bit of a similar situation. From the wording of your letter it almost seems like the lawyer is a bit of a fake, although you never know I suppose.

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  8. #8
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    If this lawyer had a legal leg to stand on, why wouldn't he refer to the UDRP @ ICANN & put the domain in dispute. Sounds like a scare tactic to me.

  9. #9
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    Why would an attorney email you? Every legal document I've ever received comes through the mail...and generally registered mail or hand delivered.
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  10. #10
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    I would email him back and ask him for his name, law office, what state he has bar in and his companies telephone number so your lawyer can get in touch with him(Just to see what the response is).

    Again, what's allready been stated, legal documents come through the mail or are hand delivered in the US.

    About the DMCA, though they do send you an email first, they are still required(and will) to snail mail you any legal documentation before actually can take any legal action against you.
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  11. #11
    I've done a bit of research, not sure if I really need a lawyer, but what would domain hijacking be considered under the law? fraud, it doesn't sound like trademark infringement or anything like that.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Legal question

    Originally posted by TheHS
    Any advice would be much appreciated.
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  13. #13
    haha ok, thanks plesk6host.
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  14. #14
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    Originally posted by TheHS
    I've done a bit of research, not sure if I really need a lawyer, but what would domain hijacking be considered under the law? fraud, it doesn't sound like trademark infringement or anything like that.
    It really depends on the details. If they're saying that your customer somehow fraudulently took posession of the name (as in the well-known sex.com case, where one party submitted deceptive information to the registrar in order to take control), it's not actually trademark infringement. Still it's more likely a DMCA matter than anything else -- and in any case has nothing to do with you if your only role is that you're hosting the site.

    You're probably right that you don't need a lawyer at this point. Sounds like someone just blowing smoke -- other than the fact that it's worthwhile to educate yourself on the issues, I wouldn't worry about it unless you receive some official documentation... which is pretty unlikely to happen given the information you've posted here.
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  15. #15
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    I would email him back and ask him for his name, law office, what state he has bar in and his companies telephone number so your lawyer can get in touch with him(Just to see what the response is).

    I agree 100% with Frozen... he is RIGHT ON with the above!

    If you do the above, I'd be very much surprised if he responded back to you.

    I'm no lawyer and hence I'm not offering any legal advice here - but I can tell you that if someone sent me a letter written in that way and mentioning phrases like "profit from the criminal taking of my client's property" --- that doesn't sound like legal-ese
    but rather I'm-pretending-I'm-a-lawyer-ese to me.

    Plus, as many others have mentioned - if a lawyer is really retained by someone to pursue an issue... you'd be getting a certified letter in the mail on that law firm's letterhead stating the specific infractions and the demand for redress.

    No real lawyer worth their salt who is hired to litigate is going to send a little e-mail by itself and expect to bully someone into submission.

    Anyways, that's just my two cents and how I would view it if I were in that same situation.
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  16. #16
    I had been served legal letters on email before but that is always just a copy with the actual arriving via hand delivered mail after. So anyone that's serving just purely via email is likely to be bogus.
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  17. #17
    This is a big problem for all hosts.

    We are not judges and we cannot know what the truth is in this situation.
    Unfotunately, lawyers are lazy and go for the host because they usually can;t find the person who did it or are too lazy to go looking.

    You need to ask them for the evidence that this person stole the domain name.
    Tell them to report the issue to the registrar of record as well.

    Probably the owner forgot to renew it.

    Some of the best ones I get are from the US complaining about UK web sites and threatening all sorts.
    For example we got a letter from the FBI stating that a site owned by a customer in New Zealand and hosted in the UK was in breach of some federal statute. The site does not break UK or NZ law (it was the issue of the display of the business name).

    I wrote back asking them on what basis they were claiming jusrisdiction in the UK and NZ and have still not had a reply.

    When we get stuff through the post from US lawyers (we get a couple a week) I pass them to the site owners.

    Actually, we had a classic one where a customer ran a site against a major religious cult.
    He had photos of the leader with his Rolls Royce and private jet.
    The cult got a top new York law firm onto it claiming that they owned the copyright to the pictures, so the guy moved (Physically moved) to Larvia and moved his site over there where there are very strict anti cult laws.

    I love lawyers letters. They are usually an act of desparation by someone who knows he has no chance of winning.
    If they really thought they had a case they would take the site owner to court not try and get their site taken down till they move to another host.

    I have a huge list of cases.
    One day I will write a book.

    Gordon
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  18. #18
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    99% of all "lawyers" emailing are not lawyers.

    I have probably been contacted by roughly... 200 or 300 lawyers. As far as I remember, the only legit one was from Rolex about some fake watch scam. Although they *did* also contact me by postal mail and fax...
    Jim Reardon - jim/amusive.com

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