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  1. #1

    Exclamation purchased domain name transfer disaster

    2 days ago i purchased a premium domain name from sedo.

    the following all on/around the same day (yesterday 3/14/13 for me in usa):

    - i selected network solutions as the registrar since they claim to be "the" original registry of all.

    - i placed an order with network solutions for transfer and intead of transering the domain, they placed the domain into a domain vendor's account they identified only as 'internet ventures'.

    - of course i called and keep gettings reps that state i requested my transfer be cancelled after completion. of course, i didnt and it makes no kind of sense that action would be taken on the new transer account unless.. internal fraud?

    - i asked what is the remedy and it was stated by 2 reps there is no remedy, as once my domain transfered to network solutions it was deleted and instantaneously acquired by the "backorder" of the domain-selling business identified only as 'internet ventured'

    - i specifically instructed them to redeem my domain before the 2 week period and the 2 networksolutions reps stated there is no redemption period for transferred domains.

    - what action should i take to recover my domain? i'm not about to let network solutions hand the domain i just paid thousands of dollars for, to their backorder buddy!

    - is this not gross violation of ICANN regulations? i'm so shocked because i thought i was dealing with the most establishd registrar, not some inside reseller theft scheme.

    i did demand a ticket claim be opened as transfer was implicitly prohibited, yet network solution just updated they have to wait on their backorder buddy to volutarily release my purchased premium domain

    after being given the runaround, this is the first place (wht) i found to ask for help... please!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Memphis, TN
    Posts
    3,285
    I have never been a fan of NS, they are some of the slowest around in terms of reacting to issues and incidents.

    Its always best to try and resolve a domain issue with the registrar however some issues need to be mediated by icann.

    Have you tried contacting Sedo to see what their side shows occured in regards to transfering the domain? (i have never used sedo so not familiar with how they operate)
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  3. #3
    I decided to use NS because Internic mentioned NS being the 'original registry.

    I dont mind the time in this nightmare, but everytime I've spoken with them, whether the reps in PH or the regular reps in US, they have so far always said they will try to get the domain back from the new owner!

    Which I point out is probably the hugest ICANN violation possible: deleting someones multi-thousand dollar domain the same exact day, if not hour, it was transferred and releasing it to their backorder buddy through their backdoor or whatever they have to gain from such a coincidentally aligned 'mistake'.

    Even saying this is nerve-racking, because its like if your business number was 800-800-8000 and because you were changing phone companies, someone within got sneaky and jumped on the opportunity to give your number the same day to another business for a bunch of $$$$ under the table and the when queries, tell you the customer that there's nothing they can do, ish happens just go get another phone number. Outrageous, is the economy that bad, people are that desperate for $. I do see the domain is up for sale through domainbrokers.com, which may mean the backdoor buddy of whatever NS employee did this, has already listed it up for sale, as well as has also so far refused to release the domain back to me through the email that is sent out for each transfer. Even that I can't believe NS is telling me to wait on nonchalantly, because its not right. It's like someone steels your wifes purse and tells you they will return it when they get around to it in a few days.. maybe. Last time I checked thats negligent enablement of theft.

    Even when my domain does finally go into my NS account (it never was, it was only transfered to NS then immediately given to their backorder buddy before appearing in my account so i can update nameservers, etc).... NS will be held responsible for the damage. I hope there's lawyers out there that specialize in domain/website ownership.. are there?

    When I called the Sedo # it turned out to be a voicemail only, and they do not even have a real US office or US phone#! The rep explained once the registrar receives, the case is closed. Which can't be true because they are escrow agents and were supposed to see that the domain was put into my NS account, no given to any tom dick harry at NS. To top it off, Sedo added $60 for accepting paypal instead of a bank transfer. I would never use Sedo again and in the worst case scenario where my domain remains stolen, of course a PayPal dispute will be filed.

    I wonder can a police report be filed againt NS? I believe this is grand larceny regardless of who in NS perpetrated it and their technical excuse to cover it up. Even 2 reps at NS stated its the "first time they've seen this happen" ever.

    Convenient for them its the weekend. Can't wait till monday.. have a good one!

    Thanks for the first reply. This one's in caps and less mispells because I'm on my phone.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    86
    This case certainly seems strange. Makes me cautious against using NS. Maybe you could ask around in domain forums such as dnforum. If you want good domain lawyers you could try dnforum.com/f295. Hope you get your domain back.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    4,667
    I am unclear. You bought a domain from someone via SEDO, you paid SEDO for the domain, and they gave you the EPP code to initiate a transfer from your NS control panel?. The timeline (2 days) seems awfully short to conclude a SEDO buy AND transfer a domain name to new registrar. Typically a sold domain is pushed to another account at the seller's registrar. Can you clarify?

  6. #6
    ^ i searched for the domain on sedo.com and purchased it there.

    here, i'll try to paste the log but remove as much names/addies as i can:

    Mar/12/13 Domain purchased from sedo.com website listing
    Mar/12/13 Escrow payment received by sedo.com
    Mar/12/13 Seller instructed to push domain to Sedo account
    Mar/12/13 Invoice from seller added
    Mar/12/13 Transfer to Sedo account complete
    Mar/13/13 Authorization code provided to networksolutions.com
    Mar/13/13 Pending Verification
    Mar/13/13 Sedo Transfer Agent: Approved domain transfer
    Mar/15/13 Sedo Transfer Agent: This transaction has been closed
    Mar/15/13 Me: Domain is still not in my NS account
    Mar/15/13 Sedo Transfer Agent: I did approve you transfer to NS
    Mar/15/13 Me: NS states account deleted upon transfer
    Whois info states:
    Registrant: New Ventures Services, Corp
    Record expires on 23-Mar-2015
    Record created on 14-Mar-2013.
    Domain servers in listed order:
    BUY.INTERNETTRAFFIC.COM
    SELL.INTERNETTRAFFIC.COM
    Mar/15/13 Me: NS attempt "in-channel swap w/i NS"
    Mar/15/13 "In Progress- Auth from NS Account Holder or Admin Contact has (still) not been received."

    (^duh.. why are NS 'waiting' for backorderer to release domain, its their, NS, error. they're rubbing salt into the wound there)

    my thoughts to ICANN: how can Network Solutions get away with this? unless i take action, i'm losing thousands of dollars over NS's blatant breach of ICANN protocols. to top it off, Registrant that is benefitting from this theft of my domain, appears to already have my domain up for sale, instead of 'doing the right thing'.

  7. #7
    I think I understand what happened, although there's one question I'd like you to ask the seller if possible: did the domain name expire during the time it was sold to you?

    I ask that because I notice New Ventures Services "targetting" domain names that expire (and not renewed on time) at NS for the longest time. If what I think is what happened here, unfortunately it's...not looking good.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,042
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Zan View Post
    I think I understand what happened, although there's one question I'd like you to ask the seller if possible: did the domain name expire during the time it was sold to you?

    I ask that because I notice New Ventures Services "targetting" domain names that expire (and not renewed on time) at NS for the longest time. If what I think is what happened here, unfortunately it's...not looking good.
    But shouldn't the transfer have auto-renewed the domain, thus effectively undoing the expiry? (Of course the domain name would still have been in redemption for that... but I can't see a domain being auctioned on Sedo when it's that far past its expiry date)

    If the domain had expired at the time of auction then the OP may have a case against the seller - or against Sedo, for negligence (i.e., allowing this to happen)

    I think the OP needs a lawyer. I don't think any of us will be able to resolve the matter for him.

  9. #9
    to reiterate, the domain was inexplicably, suspiciously DELETED by NS during TRANSFER; it was not expired.

    the seller has shown the premium domain was registered for years beyond.


    the asking of the domain on SEDO was US$4,060 although i did negotiate it down a bit. i paid through paypal via instant transfer out of bank account.

    now, everything is currently down the crapper and i do hold NS accountable for the theft 3-fold. for 1. even the very basic ICANN regulations prohibit deleting a domain during transfer from one domain to another and 2. a backorderer account on NS conveniently benefited from this transfer and is holding my domain hostage AND NS is only waiting on the backorderer to voluntarily release the domain even though i have voiced the fact the backorderer is already advertising MY domain for sale, which constitutes grand larceny. 3.for not honoring the whole 2week redemption period required by ICANN to prevent such registrar's negligent enablement of domain loss/theft under the guise of deletion via gross 'technical or administrative error' and such.

    complications so far include delay/cancellations of business launch, extra time/fees to update web design, change custom logo, and the irreplacability as this domain is uniquely descriptive of my business arena & locale (ca).. not to mention the agony dealing with NS hiding behind the theft.

    thanks in advance for domain lawyer websites (at the 7 day mark will consider commencing pro-se while interviewing contingent litigation) and thanks to the wht, since it has been the first and so far only forum i have been documenting this loss and theft of my domain.

    (however, in contrast) i'm not going to pay for membership at another website (dnf?) just to introduce myself or reply to an occasional thread.. afterall i'm already out thousands of dollars until compensated for this loss/theft)

    and i have been googling the issue of domain name as property loss..

    heres the first article came across:

    domainnamenews.com/featured/criminal-prosecution-domain-theft-underway/5675

  10. #10
    (Note to self: get enough sleep before posting online. Sheesh.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lubeca View Post
    But shouldn't the transfer have auto-renewed the domain, thus effectively undoing the expiry?
    Depends on timing. What I initially suspected is the domain name expired (and later auctioned off) by the time the OP bought the domain name via Sedo.

    What baffles me are the creation and expiration dates the OP posted. Ideally (well ideally, anyway) they should have the same month and day, but they currently don't match as you notice.

    It's probably not much help, OP, but can you kindly post the entire WHOIS record minus the actual domain name itself? Specifically, the last updated date.

    Meanwhile, if you really want to pursue this matter (and I don't blame you), I blogged on a few domain name lawyers if you're still seeking legal help. Check my blog in my second signature line and search for "domain lawyers galore".

    Good luck.

  11. #11
    thanks! imma click ur sig and start screening lawyers to see if contingency is possible. i would pursue material losees if pro-se but with attorney would go for at least 500K.. or more if it's true top .com domains appreciate at around 97%/year? i read that somewhere.. gotta remember to ask lawyers that as this domain would reasonably pertain to a certain billion dollar industry and is regionally/generically descriptive which is always an added plus.

    in the mean while in a hot minute i did a screen shot and tried to wipe all but hte 1st & last letters; fellow members pls point out anything (else) that looks atypical..

    not surprisingly, one rep stated "there must have been a fraud, or problem with a payment, oh yes i see you requested to cancel the domain and filed a chargeback after placing this order"

    fraud? the irony. cancel a transferred domain? chargeback? ok, which one? apparently NS deals in speculation in addition to fabrication, while i deal in facts.

    ie, luckily my credit card company has been cooperate and is already mailing me a copy of a letter confirming my card was charged the $9.99 1st year upon transfer. haven't received the letter but the tedious task of documenting everything since NS is still refusing, has begun.

    ://i48.tinypic.com/330s4yp.jpg

  12. #12
    ^http

    (im like 1 more post away from bein able to embed.. yayyy!) =D

    dont know why but a while ago @ 3am sun morning and im now getting an email from NS.. anywhat they provided a link only to login to a NS Sellers Program Account. i did a lost password to email using the account number and notice what it spit back. its almost like they do not see any benefit in actually giving me access now that they let one of their Seller accounts 'have' it:


    March 17, 2013

    Network Solutions:

    When I attempt to access the account you listed below (which has had nothing to do with this transaction), I get the following access-denied message:

    "We are unable to log you in.
    User ID is associated with a participant of our Reseller Program who registered a domain name or service on your behalf." - networksolutions.com

    Furthermore, what is my domain doing on a Reseller Program account? When I go to my domain site, It is clear someone is advertising it for Sale at the homepage cxxxxxs.com I do business under my name john doe and not under any business name. It is clear my domain has been wrongfully transferred to someone else's account, not mine.

    As of today it has been over 3 days since the domain I purchased from Sedo.com for US$XXXX.00 and transfered to my only Network solutions account (cxxxxxs), has, on the same day of transfer approval, been taken and placed not in my account, but in some reseller's account.

    The 3 NS reps who I have spoken with in the past 3 days have each stated different reasons my domain has been registered to someone else. The first excuse was chargeback, which is ridiculous since the payment was authorized. The second excuse from a NS rep given, was that the payment was refunded for unknown reason, after the transfer into NS happened. The 3rd excuse, given yesterday (Friday), was that the domain was "deleted" after transfer then re-registered to another customer account on NS.

    cxxxxxs.com is a top level domain that is unique to my region and business. I paid USXXX.00 for it 4-5 days ago as well as $9.99 to NS for the registration, and NS has negligently transfered the ownership from Moniker not to the authorized account, but violated even the very basic ICANN protocols plus denied the rightful registrant the ability to initiate a 2 week redemption period in order to rectify this erroneous transfer and theft of my domain during transfer into my NS account "cxxxxxs" which bears the following order numbers (only): 3XXXXXXX

    I do see that a 2nd account #3XXXXXXX was created after my complaint that my domain instead of transferring to my account, seemed suspiciously already being advertised by a NS reseller, and still is at the time of this letter (at http://cxxxxxs.com)

    I have no access to any other accounts and to transfer my domain cxxxxxs.com into any other (as seems to have been done a 2nd time according to yout update) continues to be a breach of ICANN protocols and continues compounding the damage and loss of not being able to administer, configure, design, and finally launch my purchased premium domain cxxxxxs.com well into one week after transfer in to NS, and going.

    Time is of the essence; there is no reason for further ongoing delays and setbacks in rectifying NS actions and placing cxxxxxs where it has belonged since transfer approval on 3/14/2013. From my viewpoint as the customer worried about his domain recovery, any further losing/gaining issues since that date may constitute further ICANN foul play from then on.

    SIncerely, I am

    john doe
    XXX-XXX-XXXX


    Subject: Network Solutions Service Request #1-6XXXXXXXX
    Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 00:51:08 +0800
    From: customerservice@networksolutions.com
    To: XXXXX@msn.com; XXXXX@msn.com

    Dear John,

    I apologize for the inconvenience.



    With regard to your concern, our record shows that the domain name cxxxxxs.COM has been successfully transferred from Account Number 3XXXXXX to 2XXXXX last March 15, 2013. Please be advised that the domain name can now be managed through the new Network Solutions account.



    I hope this has resolved your issue. If you have any other questions about this issue, please contact our Support Center and refer to Service Request 1-XXXXXXXX. A Specialist will be happy to further assist you and ensure that we completely resolve your issue as quickly as possible.


    Thank you,


    ARLXXXX004

    Technical Support Specialist
    Network Solutions
    US/Canada: 1.866.391.4357
    International: 1.570.708.8788


    in other news, i was reading the wiki file on NS and it appears there was a similar case with races.com but in that case it states the claimant wasn't a customer yet. im not sure how he was not a customer yet but they managed to also give his account to a seller thats like front-lining existing domains thru the use of so called "transfer errors" they (Reseller) even demanded half a million from the rightful owner?

    i'll try to make another thread about races.com if theres is none, it seems an exemplary case of registrar arrogance and lack of adequate ICANN protection that should be on par with the FCC provisions for such things radio stations or Tv channels (since ICANN & registrars refer to accounts/domains as channels? and for such grievances such as theft of ebay or of a bank domain.. what if??

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    127.0.0.1
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    5,732

    Re: purchased domain name transfer disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Techno View Post
    I am unclear. You bought a domain from someone via SEDO, you paid SEDO for the domain, and they gave you the EPP code to initiate a transfer from your NS control panel?. The timeline (2 days) seems awfully short to conclude a SEDO buy AND transfer a domain name to new registrar. Typically a sold domain is pushed to another account at the seller's registrar. Can you clarify?
    They can't push it and it costs to transfer a non co.uk domain from one registrar to another.

  14. #14
    ^ Sedo.com are domain brokers. the Sedo agent who handled my negotiation and transfer is in Germany. i even asked him and Sedo online chat for a USA number to call and they said they only have Europe main office so far. there is a (617) phone number on my PayPal payment to Sedo, but when i called it went to broker messaging only.

    i searched various sites including sedo. i found the domain listed for $4060 and started making offers. i accepted a counteroffer, paid, and then received an electronic invoice from seller who is in hong kong. the broker in germany seems to indicate he was the one who approved the transfer authorization code after the hong kong seller pushed the domain to sedo's account (on moniker, i guess?). all with sedo went smoothly until i reported the domain is not in my account, then sedo closed the case and it became unfruitful getting a hold of anyone except thru messaging. the broker said he called and left me a message but i didnt get any message. then again i dont have international service on my phone, i'm not yet a business, this is my first and only domain, intended for business launch. the rest is history:

    Mar/12/13 Domain purchased from sedo.com website listing
    Mar/12/13 Escrow payment received by sedo.com
    Mar/12/13 Seller instructed to push domain to Sedo account
    Mar/12/13 Invoice from seller added
    Mar/12/13 Transfer to Sedo account complete
    Mar/13/13 Authorization code provided to networksolutions.com
    Mar/13/13 Pending Verification
    Mar/13/13 Sedo Transfer Agent: Approved domain transfer
    Mar/15/13 Sedo Transfer Agent: This transaction has been closed
    Mar/15/13 Me: Domain is still not in my NS account
    Mar/15/13 Sedo Transfer Agent: I did approve you transfer to NS
    Mar/15/13 Me: NS states account deleted upon transfer
    Whois info states:
    Registrant: New Ventures Services, Corp
    Record expires on 23-Mar-2015
    Record created on 14-Mar-2013
    Domain servers in listed order:
    BUY.INTERNETTRAFFIC.COM
    SELL.INTERNETTRAFFIC.COM
    Mar/15/13 Me: NS attempt "in-channel swap w/i NS"
    Mar/15/13 NS: "In Progress- Auth from NS Account Holder or Admin Contact has (still) not been received."

    as the email excerpt below demonstrates, NS confirms transfer into my NS account but then transferred the account to an NS Reseller account:

    "With regard to your concern, our record shows that the domain name cxxxxxs.COM has been successfully transferred from Account Number 3XXXXXX to 2XXXXX last March 15, 2013. Please be advised that the domain name can now be managed through the new Network Solutions account."

    when i tried to administer the domain this morning from the above account# at NS, got the following ongoing disappointment, since its not fixed:

    "We are unable to log you in.
    User ID is associated with a participant of our Reseller Program who registered a domain name or service on your behalf." -

    That is exactly what the login attempt failure msg says this morning at networksolutions.com
    Last edited by premiumdomain; 03-17-2013 at 07:30 AM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    London, United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,455
    Sound very much like you bought a domain which had already expired. And it was deleted by the registry ( and then registered by a new registrant ) - no "transfer" has taken place so no auto-renewal has happened either.
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  16. #16
    the seller has shown the premium domain was registered for years beyond.

    the domain transfer shows transfer complete successfuly into my NS account.. then back out into an NS Reseller Program account.

    here i'll screenshot it:

    http://i46.tinypic.com/35jm7hz.jpg

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Zan View Post
    Meanwhile, if you really want to pursue this matter (and I don't blame you), I blogged on a few domain name lawyers if you're still seeking legal help. Check my blog in my second signature line and search for "domain lawyers galore".

    Good luck.
    Ok thx again Dave; i've been clicking on those links one by one (not all just just a few) and emailed them by grievance asking if its feasible to take action and wont put a hole in my wallet.

    noticed a couple links r now broken.. like david, deborah.. i had to deleted the address down to the com and it worked going to the roots

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by premiumdomain View Post
    noticed a couple links r now broken.. like david, deborah.. i had to deleted the address down to the com and it worked going to the roots
    Sorry about that. I'll update it, and thanks.

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