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  1. #1
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    Jul 2007
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    * Cloud Hosting NEWB Needs Help!

    OK, the reason I want cloud hosting because it seems to have the best uptime among all hosting types despite Amazon going down, correct me if I'm wrong.

    Also, I like the pay for what you use idea (except Bandwidth ). Here's my requirements 2GB RAM, 2500GB transfer a month and maybe 200MB space.

    I can't get screwed on bandwidth pricing, I'm not paying $0.20/GB and I'm not even paying $0.05, noway! - I need competitive bandwidth pricing obviously. Bandwidth is dirt cheap these days and I'm not about to get ripped on it.

    Now for the resources, RAM and CPU I'm prepared to pay well.

    And I want it Managed. I want to run Apache.

    So I'd like to get started something at a minimal cost given my requirements and with a reputable provider. My budget is $50-$200 / month.

  2. #2
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    May 2007
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    There are many providers that will suit you. However you have to realize that .20/gb is a bit of money, .05 really isn't too much when you think about it. 15 dollars per meg seems reasonable to me depending on their mix. In our Seattle facility, we have Sprint, LEvel3, Abovenet, XO and Cogent, I commit to 1GB per carrier. I pay around 15 dollars per meg all in all. I do a true mix, no weighting.

    Some people around here may have like a unmetered 10mb cloud plan here, more or less your going to have to look for someone who over commits bandwidth

    Rest of the stuff on here looks reasonable. I think your biggest challenge is going to be bandwidth.

    I'm not sure who I would recommend tho. I'm not sure if anybody offers anything close to what your looking for for the price your looking for it. Not even myself.
    Michael Wallace - michael@innoscale.net
    Innovative Scaling Technologies Inc. - A Cloud Service Provider
    24/7 Support, Call us @ 1-307-200-4880
    www.innoscale.net - Seattle, Silicon Valley, Dallas, Chicago, Washington D.C., and Europe

  3. #3
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    Why is bandwidth such a huge issue? You can get 10mbit or 100mbit unmetered for very little money. WHy if it's cloud, now all of a sudden I have to pay thru the nose for bandwidth? Where's the logic in that?

  4. #4
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    By the way HostGator just announced 10TB bandwidth for all dedicated servers. I mean like.. who are we kidding with $0.20/GB or even $0.05/Gb stuff?

  5. #5
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    I don't know how long you've been around. From the looks of your post you've been around as long as I have at lease on this forum.

    When I offer someone 100meg, they GET 100 meg. 100 meg cost me 1500/mo.

    I'm not going to let it go for less than what I'm paying for it. Wheres the logic in that? In any situation we call that giving the farm away. Doesn't matter if your selling milk, bandwidth, or labor. If I hire someone to work for me, an I'm paying him 30/hr. I cant resell him to you for 15/hr. Makes no logical sense at all.

    The reason these guys are selling you unmetered 100meg pipes for 100/mo maybe because they have 150 others on that 100 meg pipe, so they are able to make back their 15000/mo. I think of it in different terms. I can do the same thing easily. I choose to do our stuff different. a more honest approach to hosting. When I say dedicated I mean DEDICATED.

    I'm sure a lot of different people can vouch for that. If your looking for OMGZ Unlimited bandwidth go to hostgator, 123host.net, godaddy, or 1and1.

    For the rest of us that see a value in Cloud hosting, and the demands to have near 100% uptime. No BS type hosting. I'm not competing with Hostgator.

    I hope this makes sense.

    Thanks,
    Michael Wallace - michael@innoscale.net
    Innovative Scaling Technologies Inc. - A Cloud Service Provider
    24/7 Support, Call us @ 1-307-200-4880
    www.innoscale.net - Seattle, Silicon Valley, Dallas, Chicago, Washington D.C., and Europe

  6. #6
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    Jul 2007
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    well check this out. I'm the customer... from my point of view if I get a 10Mbit pipe and its not "dedicated" but it's delivered, meaning I get no problems with my bandwidth, no slowness, no issues, nothing....

    I really don't care what tricks the host uses to hook me up like that. If he gives same pipe to 199 other guys, and I'm using 98% of it - that's fine with me.

    I think the most important parameter is not dedicated resources. It's delivered resources.

    1% of people use 90% of resources - that's what overselling is based on. it's sound math and it surely works for me. I'm the 1% and I get an awesome deal.

  7. #7
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    If you're managing to use 98% without your dedicated provider blinking an eye, good for you. But as we've seen from history, at some point in time, a provider will wake up and realize said users are consistently using more than their fair share and overburdening the network from a capacity planning perspective. Case in point is 100tb vs SimpleCDN.

    Also, when it comes to the cloud, resource costing from a consumer standpoint is never going to be the same as dedicated since you're asking for resources without any long-term commitment. For every hour you don't use your server/bandwidth, the provider still has the same cost and that'll get passed onto you.

    Remember, providers have to pay by the pipe, not GB.

  8. #8
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    Jul 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by tchen View Post
    Remember, providers have to pay by the pipe, not GB.
    Exactly, so don't charge me by GB for bandwidth. Especially if you own your own datacenter. And I'm pretty much only looking at owned-datacenter hosts now for this reason (among others).

    And what happened with 100tb vs simplecdn?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by vader2 View Post
    well check this out. I'm the customer... from my point of view if I get a 10Mbit pipe and its not "dedicated" but it's delivered, meaning I get no problems with my bandwidth, no slowness, no issues, nothing....

    I really don't care what tricks the host uses to hook me up like that. If he gives same pipe to 199 other guys, and I'm using 98% of it - that's fine with me.

    I think the most important parameter is not dedicated resources. It's delivered resources.

    1% of people use 90% of resources - that's what overselling is based on. it's sound math and it surely works for me. I'm the 1% and I get an awesome deal.
    Yeah, If you can get away with it cool. Is it fair that you are using 98% of a pipe that the other customers now do not have access to if they need it? Thats what it all comes down too. EVERY one of our customers can use their FULL allotment of bandwidth, and NOBODY will have slowdowns.

    What happens if there are 3 of you on the same pipe, and now you are all fighting over the bandwidth? I bet we would be hearing about how much host123.net is horrible and you get bad speeds. Whats fair? What is it worth to you?

    We give ALL of our customers 1GB pipes to the internet, and they can use 100% of that 1GB pipe, I wont blink and eye, but I'm sure they maybe mad when they get a bill for the cost of that pipe. We enforce our bandwidth policies. We are a business, and the business has to stay afloat.

    With that being said We keep our lines clear specifically for bursting capability. We work off the 95 percentile billing tho. We throw away 5% of your highest usage and only charge you for 95% of your lowest usage.

    I wouldn't consider us to be a 'bad' provider because we dont give the customer what they want. I understand your a customer. but in the same sense its your or the business. Ill choose business over 1 customer who wants 'unlimited bandwidth' no offense.

    Thanks,
    Michael Wallace - michael@innoscale.net
    Innovative Scaling Technologies Inc. - A Cloud Service Provider
    24/7 Support, Call us @ 1-307-200-4880
    www.innoscale.net - Seattle, Silicon Valley, Dallas, Chicago, Washington D.C., and Europe

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by vader2 View Post
    Exactly, so don't charge me by GB for bandwidth. Especially if you own your own datacenter. And I'm pretty much only looking at owned-datacenter hosts now for this reason (among others).

    And what happened with 100tb vs simplecdn?
    That is not very accurate.

    We pay by the meg of bandwidth. Doesnt matter if you buy 1meg (300GB/mo) or 1000meg (300,000GB/mo) We charge on the per meg basis, not the per GB. You can easily equate 300GB / 10/meg (cost) = 30GB per 1 dollar.

    I personally will stick with the 95% billing on our dealings with our customers.

    If you want to pay for pipe most people can arrange this for you. I know we do.

    Thanks,
    Michael Wallace - michael@innoscale.net
    Innovative Scaling Technologies Inc. - A Cloud Service Provider
    24/7 Support, Call us @ 1-307-200-4880
    www.innoscale.net - Seattle, Silicon Valley, Dallas, Chicago, Washington D.C., and Europe

  11. #11
    cloud help reduce the downtime to almost zero, but other factors could happened, such as fire, tornado, tsunami. Haha. Just kidding. Anyway, the point is, cloud is more secure, but it does come with a price.
    http://********.com.my
    Malaysia Number 1 hosting company

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by vader2 View Post

    And what happened with 100tb vs simplecdn?
    Lot of reading here - http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1005111

  13. #13
    Checkout eUKhost. They offer good Cloud VPS Servers.
    HostXNow - Shared Web Hosting | Semi Dedicated Hosting | Enterprise Reseller Hosting | VPS Hosting

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by HostXNow View Post
    Checkout eUKhost. They offer good Cloud VPS Servers.
    What makes it a good one?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by vader2 View Post
    What makes it a good one?
    Their setup - check http://www.eukhost.com/cloud-hosting.php
    HostXNow - Shared Web Hosting | Semi Dedicated Hosting | Enterprise Reseller Hosting | VPS Hosting

  16. #16
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    I'm not trying to hijack this thread or something. But if you think of it, your reasoning is totally false OP.

    If your reasoning is that Bandwidth is cheap now-a-days, then are you expecting the CDN operators to give it to you at around $0.02/GB? Same reasoning here with your example up top. It's just simple logic, when you go into a 5 star exclusive restaurant, you don't go the shrimp costs me $0.60per piece at Walmart and vegetables costs me $2.00 per bag (salad) and calculate things this way. At the end of the day, you'll go out of that restaurant with a bill of $80 for a Salad, Chicken + some side dish and maybe some desert. But all that could be bought in Walmart for only $10. Why are you paying $80?

    Same reason goes here. You do not expect to say... I want this equipment, that technology, this and that but at the end of it all say "Oh yeah, by the way Bandwidth is cheap" so I guess I do not want to pay extra for that.

    Totally makes not much sense in it. Everyone is in it to earn.
    Aaron Ong
    Dedicated Servers - 100TB Servers - 100Mbps Unmetered Servers - Web Hosting - CDN Network
    Servers in Central, East/West Coast USA, EUROPE and ASIA
    Welltodo Century
    - www.welltodocentury.com

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by aodat2 View Post
    I'm not trying to hijack this thread or something. But if you think of it, your reasoning is totally false OP.

    If your reasoning is that Bandwidth is cheap now-a-days, then are you expecting the CDN operators to give it to you at around $0.02/GB? Same reasoning here with your example up top. It's just simple logic, when you go into a 5 star exclusive restaurant, you don't go the shrimp costs me $0.60per piece at Walmart and vegetables costs me $2.00 per bag (salad) and calculate things this way. At the end of the day, you'll go out of that restaurant with a bill of $80 for a Salad, Chicken + some side dish and maybe some desert. But all that could be bought in Walmart for only $10. Why are you paying $80?

    Same reason goes here. You do not expect to say... I want this equipment, that technology, this and that but at the end of it all say "Oh yeah, by the way Bandwidth is cheap" so I guess I do not want to pay extra for that.

    Totally makes not much sense in it. Everyone is in it to earn.

    Totally right, and how about that same restaurant offshore? here 1 Mbps in our Datacenter cost to us 150$/month!! wow
    Offshore Hosting & High Privacy in Panama
    Cloud Servers & Shared Web Hosting | Daily Backups | 99.9% Uptime
    www.OffshoreRacks.com

  18. #18
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    Jul 2007
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    well.. in that case I'd rather to go Subway and get a great and healthy $5 sandwich Which is actually why Subway just surpassed McDonalds in the number of franchises.

    On a more serious note... I'm right

    Look here, 10TB of bandwidth INCLUDED with any dedicated server plan:
    http://www.hostgator.com/dedicated.shtml Cheapest plan is 2GB RAM, 500GB HD and Intel Xeon 3460 (Quad Core). Not bad specs at all. So all that with 10TB of bandwidth is $174 / month.

    I think with someone like birdhosting.com 10TB bandwith would probably cost me several hundred dollars ALONE. Without anything else. I don't know how much it would run me exactly but I'm scared to think of how much it would cost there.

    Another example: Cari.net offers 32.4TB INCLUDED with any server. https://www.cari.net/bandwidth

    Rackwire offers Unmetered bandwidth with all plans. http://www.rackwire.com/dedicated/

    SingleHop: 10TB bw included: http://www.singlehop.com/

    And I could go on.

    I think those who own their own datacenters or somehow achieve economies of scale when buying bandwidth from providers can pass on those savings to consumers. And those who don't get good deals on bandwidth themselves obviously are not able to price bandwidth competitively to customers.

    Come on guys, if bandwidth cost much more than dirt, could Youtube be profitable? Ok thanks
    Last edited by vader2; 05-15-2011 at 04:31 AM.

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