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07-08-2010, 10:54 PM #1Junior Guru Wannabe
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Servers Being Held Hostage by XO because of Hoster.
I am / was a customer of Advanced Network Solutions, Inc (this guy) and they are renting space out in the XO facility in Oak Brook, IL. I was colocating 2 servers with ANSI and I really need to get them back as they have very important data to me on them.
I guess Advanced Network Solutions, Inc have not paid their bills for the last 2 months and owe XO around $50,000 and now XO has cut off services and is holding my equipment as hostage even though I am a innocent 3rd party in this and can prove it, this doesn't seem to matter to XO.
Is there anything I can do to get my equipment back?
Thanks, Mike
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07-08-2010, 11:01 PM #2Web Hosting Master
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You could try contacting XO and pleading your case, but no guarantees. Unfortunately you're in the position of being a little fish in a big pond, but it never hurts to try.
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07-08-2010, 11:01 PM #3Web Hosting Master
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I guess you should try contacting them directly and see what they can do.
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07-08-2010, 11:04 PM #4Snoork Hosting
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XO will probably not release any servers until the Advanced Network Solutions pays for the overdue fees. Your best choice would be to get in touch with Advanced Network Solutions and discuss if you will be able to get your servers back.
If they say that you won't be able to get your servers back, then you really can't do anything with the parties except bring the issue into a court. If you can prove that those are your servers, you have much better chance getting your servers back.█ Snoork Hosting - Enterprise Servers | DDoS Protected Network
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07-08-2010, 11:13 PM #5Junior Guru Wannabe
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I did try contacting XO and they are the ones that are denying me my equipment and I can prove 100% that I was just a customer of the Advanced Network Solutions, Inc and that I do indeed own the hardware. I even have receipts.
Also Advanced Network Solutions, Inc is now ignoring me. I think it is only one guy anyways and his name is Timothy Belau.
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07-08-2010, 11:45 PM #6Aspiring Evangelist
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I'd suggest meeting with a lawyer and discussing your options. If the servers and the data on them are truly valuable to you, then by all means at least go in for a consultation with a good lawyer.
If it's your equipment and you can prove it then XO probably won't have a leg to stand on. But unfortunately it's standard practice for colocation providers to seize equipment when bills are not paid.Last edited by Mike12King; 07-08-2010 at 11:49 PM.
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07-09-2010, 06:47 AM #7Web Hosting Master
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Solicitor/Lawyer really is the best bet here. AFAIK they shouldn't be able to hold a lein over your equipment if you can prove that you own it - their gripe is with ANS, not you and the kit doesn't belong to ANS.
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07-09-2010, 11:11 AM #8Web Hosting Master
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Dont jump the gun with a lawyer. Contact XO again and try to reach the highest person you can. You may be talking to some low end support guy who either has no authority to make such decisions, or may just be being a prick. Lawyers arent cheap, try the company a couple more times before you shell out some money.
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07-09-2010, 11:29 AM #9Snoork Hosting
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07-09-2010, 11:55 AM #10Aspiring Evangelist
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Agreed. Especially with a company like XO that is much larger. You'll end up waiting forever.
I'd suggest talking to any of the site techs, if you know them. Assume they must have dealt with this before. Maybe they can offer some guidance on who to call internally to plead your case.
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07-09-2010, 12:01 PM #11Disabled
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Your case actually lies with ANS - if the terms and conditions you agreed to through ANS didn't state that your servers could be taken then they cannot hold that against you.
You can quite literally demand your servers back from ANS which means they then need to get their heads together and sort it out.
Otherwise - get a good lawyer and persue to court.
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07-09-2010, 12:26 PM #12Web Hosting Master
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Not quite true. XO can say and enforce that if you want XO themselves to pull the hardware. However, if the owner or an authorized representative of the owner walks up to XO with all proof of ownership, XO has to release the hardware. If they dont, they open themselves to lawsuit. XO doesnt have an agreement directly with the equipment owner, thus a court would judge that XO had no legal right to prevent removal of the equipment by the owner.
That's what the management of the building that Alpha Red was in learned pretty quick. XO is a great company that does it's best to keep people happy. I cant imagine they wouldnt work with the equipment owner who is trapped in the middle. However, you also have to keep in mind there are two sides to every story, and we only know one side here. XO may have a reason that is outside of what's been told here.Last edited by Webdude; 07-09-2010 at 12:29 PM.
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07-09-2010, 01:05 PM #13Retired Moderator
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Have you offered to pay the portion of the bill related to your equipment to get it out? It may have already been paid by you to ANS but you may need to make payment directly to XO to get it if it is that important.
Please tell me you had backups though that are offsite. That would mean you can wait it out by restoring to a rented server if needed.
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07-09-2010, 01:31 PM #14Web Hosting Evangelist
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Honestly, your first conversation needs to be with an attorney. It may be as simple as issuing a demand letter (relatively inexpensive). Since your local, let me know if you need a reference that is familiar with colocation agreements.
-Tom
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07-09-2010, 01:36 PM #15Web Hosting Master
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I had a similar situation happen to me last year after i showed invoices that proved the servers were mine i was about to get them out of the facility.
The hard part is finding the person in XO who can release your servers once you prove they are yours.
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07-09-2010, 01:59 PM #16Aspiring Evangelist
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Hi,
Your going to have several problems trying to get your data:
1. Since you aren't a direct customer of XO they have no way of knowing which servers belong to you. This may be further complicated if your provider did not label hardware in a sane manner.
2. You need to prove the servers are yours. If the servers belong to your provider but you were leasing them your vary likely screwed without the assistance of your provider. Gather as much information as you can to identify the servers and provide it to the DC.
3. Making legal threats should be avoided as long as possible as support will likely just forward you to the legal department. Gather what information you can first. Record your conversations with the DC.
4. Take a lesson and use off site backups.Common sense is not so common.
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07-09-2010, 02:39 PM #17Web Hosting Master
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He racked up 50 grand in expenses in 2 months? Sounds like he needs to take a look at the books....
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07-09-2010, 02:41 PM #18WHT Addict
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The problem is not with XO but rather with Advanced Network Solutions, Inc. I do know that if XO did take it to court already for the money owed the court would not allow the release of any machines until after it gets settled with both those parties. You, however can fight your way against Advanced Network Solutions, Inc since they are the ones who technically are to blame for this and have not paid their bills and have taken your money and machines.
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07-09-2010, 02:42 PM #19Web Hosting Evangelist
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Lawyer. spend a couple hundred on a letter of your intent to sue them if property not returned. Provide proof of documents.
This is your business and they are holding equipment that is yours. Once explained to someone higher up, they will surely send your equipment home.
Or sue them.
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07-09-2010, 03:32 PM #20Junior Guru Wannabe
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I am paid in full to Advanced Network Services already but there is no way I am paying any of his XO balance, It was at $54k and now is at 35K.
Also I do own both the servers and even have the receipts and records for them and I also labeled them as well but like a dummy I have the backups on both servers mirrored and was actually about to implement offsite backups but I didn't get a chance. It didn't cross my mind that the guy would not pay his bills. I should of got on the backups asap as my site is valued around 200k.
I have been in contact with his XO sales rep (the only one I can get info from) and I guess he has made one payment yesterday and has sent the rest of the amount today but it wont post until tommorow and hopefully I will be able to get my equipment monday.
Mike
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07-09-2010, 07:21 PM #21Newbie
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This has nothing to do with XO buddy, and isn't XO's fault, and it isn't XO's obligation to return the servers to you - because you aren't XO's customer... your ANSI's customer. I don't even think XO can legally release the servers to you because you are not their client.
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07-09-2010, 07:59 PM #22Junior Guru Wannabe
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Yes but I can legally show I own the servers and was a customer of ANSI. I don't think they can hold onto my hardware that they don't own and ANSI doesn't own as I don't owe them (XO) anything. This is not even getting into the data on the servers and the operating systems (win2k8) that are registered to me.
Also ANSI did or tried to give / get permission from XO to let me into the datacenter and get my only 2 servers but XO denied it because ANSI is in default and another thing it is wrong to hold a innocent 3rd parties equipment hostage because the middle man (ANSI) didn't pay you. This practice needs to be changed as it does no one any good.
Like I said though, XO has told me that ANSI has sent a payment for the rest of the balance and it should post tommorow and that I should be able to get my equipment first thing monday otherwise I will have to do like everyone suggested and hire an attorney.Last edited by Mike343; 07-09-2010 at 08:14 PM.
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07-09-2010, 08:27 PM #23Web Hosting Evangelist
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XO cannot legally hold equipment owned by third parties. It's no different than if they (ANSI) had leased hardware and placed it in the XO DC. The owners of the leased equipment can show up, present proof of ownership and XO has to either let them have the equipment or face prosecution under criminal and civil law.
I'm sure XO is fully aware they had no right to deny the OP access to his hardware (assuming he presented them with proof of ownership) and chose to go this route in the hope it would somehow apply pressure on ANSI to pay.
Whoever made that decision at XO made a very, very poor choice and exposed them to liability. If I were the owner of XO someone would be looking for a new job.
If you have further problems consider calling the police local to the DC and filing a report. It's cheaper than an attorney and will probably work faster. You can also go to the DC with your proof of ownership, call the local police and get your hardware immediately.
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07-09-2010, 09:13 PM #24WHT Addict
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07-09-2010, 10:00 PM #25Web Hosting Master
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