I am a very accomplished software engineer, multimedia producer, and business entrepreneur and have been working professionally in these areas for over 15 years. I have also been self-employed working as an internet business consultant since 1996. My latest career sounds very promising, but it's not.

My problem is that regardless of my skills, experience, ideas for new online businesses, and my efforts to implement them, my attempts have ALWAYS been thwarted by useless web service providers (WSPs), specifically web hosts, with unreliable and nonfunctional network services, unprofessional and incompetent technical support, and even unethical and corrupt businesses practices.

At many times over the last 6 years I have seriously thought about throwing in the towel and going back to work for 'da man' just because I have NEVER been able to find a web host that has been able to deliver the goods as promised. I constantly feel like I am fighting technical fires by finding and correcting MANY of the WSPs' own technical problems and serving as my own tech support for their systems. It would be great to find a WSP that will actually step up to the plate to be responsible for and correct their own faults. Because I am constantly having monitor my WSPs' systems to see if they are down (which they usually are), as well as having to move my sites and services from one bad host to another, these poor and unreliable WSPs have kept me significantly stagnant in my efforts to be successful online, rather than allowing me to spend that downtime as the 'creative genius' that I know I am capable of being.

For the record, I have had better experiences and uptime with free hosts rather than pay hosts -- while my web guests usually have to put up with the occasional banner or popup ad from these free hosts, at least they can get to my sites without other interruption, such as a server or a backbone being down. These free sites usually rely on the advertising revenue from the ads, so they cannot afford to be down. I cannot say the same for ANY pay host -- they get their monthly or annual fee from the customer and then act apathetically to whether or not the services are actually delivered.

And just to show I am not simply ranting, here are some examples of the poor internet services and sometimes unethical business practices I have experienced with some pay WSPs...

host: media3 (media3.net)
when: Oct 1996 - May 1998
problems: unable to register domains accurately or timely resulting in loss of domain names; excessive downtime; billing for services not rendered; tech support requests gone unanswered; rude customer service.

host: ci|host (*****.com)
when: Jun 1998 - Jan 2000
problems: excessive downtime; poor and rude technical support and customer service; charging credit cards for hundreds of dollars worth of services not requested or provided (aka fraud); refusal to provide invoices for services charged; maliciously suing prior customers and employees, including myself for $100K (which got thrown out), for speaking out against their company practices -- they are very vexatious litigants (look it up) -- and I will gladly expand on the last complaint. I hate those ^&#$%!

host: rapidserver.com (aka irides.com, soloserver.com)
when: May 2000 - Jan 2002
problems: poor technical support; excessive downtime; services promised but not delivered; online help that does not refer to any current services; fraudulent billing to closed account; threats to pursue malicious actions against customer's credit rating with credit bureaus.

host: icdsoft.com
when: June 2002 - July 2002
problems: immediately sold and/or provided my email address to spammers; FTP services did not work -- could not upload sites; no responses from technical support; technical support manager (boss@suresupport.com) finally replied after conveniently waiting until the money-back guarantee period was over -- she stated I didn't know what I was talking about and to not use their services again -- not very professional or even friendly -- and who without a complex calls them self 'boss'.

registrar/DNS/email: namesdirect.com, mydomain.com, and mailix.net
when: Jan 2001 - Dec 2002
problems: a *great* provider of DNS and related services until they became affiliated with namezero and dotster a few months back -- now the technical support is unresponsive, the functionality of their services are poor and intermittent, and most recently they exposed ALL of their customers' data including credit cards (http://msnbc.com/news/849290.asp?0bl=-0) ... I also know who 'Peter' is in the article and he told me there were more exposed credit cards than the 180,000 that were listed in the article ... their most recent transactions from Oct 2002 to the present were also available. So namesdirect/dotster was also passing the buck in that article by stating they don't used Authorize.net anymore -- doesn't anyone own up to their own faults anymore? Check you credit card statements and notify your banks if you used them!

host: wisehosting.net
when: Nov 2002 - present
problems: nameservers not responding -- request for hosted domains returned as unknown host; mail being bounced back because of nameserver probs; removed only working backbone and now the network is struggling for air; support requests sitting in queue for over a month and still no resolution to very simple problems; promises since Dec 20 to have network back up and running within 24 hours -- still sites, services, and email are intermittently accessible. Every support request has been responded to, but little to nothing has apparently been done to fix the problems.


My Status Quo...

I currently own around 50 domains for several of my own businesses and projects, and also have a small and select group of clients for which I perform web design, application engineering, and web site administration. I am looking for a reseller package similar to the one offered at my current host (Cpanel/WHM, 1Gb space, 12Gb transfer, unlimited domains & subdomains, standard Linux web server features, etc), but obviously with a competent and reliable web host, if there even is such a beast.

To you successful web designers and applications engineers out there: consider yourselves very lucky, because your competition (me) is constantly being kept from actively competing against you by these incompetent WSPs. If you are up for the challenge, why don't you refer me to a good web host and I'll see you at the top.

And to any decent web hosts out there: If you feel that you can revive my faith and confidence in the web hosting industry, then I dare you to post a reply - and don't bother if you're just trying to get another sale and you already know that your services suck. If I receive no replies from any WSPs, I will assume that they ALL are worthless -- and the free hosts and a corporate desk job will definitely be calling my name soon.

Sincerely,
"the Granite Mouse"

Originally posted by GraniteMouse
And to any decent web hosts out there: If you feel that you can revive my faith and confidence in the web hosting industry, then I dare you to post a reply - and don't bother if you're just trying to get another sale and you already know that your services suck. If I receive no replies from any WSPs, I will assume that they ALL are worthless -- and the free hosts and a corporate desk job will definitely be calling my name soon.

I'll reply on those grounds...to try to revive your faith and confidence. Search long and hard, and ask lots of questions. I find it hard to believe that one could spend so much time trying to find a suitable provider these days? I pose that as a question because it seems, to me at least, that the reliable and accessible hosts are getting easier to spot nowadays.

Cheers

Gary

First of all, I will acknowledge that there are a lot of incompetent hosts and fly-by-nighters out there. You are absolutely right on this issue. However, I don't think it's fair to pass judgement on web hosts in general just because you've had a series of bad experiences. If you've had as many bad experiences as you claim to have over a six-year period, you should shoulder at least part of the blame yourself for not having done your homework on the host before you picked it. There are many professional, competent hosts out there (especially on this board) that would be more than happy to provide you with the level of service you seem to expect on the surface. Mind you, you appear to be one of these insatiable customers who no host could please no matter how much effort he/she tried to put in. My own personal recommendation is that if you feel this strongly (and I suspect you really don't), then open up your own web host and compete with the very same web hosting companies you seem to hate so much.

However, if you don't choose to go this route, then I would advise 1) posting in the correct forum (the web hosting requests form) and seeing who responded, then getting impartial reviews from those of us who have used them in the past before you jump in.

I am, by the way, one of your "competition" as you'd put it. And the reason I haven't recommended a host isn't because I don't know of one that would likely meet your needs. It's because as a businessman and salesman, I know there's nothing worse than a customer whose ego overrides his better judgement and I have too much respect for the host I'd recommend to force them to have to deal with you and the baggage you'd bring.

Hi GraniteMouse:

Welcome to WHT. Well, you certainly seem to have had your share of problems with hosts in the past. It doesn't surprise me that you are so cynical toward the industry as a whole. However, I firmly believe you have just not managed to hook up with the right host.

IMO, WHT has many top notch hosts as members who can satisfy your needs. Although I could give you a pretty good "short list", I won't. That's because I think I should only recommend someone with whom I've done business. In the last year, I've had a few bad experiences with a few hosts, so I won't mention them. But for the last 4 months, I've really enjoyed dealing with my current host - www.prioritycolo.com . Very good service, good uptime and reasonable prices. Personally, I can't ask for any better than that.

In this particular forum (Web Hosting Forum), rules dictate that a host cannot offer their services to you directly. But as a satisfied customer, I can certainly share my personal experience with you.

You can have a look at them, do a few searches here to see what kind of reputation they have, and perhaps give them a try. Or not. I just thought I'd give you the heads up on one of the good guys...

Good luck in your search.

Vito

Welcome to WHT. I partly agree with what you wrote. I agree with the content but I disagree with this beeing all the WSP's fault(s). WebHosting is a screwed up business and it seems that you have been attracted by cheap webhosts mostly. Bad choice. Personally I would never trust a host that asks for a yearly fee or "5$/month"... it is bound to go crap.

A common rule on how to pick a reliable host is to look into his existing clientel.

Hello GraniteMouse,

I finally became a web host because I was sick of being scammed - or more to the point, constantly having to assist my relatives and friends out of the nightmareish situations they'd gotten into. I agree that there have been, and likely continue to be, people who are eager to grab the money and run. It seems to be easier with this generation because people don't know how to shop for quality web hosting services.

However, we're not all scum, out to rob you of your cash, or contemptuous of your lack of knowledge in our particular area of expertise. Those of us in the hosting industry are fighting the double stigma of competition with these same crap hosts who offer what seem to be amazing deals; and the once-bitten-twice-shy exasperation of people like yourself who tend to err on the other side of the ledger. I'm not saying that you don't have a right to be upset; but just like people who come on to any forum asking for highly technical assistance without having the intestinal fortitude to do at least a minimum of research of their own first, your making blanket judgements and posting with a combatitive tone will win you no adherents.

If a host - indeed, if any business - abrogates their stated terms of service, report them to your state's consumer affairs department, the FTC, whomever's address you can find to mail a letter. If a car dealership gave you shoddy treatment, would you stick with them for two years then take your business elsewhere, only to explode years later? Be constructive, not pointlessly attacking. Make your complaints known immediately, and in such a way that positive action will result from it. You have to be a responsible consumer, as well. One of the irritating things that I've heard around this forum, and from one relative of mine, was "Oh, no permanent damage was done. I don't want to spend the time filing a consumer complaint, dealing with all that baggage. I'd rather just cut my losses." If people have this opinion, then they can't really be to cheesed off when the hosting industry is dominated by so many ersatz used car salesmen.

And when you do get to the point that you post in the Web Hosting Requests forum, try and edit out any tone of a chip on your shoulder - or all you'll get is responses from companies who are eager to sound nice, but will treat you like crap as soon as your payment is cleared and you're beyond the 30-day satisfaction money back guarantee period. What you put out will partially determine what comes back at you.

Lesli

GraniteMouse, perhaps you should have found this place sooner and it may have saved you a few headaches. Live and learn. I did.

I am looking for a reseller package similar to the one offered at my current host (Cpanel/WHM, 1Gb space, 12Gb transfer, unlimited domains & subdomains, standard Linux web server features, etc), but obviously with a competent and reliable web host, if there even is such a beast.
I am using ClookHost and they are great www.clookhost.com/hosting/resellers

My support tickets don't hang for ages, longest time I have ever had to wait was about 1 hr, and they fix things fast. They also have great communication to their resellers, if there is a network problem, outage, etc resellers are notified by their forums, almost as it happens.

Sounds like it may be time to get your own server.

Maybe you should consider buying a Dedicated server instead of a reseller account. With 50 domains you should be able to afford something reasonable.

Get your own server and then you have total control over your software/setups/etc. Just make sure you get one in a good data center because it sounds like with your luck you'd no sooner get your server perfect and the network would go down :D

If you are looking for zero down time, you are going to have to dig a little deeper in your pocket book.

If you don't mind the banners, stick with the free hosts. And keep moving.

I'd also suggest getting a dedicated. As I have a feeling that no host, in your price range, would live up to your expectations. Down time happens.

This has inspired me to write a letter to the computer industry all because of my 56k modem failing.

Where do I post? WHT? Or should I contact the manufacturer?

Originally posted by TheGAME1264
If you've had as many bad experiences as you claim to have over a six-year period, you should shoulder at least part of the blame yourself for not having done your homework on the host before you picked it.

That's your ASSumption, but please note that ALL hosts had been thoroughly researched to best of my ability. Please also note there was no known negative info in 1996 about media3.net, in 1998 about ci|host, and in 1998 about rapidserver.com (whose services were actually good until the irides.com/soloserver.com merger in Dec 2001 -- they fell apart and started processing fraudulent credit card charges after that).

And based on user comments in WHT, they LOVE icdsoft.com -- lucky them -- icdsoft.com were literal jerks to me.

Although I do see there are plenty of downtime comments about wisehosting.net in these forums. But as a newbie to this forum, I was unaware of those until today. Yet many other online forums, newsgroups, and web designers that I researched happily promote their services with a smile. So obviously not all research and experiences are equal, with mine being at the bottom of the barrel.

One common thing about my negative experiences (minus icdsoft.com who screwed up right off the bat) is that the services were great for short amount of time and then they fell apart. There is no way I could have known that their services would get shotty AFTER I signed up with them. My timings with these hosts have obviously been unlucky.

Originally posted by TheGAME1264
My own personal recommendation is that if you feel this strongly (and I suspect you really don't), then open up your own web host and compete with the very same web hosting companies you seem to hate so much.

Not interested. While I have the skills to do so, I am more interested in using my creative talents rather than administering other peoples' networks -- I thought I made that clear in my first post. And besides, the web hosting industry is too cut-throat with an already bad reputation. Again, I'm not interested in associating my name with it.

Originally posted by TheGAME1264
However, if you don't choose to go this route, then I would advise 1) posting in the correct forum (the web hosting requests form) and seeing who responded, then getting impartial reviews from those of us who have used them in the past before you jump in.

Even a newbie can read! :) I shouldn't have to quote this to you, but this forum is for "Discussions on all aspects of web hosting including past experiences (both negative and positive), choosing a host, questions and answers, and other related subjects."

I was trying to convey my experiences with the web hosting industry over the last 6 years. Please read the other 98% of my comments before any 'advisement' on where to post. My request for a provider was almost rhetorical -- I will post to the other forum if I really expect a reply for suggested services.

Originally posted by TheGAME1264
It's because as a businessman and salesman, I know there's nothing worse than a customer whose ego overrides his better judgement and I have too much respect for the host I'd recommend to force them to have to deal with you and the baggage you'd bring.

Oh, a salesman are you - can you spell HTTP? (slapping myself for replying to you) Thanks for not recommending any of your services -- I am getting the feeling you are part of the reason I and others have so much baggage.

GM

Originally posted by GraniteMouse
. . . . . . . . the free hosts and a corporate desk job will definitely be calling my name soon.

Sincerely,
"the Granite Mouse" That sounds like a good plan. It is quite clear how you feel about this industry. The only way for that to change would be from a long relationship with a host that meets your needs. I don't see that happening in this thread.

flaming aside, SWR and others bring up a good point.

if this is critical to your business (which it appears it is) perhaps now would be a good time to re-evaluate the business plan, and up the budget for infrastructure.

i'd like to think in any age (pre/post dot com) that $50 for a webhost wouldn't guarantee a lot of anything at all, good reputation or not. if this is the one downfall of your business, spend a little money to make some, sink $200+ a month for a dedicated server, consider the overhead as insurance. look at the providors around you, physical proximity may be a good thing for you to consider if you're more of a hands on person, or would like the ability to "personally" communicate with your host.

and hey, i apologize for the negativity you're facing here, if i can be so presumptious to speak for some of the others, i think, although we may not know you, the meat of your initial posts largely falls into the "why can't i get top notch hosting for $10" trap which we've heard ad naseum.

Thanks for you response!

Originally posted by living_media
If a host - indeed, if any business - abrogates their stated terms of service, report them to your state's consumer affairs department, the FTC, whomever's address you can find to mail a letter.

I completely agree! And I wish more people that were screwed would do that. But it can also backfire when are dealing with someone who is corrupt and unethical. Please note that I complained to the Texas Attorney General, the Tarrant Country District Attorney, and the Fort Worth BBB -- and in return I got sued for $100K by everyones' favorite, ci|host. It was a frivolous lawsuit and got thrown out. But they even sued the BBB for taking the complaint.

BTW, this is a warning, too: ci|host is suing ANYONE who has made a formal complaint against them. How do I know? 1) I got sued more than two years after filing the complaints, 2) several of my online associates who have complained about them have also been sued, and 3) I simply requested the court dockets from Tarrant Country and it pulled up countless court cases involving ci|host and the prior customers, employees and business partners. They are clogging the court system so bad that one of my clients from my ci|host daze was on jury duty for the first time in his life and couldn't be on the jury because it was a ci|host case (btw, he sat through the case anyway - it was a prior employee suing them stating they promoted a very hostile work environment - he won).

If you are a prior customer of them and have made a formal complaint, I would already be getting my documentation ready for trial. They will get theirs in the end though.

GM

Originally posted by i am a
and hey, i apologize for the negativity you're facing here, if i can be so presumptious to speak for some of the others, i think, although we may not know you, the meat of your initial posts largely falls into the "why can't i get top notch hosting for $10" trap which we've heard ad naseum.

Apology accepted, although I wasn't offended by anone -- I expect a little trash to be talked in these groups! :)

But please note: Not once have I talked about money or cost in my posts (except for ci|host's frivolous $100K lawsuit against me). Why do you guys think I want something for nothing? I am willing to pay if the uptime and support is there... but it's not. And at the same time, if someone guarantees X amount of uptime, then that's what I should get, regardless of cost.

GM

And at the same time, if someone guarantees X amount of uptime, then that's what I should get, regardless of cost.
Without a SLA a uptime guarante its worthless. See http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=773490

So let me get this straight: You, the 'creative genius', decide to waste your precious talents and time to make a post bashing the same industry that you directly rely on to provide you with a service that you can use in turn to keep your customers happy. Yet in the same post you make a very direct hosting request to the same people that you just slammed, claiming it to be rhetorical.

At this point, I would like to commend any host that even bothered to make an offer to this individual. It takes some real guts to stick your head into the proverbial lions' den.

Regarding the hosts you've named, and your comments about not being interested: why not do as other people, including myself, have suggested, either resell your own server with someone that you can trust (which I suspect at this point is highly unlikely, since you seem to be rather cynical toward the industry in general) or get into it yourself? Yes, I know you're "not interested" in using your alleged talent on adminstration functions. So hire someone. There are many qualified technicians out there (some of whom may even well post on this board on behalf of hosting companies whom they work for) who you could hire to maintain the server and keep an eye on while you do the creative thing.

As far as your selection of hosts goes: hosting companies are like everything else in the computer world in general and as such are subject to mass scrutiny and criticism. It is, as you quite correctly mentioned, a very cutthroat industry. Are there hosts that lowball on price and offer inferior service? Unfortunately, yes there is. Does that mean, however, that every host is out to make a quick buck selling inferior products and services? Absolutely not. And much like everything else, there are three sides to a coin; yours, theirs, and the truth.

Having not heard theirs yet, I decided to look at the last two sites you mentioned (ICDsoft.com and wisehosting.net) and in ICDsoft's case, at least on the "sold email" issue, their privacy policy seems to make it very clear that this is something they don't do. It certainly isn't ambiguous on this issue (now they could be lying, but I'd say it's more likely that you used an email address for something else in addition to signing up as a customer somewhere in that rough time period and from there it got sold).

As far as wisehosting.net goes, I personally would not have selected them as a host but I would have to say that you're just as much at fault for choosing that host as they are for whatever they've done to you. If a hosting company doesn't even bother to spell-check its own site, that generally is a good indication of how they will treat you as a customer (for those who don't know what I"m referring to, click on Wisehosting.net's "Special offers" page). I believe that it's possible that they treated you poorly; however, I also believe, as I did initially, that you didn't do your homework.

And as far as your last paragraph to me is concerned, I am not a host, nor have I ever been involved with a hosting company on any level other than that of a customer. As a customer, I have had good experiences, and I have had bad experiences. Does that mean I believe the web hosting industry is full of blood sucking vampires who just switch names? No. And since I'm a voice (albeit a very small one) that contributes to the reputation of the web hosting industry, that implies that the web hosting industry isn't all bad.

And as far as your name being associated with this industry goes, I only have one question: who are you, and what makes your opinion so important? I've never heard of you before, and I'm sure very few other people have. As Lesli so accurately put it, you're someone with a very big chip on his/her shoulder and you need to take it off before you can reasonably expect anyone to accommodate you and your needs.

Originally posted by SpiritAu

Without a SLA a uptime guarante its worthless. See http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=773490

Yes, a dishonest and unethical website host WOULD probably think their own written and published guarantees are worthless. Those are the people I am trying to avoid. Do you support the act of making guarantees with the intent of not honoring them?

GM

It's not hard to understand where you are coming from, GaniteMouse, as we've all gone through the same experience in different areas. I have made comments myself, on how the Web Hosting as an Industry, needs to clean up it's act somewhat or be tarnished with the same brush "Used Car Dealers" used to be. They may still be actually as I haven't bought a used car in a long time.

One person cannot know everything about computers, that is a fact. It is a wise choice to get good at one or a few things, mediocre at others, and leave the rest to people who should know what they are doing -- or at least, what they are being paid to provide.


With that said, allow me to pass on some tips & guidelines that have should help give you or anyone else, a handle on sorting the wheat from the chaff -- for a Web Hoster.

- do the research
a month or more on checking out a potential Hoster is not unreasonable so search "before" a Hoster is needed and always have a backup provider previously checked out.

- follow the $1.00 GB rule
monthly payment should be more than $1.00 GB for each GB of monthly Data Transfer -- $10 a month should not get more than 10GB of monthly Data Transfer.

- see if a money back guarantee is offered
like a spare tire, you'll find out how good it is if/when you need to use it -- but at least it's good to see one mentioned.

- send an eMail (and how hard is it to find an eMail address on the site?)
as long as the response is timely (in your opinion) how your question(s) are answered will tell you lots.

- does the site have a Forum
not a requirement but again, something that's nice to see -- throw in a few of your own posts and see what happens.

- check here at WHT or wherever (by doing a search on their name) for previous posts
do they actually contribute or just make offers, complaints, mostly negative posts, etc.


On the flip-side, we Hosters often hear complaints about lack of service from somebody who has $4.00 a month Hosting package with unlimited everything and can only shake our heads. We "know" there are going to be problems, lots of them and of all kinds. I know this doesn't apply to yourself, but it may help to educate others in your situation or with the same feelings, who read this thread later on.

As a business person yourself, you understand fully the cost of doing business and fixed costs that apply to any service. Too often though, people are wanting $100 service (or services) for $1.95 and there are those foolish enough, to think they can provide it. If it looks too good, it usually is.

Having "been there, done that" I wish you and everyone, a successful search and all the best.

LOL, spit in everyones face and then ask for their help/feedback..


Ohh well.. I'm not sure they offer Cpanel, but with your technical expertise i'm sure you can handle installing it yourself.. But for the uptime and a managed service since you dont want to waste your talents on mundane tasks as that, my best guess would be for you to check out www.rackspace.com.

They are pricey, but i believe most will agree that have used them, that they are worth it for their type of services.. And it seems like you need someone with their expertise..

Or you could check out www.wemanageservers.com .. Once again, not the cheapest, but they will be able to make sure your servers are up and running to your spec's leaving you to whatever it is you do best..

Originally posted by GraniteMouse


Yes, a dishonest and unethical website host WOULD probably think their own written and published guarantees are worthless. Those are the people I am trying to avoid. Do you support the act of making guarantees with the intent of not honoring them?

GM
While my business does not offer service credits as such, the uptime record speaks for itself. PM for a link, as forum rules forbid me from posting it.

Originally posted by TheGAME1264
So let me get this straight: You, the 'creative genius', decide to waste your precious talents and time to make a post bashing the same industry that you directly rely on to provide you with a service that you can use in turn to keep your customers happy.

It's very difficult to keep *my* customers happy when the services I rely on never work as promised. And it is also very difficult to be creative when all my time is spent researching the next host that I will need to transfer my services to.

Originally posted by TheGAME1264
you seem to be rather cynical toward the industry in general

You got that right at least. I have had way too many bad experiences to just accept that most hosts are honest. Maybe I'm unlucky, or maybe I didn't notice the pitfalls until it was too late -- either way, 'cynical toward the industry' is actually an understatement in my case.

Originally posted by TheGAME1264
Yes, I know you're "not interested" in using your alleged talent on adminstration functions. So hire someone.

Good point. When I find a decent host, I'll hire someone to manage it.

Originally posted by TheGAME1264
in ICDsoft's case, at least on the "sold email" issue, their privacy policy seems to make it very clear that this is something they don't do. It certainly isn't ambiguous on this issue (now they could be lying, but I'd say it's more likely that you used an email address for something else in addition to signing up as a customer somewhere in that rough time period and from there it got sold).

FYI: I use a UNIQUE email address for EVERY entity on the internet, as I did with WHT and as I did with icdsoft -- in the format of icdsoft-com@mydomain.foo. It is a very easy way to track who is spewing your email address around. I started receiving spam to the address I provided to icdsoft.com within 24 hours of providing it to them -- it could have been an unethical employee of theirs harvesting and selling addresses or a hack job on their customer data -- but the address was provided to icdsoft.com only at registration time, and to no one else on any other occasion.

Originally posted by TheGAME1264
If a hosting company doesn't even bother to spell-check its own site, that generally is a good indication of how they will treat you as a customer

That's a good point and actually quite funny! Although, when I signed up with them a month ago, I do not remember them having a Special Offers page as I was looking at the resellers page which seems to be fully correct in spelling. I think I would noticed the blatant spelling mistake of BANDWAITH. :)

Again, the ships seems to sink when I get on board -- maybe my next career should be as a 'secret shopper' seeing as if any problems are going to happen, they will definitely happen while I am on the receiving end. Based on that theory I could be of great help to ISPs/WSPs trying to find holes in their customer support.

Originally posted by TheGAME1264
And as far as your name being associated with this industry goes, I only have one question: who are you, and what makes your opinion so important? I've never heard of you before, and I'm sure very few other people have.

Don't care if you know me or not -- I'm not in this for publicity or I'd be tagging my signature with my domain name like every other schmoe. The "Granite Mouse" is obviously my handle. And as I stated previously I have worked in this and many other related industries for many years. I have both good and bad experiences to share that could be beneficial to many. And obviously I expect some level of privacy with these posts or I would just say that I'm Joe-Gets-Screwed-Everytime from CompanyX.

GM

Say what you want, but sign it with your name. Expecting responsibility from others begins when you ASSume your own responsibility.

It takes a little research and a few decisive steps to separate the weeds from the flowers in the web hosting business.

Like most, I've been burnt a few times in different hosting arrangements, but I don't blame the industry. I blame the people that screwed me over.

In ANY industry there are the good the bad and the in-between. You just have to do your due dilligence, seek opinions from those you trust and make your best judgement. Since I learnt that lesson, I'm pretty confident that if I was in the market for hosting I wouldn't make the same mistakes again.

The Search button here on WHT can be a great starting point too - once you've got a few in mind.

GraniteMouse, if you want to become a secret shopper for the web host industry - and can do a good, thorough, completely objective job - more power to you. This would mean some serious work on your part, as you would need to forget all the crap you've been through with previous hosts...which appears to have been considerable. Angry vituperative evaluations will do as much good as evangelical evaluations: they will have only a limited success. The web hosting industry is full of dross and (as I said before) ersatz used car salesmen as well as quiet people who just want to do a good job; and we don't really have a legal way to clean up the industry as of yet. We have folks like ci|host, who I know as a not-so-solid deal; and I only joined this forum three months ago. We have smaller hosting companies being bought out by the bigger ones all the time - I privately wonder if that isn't the reason some of your hosts suddenly went south, they either had a sudden growth spurt or were bought out by some Brobdingnangian company who only sees the dollars that a client can bring to them. We rely on word of mouth, on positive customer reviews, on good press...but we have many prejudices to fight against, justified and unjustified. "Only be hosted with a company that owns its own datacenters." "If they don't look techy, they don't know what they're doing." "If they look too glitzy, they don't know what they're doing." "If they look too techy, they won't help you if you don't know what you're doing." "They're all just out to steal your money." In the face of all of these, all we know how to do is keep going until we keel over and die (metaphorically or, in a few isolated cases, literally.)

For those of us who are listening - and granted, it's almost like preaching to the choir at this point - do you, as an aggrieved customer, have any suggestions? Not merely a laundry list, but a "this is something that has attracted me in the past" or "this is something that has made me decide against going with a particular host" Couch them as truly constructive criticisms, or as neutral statements. Give us what you want, from a client's point of view. Assume that nothing is too trivial to include, assume that nothing is obvious. It might turn out that the web hosts still reading this thread adheres to 95% of the principles you outline - but it will be here, and stated, for future forum searchers to find.

And everyone quit it with the veiled insults, please? It does us absolutely no good. Yelling, carping, and snarking will be roundly ignored, no matter whom it comes from. I don't want to detect the aroma of urine from yet another pissing contest wafting gently across the screen.

- Lesli

Originally posted by living_media
And everyone quit it with the veiled insults, please? It does us absolutely no good. Yelling, carping, and snarking will be roundly ignored, no matter whom it comes from. I don't want to detect the aroma of urine from yet another pissing contest wafting gently across the screen.

:) Thanks, Leslie. Your eloquent, level headed and unbiased comments and have definitely been very helpful to us all. Thanks again for taking the time to wade through my many disparaging comments to actually try to see where I was coming from.

Thanks also to the ones who posted and PM'd me with comments of support -- there are some very kind and helpful people at WHT.

BTW, there are two points from my original message that seem to be ignored by everyone -- probably because my ranting and generalization of the industry took center stage. I will restate them in two new threads so they will be noticed, as I feel it is very important information that needs to be shared.

Best Regards!
GM

Originally posted by SpiritAu

While my business does not offer service credits as such, the uptime record speaks for itself. PM for a link, as forum rules forbid me from posting it.

Maybe you misunderstood my exact question -- which was, "Do you support the act of making guarantees with the intent of not honoring them?"

GM

Originally posted by GraniteMouse


Maybe you misunderstood my exact question -- which was, "Do you support the act of making guarantees with the intent of not honoring them?"

GM
Yes I support it. I guarantee that a customers site will be up 99.9% of the time which has been met so far.

However my TOS state that I don't give service credits like every other host here.

Most SLA's aren't worth the paper they aren't printed on.

And that's not because people don't stick to the agreements they make, but because the details of the SLA are described in the small print which many people don't read.

So it's not that they promise and don't deliver, it's that what they promise, and deliver, has no value.

SLA's are a response to the "fitness for purpose" implied warranty.

Those big bandwidth companies with their big contracts didn't want customers to be able to get out of the big contract by claiming that the service was inadequate, so they defined standards and remedies which would keep the contract alive despite the downtime.

Like: 99.999% of the time you will be able to reach your designated gateway on their network and if you don't, and that condition continues for more than one hour then, you will be entitled to a 1% refund of your monthly fee for each 24 hour period that this happens in.

Pretty useless for a guarantee huh?

Originally posted by GraniteMouse
I am a very accomplished software engineer, multimedia producer, and business entrepreneur and have been working professionally in these areas for over 15 years. I have also been self-employed working as an internet business consultant since 1996. My latest career sounds very promising, but it's not.
....

host: ci|host (*****.com)
when: Jun 1998 - Jan 2000
problems: excessive downtime; poor and rude technical support and customer service;
...

And to any decent web hosts out there: If you feel that you can revive my faith and confidence in the web hosting industry, then I dare you to post a reply - and don't bother if you're just trying to get another sale and you already know that your services suck. If I receive no replies from any WSPs, I will assume that they ALL are worthless -- and the free hosts and a corporate desk job will definitely be calling my name soon."

Do you take the trouble to contact the host employees(support) , before opening an account with them?,

If so, you will have to notice quickly the inefficiencies of some "hosting companies".

There is much of good hosting companies on this forum, just search if they have complaints of their customers.

At least you did not deal with TIM! :)

Originally posted by GraniteMouse
...

And to any decent web hosts out there: If you feel that you can revive my faith and confidence in the web hosting industry, then I dare you to post a reply - and don't bother if you're just trying to get another sale and you already know that your services suck. If I receive no replies from any WSPs, I will assume that they ALL are worthless -- and the free hosts and a corporate desk job will definitely be calling my name soon.

Sincerely,
"the Granite Mouse"

If you're looking for a reliable host, you've come to the right place. WHT is the best place on the web to get unbiased recommendations - plus most of the competent web hosts hang out here.

After reading the list of hosts you've used, I'm not at all surprised that you've had the problems you have. Some of them are notorious on WHT for having poor service, downtime, and rude techs.

Take some time and read through the posts you see here. You'll quickly discover who are the hosts that are recommended, and those to avoid. In fact, the "Search" function here will be your best friend. Before you consider a host, search for it here and read everything you find. Go in to the next host eyes open.

Take care,

Brian

Greetings:

"And to any decent web hosts out there: If you feel that you can revive my faith and confidence in the web hosting industry, then I dare you to post a reply - and don't bother if you're just trying to get another sale and you already know that your services suck."

There are good and solid hosts out there. This is not a forum for sales, but there are several companies that have unbelievably high satisfaction ratings with customers who have been with them for far longer than any of your longest stays.

I've been involved in the industry since 1995, providing direct services to the industry since 1996.

From my experience, a lot of bad experiences people have tend to boil down to two things:

1. Not doing one's home work including developing an expectation list, developing a short list, AND calling people on the short list.

2. Not checking references via PHONE calls.

3. Going with the cheapest providers.

On #3, I've seen countless times over the past 7.5 years people who state their budget is $x (where $x is below reason), continue to find hosts that charge $x or less, continue to complain that they are not getting the service they need for those hosts. And never once getting it into their brains that maybe, just maybe, if they expand their budget beyond $x they may get a host that actually works for them.

Thank you.

Sorry to see you've had such a problem finding a worthwhile host. When not hosting my own, I've been fortunate to find what I consider to be perhaps the best shared hosting company around in Need A Dot Com (needa.com).

They're not cheap, but they've got an actual staff of employees, you can call them on the phone and talk to a real tech support person, they've been around for at least seven years, use only reliable equipment, and own racks in a superior facility with a top-flight network (InterNAP).

The elements I've listed are essential to you, as a customer, in finding a good quality host. Forget the super low-cost providers, unless you can find one who provides all of the above. I seriously doubt they can because it costs a lot of money to provide those things, particularly a full-time staff of 4-5 people like Needa.com does.

I don't work for needa.com, but I sure do appreciate what a great company and outstanding product they provide and I take any opportunity I can to share that appreciation.

Good luck!

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