Hi,
I was wondering if any of you could give me comments on http://www.can-host.com I'm really thinking about moving my sites there as on their $35 a month plan they allow multiple domains per account and seems really great but I want your comments before going with them. So maybe if I could have some of your comments it would be nice. Thanks.

Sincerly,
Michael Mellinger

They seems like a strange company to me Can offer a limited package for $35 put an unlited one for £19.95 with two diffrences domain pointers and not able to resell. I'd stay away in fact ive learnt my lesson stay away from anyhost that says *UNLIMITED BANDWIDTH* always ends up in tears

Eddie Dalladay
webmaster@fthosting.co.uk http://www.fthosting.co.uk
Fast internet and Webspace Access.

------------------
Signing off for now Eddie

Actually, I'm not going with the unlim plan I'm thinking about going with the limited $35 a month plan. So are there any other comments from people?

Thanks,
Michael Mellinger

I see you did not understand my post sorry. A company who can offer solutions like that is a stay away host. Nothing is unlimited and when i say unlimited on my website i mean a 1,000 as i cannot see anyone in there right mind giving out 1,000 emails on the packages we offer.

My Advise find another webhost.

See, but I want other opinions because in my mind your opinion would be kinda biased as you are a host yourself, right? Also, they can say they offer unlimited but in reality we all know that a host has it's limits and I'm sure they do too....they have this offer to get more people to sign up with their hosting. The thing is that I'm not going with their unlimited plan so it wouldn't matter if they couldn't provide unlimited. Sorry if this sounds bad, but I mean this host looks good to me, it's just that I would like more opinions....

Thanks,
Michael Mellinger

Michael,

You have missed the point so much as to be in a different galaxy. The point is that any host that advertises unlimited bandwidth is not to be trusted. They have chosen lies over honesty in order to attract new business. it also means they ar elikely to have many disappointed and disgruntled customers, many to be ex-customers, when they discover the truth. These people will suffer when their accounts are disabled when they hit those very real limits.

It doesn't matter if you chose a limited plan. The fact that the company you are considering advertises an unlimited plan means their ethics are as low as the depths of the Mariannas Trench and are not to be trusted.

Does that make it clear enough? Find a host that is honest and you'll be better off.

I know what he's saying and what you are saying it's just that I havn't found a host like this that offers so much and has such good support and offers multiple domains on an account. I'm not with them yet, but I don't see what's wrong with going with then. I mean look at how many hosts offer unlimited bandwidth....there are literally tons. And just because those hosts have it doesn't mean they are bad or anything...Sorry if I'm sounding rude, it's just that I really want to go with this host and now I'm getting bad comments about it.

Michael

Originally posted by mellinger:
I know what he's saying and what you are saying it's just that I havn't found a host like this that offers so much and has such good support and offers multiple domains on an account. I'm not with them yet, but I don't see what's wrong with going with then. I mean look at how many hosts offer unlimited bandwidth....there are literally tons. And just because those hosts have it doesn't mean they are bad or anything...Sorry if I'm sounding rude, it's just that I really want to go with this host and now I'm getting bad comments about it.

Michael

How can you say they have good support if you're not with them yet? If you KNEW for a fact that they offer good support, then why are you asking about them here?

There are NOT literally tons of companies offering unlimited bandwidth. Cyber companies have no weight. You obviously don't know what literally means any more than you do about selecting a good host.

You are not gettign bad comments about that company in particular, just as a (low) class of companies that promise what they can't deliver. You sound more inclined to defend them because you want them to be good rrather than finding out if they are.

Why even bother asking for advice with an attitude like that? Do whatever makes you happy then. Just remember an old adage, "There are none so blind as those who will not see".

An updated one "ignorance is bliss (until your account gets disabled". Remain blissful and go in peace.

Originally posted by mellinger:
...Sorry if I'm sounding rude, it's just that I really want to go with this host and now I'm getting bad comments about it.

Michael

So then, if you've already made up your mind, and aren't open to the criticism you requested, why are you wasting everyone's time?

If you really want to go with them but don't want to hear anything negative, THEN GO WITH THEM.

True, and that's what I've done. Sorry for wasting all your time....

Michael

May he get what he deserves. Here's what they define as unlimited transfer

"Unlimited accounts are allowed approximately 15 gb/month of transfer to stay within our
usage policy."

Their site has all the usual BS buzz words to attract the uninformed and foolish.

"A fool and his money are soon parted."
Benjamin Franklin

"The only crime is stupidity." Oscar Wilde

Duster, I know that's how much transfer they allow, and right now my site will never go above that 20 gig transfer limit, and if it does you can buy more gig for a reasonable price. I'm sorry you guys don't feel the same about this company.

Michael

I think the main problem people have is when hosting companies claim to offer services that, in reality, they don't have. It speaks volumes about a company's willingness to be upfront with their customers instead of trying to shade a semantic argument onto one aspect of their service. Either unlimited bandwidth is offered or it isn't. An xG transfer allowance, after which one will be charged, is not unlimited, *even if* most people will never reach that limit.

Annette,
I agree with you and everyone else about the whole unlimited thing, but I don't think just because they don't live up to *unlimited* doesn't mean you shouldn't go with them, because there is a lot more to a host then just the data transfer, like support, features and stuff like that. I mean I could venture to say that at least 1/3 of the hosts that are around have unlimited data transfer in their features list. Does this mean they aren't any good? I hope not....oh well, that was just my .45 cents.

Michael Mellinger

Hmm. This may very well be a philosophical difference between us. I won't host with someone who promises one thing and delivers another, because it leads me to suspect that they are not being honest about another aspect of their service, even if at the time I am not aware of what that other aspect might be. That unknown aspect is enough to keep me wondering,and who needs that when I'm trying to keep a site going? YMMV, as always.

Yeah, everyone has their differences :-) The thing is though, they are being honest to an extent. They say on thier policies page that they only allow up to 15 gig of transfer for their unlimited plan. Also, the thing is that I'm not on their unlim plan...so I know exactly what I'm getting and I'm not having to worry if their will be a limit because I already know it. Oh well, I guess this all pointless since we do have our differences.

Michael Mellinger

Watch for this fool in a week or so, they will be on here crying about how they got ripped off, and their site was always down, and they can not get their money back. And they will probably be bitching about you nice people who tried to guide them down the right path. (It is better to be thought of as a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.)

DC

Michael,

you've already made your mind up (and had befgore you asked your question), so please don't waste any more time trying to defend a company you know nothing about. My additional comments were not directed to you.

"The thing is though, they are being honest to an extent." Honesty has no limits. They promise unlimited bandwidth on the opening page and define it as very limited elsewhere. That is NOT honesty. If they lie about one thing, they can lie about anything.

Annette and I and many others here, all more knowledgeable and experienced that you, have learned not to trust companies that lie about anything.

Just remember that no one can make a fool out of you without your cooperation.

Now please, go with them since you had already decided to and stop defending them until you have some actual experience with them. Some people need to be burned before they learn to avoid touching fire.

I can tell you one more thing that bothers me about some hosts - they obviously haven't taken the time to proof their site before offering it to the public. I'm going to include Can in this category ("Mp3 contence is not allowed..."? "...a powerfull presence.."? "...establish your presents on the Internet.."? Who writes this?). A host that offers a supposed unlimited plan AND who can't be bothered to properly spell unlimited has some serious issues.

I think ALL HOSTING COMPANIES should remove the words unlimited bandwidth and unlimited webspace because there is no such things as unlimited for both of them. My advise is don't go for any host that put these 2 words on their site.

They can always charge $X on your credit card saying oh u had went over X amount of bandwidth/webspace and we are going to charge you.....

Lots of people got burned in believing these 2 words.

If you don't listen to our advise you will get burned...

trust us. We won't mislead you.


[This message has been edited by Gordon (edited 04-29-2000).]

Fine, I'll do exactly what you say and stop posting comments. I have found it to be unresourceful since you guys keep name-calling and everything else. Just because I go to a host I trust, doesn't make me a fool and it shouldn't make anyone else a fool who does too....and DC, I won't be back in a week crying about how I've had downtime and stuff like that. In fact I'll probably be back praising the company if anything.

Michael Mellinger

I was not aware that the word unlimited had such bad "karma" about it.

We are a new company (4 months) and picking up extremely fast. The last thing we want to do is give people the wrong impression about us.

However from what I have seen in comments about the unlimited plan. I believe we are going to take the advice of many of the people here. And set limits on the plan.

I do thank everyone here, that gave there honest option, It surely does help us provide a better service.


[Jason Berresford | CEO]
[Can-Host Networks]
[http://www.can-host.com]

I don't think they were trying to put you down at all. It's just, many of the people here have seen what happens with the 'unlimited' hosts. For instance, one of the more vile ones that finally got canned was Galaxy-web. Unlimited everything for 9.95 or 19.95 a month. Can't remember now. The service was pretty much great until you actually signed up. I'm not going to go into detail about that since it'd probably spring up some people's passionate hatred for g-w. ;) Just be careful about who you choose and make sure you go to every place possible to get info on them before handing over even a penny.

Michael -
I certainly wouldn't go away - in fact, I think that people can disagree on things without being disagreeable. But willful ignorance is unaccepable from anyone (not that I am saying you are acting in such a manner). Just know that several people here have had bad hosting experiences or have analyzed enough host claims to understand when a host is being less than forthcoming.


Jason -

Good idea on removing the "unlimited" references. I've seen hosts that give their bandwidth allowances and then explain in the FAQ or somewhere what it really means (and several I've seen explain why some hosts offer such things). One more thing I'd recommend is that you go back through your site and check out the spelling/grammar. Attention to those sorts of details go a long way in convincing people that your service is worth what they'll be paying - even if they're only paying $5/month.

I actually use that host under the unlimited plan. I beleive that when they say unlimited, it means "under reasonable limits". I agreed not to go over 15 gb of transfer per months. As for teh web space, I heard no one complaining about lacking web space or anything. Lets say a hd is up to 32 gb... do you know anyone who will ever have 32 gb of data on a web site and stay under 15 gb per month? I beleive their advertising is ok and hasnt disapointed me _yet_ and im with them for 2 months.

Olivier -

It isn't really a matter of individuals relating their happiness with a host. It's a matter of some of us pointing out that when a host advertises "unlimited bandwidth" that it really does not mean what they say. Strictly speaking, under the law (here in the US and in other countries) that's false advertising, or an attempt to mislead consumers. It's how businesses get in trouble with their customers and with the law. It also serves to harm the reputation of other businesses like them, even if those other businesses don't engage in the same sort of advertising.

Michael,

The reason you have found this site unresourceful is that your mind was already made up by the time you asked your question. You didn't want the truth, you wanted confirmation that you were doing the right thing. When you didn't get it, you objected and began defending a company you know nothing about from practical experience. A mind is like a parachute, it only works if it's open. Yours isn't. Nobody has been calling you names, though some of us have pointed out the folly of your attitude. You have an obvious comprehension problem, so, along with your closed mind, it would be a waste of time to try to educate you.

Jason,

The only thing anybody can judge your company on initially is what you say about yourself. Unfortunately, you have chosen to say many of the wrong things. I took a look at your site and you seem to have copied all the buzz words that many other sites use, all designed to mislead, deceive and defraud. I would suggest you go over your entire site, page by page, and use understatement and honesty as your guide. If it's not true, don't say it.

You don't need a dictionary to know that unlimited means without limits at all, not 15 gb, not 50, not anything. If you promise unlimited bandwidth, IT'S A LIE! The 99.95% uptime guarantee is another questionable item. Many hosts promise it and many fail to deliver on it. They rate themselves for it. so they can hardly be trusted.

You may very well turn out to be a good hosting company, but based on what you say about yourself at present, no experienced site administrator would believe so. You don't stand out from the crowd by following it.



[This message has been edited by Duster (edited 04-29-2000).]

Duster,

Your comment about not being able to judge your actions upon what other people say is 100% wrong.

There is no way to tell how people will react to offers until they actually react. Of course educated guesses can be made, but those guesses are never 100% accurate.

As for what you said about the 99.95% uptime. Obviously you have not had a reliable host. As it is not hard at all to have that.

Anyway, I'm not here to insult anyone indirectly or directly, but to defend our actions. We are taking steps to make the company better. And along with everything else, it takes time.

Time will tell which companies are successful and which are not. I don't believe that a successful company turns a blind eye to the publics comments, and there for we do not.

Have a good night.


[Jason Berresford | CEO]
[Can-Host Networks]
[http://www.can-host.com]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jason Berresford:
Well, Jason, I can see that you and Michael were made for each other. You both have a severe comprehension problem. What I said was "The only thing anybody can judge your company on initially is what you say about yourself." I didn't refer to what other people might say about your company. Let me translate it for you: If we take what you say at face value and you are lying, we tend to think you can't be trusted. Those who have learned that "unlimited" is a lie would not consider your company. If, on the other hand, there are no lies, no hidden terms, and full disclosure is made, we might tend to respect, even trust, your company. If you use lies like "unlimited" and we judge you as not to be trusted, whose fault is it? The lie is yours, not ours.

Your statements are indefensible. I know nothing of your actions as I have no experience with your company, nor will I ever have. Nor would I ever recommend anyone to it. It bothers me that the CEO of a company cannot understand simple sentences. This is not meant as an insult but as a statement of fact. One cannot communicate effectively when the other person's understanding is impaired. It sounds like English, but we may as well be talking two different languages.

You also shouldn't make assumptions. Uptime is not a problem I've had with any hosts, though I have read (here and elsewhere) about many others who advertise 99.x% uptime yet are down for weeks at a time.

A lot of financially successful web hosting companies treat their customers abysmally, and success is not one of the factors often discussed here. Honesty and reliability are. As a four month old company, your reliability has yet to be proven. Your site tells us what we need to know about your honesty. Look up "unlimited" in a dictionary.

You may as well quit while you're behind. Without changes to your site and a track record, you cannot possibly prevail at this time.



[This message has been edited by Duster (edited 04-29-2000).]

Jason, what kind of connection are you hosted on?

(I can't find it anywhere on your site)

DC,

To answer your question:

Each server is on a 512kb/sec connection with 3 megs burstable.

The backbone, is point to point Fiberoptics to our main Bandwidth provider, then out to Sprint Canada.

Well duster, you do have one thing right, I am going to stop posting to you. You don't seem to want to discuss things properly. Yet insult someone trying to provide you with information.

I was personally taking your suggestions seriously until you bring in some childish insults. However no worries. Have a good day, and it was a pleasure to talk with you.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jason Berresford:
[B]Well duster, you do have one thing right, I am going to stop posting to you. You don't seem to want to discuss things properly. Yet insult someone trying to provide you with information.

If I said something unflattering, it's only because it's true. It's not my fault you don't understand the subject of a sentence. Was it an insult that I pointed that out? I don't think so. There is nothing childish in pointing out a communications problem. I don't seek to insult people as it would demean me, not them, but it is a fact that many people just don't understand the simplest sentences. It is not an insult to point that out.

You have not provided any information other than to continue to assert that you are a reputable company. That's opinion, not information, If you are, time will tell. However, your web site at the present indicates otherwise for reasons familiar to many of us.

It seems further communication with you is pointless, like trying to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of time and it annoys the pig.

[This message has been edited by Duster (edited 04-30-2000).]

What I don't get, is why these hosts don't follow the practices of the largest hosting companies in the world, like OLM and Verio. None of the large hosts offer unlimited bandwidth.


They would rather copy the smaller deceitful companies and try to trick the uneducated people into joining. Anyone with logic and common sense would understand that there are no unlimited bandwidth plans anywhere for any price.



None of the dedicated server plans i've ever seen have unlimited bandwidth, yet hosts giving you a tiny piece of a dedicated server feel they can pretend to offer this??!! And customers think they can get it, why do they think people get dedicated servers for, if there are unlimited plans on packed servers?

If everyone had atleast half a brain, no one would be able to offer such unrealistic claims, but unfortunately, idiots rule.

What I don't get is why some hosts seem determined to shoot themselves in the foot by acting in a manner that is, shall we say, less than professional. No matter how badly customers and observers act, there is no excuse for a business to react defensively in a churlish manner when people point out aspects of their service or advertising that are either dishonest or misleading (even if not intentional).

Annette,

You're completely right. Furthermore, your statement contains the answer to your own question. The reason some companies react so badly is that they are neither acting nor professional. In a way, I'm glad they do. It certainly makes it easier to distinguish which ones to avoid. We should be grateful for that. Sooner or later, the truth comes out. Some of them make it easier to find than others, even if unintentionally.

Hello everyone,

I see that a discussion was started around our unlimited bandwidth services. I currently am the Head Designer of Can-Host Networks. The subject you brought here has been the object of many discussions between our administration staff. I believe it is your discussion here that finally made us move our specification from the Terms & Conditions directly into our package listing. I beleive this helped clears things a little bit. Perhapse one should read Unlimited HD Space (wich was left behind) as Not monitored? I would like advices from you here to what you think would be the best wording to describe as many web space as the hd contain. And as many of you already knows, web sites take small space off large hard drives.

I would appreciate some answers and comments that you may have. I believe one can't know what is the best at first. I do believe that we will only become better if we have suggestions and help from those who went through what we are going through now.

As a final note, I would like to apologize for any weird english expressions or language mistakes I may make. As my name suggest, english isn't my first language and take some time to be mastered fully ;-)

Félix C.Courtemanche
Can-Host Networks
Head Designer

Felix,

It's really quite simple. If something isn't true, then don't say it. "Unlimited" means the same thing in French, English, and many other languages. Don't lie to or mislead any potential customer. "Unlimited bandwidth" is one of the biggest lies that hosting companies use.

It would help if you went through your site and looked at it from the standpoint of site administrators who had already been lied to and are dubious. Could you pass their scrutiny?

Another way to look at it, if your site was read by your mother, or a nun, and you would be rapped on your knuckles every time they came across something that wasn't accurate or fully disclosed, would you pass or not be able to use your hand for a week?

There's lots of advice on what to do and what not to do on this forum, from me and others. All you have to do is take the time to read it.

Here's one piece of advice I'll repeat. Given the lies and deception used on many web hosts' sites, don't use them as an example of what to do. You could start from scratch and answer every question you think a potential customer might have, and answer honestly and fully. It's as simple as that.

There is no such thing as "Unlimited Bandwidth" on our site anymore, as I stated in my previous comment. We are currently looking for the exact word that would mean "As much as there is available" (for hd space). Currently our unlimited account include as much hd as the user can dream of... and considering the fact no one can put non copyrighted material on our servers, it would surprize me to see someone eat up to 10 gb for a single web site :)

Now, you expressed your anger about this kind of "lie" and I agree with what you said. but again, can you find a better word to describe it?

I look forward to ear it.

You can still figure out a number for that can't you? If you have a 10 Gig HDD, and you put 200 web sites on it, then they are allowed to use 50 Mb.


You can't tell each individual client that they can use as much as the HDD allows unless there is only 1 client on that HDD.

There is some factors you are obviously not considering...
1- If you split all the hd in small piece for every sites you hos, you will obviously end with approximately 75% of free hard drive.
I would say that 75% of the used space on our servers is used by 2% of our clients, wich are under the Unlimited plan.

Thus, we can offer more simply by using these basic rules.

I had the impression of being somewhat polite when talking to you, but it looks like you are feeling you must attack and criticize instead of helping out.

No, I won't start a fight in here, I was just trying to find the word to describe that state that we are offering.

No, we are not following the crowd and no we won't do the same thing as the big host are doing (and they ask for an average prices twice as our)

Anyway, I hope you have no hard feeling and if you do, I would appreciate that you keep them for you. I am not forcing anyone to be hosted with us, I'm simply tring to find the best solution for everyone.

Oh well, it is useless I fear.

No single word that describes it comes to mind. You could say "as much space as you need". That would get the concept across accurately.

If you're really going to give them all the space they need, you might also want to write something in there about them not being charged for extra space they use. Most people will have looked through the pricing plans of quite a few hosts, and will have seen not only that many give a space allowance, but that they charge $x.xx per each unit after Y. If you're to be different, make sure it's clear.

How about this:

"Accounts are limited to xxMb as standard however your website may occupy as much space as you wish. If you wish your space allocation to be increased please contact us and we will do so at no extra charge"

That way you acknowledge that there is limited space on a disk but you will provide extra space as required

?

I like that Mark. I beleive I will link the "Unlimited" description to the bottom of the page with a description.

I can't really put it straight beside the descirption because of the way it is presented.

I'd like to thank everyonet hat took the time to answer to my concerns :)

Félix C.Courtemanche
Head Designer
Can-Host Networks

Originally posted by Mark Hewitt:
How about this:

"Accounts are limited to xxMb as standard however your website may occupy as much space as you wish. If you wish your space allocation to be increased please contact us and we will do so at no extra charge"

That way you acknowledge that there is limited space on a disk but you will provide extra space as required

?

I wouldn't use the term "limited" as it is contradictory and confusing in this instance. A slight change clears this up.

"Accounts are allocated xxMb disk space as standard. However, your web site may occupy as much space as you wish. If you wish your space allocation to be increased, please contact us and we will do so at no extra charge"

Hello,

Please, take a look at: http://services.can-host.com/?url=hosting

I linked the word "unlimited" with its definition at the bottom of the page. I beleive it makes things quite clear like this, but still, give me your opinion :)

Mark, Duster -

Good choice of wording there. It alleviates the uncertainty that tends to swirl around the whole "unlimited" issue.

I think Felix and his company are to be commended also for at least attempting to address the issues raised. I don't know about hosting with them yet but I'll be interested to see their next 6 months.

Originally posted by Nightflames:
I think Felix and his company are to be commended also for at least attempting to address the issues raised. I don't know about hosting with them yet but I'll be interested to see their next 6 months.

Me too. They made the mistake of using all too common terminology (that is fraudulent), but at least they have the sense and ethics to rectify that mistake and be clear on their terms. They are definitely to be commended for that.

You don't get a second chance to make a first impression and their old site seems to have given and impression inconsistent with their goals. The new one seems to be more reflective of that.

Thank you :)
I beleive we can only offer better services and grow bigger if we listen to everyone's advice, and yours were good.

I don't want to see all my hard work to turn into another TH (reading that thread made me think twice uh :)


------------------

-------
[Félix C.Courtemanche | Web Designer]
[webmaster@can-host.com]
[Can-Host Networks | http://can-host.com ]

Okay, see, it seems like you might not have had a lot of bad experiences with web providers before.

See, the problem is that there are a LOT of companies out there who will screw you. You might think "Oh wow! I'm saving xxx dollars and getting SO many more features!" But in three weeks, when the server goes down inexplicably for three straight days, and you get no reply from tech support (which may or may not be located in your own country... this is experience talking), you might be saying, "I wish I'd spent the extra $5.00 a month for the added reliability."

The point is: in cyberspace, you have to pay attention to the little clues in order to get an impression on who's reliable and who isn't. If a company promises unlimited bandwidth -- which is a completely irresponsible thing to promise -- it says that the company will lie to you and mislead you in order to get your credit card number. You ought to wonder how reliable they are in other respects when they make a claim like this.

A reputable that has a commitment to quality and professionalism will always be up-front with you. You have to pay attention to these clues. It may not appear to matter in the short term, but in the long-term, you'll have headaches galore.

(Speaking from experience, mind you.)

Matt

Hey there again.

Just an update on how my hosting went with can-host.com. The hosting was great. The support was great too. I have moved on from them onto a dedicated server as I had outgrown them. If anyone has any questions from when I was with them, just ask :)

Michael Mellinger

I must admit that I don't understand the link between these 1 year old messages and the message below.

Can anyone explain to me? :D

Originally posted by bigmattyh
Okay, see, it seems like you might not have had a lot of bad experiences with web providers before.

See, the problem is that there are a LOT of companies out there who will screw you. You might think "Oh wow! I'm saving xxx dollars and getting SO many more features!" But in three weeks, when the server goes down inexplicably for three straight days, and you get no reply from tech support (which may or may not be located in your own country... this is experience talking), you might be saying, "I wish I'd spent the extra $5.00 a month for the added reliability."

The point is: in cyberspace, you have to pay attention to the little clues in order to get an impression on who's reliable and who isn't. If a company promises unlimited bandwidth -- which is a completely irresponsible thing to promise -- it says that the company will lie to you and mislead you in order to get your credit card number. You ought to wonder how reliable they are in other respects when they make a claim like this.

A reputable that has a commitment to quality and professionalism will always be up-front with you. You have to pay attention to these clues. It may not appear to matter in the short term, but in the long-term, you'll have headaches galore.

(Speaking from experience, mind you.)

Matt

My first post.

I didn't see that there were several *pages* after the first few posts.

So there! :)