As you all know, there are a lot of people out there that hoard domains. I am willing to bet that most registered domains never even get used. Many don't even have a page holder.

Is there any way to force someone to give up a domain if they haven't used it in a certain period of time? It seems like ALL the good stuff is gone. I have tried to register names that I was almost certain no one else could possibly think of only to find that it has been taken. :mad:

No, unless they registered the domain name in "bad faith". And it doesn't sound like that is the case.

If I were you, I'd just wait. There are lots of domains which were registered in 1999 during the dot-com boom which will be up for renewal soon and I'm sure that some people will realize that it isn't worth holding on to hundreds or thousands of domains which they're not using.

Do you think the new TLD's will become as popular as the .com? Or, do you think the .com will remain the most desired TLD for some time to come?

I don't think so. Not in a while anyways. Because when you think of a domain (me anyways), the first thing that comes in mind is .com. Let me give you an example, if someone asks you "Hey, have you seen the MyBlueUnderwear site? Go check it out when you get a chance." When you get infront of your computer and you're gonna type in the URL, what's the first domain you try? Exactly!.. "MyBlueUnderwear.com".

I had a (chat) site in 1996 (and late '95) that I started up for personal use. For some reason, before I was even done with coding the scripts and finishing the site, someone from Webcrawler saw the site and thought it was great -- and put my site listed on the top of their suggested site's for months. Right before that happened, I had no interest in a domain, since I was fine with a sub domain for my site. I had already named the site "Chat Central", just for a generic name that worked for any type of subject. Well, after the site started getting popular, I decided to get a domain for it -- and what better than chatcentral.com? Well, I searched netsol and found it was registered about 3 months before I looked (by hotwired.com of all people) and I should have gotten it when I created the name -- oh well, too late.

So, I ended up registering another domain at the time (chathub.com), which I ended up losing because my ISP at the time said they paid for it and Netsol pulled it 3 months later and someone else registered it. Anyway, I had contacted hotwired about it and asked if they are going to use it, sell it, etc. since they still hadn't used it. I never got any response. I continued to do this on and off for a couple of years, as they _never_ used it and still haven't to this day, and no one ever responded. Then, a while ago (like a couple of years I think), Lycos.com merged with hotwired, or bought them out. Still no responses, still not being used. This domain has been registered since '96 and never used once!

I ended up trying every email I could for the last year, on and off, and I tried the numbers listed on the domain records for that domain, as well as Hotwired and Lycos. I either didn't get a response, left messages for people that were never there, or got a wrong number. If I did talk to someone, I was passed to another person or department, only to get a voice mail. I left short messages, to the point, asking what their intentions were with it, since it's still not up to this day, I want to know if they'll release it, sell it, or use it, left my name, number, email and I explained quickly that I wasn't one of those people that are trying to claim a trademark violation to grab it, but they surely didn't appear to want it.

So, the other week, I called again, got no one. I then emailed every contact I could find for hotwired and lycos and I pasted my email into their site's form mail. I explained again, that I am asking them to release this domain, since I've been running a site under it for longer than they've had this domain they've never used. I also said that it sounds to me like they registered it a long time ago and intended to do something with it, but lost interest or simply forgot... that they likely had so many domains, they just pay for their registration each year, even if they have no reason for them anymore -- and that they tell me their intentions with it, release it or sell it to me. I also asked that whomever got the email, to forward it to the person in charge of domain ownership issues, or whoever is in charge of that aspect.

I actually finally got a response from someone the next day at Lycos. The guy basically said he'll forward it to the proper department (which I assumed I'd never get a response anyway!), and he said: "At this point the domain is highly valued intellectual property. Given our business, it could conceivably be useful to us in the near future." Yeah, right. Basically, they are just going to never use it, but they don't want to let someone else have it, because it might be worth money.

Well, I got an email from the vice president of Lycos the next day, shocking, but the response was predicted! This, of course, was the expected response:

"With regard to your e-mail below, we would be interested in selling the domain name "Chatcentral.com" to you. The asking price is $100,000.

Please let me know if you are interested in moving forward with the purchase of this domain."

What a joke. This domain is not worth $100,000, and I wouldn't pay $10,000... I'd likely laugh at the thought of paying $1,000! Are these people stupid, or what? I mean, the domain 'buzz' has faded and people are finally realizing that domains aren't actually worth as much as people thought they were from all the hype -- it seems Lycos has yet to figure that out, or they are just thinking they might be able to pull it off. In fact, I wonder if this guy was just trying to get himself a $100,000 if I was stupid enough to pay it. Granted, it's a good domain name, but it's not that good, it's not like it's sex.com or something -- now, that would be worth $100K easy... The point being, it was just desired because of my site's name, or one of my site's. I can't believe how stupid people are, to think they can ask so much. Very _few_ domains are worth over the $15 a year they cost and it's ridiculous they ask hundreds of dollars, or even thousands in most cases, but $100,000?

These people have never used this domain, ever. I'm hardly even that interested in it, although I'd like to have it. I'd think hard and long before I'd even have paid $300 for it. I mean, there's plenty of other domains out there. I don't think chatcentral.com is much or any better than chatbase.com or chathub.com, and definitely not worth that much more. I think, even if they aren't domain squatters outright trying to sell the domain, that if they have been holding onto it for _six years_ without doing one thing with it and no sign they ever will, that they should be forced to release it.

I mean, I've asked them for years, I've been reasonable and after all this time, some dim wit is going to try and get rich off a domain they are only renting anyway, this isn't fair. I'm seriously considering on protesting this and taking action against them, just for the principal of it. I can easily prove I've had a site with that name for years, before they registered it and I might be able to get it. If I do, I'll be happy to sell it to Lycos for 1/2 of a $100,000. After all, if they are so confident it's worth that much, it should be an easy profit, right?

such is life, Tim, it is unfortunate, no?

i guess they're thinking in a few years when .com's are truly scarce, it will be worth something... hopefully a new system will come around where . anythings will be worthless... :)

and the dumb thing is, some stupid company which somehow gets venture capital will buy it for $100,000 or more, thus giving them reason to believe it is actually worth that... :)

I wouldn't want to be someone looking to register a domain name today for anything other than a unique brand name that is already established. The whole domain name issues is a morass of trouble and the major share of the blame goes to ICANN, whose ineptitude at responding, to , much less anticipating the needs of the Internet, should be a criminal offense. The people behind ICANN are one step above Darwin Award recipients. (http://www.darwinawards.com)

So many of the problems could have been prevented with some forethought and planning. Unfortunately, ICANN seems incapable of either and disproves the adage that hindsight is always 20/20.

Five years ago, when I was considering whether to create my diving site, I was checking for available names. I found most particularly desirable ones had already been taken, many by someone in town who obviously had no intention of using them (I think they were a marketing company of some sort).

I did hit on some likely possibilities and kept them in mind. I got busy building servers and such and didn't do much for the next few months. When I finally decided to do it, I found one leading choice that I had mentally discarded had been recently registered.

I was lucky. I still had a choice that rolled off the tongue and expressed what I wanted. I registered it and have kept it, adding the .net and .org versions last year simply because it was easier and cheaper than defending trademark violations. I've had a couple of those even without them having a similar domain name.

It's no wonder some people have had to turn to the ccTLDs (many of the .net and .orgs have been taken also) to get a name that isn't awkward or difficult to remember, even if it lacks the cachet of a .com

There are ways to gain possession of a domain name under some circumstances, though most would take some money (still considerably less than the exorbitant amounts some owners ask for them) and all would require careful thought.

While some names might be deeemed to be more desirable because some people might enter the name in their browser address section (such as webhosting.com), ultimately, the value is in the site rather than the name.\

Look at Yahoo and Google as two good examples of this. Yahoo is either an expression of joy or a derisive term. Google sounds like either an old time comic cartoon character (Barney Google) or something a baby might say.

Why didn't ebay choose ebid instead? For whatever reasons these 3 and many others chose their names, it's what they did with their sites that created any value behind the name.

To paraphrase the bard, "What's in a name? A site by any other name would do the same."

It seems to me there is more than one way to skin a cat. I am not a lawyer but from what I understand it doesn't matter so much if you have a "registered" trademark as how well a name is established in a marketplace.

If I understand this correctly, if Starbucks never bothered to register their name and I opened a coffee shop with the same name, they still would have legal rights.

On the other hand if Starbucks had a registered trademark but never sold a cup of coffee, and I was selling coffee with their name like it was going out of style, they couldn't touch me.

As I understand it, registering a mark helps but it isn't everything. A lawyer once told me that Disney will go after anybody. Why would a big corporation like that waste time on a small time copycat. According to him, it is because if they do not enforce their trademarks they will lose control over them.

I would think that Tim may have rights to that dot com due to the fact that he has established the name in the community (even if you do not have a registered trademark). As to not having enough funds to sue Lycos, why not sue them in small claims court? File the suit and then mail a news release to all the major news agencies. Even though it is a small suit that you may lose, it will draw attention to a problem that concerns everyone. From what I understand, small claims court is what the Internet is supposed to be - a level playground. I am told no one can use a lawyer in small claims court. It would be Tim vrs. Lycos and it's all fair play!

it's an internet-related name, they are in the internet business, good enough reason to hold onto it for possible future use.

they've owned it over five years now. case closed IMO.

Originally posted by Ron
As I understand it, registering a mark helps but it isn't everything. A lawyer once told me that Disney will go after anybody. Why would a big corporation like that waste time on a small time copycat.
Use of copyrights and trademarks without paying a licensing fee and royalites, protection of the Disney image, and a few other reasons.

According to him, it is because if they do not enforce their trademarks they will lose control over them.
That is no longer true. It once was, however, some years back.

The rest of your points are tricky. No two cases are the same and depend on the particulars and details. There's no easy way to give heplful advice in a general way when so much depends on specifics.

I am told no one can use a lawyer in small claims court. That is also incorrect. You would think it would be true and it would certainly be in keeping with the spirit of summary claims procedure. However, there are judges that will not hear cases in small claims court without both parties being represented by legal counsel.

It does seem to defeat the purpose of summary claims. However, it's not surprising. Almost all judges (in the U.S.) are lawyers and the U.S. legal system is definitely rigged in favor of lawyers.

Ron, this is true. I suppose it's just about how far I want to go. If they were using it or said they really planned to (not just because I said I wanted to), I'd never do that to them or bother them about it. Simply the fact that they are hoarding this, when it's technically never their property anyway, is just wrong in my opinion. I'm seriously considering taking action due to those reasons. If I lose, I lose. I mean, it's something I'd like to have and they've never used it, so. I may or I may not, but I might have a chance, sure.

Duester, I agree about the Yahoo/Google name issue. I've always had the same opinion. Unfortunately, most of my users know and recognize the name Chat Central and try, of course, to go to the URL of chatcentral.com. I look at it in the same way, just as I did when I tried to think of a name for my band. It's usually the site/company/person, whatever, that makes the name and makes it memorable. Due to the content of my sites and the different chat areas, it's a little more difficult to stap one singular name and a good, basic and general name never hurts.

Of course, we're also not talking about chat.com either, and I believe my current domain name is just as good. Some may or may not agree, but I made the site popular without a domain name in the first place, but it'd just be nice to get a domain that really suits the site, since it's not being used anyway. However, like I said, it's not even a good enough name to really push the issue, but Lycos' response just bothered me. Of course, they have their rights too, I just think the net would be a better place, if people were a little more fair and not think that every .com is worth $100K+.

:D
Tim and Duster can be good friends
:D

Originally posted by klisis
:D
Tim and Duster can be good friends
:D

But we are! Good ol' duster and I are the best of pals! :-) He's just playin' around with me.. don't believe his arrogant rantings, it's just all a big facade, don't believe anything you see, we're the best of friend's in real life.

I have never cared for scalpers. Ticket scalpers or domain name scalpers, they're all the same.

With domain name scalpers, however, there may be something that can be done in certain specific cases.

The following is entirely speculative on my part and I cannot say it will work. However, being familiar with U.S trademark laws and requirements as well as copyrights (originally out of intellectual curiosity and later out of necessity), and ICANN UDRP domain reassignment of ownership cases, I see where it might.

It is gambling of a sorts, but the stakes to get in to the game are low and the pot can be large.

Suppose Tim incorporated as ChatCentral.com and then sought to obtain chatcentral.com as Lycos' owwnership of it infringes on his trademark. Apparently (according to Tim) he had established his use of the name Chat Central, though they are common words (an important factor). Lycoins has not as they have simply retained ownership of the domain name (according to what I gather from Tim's statements).

It would be an obvious move by TIm to obtain ownership of the domain name chatcentral.com However, that could be irrrelevant to some points of the ICANN policies and law and it might work. Registering a domain name does not convey the legal right to use it. That is a crucial factor here.

Tim can apparently prove that Lycos has had the name and not utilized it. They have failed to establish any trademark claim to the name. By doing that first, partly done already, and reinforcing that claim by incorporation, he might wrest the name from Lycos. They would probably contest it in court, even if Tim tried the UDRP first.

I would advise consulting with an attorney knowledgeable about such matters (domain names, not just trademark law) first. Many do not charge for the initial consultation. It just might be worth the roll of the dice.

I'd enjoy hearing about a scalper getting fleeced.

Originally posted by klisis
Tim and Duster can be good friends
:D
Yeah, sure, I even have a couple of gifts for him.

One is some badly needed mouthwash (http://techcellence.net/files/bar2.gif) and the other is a really big snake to sleep with and keep him warm all over.

(-x-)

I don't know if there was something missing when the U.S. authorities first formulated policies on domain name acquisition but in the Philippines, the top 1,000 corporations were automatically protected by the dot.ph domain registrar in that brands/names that belong to the top 1,000 corporations can only be registered by them. I don't know if this is good or bad.

As far as domain scalpers slowing down because the dotcom craze had stopped, I doubt this because the other day, I tried checking my surname-- a very unique Filipino surname -- and to my surprise it has been registered just the previous day by, of all things, a U.S. based domain name hoarding company, domaincollections.com. This lead me to think that if this company (and others) kept on registering even unheard of and exotic names, then time will come that we will run out of dotcom domain names to register (if these companies will not be run over by events themselves).

Well, if Julia Roberts can grab her dor com from someone, why not me? :-) After all, her name it's a trademark or copyright and there's surely other Julia Roberts out there.

In serioussness... this is never a solid yes or no likelihood. There's nothing saying a company can't register and keep a domain. It's like someone renting property -- they don't have to use the building or land if they don't want to. However, that's a bad example. I do have some things in my favor, but some things are irrelevant that aren't in my favor. It's too hard to say.. I don't see a good chance of getting the domain, but you never know.

As for the words "Chat Central", alone might be subject to being too general, each by themselves, but together, it's not so general. And, I couldn't and would have had a reason to use chatcentral.COM for my site name, since it would have ruined any chances for return traffic. It's difficult to say or assume. I don't assume one way or another.

PS: Duster, for the last time, I'm NOT going to leave my wife for you... I don't love you _that way_.

Originally posted by Tim_Greer
[PS: Duster, for the last time, I'm NOT going to leave my wife for you... I don't love you _that way_.
How peculiar to bring that up. I suppose we know what's on your mind since you brought it up. That could explain your frustration and anger.

:D

Originally posted by Ron
Is there any way to force someone to give up a domain if they haven't used it in a certain period of time?
There is Ron, in certain specific cases. As I've mentioned elsewhere in this discussion, the manner and disposition of resolution of domain name disputes is contingent on the names themselves as well as other issues and no two cases are alike.

Just this week, while handling domain name transfers and registrations for a number of clients, I discovered two cases of trademark infringement. While my client didn't think he could get those names, I assured him he could, and he wouldn't even have to pay for his attorney to look at the matter. I advised him how to handle the situation and gave him enough information to deal with the matter from a position of strength.

The particulars of this case make the outcome inevitable. The particulars of others might mean you're out of luck, or may have to handle the situation differently.

There are no simple answers because this is not a simple issue. It is most complex.

Originally posted by Duster

How peculiar to bring that up. I suppose we know what's on your mind since you brought it up. That could explain your frustration and anger.

:D

Yes, you've got me, Duster... See, we can work it out. *wink*