Today I lost another one of the FDC servers I resell. I leased it to someone who made a hosting company on it and one of his customers spammed. As a result my server got cancelled by FDC :confused:

I paid setup fee + monthly fees for that server which are now gone and my client will charge-back for sure as "I cancelled his server". Makes me a loss of ~350$ and one server less and a client that will most probably post here soon and I cannot blame him.

FDC suggested I should "monitor" my clients and use "Anti Spam software"... well I don't disagree but when I lease a server to someone I cannot install software there and demand to have access to hsi server. It's his and not mine when I rent it out.

Also, let's say the anti-spam fails once... Is is NORMAL that your business gets killed cause Customer No 257 on you hosting server spammed? I mean that way a webhost can kill all of his competitors by just signing up with them and spam....

WHATS THE DEAL HERE??? Anyone?

FDC Strike Again :santa:

Originally posted by Darth
FDC Strike Again :santa:

You mean that others do NOT cancel your server becasue your client spammed (and you instantly removed him of course)?

Charge back FDC :D

Originally posted by The Laughing Cow
Charge back FDC :D

1) I have 11 (now 10) servers with them so I don't thinkthat would be in my best interest and also there must be a valid reason

2) No offence but could I please get the ADVISE I asked for and not useless remarks like this :(

Ask what software they use to monitor all there servers for spam?

RS has the same clause in their ToS. One complaint and they can pull the server. Yes, this does open us hosts up for deliberate attacks.

On their defense though, they will contact you the first time and give you 24 hours to remove the offending account. The second time there will be no warning.

Always make sure you have a tos that is just as strict on these issues as your providers. You say yourself you cannot do a chargeback without a valid reason. If you have the same terms as FDC in your tos as well then your customer cannot do a chargeback either.

It's tough on him as well loosing his company and his funds for the server in the process but...

The best advice is to find a provider that won't do this to you. You'll pay more for their services, I'm sure, but you'll savea heck of a lot more in cancellations, chargebacks, bad reputations, etc etc. IMO, it's worth it. Find a provider that frowns on spam but understands how spam works and is willing to work with you. Otherwise, you'll run into the same brick wall over and over again.

Pilgrim + allera:
Thank you for your replies!

Pilgrim: That would still mean that after the second time you get pulled. I would understand if it was the SAME customer but not in general. If you have a P4/1GB server it is very likely you have TWO spammers on board and not just ONE.

allera + all others: Could you please PM me with URLs of providers who so NOT ruin your business?

Greetings NocSol:

1. Ensure all of your server clients sign a written contract which includes some form of reference to your AUP.

2. Make sure your AUP is extremely strict on SPAM.

3. Do get to know your customers, and their indended use of the servers you sell.

If those customers plan on hosting others, ensure they completely and clearly understand that your AUP overrides any AUP they may present to their customers.

Make sure they completely understand that if any of their customers break your AUP, they will suffer.

4. The servers are rented by your customers, but they are your servers (sort of). So it would be ok to install software, and have it in your contract that the client cannot mess with the software.

Thank you.

Originally posted by dynamicnet
Greetings NocSol:

1. Ensure all of your server clients sign a written contract which includes some form of reference to your AUP.

2. Make sure your AUP is extremely strict on SPAM.

3. Do get to know your customers, and their indended use of the servers you sell.

If those customers plan on hosting others, ensure they completely and clearly understand that your AUP overrides any AUP they may present to their customers.

Make sure they completely understand that if any of their customers break your AUP, they will suffer.

4. The servers are rented by your customers, but they are your servers (sort of). So it would be ok to install software, and have it in your contract that the client cannot mess with the software.

Thank you.

1. Yes (did that)
2. Yes (did that too)
3. Very true and I suppose I am guilty of not doing this much
4. Well that is VERY bad for selling cause NOONE does that. Actually it should be a requirement but I will probably get the ususal "Oh, well then I will get a server from RackShack" answer :(
No offence against RS! Just a true spoken fact :(

<edit>
By the time I posted, my post became irelevant
</edit>

Yeah, you need to find a host that is willing to work with you as the customer. This usually means paying a bit more to get the customer service you need. Every host has a spam problem from time to time.

FDC and UC are everywhere on board.....
:eek:

Originally posted by freakysid
Every host has a spam problem from time to time.

Yeah well EXACTLY... It cannot be that when this happens they take away your server!! I mean to me it's just a server but to a host it could be hundreds of websites!! How do hosts survive? I really haven't thought about this before but now I am like "OMG, WTF" :eek: :confused:

Yeah - I really am so glad I signed up with United.Colo - even though I never used the server. It taught me what a world of difference there is between money grabbers who don't give a damn about their customers and reputable real service providers like Pwebtech.com

You have to ask yourself how do you want to treat your customers. What level of service do you want to provide your customers and then look for a dedi/colo host that provides you with that level of service and quality so you can deliver what you promise your customers.

This business isn't about running around trying to screw everyone for a few bucks. Any one who makes that the modus operandi of their business won't be around long term - guaranteed.

Why bother reselling servers? I've tried a couple in the past and I ended up burned on them as well. And your markup on a resold server is squat you can't make more than at most a hundred bucks or so a month off of one.

You end up holding the bag for too much responsibility and too little real profit.

Originally posted by Dixiesys
Why bother reselling servers? I've tried a couple in the past and I ended up burned on them as well. And your markup on a resold server is squat you can't make more than at most a hundred bucks or so a month off of one.

You end up holding the bag for too much responsibility and too little real profit.

Sad but true... couldn't have said it better... BUT
If I was a Web-Host and had 300 clients on a server and one would spam and then my provider would cancel my server what would I do then? That's even worse!

Greetings:

"If I was a Web-Host and had 300 clients on a server and one would spam and then my provider would cancel my server what would I do then?"

It depends on whether or not your provider told you this would happen if such an event occured.

If they did, then unfortunately, the onus was on you to make sure your customer understood.

If they did not, then their is legal recourse.

Thank you.

@ dynamicnet: well you are right

BUT since I am not a WEBHOST I am really curious what they all do if they are on RS or FDC or any "instant disconnect" company... take pills and pray??

I've never had a problem, any spam complaints I recieve are acted on immediately and I've never had a server so much as disabled for a short period of time at Rackshack or anywhere else.

I would say the problem is that FDC has a history and a reputation here. They may have had to agree to these terms in order to get a new connection.

Another provider with a better reputation about nuking spammers wouldn't have that problem.

BTW, who was the spammer?

First, as to FDC....they did allow anything and everything and lost their carrier, so only natural that they now overreact. Also, their customer base is one that just opens them up to problems. As I understand, you also have servers with HE. I don't think they would react as harshly.

Second....the anti-SPAM crusade is fast approaching SPAM in terms of the trouble it is causing. Blacklisting on the basis of single instances is taking place.

Third....as Dixiesys said, I have also never had a server shut down for even a minute due to spam, but I have also had a policy of suspending any spamming account immediately and terminating them immediately upon completion of research. And, you know what? They don't even complain or object, because they have been terminated so many times before and will be so many times more.

This is one time where I have to defend UnitedColo. When I worked for Ikiwi doing server mnagement we had a complaint that one of our re-sold servers had been spamming. Callum asked me to check on it and so I did. Not only did I find 4 spam websites (the ones after you click that link for the "free nude brityney spears photos"). I also found warez, irc and a number of other abuses. I told the customer and locked down his server. We then let him get his data off the server and then formatted it. We had a no-spam policy at all but atleast UC worked with us instead of just killing the server.

Heh, all this sounds like a case of Donhost.. searching for the smallest violations so they can kick you.

UCG was indeed very understanding especially with the case we had to deal with.

Originally posted by allera
The best advice is to find a provider that won't do this to you. You'll pay more for their services, I'm sure, but you'll savea heck of a lot more in cancellations, chargebacks, bad reputations, etc etc. IMO, it's worth it. Find a provider that frowns on spam but understands how spam works and is willing to work with you. Otherwise, you'll run into the same brick wall over and over again.

And how do I find a provider that "frowns on spam, but understand how spam works and is willing to work with you".

Do I review their terms of service? Or do I check spamcop or something?

Or is this all based on reputation? If so then I am in big trouble, because I am setting up a reseller account with one and have no idea how I will be liable if one of my customers spams.

I do not think that all of my customers should be punished.

Thanks,
Shasta

This is exactly what happened behind this story:

There was a bug with plesk not allowing any users to send mail, and plesk was contacted, but they had no fix yet and said just to enable mail relaying for the time being. So that was done. Then, the server was just magically removed from the network a few days ago. Just to find out that FDC pulled it because some big spam company figured out that server had mail relaying and screwed it over big time. The only reason FDC even knew was because someone reported it to SpamCop or something like that and they e-mailed FDC. I think this is an unbelievably crazy policy on FDC's part. They knew the entire story behind this BEFORE they just deleted the server. I think it's stupid in the first place to just remove the server, and really stupid in this case because the server's owner NOR the person leasing it was at all responsible. Almost like record companies suing people like KaZaa and Napster when Winamp and Microsoft make the products that actually allow the usage of MP3s...lol..Kind of crazy..but anyways, don't get me started on them!

Jerry's Final though (lol): FDC has made a remarkable reputation of screwing clients over and just taking people's money. It's unbelievable how they stay in business. Must have the same business policy as Microsoft. (Purposely put bugs in software and charge clients $30/min for tech support) The best recommendation I can give anyone who has been screwed by a company like this is to contact the BBB.

Originally posted by mhale
<<<snip>>>
Well I started this thread so you can be sure I agree on the fact that the measure was too much but making a server open relay is a total no-go...

MM,

I've had experience with both FDC and Rackshack. Both of them have sent the host an email saying they have a spam report, we've logged in, tracked the user and killed the account, then reported back giving them exactly who it was and what was done.

Seems to keep them very happy indeed (oh, and we get the servers through a reseller of FDC and Rackshack, ie. someone like yourself).

Just my experience, but if you tell FDC that you WILL kill the offending account (whether they be your client or your clients client) they are happy to have you onboard.

Good luck!

Stuart

Originally posted by mhale
This is exactly what happened behind this story:

There was a bug with plesk not allowing any users to send mail, and plesk was contacted, but they had no fix yet and said just to enable mail relaying for the time being. So that was done.

Hello, never, never allow open relaying on your mailserver. There are spam bots out their scouring and testing mail servers 24/7 to see if they are open relays, and when they find one !!!!!

Same with old, insecure versions of formail. Bots scouring every domain name looking for /cgi-bin/formail.cgi etc, and testing the script to see if it will work as an open relay.

Originally posted by mhale
This is exactly what happened behind this story:

There was a bug with plesk not allowing any users to send mail, and plesk was contacted, but they had no fix yet and said just to enable mail relaying for the time being. So that was done. Then, the server was just magically removed from the network a few days ago. Just to find out that FDC pulled it because some big spam company figured out that server had mail relaying and screwed it over big time. The only reason FDC even knew was because someone reported it to SpamCop or something like that and they e-mailed FDC. I think this is an unbelievably crazy policy on FDC's part. They knew the entire story behind this BEFORE they just deleted the server. I think it's stupid in the first place to just remove the server, and really stupid in this case because the server's owner NOR the person leasing it was at all responsible. Almost like record companies suing people like KaZaa and Napster when Winamp and Microsoft make the products that actually allow the usage of MP3s...lol..Kind of crazy..but anyways, don't get me started on them!

Jerry's Final though (lol): FDC has made a remarkable reputation of screwing clients over and just taking people's money. It's unbelievable how they stay in business. Must have the same business policy as Microsoft. (Purposely put bugs in software and charge clients $30/min for tech support) The best recommendation I can give anyone who has been screwed by a company like this is to contact the BBB.

So Who allowed relaying on the Server FDC? or the person with the server assigned whoever allowed relaying should have known and FDC should have atleast blocked the port 25 incoming/outgoing until it was resolved unless theyhad reason to believe it was the people at the server doing it

what does FDC stand for? :P

if you proactively monitor email usage you should be fine as a webhost. we have had some problems with spam, but our uplinks *never* even had ebough time to report it to us - the user in question has been terminated before the uplink got involved each and every time.

Originally posted by rusko
if you proactively monitor email usage...

Could you tell me how I can do that? Either as a webhost or dedicated server provider.

This is one reason I prefer using smaller companies, like DV2, APID etc, they know me by first name and if any reports come in they let me know, I handle them, send back a report of what I did to stop it from happening again, and it's closed. Sometimes I catch the bastards while they're sending, sometimes I catch them shortly after, and sometimes the data center emails me. A common one I'm having lately, is formmail abuse, no matter how often you scour servers for older formmails they still seem to creep back in like rats in a barn.

Originally posted by Dixiesys
This is one reason I prefer using smaller companies, like DV2, APID etc, they know me by first name and if any reports come in they let me know, I handle them, send back a report of what I did to stop it from happening again, and it's closed. Sometimes I catch the bastards while they're sending, sometimes I catch them shortly after, and sometimes the data center emails me. A common one I'm having lately, is formmail abuse, no matter how often you scour servers for older formmails they still seem to creep back in like rats in a barn.

Most newer versions of Formmail are also insecure just different ways to manipulate it..

NocSOl,
This is what happens when you signup with a cheap provider that treats you like a number,

You are just another $99 server, why would they care to keep you on?
I host with some big providers like hostcentrice, level3, verio , we have a few complaints every other day, they email us the complaints, we remove the sites, problem solved, and the cycle continues.
They know we run a hosting business, they know things will arise, as long as the problem is solved, no biggie.

What you have is a company who does not care if you leave or stay, that becomes a huge problem, you are nothing to the company. Leave? stay? who cares.

Now you see the problem :)