Hello, Im here to warn everyone that is a Payton Designs customer that you may have been ripped off.

This template has been available for just over a year now.

http://www.clantemplates.com/templates/callofduty4_glock47/

and its Free.


Payton has now put one very similar up for sale, infact the exact same with some rounded corners and changed fonts and a slimmer width. But other than that all is the same!

Theese can be seen here.

http://paytondesigns.com/designsforsale/1/
http://paytondesigns.com/designsforsale/1/subpage.html
http://paytondesigns.com/designsforsale/1/content.html

and are for sale here.

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=940553

They are practically the exact same, I wonder how many other people payton has ripped off.


So what payton has basically done is copied other peoples designs and resold them. If I was you I would be searching the web for sites that look like yours if you have purchased your design, but it seems paytons

"100% unique and will ONLY BE SOLD ONCE"

are not 100% Unique!

They are practically the exact same, I wonder how many other people payton has ripped off.


So what payton has basically done is copied other peoples designs and resold them. If I was you I would be searching the web for sites that look like yours if you have purchased your design, but it seems paytons



How dare you even try to say this... You've been registered for what? ONE DAY? You don't even know who I am...

This design was made for a client and it was made to fit his specifications. Due to time constraints I had to refund him and have since tried to move the template. You can say the design was inspired, but the design is 100% legit and I have a fully layered .psd to prove it.

You can say the design was inspired, but the design is 100% legit and I have a fully layered .psd to prove it.

That may be however many elements are 100% identical to the original - all of the sub headers are the exact same design copied, such as "main content" and "about us". The background images are also nearly exact duplicates. That isn't inspiration - that's duplicating.

Did you get written permission or even contact the original designer?


Source from http://www.clantemplates.com/templates/callofduty4_glock47/
* Copyright 2007 ClanTemplates.com
* Glock47 a free template by Dream at ClanTemplates.com
* No part of this file may be redistributed without written permission
* Coded by <opserty@gmail.com>

How dare you even try to say this... You've been registered for what? ONE DAY?
Why would that matter?

You can say the design was inspired, but the design is 100% legit and I have a fully layered .psd to prove it.

The "gameserver" and most heading images look identical except for color. How do you explain that coincidence?
(bear was too slow)

That may be however many elements are 100% identical to the original - all of the sub headers are the exact same design copied, such as "main content" and "about us". That isn't inspiration - that's duplicating.

Did you get written permission or even contact the original designer?


Source from http://www.clantemplates.com/templates/callofduty4_glock47/
* Copyright 2007 ClanTemplates.com
* Glock47 a free template by Dream at ClanTemplates.com
* No part of this file may be redistributed without written permission
* Coded by <[snipped email]>

Of course, the similar design elements were fully approved for this design.

Why would that matter?



The "gameserver" and most heading images look identical except for color. How do you explain that coincidence?
(bear was too slow)

Its not a coincidence its how its suppose to be...

Its not a coincidence its how its suppose to be...
So, "borrowed" from the template and hue shifted? I don't believe that's a legitimate use of the template elements.

It isn't.
http://legal.clantemplates.com/
The templates available in the templates gallery are free for personal use. A link back to ClanTemplates must be kept in order to use any work listed for download – in the form of a small affiliate image, footer link or text-based link. In most cases a link back to ClanTemplates will have been incorporated into the design – this should not be removed.

Of course, the similar design elements were fully approved for this design.Not to bash you but can you please provide proof of this?

I would expect the staff here would also like to see this.

Of course, the similar design elements were fully approved for this design.

I would change the language you are using to advertise templates that have duplicated/copied or similar area's. Claiming your designs are 100% unique is not true. This isn't a design you created from complete scratch and you advertising should be reflective of that.

If I was buying a template that I thought was 100% unique and I found you had copied elements I'd be upset.

This isnt the first time that you have done this or something like it, is it payton.

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=859348

I would change the language you are using to advertise templates that have duplicated/copied or similar area's. Claiming your designs are 100% unique is not true. This isn't a design you created from complete scratch and you advertising should be reflective of that.

If I was buying a template that I thought was 100% unique and I found you had copied elements I'd be upset.

My apologies for forgetting about this before I posted the thread. The design elements were approved as long as the design was fully recreated.

My only reasoning for contacting providers when wanting to use something is when the client directly requests for it. There have only been one or two of my clients that have requested this and I make sure to obtain legal use after past matters.

I've learned that when people want something, it's in my best interest to make sure they get it.

I see, he removed the design from his server quickly..

The design elements were approved as long as the design was fully recreated. Approved by ClanTemplates? That design didn't look fully recreated to me.
I make sure to obtain legal use after past matters.
Please contact the helpdesk (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/report.php?p=6779532) and provide this proof that you had permission from ClanTemplates to use design elements in a new(ish) design for a paying customer in this manner. That should clear this up.

Please contact the helpdesk (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/report.php?p=6779532) and provide this proof that you had permission from ClanTemplates to use design elements in a new(ish) design for a paying customer in this manner. That should clear this up.

Not a problem at all, it was actually approved by the creator.

(Link has been removed to preserve the design value)

If anyone missed the site, here is a pic.

http://i42.tinypic.com/osu89i.png

Not a problem at all, it was actually approved by the creator.

(Link has been removed to preserve the design value)

Just in the event others want to see the "100% unique" design themselves..... Here is a copy of what the design looked like before it was removed from your server, conveniently after this thread started I might add.

Hello, Im here to warn everyone that is a Payton Designs customer that you may have been ripped off.

This template has been available for just over a year now.

http://www.clantemplates.com/templates/callofduty4_glock47/

and its Free.


Payton has now put one very similar up for sale, infact the exact same with some rounded corners and changed fonts and a slimmer width. But other than that all is the same!

Theese can be seen here.

http://paytondesigns.com/designsforsale/1/
http://paytondesigns.com/designsforsale/1/subpage.html
http://paytondesigns.com/designsforsale/1/content.html

and are for sale here.

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=940553

They are practically the exact same, I wonder how many other people payton has ripped off.


So what payton has basically done is copied other peoples designs and resold them. If I was you I would be searching the web for sites that look like yours if you have purchased your design, but it seems paytons

"100% unique and will ONLY BE SOLD ONCE"

are not 100% Unique!

So a similar design, but with unique coding, is a rip? If you looked throughout the web, pretty much every site was inspired by another. Nothing is unique. I am sure the first template was inspired by someone else as well.

So a similar design, but with unique coding, is a rip? If you looked throughout the web, pretty much every site was inspired by another. Nothing is unique. I am sure the first template was inspired by someone else as well.

You are correct, the coding is 100% unique.

I cannot stress enough that this was requested by the client for anyone with doubts.

Sorry but the design wasnt even coded, it was a PSD that you were selling, and all you need to do was copy and paste the images into Photoshop.

Sorry but the design wasnt even coded, it was a PSD that you were selling, and all you need to do was copy and paste the images into Photoshop.

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect. All the designs in that thread have since been coded as a buying perk.

Please do me a favor, open up photoshop, copy and paste my design and ClanTemplates. Now, take your eye dropper and measuring tool to take down specifications. When you run into identical figures which haven't already been noted, let me know.

I cannot stress enough that this was requested by the client for anyone with doubts.If anything, I'd like to see proof of this over anything else. Why on earth would any client pay you to create something that is readily available for FREE on the internet? Not to mention, if they were going to use it for the purpose of gaming, they wouldn't have needed you to make any modifications at all (since it was already created by CT as a gaming template as well)... And it's just a coincidence that you needed to 'refund' the client and move on -- even after all that work?

If anything, I'd like to see proof of this over anything else. Why on earth would any client pay you to create something that is readily available for FREE on the internet? Not to mention, if they were going to use it for the purpose of gaming, they wouldn't have needed you to make any modifications at all (since it was already created by CT as a gaming template as well)... And it's just a coincidence that you needed to 'refund' the client and move on?

The colors and the basic feel of the design he wasnt satisfied with... but was keen on having the same headers. The client was also not charged my full rate...

I guess it is a coincidence that the client was refunded... Simply put, I missed a deadline and refunded the client. These are my terms for ALL my clients.

Its becoming more and more obvious that you have been caught, and you are trying to wriggle out of it like last time.

Its becoming more and more obvious that you have been caught, and you are trying to wriggle out of it like last time.

If I knew I had ripped the design, why would I have posted it for sale and even paid for the thread to be stuck at the top?

These two just dont go hand in hand...

When you run into identical figures which haven't already been noted, let me know.
It's already been established that you'd hue shifted existing graphics. Changing the color doesn't make it unique.
The colors and the basic feel of the design he wasnt satisfied with... but was keen on having the same headers. The client was also not charged my full rate...The point is that you were charging for elements of a free design that doesn't allow for that.

Still waiting at the desk for that proof you said you had. Is there a problem?

It's already been established that you'd hue shifted existing graphics. Changing the color doesn't make it unique.
The point is that you were charging for elements of a free design that doesn't allow for that.

Still waiting at the desk for that proof you said you had. Is there a problem?

Did you get the results for the dimensions? Duplicate?

I'm not on my machine so I cant access my Thunderbird Inbox. You can verify this with my IP address. I'll be sending it through later today when I return.

I'll be sending it through later today when I return.
It's now three days later, and I still don't see this proof. Why not?

Its a shame for the design world when this happens....

To the guy that said: If you looked throughout the web, pretty much every site was inspired by another. Nothing is unique. I am sure the first template was inspired by someone else as well.

There's a big difference between 'Inspired' and 'Ripped'... I've personally had my design work ripped before and its simply not fair for all parties... And the 'designer' himself is actually doing himself more harm than he realizes because he's actually limiting his creativity & will find its hard to get into the creative mindset again.

I've heard lots of good things about you Payton, don't get me wrong - I think some of your design work (if its yours) is good... Just I think this is a real shame - as there is NO WAY that this is just a co-incidence. Its a blatant rip.

I know the person who this original design was for, I will pass this thread link on to him and give his opinion on the matter.

Regards

Rob

As pointed out by my friend above, this design was originally made for myself.

It was originally slightly different to this but tweak in a real time chat to as you see it now with a different header.

I really liked the design and my only problem with Payton Designs was his time keeping in getting things done in the time frame proposed and being kept informed.

However on the flip side he was very professional in regards to his manner and I was given a refund upon request as I was looking for someone who could keep to the scheduled better.

I could not say if the original design was ripped but what I saw originally was modified to my specs as you see it now (with the exception of the banner on the right and the site name), he did say he would use it for another customer.

Not sure who's arguments that strengthens but those are the facts.

i don't get it. did you ask him to rip the headers off of the other template. you actually provided him the link to said template and told him rip it and use it? is that what you're saying?

I asked him for a design for a gaming site I was wanting to launch, he came back to me with the design you see.

The only difference I see on that index page is the sky-scraper banner on the right and the title of the site. It's pretty much the same.

I am not good at website design. Can somebody point me the similarities between the two designs?


OK, I think I see it now ... :)

I asked him for a design for a gaming site I was wanting to launch, he came back to me with the design you see.

The only difference I see on that index page is the sky-scraper banner on the right and the title of the site. It's pretty much the same.

did you have any knowledge of the already existing, free, template?

Interesting thread....

Being primarily a designer myself...

Why on earth would you give a refund for a full site mockup that you completed... Eg. if you did start from scratch & spent all the time mocking it up... Why would you allow that to go un-paid & refunded over 'missed deadlines'...

It really just doesnt make any logical sense at all...

Credible designers -> Keep up the good work :)

did you have any knowledge of the already existing, free, template?


No, not until now.... I was under the impression he designed it completely.

My only problem was he was taking stupid lengths of time to complete the project and his own deadlines were not met or even close.

I provide full refunds and that's a problem? Ha.

I guess others don't believe in customer satisfaction?

Being primarily a designer myself...

Why on earth would you give a refund for a full site mockup that you completed... Eg. if you did start from scratch & spent all the time mocking it up... Why would you allow that to go un-paid & refunded over 'missed deadlines'...

It really just doesnt make any logical sense at all...

Credible designers -> Keep up the good work :)

No, not until now.... I was under the impression he designed it completely.

My only problem was he was taking stupid lengths of time to complete the project and his own deadlines were not met or even close.That's unfortunate to hear, as Payton said the design in question was per your request and catered to your specific requirements. Is this not the case or am I just missing something?

Interesting thread. Did anything ever happen with the help desk? It does seem like this was a simple case of a rip. Sorry to see such a negative review from a reputable designer.

Please keep us updated if anything comes into the Help Desk!

I provide full refunds and that's a problem? Ha.
I guess others don't believe in customer satisfaction?

What I don't understand is how you get by, speculative design is killing this industry and damages the prospects of designers that try to make a living. So you will work for a client and if he doesn't like the result you give him his money back? Why not just NOT take the money in the first place and wait, if he likes he pays if he doesn't he, well doesn't? As I said speculative design.
I wish all companies were the same, like the tiler whom repaired our roof, really didn't do a good job, had to get someone professional to finish it, what do you reckon the chances of getting my money back from him?

I'm afraid the clients and the designers go together hand in hand, clients expect blood, sweat and tears and after all the work decide their not happy with the result from their $250 logo and web design investment, they want something like what 'Godaddy' got but for $10,000 less and the ?designers? play the game to get the work...$25 logo anyone!

If you are serious about being a credible designer go and get some better Clientele, people who understand and are serious about the concept and impact that having a good brand identity and presence on the net is. The sort of client that pays by the hour for work done. As I think someone mentioned here, this is not doing anyone any good especially you in this case. Have a bit more respect for the work you do and probably more importantly have a bit more respect for others work. You tried to take a leap forward and use anothers idea, (hell why not hes only paying $250 after all!) but where has it got you?

Don't you wish you could do a design like that without any inspiration from someone elses work?

For what it's worth, all of the images in both the Clan Templates and Paytons are readily available from multiple sources.

The header of the Payton is actually just a game cover art, without the call of duty bits and what not.

And the CS silhouette (news bit) can be found at multiple places, on multiple designs.

However the little arrow ones I haven't seen before, but it's pretty easily inspired.

The other images on the left for servers are pretty bog standard, found all over the place, I believe they're primarily used in most places as an ad for the game.

E.g the CS image on Payton is just a zoomed in version of the cover art of counter strike source (http://www.gamearena.com.au/getconnected/servers/allservers/ as an example cover art)

In any case, most images found can be seen elsewhere.

Supply and demand - blame the Internet!

Pretty much anyone can compete in getting projects - regardless if you are in India, US or Europe.
If you are looking to sign 20.000 USD deals, then you need to advertise in your local yellowpages and not on WHT (with a few exceptions).

Unfortunately, this is not the first time he has been accused of something like this. :(

Being primarily a designer myself...

Why on earth would you give a refund for a full site mockup that you completed... Eg. if you did start from scratch & spent all the time mocking it up... Why would you allow that to go un-paid & refunded over 'missed deadlines'...

It really just doesnt make any logical sense at all...

Credible designers -> Keep up the good work :)

Give me a break , you are bashing someone for refunding their money?

Who cares what the reason is...

I can tell you this - if he "did not" give the money back, he would be getting bashed for that to.

Even with his WHMCS integration work , he gave 50% back due to missing dead lines - and even with that thread people were bashing him due to ONE user mis-understood and figured that he had a full refund owed to him... Come on people , 25 bucks ?

Payton has been around quite sometime and has a lot of great kudos on his work...

As far as I can see , there were perhaps 2 issues - this one and one other that , perhaps the design looked close to one another.

Are you going to tell me that looking at his portfolio that everyone of the designs is taken form a template?

I cant tell you how many "so called" designers on wht do not even have a portfolio let alone a web site.

I have seen it time and time again , new users on WHT who have barely any posts join just to start controversy then sit back and watch the sparks fly ...

So Payton has already responded , leave it be and let the guy get back to what he is being paid to do -

Sorry but this really gets to me when I see "decent" people on here that clearly have a good track record (2 perhaps issues out of the years he has done work and been on wht) get Taken Down by the Lynch Mob.

For someone who clearly cares about his clients to the point of refunding money - then still gets a beating for that - just cracks me up , Give him a break people.

Peace...

Dave

What I don't understand is how you get by, speculative design is killing this industry and damages the prospects of designers that try to make a living. So you will work for a client and if he doesn't like the result you give him his money back? Why not just NOT take the money in the first place and wait, if he likes he pays if he doesn't he, well doesn't? As I said speculative design.
I wish all companies were the same, like the tiler whom repaired our roof, really didn't do a good job, had to get someone professional to finish it, what do you reckon the chances of getting my money back from him?

I'm afraid the clients and the designers go together hand in hand, clients expect blood, sweat and tears and after all the work decide their not happy with the result from their $250 logo and web design investment, they want something like what 'Godaddy' got but for $10,000 less and the ?designers? play the game to get the work...$25 logo anyone!

If you are serious about being a credible designer go and get some better Clientele, people who understand and are serious about the concept and impact that having a good brand identity and presence on the net is. The sort of client that pays by the hour for work done. As I think someone mentioned here, this is not doing anyone any good especially you in this case. Have a bit more respect for the work you do and probably more importantly have a bit more respect for others work. You tried to take a leap forward and use anothers idea, (hell why not hes only paying $250 after all!) but where has it got you?

Don't you wish you could do a design like that without any inspiration from someone elses work?

Good points - and agree

250.00 for a Web Design and Logo or even 500.00 for a Design / Logo , WHMCS Integration AND Forum Integration is a fantastic deal.

Payton only charges 25 bucks for WHMCS Integration

Your point on the "real" cost of great design is hardly known by most users here on WHT...

I have a personal friend of mine that owns a very large design company - how much to they charge for design of some of the most popular sites on the net? Starting at 10,000 on up to 100,000

Cheers people...

Dave

perhaps the design looked close to one another. He admitted the graphics for some of the headings were from the template, and that he had proof of permission to reuse them (if it was just "inspired" why offer that you have proof to reuse them?). He has so far not provided that proof. The logical conclusions are:
1) he didn't actually have permission.
2) he's waiting to hear back after just asking the author/site.
3) he's hoping it will just blow over.
4) he's ignoring the request.
5) he's somehow forgotten, even with thread reminder emails, that he said he'd give us this.

So a similar design, but with unique coding, is a rip? If you looked throughout the web, pretty much every site was inspired by another. Nothing is unique. I am sure the first template was inspired by someone else as well.

Good points ... yeah there are millions of templates that are out there on the net.

Along with the millions of graphics sites for free and pay

Dave

I have a personal friend of mine that owns a very large design company - how much to they charge for design of some of the most popular sites on the net? Starting at 10,000 on up to 100,000 WHT tends to feature a rather unbalanced cross-section of the professional design industry. The fact is most professional design firms aren't going to touch even straightforward, traditional design and front-end work for less than $10,000, because the economics don't make sense. You're also going to find very high customer satisfaction rates and interesting ROI-based case studies when you look at design companies who charge what this work is really worth.

This isn't a knock against Payton or anyone who does extreme-budget design work. I haven't worked with Payton, and all alleged dodginess aside, he may or may not be a great choice. But growth and longterm sustainability come at a price, and it's a price clients should and are willing to pay if it benefits them in the long run as well. From our own standpoint, we do still take on some projects in the $x,xxx range, but this is becoming increasingly rare.

Anywho, enough OT - I just wanted to +1 on ParagonHost's ideas regarding pricing models :)

Good points ... yeah there are millions of templates that are out there on the net.

Along with the millions of graphics sites for free and pay

Dave

Agreed! but free to claim ownership and sell to others as your own for profit?

At this point the best thing for Payton to do is just admit the original design was copied from an existing template and modified to the customers specs, rather than trying to deny it. It just makes Payton look worse doing so. :(

Good points ... yeah there are millions of templates that are out there on the net.

Along with the millions of graphics sites for free and pay

DaveThey are sold as non-unique, and the buyer knows they are not getting a unique design.


Payton was selling this one as a unique design, which it clearly is not.

He admitted the graphics for some of the headings were from the template, and that he had proof of permission to reuse them (if it was just "inspired" why offer that you have proof to reuse them?). He has so far not provided that proof. The logical conclusions are:
1) he didn't actually have permission.
2) he's waiting to hear back after just asking the author/site.
3) he's hoping it will just blow over.
4) he's ignoring the request.
5) he's somehow forgotten, even with thread reminder emails, that he said he'd give us this.

This conversation needs to end , the issue is closed.

For crying out loud the client did not even have an issue.

As much as you would like to continue this banter - fact is , this is a closed issue. Payton refunded the money.

Again, it is a SAD thing that one cannot look at the past and TRASH the reputation of a "good" person who has been clearly on here for years and has lots of great kudos and clearly is an upstanding business person.

With all do respect, Don't be part of the lynch mob is all I can say...

I will not post another message on this thread as it is a Waste of time getting looped into ONE post by a new user who has not even posted or even been a part of this thread all that much and the client / vendor relationship was not even an ISSUE till all this was brought up ...

Bit surprised that your feeding the "fire" , not sure if your are in the same position as prior...

But bottom line is , You along with any other user has made their point , the "Client" did NOT even have an issue , Payton has posted back his response...

So this issue is closed as far as I am concerned.

Dave

;6786076']They are sold as non-unique, and the buyer knows they are not getting a unique design.


Payton was selling this one as a unique design, which it clearly is not.

I would agree with that....

Dave

Agreed! but free to claim ownership and sell to others as your own for profit?

I get your point ... and agreed in general Claiming ownership and selling to others is not a good thing.

WHT tends to feature a rather unbalanced cross-section of the professional design industry. The fact is most professional design firms aren't going to touch even straightforward, traditional design and front-end work for less than $10,000, because the economics don't make sense. You're also going to find very high customer satisfaction rates and interesting ROI-based case studies when you look at design companies who charge what this work is really worth.

This isn't a knock against Payton or anyone who does extreme-budget design work. I haven't worked with Payton, and all alleged dodginess aside, he may or may not be a great choice. But growth and longterm sustainability come at a price, and it's a price clients should and are willing to pay if it benefits them in the long run as well. From our own standpoint, we do still take on some projects in the $x,xxx range, but this is becoming increasingly rare.

Anywho, enough OT - I just wanted to +1 on ParagonHost's ideas regarding pricing models :)

Good points...

Well honestly - I am done with thread, time to get back to business.

Best of luck everyone on this , but I think everyone has made their points clear including Payton.

Also I mean no disrespect to anyone here - these types of threads can really get heated - and buttons are pushed all over the place ( yeah we all have them ) ...

So all I can say is , give Payton a little bit of slack - he does have a nice track record of being an upstanding business person and designer.

Peace all ...

Dave

WHT Mods, always running in to threads asking for proof of things that are really none of their business.

I will not post another message on this thread as it is a Waste of time...

3 more posts from you later...

Well honestly - I am done with thread, time to get back to business.


Gave me a chuckle this morning :)

WHT Mods, always running in to threads asking for proof of things that are really none of their business.If the legal nature of a WHT member's business practices are legitimately called into question on WHT, it is not only our business to investigate, it is our duty. This thread isn't about whether a client is satisfied - it is about whether a member is engaging in unscrupulous practices. At this point, we don't know for certain, which is why Payton and everyone else is being given the opportunity to share. Since the issue is currently unresolved, it doesn't make any sense to close the thread.

Bear's running the show regarding clearing up claims for this thread (which often happens through the help desk) - I'm just giving a mod's perspective, that's all. If anyone has any questions about how or why moderators handle threads such as these, please start a thread in the Announcements, Feedback and Questions Forum, or open a ticket if you'd like to discuss moderating practices privately. Thanks!

This conversation needs to end , the issue is closed.
And yet...
I would agree with that....
In regards to it being wrong to sell these as unique?
he does have a nice track record of being an upstanding business person and designer.
Actually, he'd done something like this not long ago, so I dispute that "track record".
WHT Mods, always running in to threads asking for proof of things that are really none of their business.
In this case, someone is selling "unique designs", where they actually appear to contain elements of templates that are not legal to use elsewhere, especially for sale. That would be fraud, and it does concern WHT mods.

Give me a break , you are bashing someone for refunding their money?

Who cares what the reason is...

I can tell you this - if he "did not" give the money back, he would be getting bashed for that to.

Even with his WHMCS integration work , he gave 50% back due to missing dead lines - and even with that thread people were bashing him due to ONE user mis-understood and figured that he had a full refund owed to him... Come on people , 25 bucks ?

Payton has been around quite sometime and has a lot of great kudos on his work...

As far as I can see , there were perhaps 2 issues - this one and one other that , perhaps the design looked close to one another.

Are you going to tell me that looking at his portfolio that everyone of the designs is taken form a template?

I cant tell you how many "so called" designers on wht do not even have a portfolio let alone a web site.

I have seen it time and time again , new users on WHT who have barely any posts join just to start controversy then sit back and watch the sparks fly ...

So Payton has already responded , leave it be and let the guy get back to what he is being paid to do -

Sorry but this really gets to me when I see "decent" people on here that clearly have a good track record (2 perhaps issues out of the years he has done work and been on wht) get Taken Down by the Lynch Mob.

For someone who clearly cares about his clients to the point of refunding money - then still gets a beating for that - just cracks me up , Give him a break people.

Peace...

Dave

Yes I am... Design is a SERVICE not a product. If a designer takes time to design something (be it x amount of hours) he should be paid for his work...

Design contracts exist for a reason... And any designer who works without a contract is A) Stupid or B) Desperate.

I can completely sympathize with you in the fact that yes the Lynch mob are out - but I dont think plagiarism is something to be taken lightly in the web world... There is no way at all that the two designs are a co-incidence... I'm sorry, but Payton you have to accept that they are way too close... And then removing 'your own work' from your site to cover up the tracks, then giving a refund... It doesnt look good does it?

I have no doubt your a good designer, but with those odd jobs inbetween (on perhaps a very uncreative day for you) - you just let yourself down really badly.

But bottom line is , You along with any other user has made their point , the "Client" did NOT even have an issue , Payton has posted back his response...

So this issue is closed as far as I am concerned.

Dave

That's not really the point though is it...?

Say a man walked into my house, stole my TV, sofa, bed etc; but returned it the next day.... In your mind, is he a thief or not?

(I'm not saying your a theif payton, like I said in my last post... I dont really know you so can't comment properly... But its kind of a scam?)

That's not really the point though is it...?

Say a man walked into my house, stole my TV, sofa, bed etc; but returned it the next day.... In your mind, is he a thief or not?

(I'm not saying your a theif payton, like I said in my last post... I dont really know you so can't comment properly... But its kind of a scam?)

Good points , but just as in the court system... one takes into account his side of the story along with the person who is accused their past history.

Fact is , Payton already noted that the design was inspired , he already noted that he did a "new" psd design, used elements of that design that are ALSO freely available on other sites, and noted that the hue shift on the design is different.

My point is , if you out right steal a design down to the point where the CODE is the same, he already noted that he did his own codeing on th site.

But honestly , if you take a designer and he use images and graphics that are available all over the internet (as noted in this thread) the designer perhaps places the menu on top and places images in locations that are close to another persons design... does that justify Bashing that person up and down and not even giving the guy any slack when he is making a clear attempt to resolve the conflict? Does this also not give the right of the designer to resell the design even if the code is written by the designer but the look and feel of the site is close to another freely available template?

Really the point for me is not just Payton, but I see it all the time here, a modern day lynch mob trashing a designer or service provider due to one person claim of an issue -

I will tell you that new users on wht do this all the time I am sorry to say....

Yeah I know I said I would not post another comment on this thread but , had to make my point.

So if you all do not mind, I have to get back to running my business and making my living ;)

Once again , peace all - I do not mean ANY disrespect here and everyone has a right to their own view on the issue.... but I think we need to put this to bed.

Again , the client really has no issue with this whole darn thread... the client perhaps posted twice on this.

Client had been refunded , the design is taken off the site , unless you all can tell me that EVERY ONE of Payton's designs within his portfolio is stolen from a template , give the guy a break ...

I am am sure there are many many users here that have had wonderful service from Payton.

Done , I am out.

Dave

Fact is , Payton already noted that the design was inspired , he already noted that he did a "new" psd design, used elements of that design that are ALSO freely available on other sites, and noted that the hue shift on the design is different.


I'm not sure how much you know about design work but thats still technically illegal as there's copyright issues involved.... (Taking images from other sites without permission) - It doesnt matter if its available elsewhere... Its still illegal.

I do recognize that Payton you have been bashed, and whilst its not for me to judge; I feel that if you at least admitted it was a rip / mistake & apologized I'd feel a lot better / restore my ideology of you (I really had been told lots of good things)...

But if you still deny it... Well, then I feel like your being dishonest.


--

I dont enjoy 'flaming' - but I felt this had to be said.

I too feel like this thread has gone on for far too long, but I'll be honest and say that I'd like to hear more from Payton...

I will not post another message on this thread as it is a Waste of time...
Dave

Well honestly - I am done with thread, time to get back to business...
Dave

Done , I am out.
Dave

The last post was your 6th message since you first said you were done with this thread! I'm pretty sure you can't get enough of this thread :)

My take on the situation is, Payton has been given the opportunity to submit evidence to "exonerate" him. If he does, then case closed. But so far, Payton shifted the blame to the original client saying that it was the client who wanted to and who directed him to rip the images from the free template. The client then actually posted here and said he knew nothing of and was completely unaware of the free design that was ripped.

By the way, I follow the design forums, and this isn't the first time Payton was "caught red-handed"...

I must admit I am at the same stance as the above, the only reason I am interested in this outcome is because I got involved in other of these threads involving Payton and it took exactly the same course. The OP only posted a few posts then went awol, payton didn't respond a conclusive answer and long story very short, OP and Payton signed NDA and threads were closed and the crowd was dispersed....

just wondering how this one will go?

Well it is clearly fraud if someone takes a free to use, publicly available but copyrighted design, changes the hue and then sells it as a unique template. I would argue that someone having a reputation in this or any other forum shouldn't excuse such behavior. If anything it most likely concealed other instances as well.

In-case anybody is interested, the original designers MSN address is lewis@shock.in.

Fact is , Payton already noted that the design was inspired
Not exactly.
In response to this:

Please contact the helpdesk (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/report.php?p=6779532) and provide this proof that you had permission from ClanTemplates to use design elements in a new(ish) design for a paying customer in this manner. That should clear this up.
He wrote:
Not a problem at all, it was actually approved by the creator.
Not inspired, taken. He claimed he had the approval of the original creator, but to date has failed to produce proof of same. This would have been resolved long ago if he did.

Still very interested in this thread? I am subscribing!

If it was a rip off, at this point an admission of guilt and public apology. As well as not doing it again would be the only way to clear this up. Because it seems to be the case here...

my 2 cents

If it was a rip off, at this point an admission of guilt and public apology. As well as not doing it again would be the only way to clear this up. Because it seems to be the case here...

my 2 cents

I do agree with this and a thread like this was brought up a few months ago before I was a registered member here. I recall payton using other peoples designs and then never posting again after the mods requesting proof of some sort from payton for permission just like this thread.

I guess » 100% Custom and Unique no longer applies to there website.

@techjr,

It is sad to see such a talented designer go down the drain by taking the easy way out!

He copied one of my designs now too :/

DMCA Then :)

He copied one of my designs now too :/

Which? Can you provide screen shot's.

I started a thread about it, http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=947029

Has he ever actualy made anything Unique? i appear to be seeing these posts too frequently.

Has he ever actualy made anything Unique? i appear to be seeing these posts too frequently.He's ripped one of my designs a few years ago (precisioneffect.com actually) and was showcasing it in his portfolio until I filed a DMCA and he took it down. I made a few posts about it but not a big fuss, but as in some of the other ripping threads, he had source code of the actual website ripping software/script he used to do it with (as well as watching him on Kayako SupportSuite ;)). The thread jtaM just referenced is certainly not a rip.

You wouldn't know if someone had a patent on visual elements and such by the talk of some posters here. In my opinion, it's only a rip if they took the code and all and used it. If you code from scratch and use a design similar to another site, it should not be considered a rip. More like a clean room reimplementation.

Has he ever actualy made anything Unique? i appear to be seeing these posts too frequently.

Yes there is always 2 sides to ever story ...

Follow the link to the new thread for the most "recent" - feeding the fire debacle.

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=947029

Dave

You wouldn't know if someone had a patent on visual elements and such by the talk of some posters here. In my opinion, it's only a rip if they took the code and all and used it. If you code from scratch and use a design similar to another site, it should not be considered a rip. More like a clean room reimplementation.

A logical point of you... Thank you

Dave

@ jtaM

There are always two side of a coin....

I was the one hiring John Tamburino for a design to my company. I have provided A LOT of the input to the design. The very same input was later given to Payton Designs. That includes color pallet, all three boxes with game, voice and dedicated servers, Network map and the Why Fragnet. These are elements that you may find on a lot of GSPs websites.

I would say it's quite bold claiming "it's your design"....

You wouldn't know if someone had a patent on visual elements and such by the talk of some posters here. In my opinion, it's only a rip if they took the code and all and used it. If you code from scratch and use a design similar to another site, it should not be considered a rip. More like a clean room reimplementation.

I disagree with that. Just because he didn't also steal the code of the website in question, doesn't negate the fact that he stole the design. I agree jtaM's issue seems to be one of heavy influence with layout structure, color scheme and content distribution. But payton was commissioned to make those changes by the person that arguably owns the rights to the design. Nothing wrong with that.

But original issue here is a literal lift of a free design to change it's color and then attempting to sell it as an original design. That is as fraudulent as it gets. And I have no idea why a few here keep claiming that ANYONE deserves a break for that. Especially after he was caught lying about having the rights to use the design.

What was the verdict on Payton providing proof to WHT mods so we can close this thread? I think we've gone above, beyond, and out the back door on this one. Can we call it a day?

If we were given proof that cleared up the parts that concerned us, we'd have posted to that effect.

If we were given proof that cleared up the parts that concerned us, we'd have posted to that effect.

Did you guys ever get it?

I think bear means, "no, we have not, otherwise we'd have posted it"

Correct, I've seen nothing at all so far. Sorry for being unclear.

hmmm...yes the site's unique authenticity is questionable but out of all the design's Payton's done and the feedback he's had, both good and some not so good, I'm curious as to why someone joined WHT simply to go on a Payton witch hunt. Looks likely there's more going on in the background here. I mean it's not like the Payton owes the OP anything.

perhaps the OP should have contacted the clan folks before banging off in here.

having said that, I understand WHT's stance on this matter and other matters of a similar nature.

owm

I'm curious as to why someone joined WHT simply to go on a Payton witch hunt. Looks likely there's more going on in the background here.

Yeh....my thoughts as well. First Steve Garbus was targeted, now it's Payton.

I'm not saying all accusations against both are unfounded, as it does appear that errors have been made and timescales missed. But we're all human, and liable to errors of judgment on occasions.

But to me, some of this stuff, and the timing of it, is a bit questionable.

When all is said, payton is very good at what he does, For all we know payton may of been set up.

A serious businessman can pull this over, after all it may be bashing him in one sense, but its publicity for him on the forum.

Without a doubt, for the price you pay and the work he does, its fantastic.

Regards

Without a doubt, for the price you pay and the work he does, its fantastic.


Agreed....I've always been impressed with what he does.

I'm a developer/designer myself, and 6 or 7 years ago I did consider (very briefly) looking into the Hosting market.

But to me, the sums just didn't add up. Too many people who want the moon on a stick for nothing, allied with the ability of trashing you across the internet just because they don't get their own way. Irrespective of how pedantic and unreasonable they may behave. And over the years the situation has got worse as webhosting is now so stupidly cheap.

Recent scenarios with Steve Garbus and Payton highlight what a difficult position they're in.

I take my hat off them to them....they've got the market they wanted. But it sure as hell isn't a market that I want.

And over the years the situation has got worse as webhosting is now so stupidly cheap.

This is so true, but its going to get worse.

Regards

When all is said, payton is very good at what he does, For all we know payton may of been set up.

A serious businessman can pull this over, after all it may be bashing him in one sense, but its publicity for him on the forum.

Without a doubt, for the price you pay and the work he does, its fantastic.

Regards

No one can deny he has done some great work, but maybe it needs to be public if hes ripping sites and passing them off as his designs.

Correct, I've seen nothing at all so far. Sorry for being unclear.

I guess he doesn't plan to provide proof. He replied a couple of days ago on another page AFTER you stated he had yet to contact the mods. So one could assume he is stalling...

I see we had a newbie to the forum saying he was the original client and saying that he/she never asked payton to make a design inspired on this other design...

can I just remind you all that this newbie to the forum might not even be the actual client!

If I worked as a designer and somone said here is a site.. www.whatever.com I like the design can you make me something that looks like this but use the colours of x y and z instead and ill pay you x....well this is what I would do and I would do it to the letter specially if there paying x.

So although it looks the same I highly dowt its been ripped, merely inspired but looks the same as this is what payton said it was the client requirements.

Because thats what you do when your a designer you stick exactually to the letter otherwise you dont get paid.

- he gave a refund because he didnt meet his deadlines - not because it was a rip whoever suggested that. (says this in the first couple of inital pages of this thread).

payton proberly hasnt replied to this thread further cause he is proberly sick of repeating himself.

If hes made the grpahics himself, and can prove the code is his own the original company who made the site can't actually technically do bugger all about it. reason being is they dont have a registered trademark or anything actually legally binding there for he doesnt need permission.

also if payton does have a fully layered psd this proves he made the graphics himself there for not actually re using anything from the site which in turn again he doesnt need permission for.

If hes made the grpahics himself
He claimed he had permission from the original designer to use the graphics (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showpost.php?p=6779544&postcount=14). Perhaps you missed that part. Proof of that was what was requested, and would have ended all doubt except for the "unique" design claims. That doesn't concern us, though it calls into question his ethics.

As for "if he has the fully layered PSD to prove it's his"?
See above. ;)

You are confusing the issues Flumps. The OP, or newbie to the forum as you described was the one that discovered Payton had the stolen design listed for sale. He was not the client. Payton claims he originally did it for a client but refunded that client for not keeping up with his schedule commitments. The client has already stated here that he was not made aware of the fact that Payton was using image elements from a free but copyrighted design. Payton in turn then takes this design and puts it up for sale on his website as a premade unique design.

So you are looking at not only the theft of the design and using it in a way that is expressly prohibited by the design owner, but also trying to continue to profit from it by selling it en-masse.

What difference does it make if someone with 1 post count or 1000 lets user's know he discovered someone was doing this. What matters is if the allegation can be substatianted. And clearly Payton has been caught doing this and to this day won't provide the proof of permission he adamantly said he had.

I am a designer myself and it disgusts me that someone that claims to be among the best designers here, with an 'award winning' body of work but in fact is just stealing other people's designs and then attempting to profit from it. And this is possible because so many here are quick to make up all the excuses in the world for him (including all the repeated attempts at vilifying the OP and his supposed intentions). Seeing this I can't say I blame him for being so blatant.

Not sure what else there is to talk about in this thread... Design requested, approval given, design made.

I still don't understand why everyone claims all my designs aren't unique... Maybe you should check again.

Anyways, if you guys are so positive what I'm doing is illegal, sue me. :)

Not sure what else there is to talk about in this thread... Design requested, approval given, design made.

I still don't understand why everyone claims all my designs aren't unique... Maybe you should check again.

Anyways, if you guys are so positive what I'm doing is illegal, sue me. :)

lackluster response. What about bear's request ?

Not sure what else there is to talk about in this thread... Design requested, approval given, design made.

I still don't understand why everyone claims all my designs aren't unique... Maybe you should check again.

Anyways, if you guys are so positive what I'm doing is illegal, sue me. :)

The moderators asked you to send them proof that you claimed.. So, they're standing by waiting on you.

I still don't understand why everyone claims all my designs aren't unique...
Weird that......:eek:

Weird that......:eek:

I mean, they all just look-a-like... :eek:

It's almost a nice thing having this sit on top, don't think I've ever had to quote this many people for a new design.

I mean, they all just look-a-like... :eek:


Gee I wouldn't order from someone who's designs all looked alike. If I want unique, I would be looking for something that has never been seen on the internet or anywhere else.

Gee I wouldn't order from someone who's designs all looked alike. If I want unique, I would be looking for something that has never been seen on the internet or anywhere else.

I'm looking at them now and man they really do all look the same. :rolleyes:

I'm looking at them now and man they really do all look the same. :rolleyes:They're nothing special, sorry. I thought you were going to provide your "proof" to the mods as soon as you got back to your computer/home that one day (5+ days ago)? Seeing as you've ripped my work before and publicly displayed it on your portfolio, there is no false information in this thread. Once a ripper, always a ripper. ;)

They're nothing special, sorry. I thought you were going to provide your "proof" to the mods as soon as you got back to your computer/home that one day (5+ days ago)? Seeing as you've ripped my work before and publicly displayed it on your portfolio, there is no false information in this thread. Once a ripper, always a ripper. ;)

Yeah, I just looked through your portfolio also, I'm a bit jealous. :rolleyes:

don't think I've ever had to quote this many people for a new design.

Barnum was right.
No proof was provided, thread closed.