Note: this post has some old history here - http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=870722
foobic had some really great comments there.
___________________________________________

I never thought that the actual development of my new startup would be so painful.

I hired the first guy to build my website and got rid of him after 5 months for not producing the product. Then I hired a good sized company in town and had to fire them after 5 months for the same reason. Then I hired a guy in town that said all the right things and now I am faced with potentially firing him after 8 MONTHS!
Sure, he hired a company in Argentina to finish me up but is very slow to pay and authorize more work.

Why can I not get my product produced?
Why do people not do what they say they are going to do?

Can anyone give me a lead on a legitmate company (or tell me where to look) that can finish the remaining 40% of a website written in (C# .NET 3.5 / VS2008 / LLBL Gen Pro / SQL 2008 Express)?
Can anyone give me a lead on a legitmate company (or tell me where to look) that can edit the future finished code for scalability without failure?

If I ever get my website running, I will need to start with a high-end shared hosting provider (with dedicated ip) that specializes in hosting applications.
Can I get some names of some companies that specializes in this and is scalable if/when the business pops?

I am so depressed that I am in this situation for a 3rd time with no real end in site. I have wasted big money and big time.
Thanks a lot for your responses!

Payton Designs comes to mind, I know he's well known on here for producing good sites


I apologise I haven't read the original thread (reading it now) so could only suggest asking for some samples of their sites they have designed and asking for customers to contact to verify it

Apologies if you have already done this, but Payton is recommended on here.

How are you paying the developers? Are you paying a hourly/weekly rate or are you paying upon project completion? It sounds like you are paying a daily or weekly rate and they are just milking it for all it's worth.

How are you paying the developers? Are you paying a hourly/weekly rate or are you paying upon project completion? It sounds like you are paying a daily or weekly rate and they are just milking it for all it's worth.

My point is the above.

You should just pay a deposit, then pay the rest upon completion, draw up a contract to cover yourself.

I think there just taking the complete p*** and taking your money mate, next time you hire cover yourself. Don't pay hourly, you would probably pay less for a payment upon completion, plus, they would do it as fast as they can so they get paid.

Hope this helps.

I did not make a contract. I was told that the site could be done in 104 hours.
As it turns out, the site is probably going to take near 500 hours.

I hired this guy on August 5, 2009 - 8 months ago tomorrow.
He wanted the money in thirds.
He asked for the final payment just 8 weeks into it. I was really happy with what I perceived as a fast developing website.
When he asked for the final payment I said:
I am not comfortable making the final payment at this time.
I assumed the final payment would be paid on completion of the site.

I believe that a complete site is one that is fully tested.
Since I cannot perceive how much is actually finished, I have to go with my gut.
My gut tells me that we just sat down for our first set of changes (page flow & basic user mechanics).

The developer wrote back:
The final payment is due in conjunction with the final release of all major functionality. Believe me this application will not be completed for another 6 months. There will be bugs, changes, additional modifications and all types of things. I provide a 90 day warranty on all code.

And will provide minor changes and tweaks to the app as requested by you.

Minor changes include items such as:

- Text changes
- Minor form layout changes
- Additional reports
- minor changes in subscription workflow.
- and other small changes or additions

Major changes which will not be included are:
- Addition brand new functionality
- Major overhaul of the look of the site
- anything that requires additional processes such as integration with 3rd party software
If you want to without 25% of the final payment for later then I would be fine with that but I do need a payment.

Then I wrote back:
So, we have a final release of all major functionality as of today?

I'm not being a smart ass here, I just don't understand since it is not up and running with the login, credit card, comments, email output, and postcard output file.

Then he wrote back:
Message, Credit card processing, login, email output and postcard output IS all in this release.

Login screen is included in this one.

The remaining major items are:

- get card processing approved and move out of the sandbox
- Define additional emails. All email functionality is written just need to add additional "workflow" emails (This will be an ongoing process for months, to tweak your marketing)

Then I wrote back:
OK...I'm going to agree with you and trust you on this one.
I have had no reason to doubt you so far... So why should I now.

It's just that the amount of stress that I have put myself under is
more than usual.

Then you can imagine what happened next. All communcation pretty much stopped and the excuses started coming. I thought that I had been scammed until he hired an Argentinian company (Feburary 1, 2010) to "finish me up". I have been working with this South American company for two months now and I am VERY happy with the communication and they seem to be very competent. The problem is that my developer has been slow to authorize work and pay the firm.
I believe that the developer has been out about $3000 with the SA company so I really don't believe that he is a scam artist. If fact I believe he is a good guy with basically no business apptitude.
I believe that everything he said to get the final payment was false. The SA firm was really handed very little, and much of what they were handed had to be "redone".

That said, I believe that I am going to separate from my developer because I don't believe that he will finish the estimated hours to completion.
The way I look at it, if I fired him and took all the code, I would be out $4000. I guess it could be a lot worse!

I REALLY need some good advice on how to hire developers!!!
This is the third time I have failed.
I had a contract with the 2nd company and they had very little of my money...and wouldn't finish the project.

Payton Designs comes to mind, I know he's well known on here for producing good sites


I apologise I haven't read the original thread (reading it now) so could only suggest asking for some samples of their sites they have designed and asking for customers to contact to verify it

Apologies if you have already done this, but Payton is recommended on here.

Unfortunately I only work with xHTML/CSS and some PHP. From the looks of it, he's looking for a programmer.

Thanks for your recommendation though!

No worries, I'd love to delve into webdesign myself but far too inexperienced. I have loads of ideas, just naff all knowledge. I'm going to study a lot from books and slowly

Always nice to recommend someone when they come highly :)

If the Argentinians are making you happy, then go with them direct.

But, your base problem stems from the fact that you do not have the expertise to make determinations as to the state of the code at any particular point in time. That makes it impossible for you to know what you are buying and what has been delivered.

If the Argentinians are making you happy, then go with them direct.

But, your base problem stems from the fact that you do not have the expertise to make determinations as to the state of the code at any particular point in time. That makes it impossible for you to know what you are buying and what has been delivered.

I simply do not have the ability to know how to find a developer that fits my needs. So, your right, I need to stay with the Argentinians.
Your second paragragh is SO true! You hit the nail right on the head.

Can I get some web host suggestions?
It will be a online address book application for three levels of users. It will have very low storage needs. However, I would like to host two website off the same account. One for my business and personal family website.

Also, I have read that fast online applications need a host that has the websites and databases on separate machines? This makes sense but it could take me a year just trying to get a list of .net application host providers with this setup.
What do you guys think and do you know of any?

Actually, I just saw that discountasp.net has separate SQL boxes.
Can you maybe send me a link that has a list of these special .net 3.5/SQL 2008 express Application Host Providers?

Why can I not get my product produced?
Why do people not do what they say they are going to do?


Software development is very difficult

I've been around long enough to have seen all sorts of "methodologies" come and go. I would guess that half the software development projects I've seen have failed ... and these are projects managed by top-rank service companies.

Right now, some companies have essentially given up trying to define a requirement and getting a program developed to do it; instead, the customer funds a week or a month of effort, and works with the developers to see what they can achieve in that time.

If all goes well, the exercise is repeated, enhancing the product time and again.

From the looks of it, the developer u just fired hadn't done anything at all. Else he wouldn't want his hard work to go into a waste and would have tried everything not to get fired...

And its also possible, since ur new, n00bs have tried to fool you :D

just my 2 cents

Actually, I haven't fired him yet. I have paid him in full and I am waiting to see if he decides to stop work and steal my money or not.
This is what I emailed him Friday...

I need to know where you stand on this 8 month old project:

1) Are you going to have the Argentinians finish the entire project?
2) Are you going to have the Argentinians finish some of the project and you finish the rest?
3) Are you going to consider negotiating a partial refund that would release you from the project?

OK, I need help.
I have to get a host within the next week or so.

I have hired a developer to start from scratch on the above specs building the site in .net. I asked the developer what I would need to purchase to start this website and they said the following:

Dedicated Server or Dedicated Virtual Server



· OS: Windows 2003 (or above)

· CPU: Intel CORE 2 DUO or Pentium 4

· RAM: 2GB (or above)

· Storage: 2x120G hard drives or more

· Bandwith: 5GB/month (or above)

· FTP Access

· Remote Desktop Access

· SSL Certificate (This is for information encryption).

· Dedicated IP Address

· Software Installed: SQL Server 2008 & ASP.NET 3.5

- need to be able to handle SCHEDULED TASKS for my payments and sending processes.



I personally think that this is over-kill. I would be lucky to have 10 to 20 accounts by the end of the year with about 200 to 400 users...and approx 50,000 to 100,000 addresses in the DB. In 2010 it would be stretching it to add another 50 accounts. What would you guys do and do I have to go with VPS/VDS?

I would assume that a VPS would be cheaper than a Dedicated Server.
I guess I need to go get a quote on these specs...

OK, I need help.
I have to get a host within the next week or so.

I have hired a developer to start from scratch on the above specs building the site in .net. I asked the developer what I would need to purchase to start this website and they said the following:

Dedicated Server or Dedicated Virtual Server



· OS: Windows 2003 (or above)

· CPU: Intel CORE 2 DUO or Pentium 4

· RAM: 2GB (or above)

· Storage: 2x120G hard drives or more

· Bandwith: 5GB/month (or above)

· FTP Access

· Remote Desktop Access

· SSL Certificate (This is for information encryption).

· Dedicated IP Address

· Software Installed: SQL Server 2008 & ASP.NET 3.5

- need to be able to handle SCHEDULED TASKS for my payments and sending processes.



I personally think that this is over-kill. I would be lucky to have 10 to 20 accounts by the end of the year with about 200 to 400 users...and approx 50,000 to 100,000 addresses in the DB. In 2010 it would be stretching it to add another 50 accounts. What would you guys do and do I have to go with VPS/VDS?

I would assume that a VPS would be cheaper than a Dedicated Server.
I guess I need to go get a quote on these specs...

I would start out with a VPS and see how things go. If you find you need more, a VPS can easily be transferred to a dedicated server.

Well, it's time to end this post.

I fired the developer.
I have hired the Argentinians.
They have demanded a full workflow of the entire site that we can sign off on. Sadly, this is the first time that I have been asked for a full workflow. This is precisily why I have failed so far.

This company also just works with pay-as-you-go with no money up-front and you can walk away anytime. It's nice to finally be associated with people that do it the right way. Wish me luck and thanks for your comments.

Now, if I could only find a host that would fulfill my needs at a cheap price to start. If you are interested, please go here and see if you can help me: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=941758

Thanks for all your help.

<end thread>

Good luck, I hope it finally works out for you!

Note: this post has some old history here - http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=870722
foobic had some really great comments there.
___________________________________________

I never thought that the actual development of my new startup would be so painful.

I hired the first guy to build my website and got rid of him after 5 months for not producing the product. Then I hired a good sized company in town and had to fire them after 5 months for the same reason. Then I hired a guy in town that said all the right things and now I am faced with potentially firing him after 8 MONTHS!
Sure, he hired a company in Argentina to finish me up but is very slow to pay and authorize more work.

Why can I not get my product produced?
Why do people not do what they say they are going to do?

Can anyone give me a lead on a legitmate company (or tell me where to look) that can finish the remaining 40% of a website written in (C# .NET 3.5 / VS2008 / LLBL Gen Pro / SQL 2008 Express)?
Can anyone give me a lead on a legitmate company (or tell me where to look) that can edit the future finished code for scalability without failure?

If I ever get my website running, I will need to start with a high-end shared hosting provider (with dedicated ip) that specializes in hosting applications.
Can I get some names of some companies that specializes in this and is scalable if/when the business pops?

I am so depressed that I am in this situation for a 3rd time with no real end in site. I have wasted big money and big time.
Thanks a lot for your responses!
Look, i'm from Argentina and sometimes ppl here do the jobs for the 40% of the real value of it.

This, of course, mades our country looks bad. But ppl you should look into an experienced coder, and pay him as well as you can afford.

My 2 cents. man.