I've been using Paysystems/Revecom for about a year now, and from the looks of things, they are making me lose money.

Here's why:

They don't let me know partial refunds, nor do they let me do custom charges on clients. Here are a few scenarios that have caused me greate headaches:

- Client orders a 12-month plan, which is discounted from a per month plan. At month 5 they tell me they'd like to cancel. Now I have to figure out a balance and email them a check. This is a pain in the butt! Why can't I just do a partial refund?

- Client orders a 12-month plan as above. At month 5 he decides to upgrade to higher plan. Now this is an even bigger headache. I can't just upgrade him automatically. I have to make him go through the trouble of re-ordering again (putting in cc info, name, zip, etc.). Then I have to figure out the remaining balance on his previous order and mail out a partial refund via snail mail. Again very very inefficient.

- Client wants me to do some custom work. I charge them X amount of money. Can't charge them automatically using Paysystems so I have to ask them for Paypal payment. Many don't have one, others don't want to set up one. Another pain in the butt.

- Client tells me to bill them for bandwidth usage on their account. I'm running Cpanel, which automatically restricts bandwidth usage (according to their plan as set up by me). Clients have to figure out exactly how much bw they think they might need for the month, then purchase them separately via my Bandwidth item in the Paysystems shopping cart. This often irritates the customers and some have quite because of this hassle.

So now I'm really bent on getting my own merchant account and use ModernBill. I've lost so much revenue due to the extra time and effort, along with some missed revenue due to a variety of things associated with the above circumstances.

What are your experiences with Paysystems? How do you guys handle these situations?

It's a good system, and has been pretty much the same during those 12 months. If it doesn't fit in with your model though, you'll need to look at your alternatives.

Cheers

Gary

Yes I totally agree with you... especially on the custom charges (very useful for bandwidth overage, ip fees, etc). That would save so much time here.

I have to say though, overall I'm happy with their services and fraud detection which is the reason it's staying in place.

Ah I'm not 100 % sure on this.. but

1) Partial refunds = Email revecom billing support

2) Go into your mcc and change the recurring balance (my provider does this w revecom alot) Never need to have someone signup again

3) You can setup like I have a (non recuring) cart item. I have a link for Ip's and Extra space/bw which I have these links to revecom available in forums for ppl to use.
(Ie.. after i send them email saying they went over BW, I point them to right forums thread and ask them to follow it, never had any complaints this way.

Yes Paysystems need bit improvement should give more optiones.

Originally posted by Esr Tek 1) Partial refunds = Email revecom billing support
[/B]

I've asked them before and they've never been able to offer my clients partial refunds. They are doing that now?

Originally posted by Esr Tek 2) Go into your mcc and change the recurring balance (my provider does this w revecom alot) Never need to have someone signup again[/B]

Mmc? Is that for merchant accounts? Mine isn't a merchant account with Paysystems.

Originally posted by Esr Tek 3) You can setup like I have a (non recuring) cart item. I have a link for Ip's and Extra space/bw which I have these links to revecom available in forums for ppl to use.
(Ie.. after i send them email saying they went over BW, I point them to right forums thread and ask them to follow it, never had any complaints this way. [/B]

Yes that's what I do now too, but it's such a pain in the butt. In Cpanel, you can't just set bandwidth for a month and only for that month. It will carry over forever. This means at the end of each month you'd have to go in and reset every account's bw (that you've modified). Then when that time of the month comes again client will need to go and order the BW again. That is a huge hassle for both the admin and the customer isn't it?

Yes that's what I do now too, but it's such a pain in the butt. In Cpanel, you can't just set bandwidth for a month and only for that month. It will carry over forever. This means at the end of each month you'd have to go in and reset every account's bw (that you've modified). Then when that time of the month comes again client will need to go and order the BW again. That is a huge hassle for both the admin and the customer isn't it?

If a client(s) is going over their bandwidth, unless it is a one time thing, then they have outgrown their plan. They need to upgrade to the next level - that would solve the problem of you adjusting the bandwidth.

If they are at the top level, then again, the client has still outgrown the plan and needs to permanently have additional bandwidth on their account - just in case they go over.

Would that work?

1) I don't know if they do now, I never had to try yet. Was just suggestion.

2) Your control panel

3)Yeah I see your point there. I agree w chuggles on this though.

Originally posted by Esr Tek
1) I don't know if they do now, I never had to try yet. Was just suggestion.

Jus confirmed it. They still don't offer partial refunds.

The cold grim reality is you need a payment system that fits the way you do business. If you're 'losing money' because you offer features or services you're not equiped to handle then it's not really paysystems fault.

We use paysystems as well as having two full merchant accounts. The paysystems IBA account is still our main billing processor due it's ease of use for both us and our customers.

Greg Moore

If you're 'losing money' because you offer features or services you're not equiped to handle then it's not really paysystems fault.


Agreed :agree:

I've lost so much revenue due to the extra time and effort, along with some missed revenue due to a variety of things associated with the above circumstances.


When this happens, it means you need to restructure/overhaul your billing methods. Look at how you're billing (payment processor, switch to monthly instead of anniversary billing?, etc)

12-month prepaid plans are great for cash flow. There's no way I'm getting rid of those. My main gripe is that PS doesn't allow for partial refunds at all. This leads to extra overhead and headaches, which results in lost productivity in doing other things.

Originally posted by Skeptical
- Client orders a 12-month plan, which is discounted from a per month plan. At month 5 they tell me they'd like to cancel. Now I have to figure out a balance and email them a check. This is a pain in the butt! Why can't I just do a partial refund?
You just refund the full amount and ask them to do a 1 off payment for the balance of the time used. I've done this before. We no longer do 90, 180, 360 day accounts because of problems caused with upgrading, refunding etc. By having only 30 day accounts, we don't have these issues. :)
- Client orders a 12-month plan as above. At month 5 he decides to upgrade to higher plan. Now this is an even bigger headache. I can't just upgrade him automatically. I have to make him go through the trouble of re-ordering again (putting in cc info, name, zip, etc.). Then I have to figure out the remaining balance on his previous order and mail out a partial refund via snail mail. Again very very inefficient.
Yeah, that's a pain alright. Hence the reason we only do 30 day payments. :)
- Client wants me to do some custom work. I charge them X amount of money. Can't charge them automatically using Paysystems so I have to ask them for Paypal payment. Many don't have one, others don't want to set up one. Another pain in the butt.
Why can't you just setup a custom payment for this situation? Have client complete form - you get the $$$$$.
- Client tells me to bill them for bandwidth usage on their account. I'm running Cpanel, which automatically restricts bandwidth usage (according to their plan as set up by me). Clients have to figure out exactly how much bw they think they might need for the month, then purchase them separately via my Bandwidth item in the Paysystems shopping cart. This often irritates the customers and some have quite because of this hassle.
If your client needs more resources than their current plan, have them upgrade their plan to a higher resource plan. You can just edit their recurring payment etc. Although this is a tad hard when you only do annual payments.
What are your experiences with Paysystems?
Good. Their fraud screening is excellent. They pay ontime, everytime. Their control panel is good. Now if they can just get the recurring payments to be 100% functional again, I'd be much more happier. :D

Originally posted by Aussie Bob Yeah, that's a pain alright. Hence the reason we only do 30 day payments. :)

But I like doing 6month and 12month plans because they're great for cash flow.

Originally posted by Aussie Bob Why can't you just setup a custom payment for this situation? Have client complete form - you get the $$$$$.

Yeah I can, but there are different amounts for different stuff. Do you make one up for each different thing?

Originally posted by Aussie Bob If your client needs more resources than their current plan, have them upgrade their plan to a higher resource plan. You can just edit their recurring payment etc. Although this is a tad hard when you only do annual payments.

This is what I do now. But even for 30day plans, if the client upgrades on the 2nd day of billing for example, he will basically get that whole month of upgrade for the lower plan price wouldn't he? How do you handle this type of situation?

Originally posted by Skeptical
if the client upgrades on the 2nd day of billing for example, he will basically get that whole month of upgrade for the lower plan price wouldn't he? How do you handle this type of situation?

They get the upgrade and the rest of the month at their current price. We send them an e-mail that says:

"The new fee will take effect from your next billing cycle"

I would hope your income is robust enough that you can handle these things to the customer's advantage. It's not only simple, but is good PR - worth the few dollars it costs, if any.

Greg Moore

Originally posted by Skeptical
But I like doing 6month and 12month plans because they're great for cash flow.
Watch those ones though. They can be deceptive and do not paint a true picture of your cashflow. But that's not what this thread is all about. :D

I totally agree! I had 27 transactions declined in one week. Finally a customer emailed me and said that PaySystems declined his card 5 times, on the 6th time it took it. He called his credit card company and PaySystems actually had "held" the funds for two of the transactions.

I immediately called PaySystems and told them about it. I switched from 2CheckOut to PaySystems and now back to 2CheckOut. At least with 2CO, my transactions were going thru :)

I'm now in the process of getting my own merchant account :D

Originally posted by Aussie Bob

Watch those ones though. They can be deceptive and do not paint a true picture of your cashflow. But that's not what this thread is all about. :D

How is that? Can you explain because I'm quite curious as to how it can be deceptive.

You can think it's been a slow month until you see the annual renewals. That's deceiving! :)

Gary

Originally posted by Skeptical


How is that? Can you explain because I'm quite curious as to how it can be deceptive.

He meant it toward you have to do more work to get the "true" monthly flow. When 1 month you may have 3 yr signups/renews and then no 1yr signups/renews for next 6 months etc etc..

Cashflow.... I am answering this cos it's been asked. Pardon me if it's OT.

By doing 6 months, 12 months plans, you do get the money upfront in your pocket. But a lot of people tend to spend all that money too fast. Let's play a scenario:

Assuming you have 10 annual payments in your 1st month of business and you got 120 from each (10 per month). You start spending the money this month on servers, overheads and what's not cos you are enriched temporarily. But a lot of people forgets that the cash is for service yet to be rendered. Therefore, the only way to maintain the company is to keep growing (get more annual customers monthly) But we know that almost no business can be expect to be that smooth 100%. So assuming by month 5, all the prepayments been spent and you had a barren month. But you still got 7 months of expenses to cover to render that service. What do you do then?

This is just a simple scenario, but is a commonly occuring one on how it screws up cashflow later on. This is also one of the reason why some fast growth companies goes bankrupt despite stellar growth. They spend too much too fast, invest in growth that's impossible to keep up with, and pays the price.

Generally, getting prepayments is still good for the cashflow... however... account for it properly, and match your expenses with income for services already rendered and not the prepayments. Then you will be in good shape. Make only exceptions if you think the investment is going to have benefits occuring over a few months or more. But I am sure AussieBob will say that it is a hassle (and it is)

Originally posted by silversurfer
Let's play a scenario:

Assuming you have 10 annual payments in your 1st month of business and you got 120 from each (10 per month)....

But a lot of people forgets that the cash is for service yet to be rendered.

Exactly. It's important for people to understand that there are ALWAYS two transactions.

Incoming cash, outgoing service. (You are selling something)
Incoming service, outgoing cash. (You are purchasing something)

If your incoming cash does not match the outgoing service, then you are creating a liability for yourself. You have the money in your account, but you have NOT yet earned it.

This is why many companies new to this business get into big trouble after 6 months when many customers ask for a refund on their annual fees. The host has already spent the money, and now has no more cash left to pay the liability.

As Bob and others mentioned.. it's much easier to simply do only monthly packages. If you are mature enough (and business capable), and if it fits with your business plan and style of doing business.. then quarterly or annual plans are ok. But if you are going to spend all that money right away.. you are setting yourself up for disaster if customers start cancelling and demanding refunds.

Originally posted by silversurfer
This is just a simple scenario, but is a commonly occuring one on how it screws up cashflow later on.

Because for whatever reason, not too many get past a year or so. When you have 3rd and 4th year clients renewing their annual accounts, I can assure you there's nothing deceiving about the cash flow. That's not to say one method is any better than the other, but it's not as simple as either one is the only way to go. Just our domain name registrations/renewals pay for a large percentage of our hosting overheads by themselves, so monthly cashflow from hosting alone is not always what keeps a host going.

Cheers

Gary

The reason is in the scenario ;) They spend too much too fast, and runs out of cash before the year is up. If you can hit 3rd, 4th year, then obviously you do know how to manage your cashflow. And this doesn't apply to everyone naturally. An added point is also that there's no mention on what's wrong or right cos as you rightly mentioned, there isn't one. I did mention also that prepayments can be fabulous if sufficient prudence is applied. It is just that too many companies lack the financial discipline :D You seem to have it. Therefore, keep it up ;)

Like I mentioned, it is ok to get prepayments... just to be less ambitious when it comes to spending the cash in the kitty and make enough provisions for future months.

Originally posted by silversurfer
Like I mentioned, it is ok to get prepayments... just to be less ambitious when it comes to spending the cash in the kitty and make enough provisions for future months.

Someone posted recently their philosophy on this (UMB/Incognito/?). Putting projected payments in to a seperate account. That's a good idea. We did it when we started because we only ever had yearly accounts up until last year. Then GST was introduced here, so we seperated funds further. Liabilities don't need to become a headache. The 6 P's need applying. :)

Gary

But if your operation is a continous process, meaning you don't plan on ending it after a year of operations, then the extra cash flow actually helps you in the short term. In the long term it probably won't make a difference, but for someone in their first 1-3 years of operation, it sure helps alot for growth and stability during that time.

How is PerlBill??

any idea??

Get a real merchant account

how wud a real merchant account be different from paysystems a/c??
imean i know its different... bt pls let me know the benefits & differences.

thx.

To me a 12 months plan would be a contract for a service of 12 months. So if a client wants to cancel, fine but there's no refund in that. The client has paid for a 12 month period and with that price structure. If I pay for a subscription to a magazine for a year, and want to cancel after 3 months it's highly unlikely they will refund you or change it to a 3 month plan :)

Just my ...whatever...

Nordic

You need your own merchant account so you can do whatever you want with it with batch billing.

That would be the best for you :D

1) what is a merchant account.... can anyone tell me in detail??

2) what is batch processing??

3) where can i get a merchant account??? any companies ui know?

thx.

ciao

Just a word on the custom charges - you can easily make a signup form for additional bandwidth or other one time charges using the tppro interface :) or just making a product a shopping cart product and having it be price per 1 gig of excess bandwidth etc..

JDT