Apparently the ip address for my site appears to be flagged for spam. My site is the only one using the ip as I have a dedicated server, so it must be something I'm doing. I use vBulletin for forum posts some members elect to receive email messages from the site. I just checked my email account and I've received a lot of bounced emails, one of which reads this:

(reason: 554 Service unavailable; [64.83.120.242] blocked using relays.osirusoft.com, reason: [1] WholesaleBandwidth, see http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S2067)

Is this something that is my fault? If so, how can I fix this?

I really need to fix this issue because I use zoneedit.com for DNS and they have blocked my ip for spamming as well :confused:

Thanks,

Mark

Those things really do suck. Did you try contacting your ISP or whatever it said to do on that site>

I went to the relay.osirusoft.com site and this is the info they have for my ip:

http://relays.osirusoft.com/cgi-bin/addressblock.cgi?addr2=64.83.120.242

I also ran a check and found a few places that list this ip as spam, one of them is spamhaus who ZoneEdit.com appear to check :( How can I correct this?

Mark

Originally posted by LancerForums
I went to the relay.osirusoft.com site and this is the info they have for my ip:

http://relays.osirusoft.com/cgi-bin/addressblock.cgi?addr2=64.83.120.242

I also ran a check and found a few places that list this ip as spam, one of them is spamhaus who ZoneEdit.com appear to check :( How can I correct this?

Mark

Unfortunately it appears the listing is based on your ISP hardly ever reacting to complaints of spam in that Netblock. nOT MUCH you can do its a issue with your Provider and the Blacklists. All you can do is jump on your provider

Sounds like they've screwed me over once again. What are the chances of them listening to me if I email a complaint?

Mark

you can, but remember it wont be quick, I think it took my IS head about 3-4 months to get off mosts lists

Originally posted by LancerForums

I really need to fix this issue because I use zoneedit.com for DNS and they have blocked my ip for spamming as well :confused:


Wow, did you read the SPEWS record? That's quite a nest of Spammers you've setup shop with.

http://spews.org/html/S2067.html

Kevin

Yeah, it really looks like it... I have noticed the sites moving around throughout their different connections to.. Oddly one of the sites spamming me is one of the ones the blacklist is because and for some reason the other day I traced the site back to Cogent, then it was on verio, now its on Level3 all with the same IPs and I am tracing from myhome same IP.. Someone playing hide the spammer?

I'm in the same boat within about the same range of ips. None of the ips I use are singled out but I'm pretty sure Wholesale Bandwidth and their whole netrange of 64.83.96.0 - 64.83.127.255 is blackholed by spamhaus which relays.osirusoft.com relies on for reporting even though I'm sure the majority behind those ips are responsible non-spammers.

Personally, I think groups such as spamhaus and osirusoft are worse than the spammers themselves even though they might have started off with good intentions. I understand what it is that they want to accomplish but putting the onus on the 'owners' of individual ip's to remove the already placed guilty verdict and not having the tools in place to readily rectify the situation is an irresponsible way to do business.....and I won't even go into the lame isp's who actually subscribe to osirusoft; at least there aren't many isps who respect and use that list so the bounces aren't too bad.

I'll let ya know how it's going with me, LancerForums; I'm on week two of getting absolutely nowhere with these folks.

Originally posted by zenpig
I'm in the same boat within about the same range of ips. None of the ips I use are singled out but I'm pretty sure Wholesale Bandwidth and their whole netrange of 64.83.96.0 - 64.83.127.255 is blackholed by spamhaus which relays.osirusoft.com relies on for reporting even though I'm sure the majority behind those ips are responsible non-spammers.

Personally, I think groups such as spamhaus and osirusoft are worse than the spammers themselves even though they might have started off with good intentions. I understand what it is that they want to accomplish but putting the onus on the 'owners' of individual ip's to remove the already placed guilty verdict and not having the tools in place to readily rectify the situation is an irresponsible way to do business.....and I won't even go into the lame isp's who actually subscribe to osirusoft; at least there aren't many isps who respect and use that list so the bounces aren't too bad.

I'll let ya know how it's going with me, LancerForums; I'm on week two of getting absolutely nowhere with these folks.

Well.. you are not the Owner of the IP Wholesalebandwidth is, you are his customer. He is now providing you with a lower level of service because they continually keep the spammers on their network. Look at this
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&safe=off&scoring=d&q=tropicalpills
or
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&safe=off&scoring=d&q=e54.org
to well know spam organisations on the network.

I'm well aware of WholesaleBandwidths refusal to bend to groups like Spews yet their answer is to create as much collateral damage along the way in their holy crusade to rid the world of spam as they can. While I do not enjoy spam and do not partake in it, WholesaleBandwidths network is not sub-par simply because there are are a few spammers on it....out of the whole range, did you actually note who and how many are listed as spammers? It is arrogant groups such as Spews who by simply blackholing a whole range show their true practice; unprofessional pettiness. I currently do business with a group who has 5 class C's within that range and they are anything but spammers; in fact they are very vocal against it and will boot ya off for spamming.

There's a reason not many isp's are using relays.osirusoft.com anymore. Their ideals are ok in wanting to curb spam but their methods are anything but sound and driven by a self-righteousness that can only deal with this issue in black and white. Their inability to effectively deal with issues such as mine and the group who has those 5 class C's just re-affirms this belief and I think leads most to see them not as a very well organized group out to actually do what they say they want to do....they are still just making broad statements against spam instead of attempting to give their own customers a viable tool which doesn't take out 100 non-spammers to every spammer.

Originally posted by zenpig
I'm well aware of WholesaleBandwidths refusal to bend to groups like Spews yet their answer is to create as much collateral damage along the way in their holy crusade to rid the world of spam as they can. While I do not enjoy spam and do not partake in it, WholesaleBandwidths network is not sub-par simply because there are are a few spammers on it....out of the whole range, did you actually note who and how many are listed as spammers? It is arrogant groups such as Spews who by simply blackholing a whole range show their true practice; unprofessional pettiness. I currently do business with a group who has 5 class C's within that range and they are anything but spammers; in fact they are very vocal against it and will boot ya off for spamming.

There's a reason not many isp's are using relays.osirusoft.com anymore. Their ideals are ok in wanting to curb spam but their methods are anything but sound and driven by a self-righteousness that can only deal with this issue in black and white. Their inability to effectively deal with issues such as mine and the group who has those 5 class C's just re-affirms this belief and I think leads most to see them not as a very well organized group out to actually do what they say they want to do....they are still just making broad statements against spam instead of attempting to give their own customers a viable tool which doesn't take out 100 non-spammers to every spammer.

I agree collateral damage may not be a good thing, but, think of it from this point of view.

You manage several Mail servers and the IPs you see the spam from are all from one ISP, You contact their upstream and the spammer simply moves to avoid your filters. What would you do to stop them if the ISP doesnt kick them off? I would block the whole ISP

Also, the collateral damage from my understanding is done so it makes good non-spamming customers complain to get the spammers removed.

I would say quite contrary many ISPs use relays.osirusoft.com and the numbers are going up daily with the advent of more spammers on the net. If noone used it would you really be here asking how to get off of it?

You contact their upstream and the spammer simply moves to avoid your filters.

except that the spammers cannot move to several class C's within that range..this is where spews fails.

I would say quite contrary many ISPs use relays.osirusoft.com and the numbers are going up daily with the advent of more spammers on the net. If noone used it would you really be here asking how to get off of it?

similar to LancerForums, I have a very busy phpbb2 board which sends out registration, topic watch, pm notification, etc. emails to the users...I'd say from looking at the mail logs that 1 in 90 users are effected so I'm just going by my own experience as to how many isps are actually using these lists; granted, it could be growing but I had a similar issue on a completely different network and it seemed to effect a higher percentage of users. Unfortunately for LancerForums, this is effecting his DNS which does illustrate the broad effect this list can have....and I still maintain that it is completely irresponsible of isp's to use these lists as a determining factor of spam particularly where there are other methods albeit a bit more expensive more than likely.

I will grant spews some credit because it appears they are lifting one of the classes from WholesaleBandwidths range from blackhole status(I believe it's 64.83.111.*); it's the idea that it can easily take 4 or 5 months to do so that is my complaint. Though LanceForums posted in this thread looking at what the deal was/is, I didn't post looking for a way to get my ips' off of Spews; I already know the drill and have been in contact with them...so far, it's a one way conversation. They simply have not developed an infrastructure which can expedite legitimate issues with their practice.

It appears we're just hashing out semantics, Just_Kp. I have no love for WholesaleBandwidth and their continued allowance of spammers on their network but I definately think that if Spews is going to actively maintain lists that they do it responsibly; again, to me, they are no better than the spammers by their actions and in a way, much worse.

If you are a customer of a provider that has their ip blocks listed in spews - write your provider. It is not an issue of them bending to someone asking the impossible, spews is saying - you host a ton of spammers and never take action, take action and we will remove you. Maybe your provider will listen to their own customers.

Wholesale bandwidth is not fighting the goodfight, they are fighting for money from scum and scams. They must not have a business model that is able to make money from legit hosts, so they seek the lowest common denominator. They don't have a few spammers, spews didn't overreact.

If I was on wholesale bandwidth, I would jump ship right now. Not that I am privvy to their books, so maybe they are doing great, but there is a long history showing a pattern of companies who hosts spammers failing, look at some of the big boys right before their collapse, it was a spammer dream.

Spews is doing the right thing. Wholesale bandwidth is not.

Chet

Wholesale bandwidth is not fighting the goodfight, they are fighting for money from scum and scams

I have no argument against that except that 'fighting the goodfight' is an arbitrary assignment. relays.osirusoft.com is not in this to 'fight the goodfight'; they sell their services just as WholesaleBandwidth does and again, WB does not deal strictly with spammers....the inability to differentiate is the failure..or, I should say, the inability to differentiate in a timely manner. I personally know of at least 8 classes in their range that don't allow spammers and I'd be highly skeptical that these are the only ones; perhaps a more thorough hunt is in order but a quick glance thru the actual ips that are listed by Spews definately do not even come close to the 136 or so classes left and unknown by me; it looks to me that 10 or 11 classes have been or are involved in it. Again, Spews recognizes this as well and is more than likely why classes are being lifted....very slowly. It's all fine and dandy to say 'go to WholesaleBandwidth and complain' which is done except that Spews maintains the actual list and has provided a grievance procedure; just a very poor one.

Originally posted by zenpig


I have no argument against that except that 'fighting the goodfight' is an arbitrary assignment. relays.osirusoft.com is not in this to 'fight the goodfight'; they sell their services just as WholesaleBandwidth does and again, WB does not deal strictly with spammers....the inability to differentiate is the failure..or, I should say, the inability to differentiate in a timely manner. I personally know of at least 8 classes in their range that don't allow spammers and I'd be highly skeptical that these are the only ones; perhaps a more thorough hunt is in order but a quick glance thru the actual ips that are listed by Spews definately do not even come close to the 136 or so classes left and unknown by me; it looks to me that 10 or 11 classes have been or are involved in it. Again, Spews recognizes this as well and is more than likely why classes are being lifted....very slowly. It's all fine and dandy to say 'go to WholesaleBandwidth and complain' which is done except that Spews maintains the actual list and has provided a grievance procedure; just a very poor one.

Well if you read in the google groups Wholesalebandwidth has posted to get their IPs removed claiming no spam, however out of the 7500 or so domains I control mail for at my day job I am still seeing lots of Spam from these IPs to non-existant accounts. We forward everyone of them to the proper Tier1 and Wholesalebandwidth. Looks like some are doing stuff but Wholsalebandwidth isnt removing them simply moving them from one provider to another on the same IPs. Personally and as sorry as I am to say I may be blocking large sections of their IP space shortly as 6500 bounces in the last 7 days is a bit much for me to handle

Look pretty obvious that they are not all the concerned with spammers on their network.

No action against spam on your network is tantamount to endorsing the activity. They don't want their clients blocked? Don't allow them to spam in the first place. Take aggressive action against spammers that do appear.
They obviously could care less about the IP's being black holed. All they want is the few bucks they make by allowing the spammers.

If you choose to use a provider like this, well that is your decision, if you choose to stay there? again your decision.

Maybe you should step up and purchase better quality bandwidth, isn't this basically what it is all about? I want cheap service or am willing to pay too much for the service I am being supplied. The value of the service is diminished by the actual users. I guess that is what makes a host able to provide plans with 500 Megs of disk space and 200Gigs of traffic for 1.95per/mo
:D

Maybe some of the methods of combating spam have gotten out of control, but then again SPAM is out of control.

Now we have NETBIOS SPAM, This stuff really gets my goat and so I wont even go there.

If people did not use them, then they would not use this business practice in the first place. Just basic economics, supply and demand.

I believe in freedom of press but I still dont agree with spam and the uninvited intrusion in to my mail box.

Sad part is this, people buy stuff from these guys or they would be gone. I still like the FL judgement against the spammer that made somthing like 600$ and landed a six figure fine.

What you are missing is the obvious...why did Spews stop with WholesaleBandwidth? With their own logic, Verio and CogentCo should both be taken out as well since they are the actual carriers of the data and both have their own terms of service agreements including the requirement to not send unsolicited emails. If Spews was really on a mission to stop spam, they would have gone to both of the carriers and asked them to clean up their 'network'; of course, that would be silly, wouldn't it?

Let me put it another way for extra simplicity sake. If one checks for the owner of the class of ip I work with(I have only one server within WholesaleBandwidths range and you can assume all you want what it's use is)within WB, it doesn't show WB as the primary owner..it shows the owner of that class, who is then on the WB network along with the carriers. If you check for the owners of the the classes that are involved in spam, you will find much the same thing and it is obvious that whoever WB sold the classes to are moving the spammers within their own controlled classes...

So, given the possible solution of banning individual ip's to classes all the way to the carriers such as CogentCo and Verio, the line drawn by Spews was instead at WB's network. Now, I understand the logistical nightmare of dealing with individual ip's but it doesn't take a genius to see who has direct control of classes to the end users....which leads me to the Google groups. I actually get somewhat of a kick reading those threads and there's currently an active one concerning Spews and WholesaleBandwidth. It is particularly entertaining to see the jackboots enter the thread armed with google searches and Digs who can't even interpret their own findings and am somewhat amused that they are blinded by their own fervor...which is exactly what the problem is. Spews, again, is making a statement instead of dealing with the issue professionally. Until Spews actually deals evenhandedly per their own policies by either including the blackholing of CogentCo and Verio or showing an effort to actually take out the spammers with minimum damage to non-spammers, I blame Spews.
They are a joke and really, Google shows me that.

The only reason why it is taking 4-5 months is because WSBW is dragging their feet on terminating their spammers. They originally claimed they were just "providers of bandwidth" and were not responsible for what their customers did with it. Those who use SPEWS disagree with that assertion. Then WSBW nuked a couple of spammers and then tried to say they deserved to be partially unblocked for that. Then they *lied* and claimed to have nuked a spammer, when they actually did not. They claim they did disconnect the spammer, but then hooked him back up to help the spammer move (so the spammer would have no downtime, natch). It is very rare that a SPEWS listing grows to a full ASN, getting that big takes hosting a huge number of spammers and ignoring complaints about them for a very long time.

I have no doubt that had WSBH not started nuking spammers, SPEWS would have started listing space in the transit providers next. They definitely do not get a free ride.

In the other thread about Rackspace, some bright young biznisspursohn said, "If a spammer offered you 10,000/mo to host them, you'd do it too." That sounds attractive doesn't it? That's why SPEWS escalates listings. Sure you can host that spammer, and you probably wouldn't care if your entire space got listed and all your other customers left. But when the listing spreads beyond you to your provider, and they come down on you like a ton of bricks and say, "Disco that spammer, or else!" then what do you have left? You now have no income.

Remember that SPEWS and all other DNSBL's have their power only because of the providers who use them willingly and voluntarily. There are over 300 publically available DNSBL's. Only a few have substantial subscription, and they have it because what they list is what those who use them want to block. You want connectivity to someone else's private network, then you'd better be willing to honor their conditions for doing so.

Originally posted by trif


Remember that SPEWS and all other DNSBL's have their power only because of the providers who use them willingly and voluntarily. There are over 300 publically available DNSBL's. Only a few have substantial subscription, and they have it because what they list is what those who use them want to block. You want connectivity to someone else's private network, then you'd better be willing to honor their conditions for doing so.

Exactly, Spews or any other blacklist do not make people use them, therefore you canonly get anrgy at the people who use it if you think the logic is flawed.

Furthermore, Spews is not listing you specifically or they would have you listed in their record. The IPs are assigned to WSBW and if WSBW doesnt terminate spammers and is infested with spammers then WSBW is the one being blocked spews is basically saying WSBW has moved the spammers around so much rather then waste endless days blocking individual IPs they will block it all until proven otherwise. If you ran a large volume mail server you would obviously see the logic and time savings in this.

I think I know who that group is that has those 5 Class Cs and I seriously considered doing business with them because like you said, they are against spam, but I can't have my customers suffer. That just makes me look bad and makes my life and the life of my customers hell... :angry:

Originally posted by DigitalIsles
I think I know who that group is that has those 5 Class Cs and I seriously considered doing business with them because like you said, they are against spam, but I can't have my customers suffer. That just makes me look bad and makes my life and the life of my customers hell... :angry:
You can always get your own IPs from ARIN:)

Yeah, but you need to request a minimum of 8 Class C's I believe and even so, if they are determined, they will just look what IPs are being advertised by WSBW's AS and block them all, especially knowing what their past record is, they may think it is just another scam.