I wanted to try a Windows hosting account for a change. I've always used Unix, and am aware of all of the cons of Windows, but I still wanted to try a Windows host and see how I liked it.

My acct is on a W2K IIS, and uses Hosting Controller (a Windows control panel). Maybe it's me, but after using C Panel, Ensim and some other good control panels on unix, Hosting Controller is a joke, and probably should be outlawed. :)

I cannot even see my file names in my www directory; and though under "Scripting" in HC (Hosting Controller) I have PHP and Perl enabled, I haven't got Perl to work yet. I don't even know the path to perl for Windows on a IIS server, or how to input a perl file into Hosting Controller since HC only gives the option for a text file. Anybody know the path to perl on Windows? I put in a trouble ticket over 12 hours ago with that question, but no response.

There is no path to perl in Windows, you need to blank that line out.

Well - it shows you how much you like using something called "Windows" - obviously designed for an end user and not a server, as a server. Stick with UNIX for your server needs.

Hell, even Microsoft runs unix and qmail on hotmail.com - even they know that their software can't handle under high loads and reliability requirements.

even they know that their software can't handle under high loads and reliability requirements.Do you have any numbers that show that?

Umm, how long ago did you hear that hotmail ran under unix? Last I heard, they had made the switch to windows 2k (and are probably getting ready to switch to .NET Server if they haven't already).

I've heard that part of the network is on .NET server now as a kind of testing, parallel conversion.


Mike, I love the way you're passionate about Windows and set people straight about it, thumbs up :)

Whilst HC isn't the best thing in the world, H-sphere is a great CP for windows. And penultimatly a windows server is just as reliable,stable,secure as a typical nix one (redhat for example) depending on how good the admin is of course.

Well, I know that MS.com is entirely on .NET Server, but I hadn't heard anything for sure about hotmail/msn.

Personally, I think that both *nix and Windows have their places. Both systems can be secure and both can be insecure it really comes down to the admin of the box.

Actually, I also think it comes down the the end-users of the box. If you have a shared server with 200 clients all messing about with dangerous scripts (i.e being new at scripting), then they can cause server problems. However if you just host Joe public and his gold fish website made in word then it's usually a lot more reliable

There is no path to perl in Windows, you need to blank that line out.

There is PERL availabile for Windows, it has to be installed seperately, and usually is at /Perl/bin/Perl

For not handling loads, this is server dependent. Yes, you get better efficiency with Unix than with 2000, but that is part of the cost of having a 2000 box, and you have to account for it accordingly.

For Hosting Controller - this sounds like a ISP problem. You should still be able to see your files. HC out of the box sucks yes, but if you modify it, and do not run the access backend, for the ISP it will save you 4 million headaches.

Originally posted by NodeHost


There is PERL availabile for Windows, it has to be installed seperately, and usually is at /Perl/bin/Perl



So my first line would be #!/Perl/bin/Perl?
I keep getting an error page that says executables are not allowed in the directory, even though I have permissions set for everbody, full control, and both file and directory... and have the .pl file in the www directory.

Gee! I'm feeling like I need to totally unlearn unix in order to learn how to maneuver on a win2K server. :)

Window Gurus, please help! I'm drowning!!!

If you can't operate it, don't offer/use it.

Originally posted by refcom
Hell, even Microsoft runs unix and qmail on hotmail.com - even they know that their software can't handle under high loads and reliability requirements.

They did convert Hotmail a while back, and they wrote a fascinating (and honest) paper about the conversion:

http://bsd.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/11/21/1413247&mode=thread&tid=109
http://www.securityoffice.net/mssecrets/hotmail.html

Kevin

I think the older guys are determined with Linux, because they don't realize the improvement Microsoft has made in the last couple years.

Your path seems correct, and you NEED to make sure that the directory that you have placed the perl file into has executable permissions along with any file that is refrenced, not limited to the actual perl file itself.

If you contact me offlist at farena@nodehosting.com I will be more than happy to help figure out what is going on with your stuff.

Originally posted by NodeHost
Your path seems correct, and you NEED to make sure that the directory that you have placed the perl file into has executable permissions along with any file that is refrenced, not limited to the actual perl file itself.

If you contact me offlist at farena@nodehosting.com I will be more than happy to help figure out what is going on with your stuff.
I tried
1) creating a cgi-bin under www, and putting the .pl file in there;
2) changing the name to .cgi and .plx
3) removing the perl path
4) using #!perl for the perl path
and I still get the file is in a directory that doesn't allow executables.

I think it's my ISP's problem.
Thanks for your kind offer; but I hate to bother you so I'll see if my ISP will help. I'm still waiting for them to respond. It's been over 36 hours, but it's a free acct, and I can't really complain.

Make sure that .pl files have been registered with IIS and that IIS has been told to allow Scripts to execute on your site or in that vroot. I'm not sure if this is enabled by default. You can check this in the IIS Manager (if you have access). I'm not sure how this would be done via hosting controller. I hope that helps.

Maybe it's me, but after using C Panel, Ensim and some other good control panels on unix, Hosting Controller is a joke, and probably should be outlawed.

I've yet to see any 'control panel' for Win like those on Nix, but you shouldn't have to have to be so dependent on this feature to get the site up and running. The end users don't see this anyway.


Well - it shows you how much you like using something called "Windows" - obviously designed for an end user and not a server, as a server. Stick with UNIX for your server needs.

I thought the newer forms of Win like Win2K WAS Nix based. Just like MacOS X is Nix based also, but theres still a biased against it because it doesn't have the Nix brand outright and doesn't have the same obvious features, but the core is still the same therefore the functionality and stability is comparable. People here are so Nix biased. I have a 26 page paper with just some of the Nix security holes a research study found, but this isn't something typically brought up because of all the focus on the Windows security holes that Microsoft is actually patching.

People need to consider all aspects because the platforms are beginning to merge. One of these days in the near future most likely every major OS will be based on the same OS with their own flavor. Each OS has something they are bringing to the table, Nix has a good core, Win has a good compatibility matrix, and Mac has a good GUI. If you notice, most everything is running Nix core now, and Win is designing their GUI to be more Mac-Like and Mac runs more Win programs now than ever. This is a giant leap from a few years ago.

Originally posted by banner
Umm, how long ago did you hear that hotmail ran under unix? Last I heard, they had made the switch to windows 2k (and are probably getting ready to switch to .NET Server if they haven't already).


I had a conversation with the network manager at hotmail at a convention. They never ran Linux. They use FreeBSD for the mail servers and Solaris for the backend. The only thing Windows NT does is serve graphics :)

Originally posted by Alex042

I thought the newer forms of Win like Win2K WAS Nix based. Just like MacOS X is Nix based also, but theres still a biased against it because it doesn't have the Nix brand outright and doesn't have the same obvious features, but the core is still the same therefore the functionality and stability is comparable.


Win2K is Windows NT 5.0. Windows NT was OS/2 semi-rewritten by people hired away from DEC (the VMS people). Unix doesn't really enter into it.


People here are so Nix biased. I have a 26 page paper with just some of the Nix security holes a research study found, but this isn't something typically brought up because of all the focus on the Windows security holes that Microsoft is actually patching.


Your last paragraph was reasonable, but the statement above is full of hidden assumptions about whether it's the number of holes found that matters, the number of holes fixed, the number of holes avoided by good design in the first place, the number of holes found and fixed through the benefits of open source, the timeliness and ease-to-apply of fixes, the tendency of a closed source company to be tempted to suppress information about holes, etc etc.

I have nothing against Windows. But if I had to rely on it for my business, perhaps I would, I don't know.

Kevin

Chrisb your the only bloke that keeps this forum active , nice change from reading all the scamming, fraud etc in the other threads.;)

HC is still a little rough, I have used it before and wasn't very impressed. Recomend you try Ensim for windows;)

aNc

Thanks, Myacen.

I just heard from my host. They told me that my free windows acct doesn't support perl, though their webpage says differently.

http://www.pakhost.com/?sect=3&subsect=62&pack_id=28&PHPSESSID=54872c201a31f62dc87f74df01ef5d27

So, I am cancelling my account. I can't live without perl. :)

The name of the host was pakhost.com

Maybe I'll try windows again sometime; but next time I think I want to try it with Ensim.

i think it's been said before.. but you do not need to specify the path to perl on an NT based server.

also, i ate a tuna sandwich and had violent diarrhea.

I would strongly advise trying it with H-sphere instead, it's the best Windows control panel in my opinion.

Originally posted by ChickenFart
i think it's been said before.. but you do not need to specify the path to perl on an NT based server.


Yes, I understand that is true for the most part, thought some Windows servers do require something like #!perl.

also, i ate a tuna sandwich and had violent diarrhea.

More than we want to know. :)

MS may have made improvements, but I still have to install security patches rather frequently.

Unix may have security flaws, but they are not targeted as often as MS security software. The number of people gunning for MS is far greater than Unix. Mostly this is due to MS's attitude. How often has MS promised better security and then not delivered?

Personally, im always with either FreeBSD or Linux, i am now 100% linux servers only now with only my support team using windows workstations.

I must admit that after i first bought hosting a long time ago and i was presented with the darkORB cPanel, i loved it. No doubt.

Then i tryed Plesk, HC (Win), Ensim etc. they all jsut seemed to un-powerful or less extensive in a way or two.

My webservers now only use cPanel although im thinking on the option of having a box with Ensim on for users which may prefer the Ensim Host Automation System.

I like Ensim for Windows and its OK for unix too. I don't really care for H Sphere because it uses a java applet for the file manager.

We use HC (1.4.1 Modified), and as stated before, if you modify the code to your specs so that it is not so insecure, you are safe. HC2002 made too many changes, and out right sucks. We have more switching to us for the version we use because thier provider uses the 2002 version, and it is not as versitile, and you can not do things that you can in 1.4.1.

Ensim is very expensive in comparison to HC, but you really get what you pay for. Ensim has alot of features that HC never will have, but you also pay for those. Ensim is really the best one out there right now, but at $1000 for 250 domains, it is really hard to have a 2000 Server reseller at that cost and make it effective.

Just my two cents, now slam away at me :)

Hmmm... 1.4.1 was the one that I was using at Pakhost.com. I don't know if it had been modified or not. Here is the menu if that tells you anything...

Settings
Accounts
ODBC DSN
Domains
Quota's
Folder Security
Scripting Disk
Quota
Directories
Mail Manager
Disk Usage
SQL Server Statistics
Front Page

That part of it would not show much, as what I talk about modified is the way the actual panel works behind the scenes (security setup, account setup, etc.).

Another complete possibility, is that they do not install PERL to the directory that you were asking about. The problems you were stating sounds like out of the box setup and config on a server without even the security patches that HC recommends. Also sounds like it is on its stock access database backend which causes issues because of how HC accesses itself.

Just a couple more theory's to add to the list.

Oh well, I canceled my acct there anyway because they failed to tell me that perl was disabled.

Thanks for the explanation.

The site hotmail.com is running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 on Windows 2000 and has been doing since at least "24-Dec-2000"

-Shazad

Originally posted by cabalstudios
The site hotmail.com is running Microsoft-IIS/5.0 on Windows 2000 and has been doing since at least "24-Dec-2000"

-Shazad

No wonder hotmail is down so much.

Originally posted by chrisb


No wonder hotmail is down so much.

I assure you, NT isn't doing anything besides serving graphics and their login for them to be able to say "powered by NT"

Telnet to port 80 on 64.4.8.23
Do an http get and notice it doesn't report the web server version as a default config would.

64.4.8.23 is what they link to from their main page to create an account (ie. backend).

It's still FreeBSD and Solaris running the show.

Thanks for the info. I was halfway joking, but hotmail is down quite a bit regardless of what OS it uses.

I've never had hotmail down from here.

Originally posted by chrisb


My acct is on a W2K IIS, and uses Hosting Controller (a Windows control panel). Maybe it's me, but after using C Panel, Ensim and some other good control panels on unix, Hosting Controller is a joke, and probably should be outlawed. :)



ChrisB, hosting controler is the spawn of the devil. how I have shouted that at the top of my lungs many times.

but to your point is that on windows, php and perl are a pain to configure and each box ( no matter what people say ) have quirks. Don't laugh at the following to hard: had a server that would only work if files were loaded in a very specific way, I had to load the perl first before ASP otherwise the server would not work. problem was a pain in the butt. Gave up on the box and got a new one.

Mike