Did you know that:
a.. USA supported Bin Laden and the Taliban for years, and viewed them as freedom fighters against the Russians?
b.. As late as 1998, the US was paying the salary of every single
Taliban official in Afghanistan?
c.. There is more oil and gas in the Caspian Sea, but you need a
pipeline through Afghanistan to get that out?
d.. UNOCAL, a giant oil conglomerate, wanted to build a 1000 mile pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan to the
Arabian Sea?
e.. UNOCAL spend $ 10,000,000,000 on geological studies for the pipeline construction, and courted the Taliban for their
f.. All leading Taliban officials were in Texas negotiating with
g. In 1999, Taliban changed its mind and threw UNOCAL out of the country and awarded the pipeline project to a company in Argentina?
h.. John Maresca, VP of UNOCAL testified before Congress and said no pipeline should be set until the Taliban was gone and a more friendly government was established?
After 1999, the Taliban became the most evil people in the world
j. In 2001, Bush declares war against Afghanistan, though not a single
k.. Bush blamed Bin Laden, but did not offer any proof, saying it
was confidential?
l.. Talibans offered to hand over Bin Laden if there was proof, but
m.. We now have a new government in Afghanistan, which is
n.. That the leader of the new government is one gentleman called Hamid Karzai, who formerly worked for UNOCAL?
o.. Bush appoints a special envoy (Lakhdar Ibrahimi) to represent the US to deal with the new government. This special
envoy was formerly chief consultant to UNOCAL?
p.. The US government quietly announces in January 2002 that it
will support the Trans-Afghan pipeline construction?

q.. President Musharraf and Hamid Karzai announce agreement in February 2002 to build proposed gas pipeline from Central Asia to Pakistan through Afghanistan?


.....And you thought we were fighting terrorism here, didn't you?
It is all about OIL................

.....And you thought we were fighting terrorism here, didn't you?

No, I have a brain and knew all that a long time ago.

It is all about OIL................

Duh, someone give the lad a cookie. :rolleyes:

It was very obvious ofcourse. . at least here in Europe the media point that out aswel, no clue how the US media handle it all. . .I read somewhere CNN is always behind the whitehouse (hence their "war on terrorism") .. I mean .. every traggic attack by anyone nowadays (except in Israel/Pallestina) is [1] caused by Al Quada and [2] an act of terrorism ...

There was a time when those things happened and we didn't all connect the dots instantly ...

To begin my rant you do say some true facts I give you that. But you backed none of it up.

Originally posted by jolly
Did you know that:
a.. USA supported Bin Laden and the Taliban for years, and viewed them as freedom fighters against the Russians?

Your partially wrong and your partially right. During the 70's when russia and the taliban were having their little "kiddie fights", the usa supported the Taliban, who else would they support? At this time we had the "Cold war" going on, so why in God's earth would we support russia? Then in the 80's when Al Queda came around Reagan pulled the plug on support.


b.. As late as 1998, the US was paying the salary of every single
Taliban official in Afghanistan?

As I stated before your wrong.
So far .5 of your facts are correct.

c.. There is more oil and gas in the Caspian Sea, but you need a
pipeline through Afghanistan to get that out?

Yes and the Taliban was happy with this until about half way through the project. Thye thought they weren't going to get enough money.

d.. UNOCAL, a giant oil conglomerate, wanted to build a 1000 mile pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan to the
Arabian Sea?

Logicly this was the best thing they could do.
1.5

e.. UNOCAL spend $ 10,000,000,000 on geological studies for the pipeline construction, and courted the Taliban for their

Wrong, they did not spend $10 billion. It was about $10 million get your facts straight.
1.5

f.. All leading Taliban officials were in Texas negotiating with


Haha you're funny once again wrong
1.5

g. In 1999, Taliban changed its mind and threw UNOCAL out of the country and awarded the pipeline project to a company in Argentina?


No they threw the company out period and wouldn't let anyone else in.
2.0

h.. John Maresca, VP of UNOCAL testified before Congress and said no pipeline should be set until the Taliban was gone and a more friendly government was established?
After 1999, the Taliban became the most evil people in the world


Your right about the VP thing. But we started realising what the Taliban was about back in the early 90's. Whne they started *PROMOTING* terrorists.
2.5

j. In 2001, Bush declares war against Afghanistan, though not a single

He did not declare war on Taliban. He declared war on Terrorism.
Taliban harbored terrorists so therefore we took them out.
2.5

k.. Bush blamed Bin Laden, but did not offer any proof, saying it
was confidential?

We have plenty of proof. Bin Laden Claimed to do it so then obviously we want him out.
2.5

l.. Talibans offered to hand over Bin Laden if there was proof, but

Wrong actually if my memory serves me correct. They didn't off that, they actually gave the US government wrong info (aka lies).
2.5


m.. We now have a new government in Afghanistan, which is

Yes we do, thank God established by the grand ol' usa!
3.5 Good Job!

n.. That the leader of the new government is one gentleman called Hamid Karzai, who formerly worked for UNOCAL?


Hamid Karzai did not work for UNOCAL. The Afghan's picked their own officials by using a vote system
3.5 :(

o.. Bush appoints a special envoy (Lakhdar Ibrahimi) to represent the US to deal with the new government. This special
envoy was formerly chief consultant to UNOCAL?


UNOCAL, was actually an Alaskan based company, seriously doubt they had any arabs working for them. None the less they didn't use Lakhdar whatever to Rep. the usa. It was someone else and now I can't even remember what their name was, they were a USA resident, they didn't have a weird name.
3.5

p.. The US government quietly announces in January 2002 that it
will support the Trans-Afghan pipeline construction?


Actually no, UNOCAL is long done with Afghanistan, they plain and simple got sick of it. They truck oil through other countries now.
3.5

q.. President Musharraf and Hamid Karzai announce agreement in February 2002 to build proposed gas pipeline from Central Asia to Pakistan through Afghanistan?


Never heard about this, you could be correct but can you back it up? I'll give this one to you.
4.5 :D


.....And you thought we were fighting terrorism here, didn't you?
It is all about OIL................

Out of all the facts yous displayed only 4.5 of them were correct. I personally think that some of it is to do with oil but the major part has to do with terrorism and keeping the USA safe.

Wow! Interactive you sure know your stuff.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

l.. Talibans offered to hand over Bin Laden if there was proof, but

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wrong actually if my memory serves me correct. They didn't off that, they actually gave the US government wrong info (aka lies).
2.5

However, that is wrong. The Taliban did infact say they would hand over Bin Laden if the US had factual proof that he was behind the 9/11 attacks. Although, I believe they said they would hand him over to a neutral country for prosecution and not the US.

Originally posted by flitcher
Wow! Interactive you sure know your stuff.

However, that is wrong. The Taliban did infact say they would hand over Bin Laden if the US had factual proof that he was behind the 9/11 attacks. Although, I believe they said they would hand him over to a neutral country for prosecution and not the US.


So therefore they wouldn't hand him over to the USA.

True, but there were no posts suggesting the US would receive Bin Laden.

Originally posted by flitcher
True, but there were no posts suggesting the US would receive Bin Laden.

Ya look at the post by jolly.

.. Talibans offered to hand over Bin Laden if there was proof, but

All I see is that, nothing suggesting which country would receive Bin Laden.

Originally posted by flitcher

All I see is that, nothing suggesting which country would receive Bin Laden.

He was talking about the USA so it was implied.

There are so manything which are still undercover. No one knows except CIA, ISI, FBI etc....

Internactive.....
I also heard something about ILLUMINATI...
Do you know whats it?

ILLUMINATI- claiming to be "smart" about a subject....

Yea, Interactive - your first post there was a bit pro-Bush. You talk as if he is doing all that he is doingon a mandate from the US people. He is using you all and you are swallowing it whole.

I bet that if Al Gore had won the presidency (well, he did win, actually), then the planes would never had hit the WTC. The US is in a great postion to do good in the world and Bush is just looking after his own interests and that of his buddies - it's sick.

And now Isreal can continue to slaughter Palestinians in the name of the "War on Terrorism'. All the Islam-Jew-Christian strife in the world is emanating from there and the focus is on everywhere apart from there. Bill Clinton saw it and set out to find a solution.

A world Super Power has a responsibility to do good in the world. Why the need to wage war when they could wage peace to help the human race?

Anyhow, you'll see. Bush will attack Iraq no matter what. It's just a matter of when. Then you will see terrorism like you have never seen before. Fighting terror is like fighting a hydra. If you don't solve the root problem then cutting off the head is no goot as they will sprout others.

Problems can be solved - look at Northern Ireland. I lived in London when bombs were going off left, right and center. I saw the Docklands bomb go off from near Greenwich and was at Waterloo Station when the bus blew up down the Strand. But years of negotiation paid off and things are alot better now.

You can't beat terrorism, I'm afraid - that is just the way it is. Great, the Taliban is gone but the Afganis are a cruel bunch, no matter what their designation. You think the situation is better internally now? I find your comment on that point absolutely disgusting. The US media is doing a great job of screening out the human rights abuses in Afghanistan at the moment because you have a good old pro US government there now. But yea - good job, btw. ;)

The media did a good job on you, anyway. It's amazing the power they have to direct attention to the places they want you to see.

NexDog, you're certainly right on some points; It is my impression that the U.S. and the Israelis don't quite understand understand how to cure a dicease. Eradicating (now if we imagine a miracle should happen and the U.S. be able to kill all or imprison all al qaeda ppl and all palestinian militants) all terrorists would only be a short term solution (but they'ed still say hey look we got 'em! and forget to mention that comming leaders will face the same symptoms later on) - and thus is democracy, shortsighted, shortsighted, shortsighted I cant say it enough times :). The problem is that a decease is NOT automatically cured by treating the symptoms!

These political discussions always end in flame wars, so dont expect me post argue a whole lot with you ;)

Just a lil' qoute:
("Bitter Peace"-Slayer)
"Not the last third war
Blood spills for evermore
Patriot hard line
Lay siege till the end of time"

Ya, I just needed to rant. :)

Jolly just copied and pasted some annoying email that one of his friends spammed him with (we all have those "friends"), so don't shoot the messenger. I do love how simplistic these things are presented though. Can't get enough of these types of threads, nor those annoying emails. By the time it is over, I'm guessing 10 people will talk out their donkey, 5 of those will get flamed, 3 will flame, we'll have to warn them, and ban 1 or 2.

:D :D :D

Nexdog you are right on every point !

It's a lot easier to see the forest when you aren't in the middle of the trees

Yep, except for the fact that he's not right on every point...

I love this forum for that very reason, a person that does state factual information is accused of being "Pro-Bush". I've long since given up trying to communicate with many of the dimwits that visit here and simply spam their uneducated ideologies as if it were fact.

Everything is about oil, you fools, it was and is for every country and every leader, and it shall so remain until someone gets enough sense to manage resources better, but as we know through history, that will only happen when it's damn near gone and it's too late.

Originally posted by NexDog
I bet that if Al Gore had won the presidency (well, he did win, actually), then the planes would never had hit the WTC. The US is in a great postion to do good in the world and Bush is just looking after his own interests and that of his buddies - it's sick.

A world Super Power has a responsibility to do good in the world. Why the need to wage war when they could wage peace to help the human race?

Anyhow, you'll see. Bush will attack Iraq no matter what. It's just a matter of when. Then you will see terrorism like you have never seen before. Fighting terror is like fighting a hydra. If you don't solve the root problem then cutting off the head is no goot as they will sprout others.

Problems can be solved - look at Northern Ireland. I lived in London when bombs were going off left, right and center. I saw the Docklands bomb go off from near Greenwich and was at Waterloo Station when the bus blew up down the Strand. But years of negotiation paid off and things are alot better now.

You can't beat terrorism, I'm afraid - that is just the way it is. Great, the Taliban is gone but the Afganis are a cruel bunch, no matter what their designation. You think the situation is better internally now? I find your comment on that point absolutely disgusting. The US media is doing a great job of screening out the human rights abuses in Afghanistan at the moment because you have a good old pro US government there now. But yea - good job, btw. ;)



I'm a little confused by your entire post. First off, what would who's President have anything to do with the WTC attacks? If Al Gore were president, Bin Laden would have had more incentive to attack due what would most likely have been, a less harsh retaliation plan. Next, you say that problems can be solved, but then you go on to state that terrorism can't be beat? I agree that war is not the answer, but do you think the government should sit on its hands? I don't know how that would make the general public feel safer. At least now jingoists have some visage of a better future. But then again I'm just a cynical American....;)

I agree, the level of absolute stupidity of this statement is amazing. These attacks were in the planning for years, and it's obvious, after all, they tried in 1993. Maybe I'm wrong and he's simply trying to get someone to "swallow" the BS he's spewing.

Here's a novelty for you. I don't buy government BS, nor do I buy yours.

Originally posted by NexDog

I bet that if Al Gore had won the presidency (well, he did win, actually), then the planes would never had hit the WTC. The US is in a great postion to do good in the world and Bush is just looking after his own interests and that of his buddies - it's sick.

Look all this can be solved if Washington would purchase the book. "How to Win Friends and Influence People
" Link added it's only $7.50 I think the tax payers can afford it. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0671723650/qid=1038110782/sr=2-1/002-1747007-9288803?v=glance&s=books

but they seem to like this one better "How to make enemies"

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0246644729/qid=1038111027/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/002-1747007-9288803?v=glance&s=books

or maybe this one. "How to Be Good: Or, the Somewhat Tricky Business of Attaining Moral Virtue in a Society That's Not Just Corrupt but Corrupting, Without Being complete"

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385002351/qid=1038111115/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/002-1747007-9288803?v=glance&s=books

Originally posted by jolly

I also heard something about ILLUMINATI...
Do you know whats it?

a world power org.
simular along the lines of skull and crossbones or some of the other secret societies.

and to be truthful, if they planned it I don't think they made much profit from it.

Mike

Illuminati exists to "to rule the world" (coin Pinky and The Brain theme song here) so financial gain wouldn't likely be a priority.

Originally posted by interactive


Your right about the VP thing. But we started realising what the Taliban was about back in the early 90's. Whne they started *PROMOTING* terrorists.



got to bug you guys on your facts for a while.

taliban are an offshoot political faction of power of the mujadeem ( sp? ) rebels durring the war with Russia from 1979 to 198? ( recall the start of the war and other good things but can not recall the end )

also
as late as 2001 we were happy with the rulings of the taliban because they forbid thier farmers for producing poppies and herion for drug use.

that's why, if you recall correctly, the taliban told the USA if they did not back off they would let the opioum flow again. not that it helped them in any way.

the USA did not support the taliban durring the war with the russians, only afterwards did the usa support or suppress governments in afganistan ( via political presure to pakistan or money/weapons offer to the taliban )

the pipeline deal was a dead deal from the start. if you saw the progress of the deal in the journel of commerce you would have stated the same thing too. too many countries and too many wars being fought. even the wall street journel stated it was dead back in 1998

mike

Originally posted by NexDog
Yea, Interactive - your first post there was a bit pro-Bush. You talk as if he is doing all that he is doingon a mandate from the US people. He is using you all and you are swallowing it whole.

Got A problem with me being pro-bush? Your post seems pro-liberal/gore? But I'm not here to whine about politics. He's using me? How about cause I'm a proud American who thinks that we should be able to defend/protect my self. Even if I'm not at the legal voting age, I still do have the right to voice my opinion.



I bet that if Al Gore had won the presidency (well, he did win, actually), then the planes would never had hit the WTC. The US is in a great postion to do good in the world and Bush is just looking after his own interests and that of his buddies - it's sick.

Haha your kidding? I don't think Bin Boy cared who was president. Look back in 1998, when the tried to nail WTC with a bomb. Your good ol' boy clinton didn't do jack just sat on his hands. So picture this, Gore President>Wtc Still gets Bombed>Gore doesn't respond>USA continues to get attacked. In any position your opinion does affect how you conduct actions. No matter whateverone has to agree with this. Al Gore did not win the presidential election. He tried to set it and it didn't work. He counted on a state that only has 2 democratic counties. All he did was make jackasses out of democrats (not that they weren't jack asses no pun intended). The people that him/Clinton put in seat (the supreme court) even said he was wrong.


And now Isreal can continue to slaughter Palestinians in the name of the "War on Terrorism'. All the Islam-Jew-Christian strife in the world is emanating from there and the focus is on everywhere apart from there. Bill Clinton saw it and set out to find a solution.

Do me a favor go find Palestine on the map? You see it anywhere? It died along time ago, and now people are trying to resurect it. Bill Clinton didn't do much at all in the way of fixing Israel/Palestine. He just delayed their arguments.


A world Super Power has a responsibility to do good in the world. Why the need to wage war when they could wage peace to help the human race?

Wage peace? You a *****? Then we would get our ass kicked. Think about it what would happen if we did nothing about the Taliban.

Anyhow, you'll see. Bush will attack Iraq no matter what. It's just a matter of when. Then you will see terrorism like you have never seen before. Fighting terror is like fighting a hydra. If you don't solve the root problem then cutting off the head is no goot as they will sprout others.


He is working on eliminating it, and is finishing off something Cliton should of. And thats Saddam.

Problems can be solved - look at Northern Ireland. I lived in London when bombs were going off left, right and center. I saw the Docklands bomb go off from near Greenwich and was at Waterloo Station when the bus blew up down the Strand. But years of negotiation paid off and things are alot better now.

I personally don't have a problem with the IRA even though I dont know much about them. This is just a case of a bunch of people fighting over a peice of land that the British shouldn't even be able to touch.

You can't beat terrorism, I'm afraid - that is just the way it is. Great, the Taliban is gone but the Afganis are a cruel bunch, no matter what their designation. You think the situation is better internally now? I find your comment on that point absolutely disgusting. The US media is doing a great job of screening out the human rights abuses in Afghanistan at the moment because you have a good old pro US government there now. But yea - good job, btw. ;)


Actually I've written a research paper on the after affects of Taliban ousting. You can beat anything if you put your mind/heart to it. It will take a lot but if Bush keeps going we'll get it. The situation is better yes. You know why? Because we no longer have a government that harbors terrorism there. Plain and simple. You want to talk politics? Well Clinton promoted the China/USA trade relationship. AKA he promoted human rights abuses. You want me to go on about what goes on in sweat shops?

The media did a good job on you, anyway. It's amazing the power they have to direct attention to the places they want you to see.


The media can do as they please, its theirs to do.

Bunch of pansies fighting over what..? How dare you spout your right wing drivel like it makes any sense. At least I know what I'm talking about. Get your finger off the bold key as you are in my face.

Got A problem with me being pro-bush? Your post seems pro-liberal/gore? But I'm not here to whine about politics. He's using me? How about cause I'm a proud American who thinks that we should be able to defend/protect my self. Even if I'm not at the legal voting age, I still do have the right to voice my opinion.

Nothing wrong with protecting oneself. Not at voting age? Fits into place...live a little, meditate on world affairs or something. Please, think for yourself and then voice that opinion.

Haha your kidding? I don't think Bin Boy cared who was president. Look back in 1998, when the tried to nail WTC with a bomb. Your good ol' boy clinton didn't do jack just sat on his hands. So picture this, Gore President>Wtc Still gets Bombed>Gore doesn't respond>USA continues to get attacked. In any position your opinion does affect how you conduct actions. No matter whateverone has to agree with this. Al Gore did not win the presidential election. He tried to set it and it didn't work. He counted on a state that only has 2 democratic counties. All he did was make jackasses out of democrats (not that they weren't jack asses no pun intended). The people that him/Clinton put in seat (the supreme court) even said he was wrong.
There is no evidence that Bin Laden planned 98's WTC attack. If you have some priveleged access to that, please show us. Bush's ridiculous and aggressive foeign policy is causing alot of racial tension throughout the world, emanating from the Middle East. At least Clinton recognised the problem and tried to fix it. If the US didn't support Isreal, arm it to the teeth and sit back while it rides roughshod over the Palestinian people then the Muslim nations and people would have less of a grudge. Tit for tat over there before you tell me about the Hamas suicide bombers and their tactics. Just like Northern Ireland. The IRA would bomb a pub and the Protestant paramilitaries would retaliate and then the IRA would retaliate again and then the Protestants and then.....The last bombing/shooting was always in retaliation for the last, both sides always claimed that they were just striking back - just like in Isreal now. But we are digressing.......

Do me a favor go find Palestine on the map? You see it anywhere? It died along time ago, and now people are trying to resurect it. Bill Clinton didn't do much at all in the way of fixing Israel/Palestine. He just delayed their arguments.
Just because a land was stolen doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I can find thousands of maps that have Palestine on it - pre-1947. I would give you a history lesson but I feel it would fall on deaf ears. To cut a long story short, everyone felt sorry for the Jews after the Holocaust so Churchill stabbed the arabs in the back and Palestine was divided into modern day Isreal. Never mind about the millions of native people already there.

Wage peace? You a *****? Then we would get our ass kicked. Think about it what would happen if we did nothing about the Taliban.
Sorry, don't know what a ***** is, perhaps you could elaborate? If the US took some initiative and used it resources in the Middle East, all Muslim nations would sit up and take notice. You have absolutely no idea of how much anti-US feeling there is in the world and gets worse day by day. You can't ignore it and hide behind your military might - it's a ticking time bomb. You can't see it as you are in redneckvile or the puritanical bible belt. perhaps you need to give up Sunday School or something and learn about world affairs or something?

He is working on eliminating it, and is finishing off something Cliton should of. And thats Saddam.
Actually, that is "should have" but I digress once again. Just hate to see the great British language bastardised. ;)

Anyway, you lost me. We talking oil, weapons of mass destruction (great "coined" phrase, way to go media!) or, oh yea, terrorism? Actually, I'll tell you - you have no idea of what you are talking about. All of a sudden every terrorist attack is being linked to Al Qaeda, who got there cash from Saddam or something. Seeing it with the Bali bombing - ridiculous.

It's very easy to jump on the bandwagon when you have yet sprout hairs on your nuts, not so easy to listen to a different point of view is it? Well, lets see how proud you are when the army starts sending home your brothers and sisters in body bags.

I personally don't have a problem with the IRA even though I dont know much about them. This is just a case of a bunch of pansy's fighting over a peice of land that the British shouldn't even be able to touch.
If you don't know then shut the hell up, you insult every intelligent being in the universe with your remarks.

Actually I've written a research paper on the after affects of Taliban ousting. You can beat anything if you put your mind/heart to it. It will take a lot but if Bush keeps going we'll get it. The situation is better yes. You know why? Because we no longer have a government that harbors terrorism there. Plain and simple. You want to talk politics? Well Clinton promoted the China/USA trade relationship. AKA he promoted human rights abuses. You want me to go on about what goes on in sweat shops?
Yea, I bet every junior high school student wrote a "research" paper on the Taliban. ;) What did you do, compare ABC to CNN, give me a break.:rolleyes:
You can beat anything, correct! But not with force, not always and not terror. Name one instance of terrorism in the 20th century that has been beaten with military power.
I think that "we", yes the Brits were there too, did a great job of mopping up a US made mess there. Yet again, another sad story of a US intelligence foul up. You have no idea of what your country did there and how the Taliban got so powerful. Do a research paper on that.
As for Clinton and China, don't even go there. My God, have you no sense of politics. It is only by bringing China out of political isolation that we can have an influence on how they conduct internal affairs. Again, Clinton saw that - one of the best US leaders in modern time if you ask me. But I can see you are snagged on the "liberal" thing. Well, bully for you, go and polish your AK-47 or something.

To sum up, I can remember when I was your age and I thought I had it all figured out. Ten years of travelling around the world and seeing some strange things has changed my attitude on life. America is a great place, stayed in Colrado for a while and the American people are among the nicest in the world. Your right wing, oil obsessed government is doing alot of damage and I find it very sad.

Only time will tell, I guess.

Originally posted by NexDog
Bunch of pansies fighting over what..? How dare you spout your right wing drivel like it makes any sense. At least I know what I'm talking about. Get your finger off the bold key as you are in my face.

My bad about the bold thing, choped it up with quotes and didn't do it right anyways. My right wing drivel? How dare you spout your left wing pure crap?

Nothing wrong with protecting oneself. Not at voting age? Fits into place...live a little, meditate on world affairs or something. Please, think for yourself and then voice that opinion.

I do think for myself, do I agree with everything Bush does? No, but I still support him. I've learned alot of life skills that it takes most people to learn in a lifetime (not trying to bragg), I've had to crawl up a pile of crap to get where I am.


There is no evidence that Bin Laden planned 98's WTC attack. If you have some priveleged access to that, please show us. Bush's ridiculous and aggressive foeign policy is causing alot of racial tension throughout the world, emanating from the Middle East. At least Clinton recognised the problem and tried to fix it. If the US didn't support Isreal, arm it to the teeth and sit back while it rides roughshod over the Palestinian people then the Muslim nations and people would have less of a grudge. Tit for tat over there before you tell me about the Hamas suicide bombers and their tactics. Just like Northern Ireland. The IRA would bomb a pub and the Protestant paramilitaries would retaliate and then the IRA would retaliate again and then the Protestants and then.....The last bombing/shooting was always in retaliation for the last, both sides always claimed that they were just striking back - just like in Isreal now. But we are digressing.......

FYI it was part of Israel's land too FYI! No evidence about 98's wtc? Freaking Al Queda or whatever claimed to doing it, and they are led by Bin boy. USA Support Israel? Haha Israel is probly thee oldest nation on earth. The bought arms from the USA such as f-16's just as Germany, and many other nations have. They make some of the worlds best assault rifles too.

Just because a land was stolen doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I can find thousands of maps that have Palestine on it - pre-1947. I would give you a history lesson but I feel it would fall on deaf ears. To cut a long story short, everyone felt sorry for the Jews after the Holocaust so Churchill stabbed the arabs in the back and Palestine was divided into modern day Isreal. Never mind about the millions of native people already there.

No actually Israel has had Parts of Judah for thousands of years.


Sorry, don't know what a ***** is, perhaps you could elaborate? If the US took some initiative and used it resources in the Middle East, all Muslim nations would sit up and take notice. You have absolutely no idea of how much anti-US feeling there is in the world and gets worse day by day. You can't ignore it and hide behind your military might - it's a ticking time bomb. You can't see it as you are in redneckvile or the puritanical bible belt. perhaps you need to give up Sunday School or something and learn about world affairs or something?

Nothing pisses me off more then people who take cheap shots such as yourself, you can disagree all you damn well please. But you don't take cheap shots like that. Shows what kind of character you really are. The USA did take some initiative and we did kick some ass. Not all Muslim nations will. Look at Iraq they are shoting at us.

Actually, that is "should have" but I digress once again. Just hate to see the great British language bastardised. ;)


Brittish language? We perfected it (or distorted however you see it). Got a problem with how I talk? Why don't you back your mouth up?


Anyway, you lost me. We talking oil, weapons of mass destruction (great "coined" phrase, way to go media!) or, oh yea, terrorism? Actually, I'll tell you - you have no idea of what you are talking about. All of a sudden every terrorist attack is being linked to Al Qaeda, who got there cash from Saddam or something. Seeing it with the Bali bombing - ridiculous.

Show me where I said anything about Saddam giving cash to Al...? Cause I can't find it. Is this really the best you can come up with. Debate never paid off in school did it?


It's very easy to jump on the bandwagon when you have yet sprout hairs on your nuts, not so easy to listen to a different point of view is it? Well, lets see how proud you are when the army starts sending home your brothers and sisters in body bags.

I stated my opnion just as you have. And here again you take cheap shots. Why don't you come over here and back your lame mouth up? Or do I need to come to you? I live in a country of freedom yes, we do pay for our freedom, and sad enough I could understand a friend/sibling/whatever dying.

If you don't know then shut the hell up, you insult every intelligent being in the universe with your remarks.

I guess I don't know how to "shut the hell up". You have to drag it off topic distort what I say and use false facts to back your mouth up. Yet again I say back it up.

Yea, I bet every junior high school student wrote a "research" paper on the Taliban. ;) What did you do, compare ABC to CNN, give me a break.:rolleyes:

Lets get some stuff straight. First off I'm inrolled 4 college classes. I'm talking Calc in highschool and also graduating this summer. Go get a life.

You can beat anything, correct! But not with force, not always and not terror. Name one instance of terrorism in the 20th century that has been beaten with military power.
I think that "we", yes the Brits were there too, did a great job of mopping up a US made mess there. Yet again, another sad story of a US intelligence foul up. You have no idea of what your country did there and how the Taliban got so powerful. Do a research paper on that.
[QUOTE]
Back it up boy! The Taliban I think we can say has been thrown out with force. There's your one instance.
[QUOTE]
As for Clinton and China, don't even go there. My God, have you no sense of politics. It is only by bringing China out of political isolation that we can have an influence on how they conduct internal affairs. Again, Clinton saw that - one of the best US leaders in modern time if you ask me. But I can see you are snagged on the "liberal" thing. Well, bully for you, go and polish your AK-47 or something.

You brought up human rights so I brought it up also. You don't like to hear the truth do you? I didn't ask you if he was a good us leader either. Polish my ak-47? You think I'm some mountain guy with a big beard or something? So so ignorant.
[QUOTE]
To sum up, I can remember when I was your age and I thought I had it all figured out. Ten years of travelling around the world and seeing some strange things has changed my attitude on life. America is a great place, stayed in Colrado for a while and the American people are among the nicest in the world. Your right wing, oil obsessed government is doing alot of damage and I find it very sad.[/QUOTE

Haha, only time will tell yes very true. I used to live in Colorado, worst state in the Union as far as I'm concerned. BTW I'd like to talk to you on AIM or something, would be kind of interesting. Would be harder for you to take cheap shots too.

I'm on AIM - montezumian

Lets talk. :)

By the way, wasn't trying to take cheap shots. I naturally defend myself with sarcasm - great British trait.

Originally posted by interactive
Nothing pisses me off more then people who take cheap shots such as yourself

You're the king of cheap shots :D

Ahh well me and nexdog get along now hurray,lol. We've both realised we have closer then we though viewpoints. Just thought I'd let y'all know.

Great chat, Robert - one to one is always best. :)

Nexdog, that comment about "if Gore were president..." was laughable and not germane to the issue.

BTW, I live in TN, Gore's home state, where most Tennesseans voted against him, and don't trust him. I'm not fond of Bush either.

I doubt seriously if it's all about oil. Maybe partially. The US is a capitalist society so money does play a major role in every thing our country does.

Yea, yea, maybe I was stretching things a little. I still believe Bush's foreign policy from Day 1 has been detrimental to America's health.

Duh. Ofcourse it is all about oil.

Well Afghanistan was not totally about oil. But after the 911 attacks the American masses were infuriated. The government desperatly needed a means to channel that anger to a) prevent internal unrest (mostly aimed at arab nationals) and b) show (pretend) they were in control of the situation.

To some extend overthrowing the government of Afghanistan didn't turn out half bad for the people of Afghanistan. And ofcourse there were enough terrorist training camps to make the action somewhat legitimate. God knows what The Afghans will do with their new found freedom in the next few years though. The US has (tried to) topple many governments in the last 30 years. These things often do not turn out so well (civil wars for the next 20 years...)

But Iraq is about oil. It is about keeping and expanding control in the region (not just Iraq). The US needs friendly governments and a high degree of influence in the Middle Eastern region because it needs the oil.

The US is a superpower but you can scrap "super" away if the oil supply gets cut off. All those high tech ships and planes and other equipment need huge amounts of oil to keep running. And your government will do whatever it takes to secure their access to oil. By ANY means...

..eh and it is alsy a tiny bit of a Bush family fued. "You made my daddy look stupid and I'ma gonna get you for it" :D

I just love the last quote. :D

Originally posted by interactive



I personally don't have a problem with the IRA even though I dont know much about them. This is just a case of a bunch of pansy's fighting over a peice of land that the British shouldn't even be able to touch.


Excuse me?

Who are you calling a bunch of pansies?

Edited: Bunch not punch :D

Originally posted by tazzy


Excuse me?

Who are you calling a punch of pansies?

I'm calling whatever groupo of people except the Irish that believe Ireland is there's.

Originally posted by interactive


I'm calling whatever groupo of people except the Irish that believe Ireland is there's.

Who? Which groups/countries would you say are in that class?

Originally posted by Samuel


You're the king of cheap shots :D

Links to threads samuel? Still upset eh?

Originally posted by tazzy


Who? Which groups/countries would you say are in that class?

Currently the UK.

Originally posted by interactive


Currently the UK.


So, the whole of the UK (England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland) are fighting over a peice of land which is not even under any emermy occupation in anyway AND we are all pansies as in weak and scared?

Is that what you are trying to say?

Originally posted by tazzy



So, the whole of the UK (England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland) are fighting over a peice of land which is not even under any emermy occupation in anyway AND we are all pansies as in weak and scared?

Is that what you are trying to say?

More so of England, I don't know if pansies is the right word. But thats what came to mind.

I'm sorry, but from the beginning of this thread, I read:

"It is all about OIL!"

...in the exact same manner as:

"Soylent Green is PEOPLE!"

I think this thread has had it...