So word on the street is that we are basically going to run out of IPv4 addresses in the next 2 years (with the assumption that the amount of IP's that get distributed per year stays the same or increases)

Anyways, i'm not too technically savvy about servers and etc, however what are you guys doing to prepare for this? Anyone requesting as many IPs as possible from your datacenter or dedicated server provider? What about all those customers that want a dedicated IP address? What's going to happen to them, will small hosts have to turn them away!? Will small hosts be able to enter into the business or is this going to be the end of small hosting companies? And will the market only allow for resellers of bigger companies to enter?


Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

thanks.

You'll need to move to IPv6 once the number of IPv4 adresses actually does run dry.

It seems that we are always "two years away from running out of IPv4 space."

When the lack of IPv4 addresses becomes painful we will finally see the migration to IPv6.

It's just not that big of a deal.

It seems that we are always "two years away from running out of IPv4 space."
Second that :agree:

http://ipv6.he.net/

634 days remaining.

I'm not really scared, we just need to start getting prepared for the change.

You should ask the backbones. Last I heard Internap doesn't support it, and Level3 supports it only in some areas.

IPV6 won't do you any good if you can't peer with anyone.

The ipv6 thing is a little global warming with some y2k thrown in. It's all a sales pitch by ICANN to move their new addressing system since they made large mistakes deploying ipv4.

You have companys that have /8's that are either completely defunct or outsource their infrastructure yet they hang on to the address space because everyones hoping they will be able to auction it off.

ISPs are already being declined ipv4 allocations in some instances and are being told to get allocation from the backbones. It'll be interesting what happens as the backbones continue to get pushed out by the cable providers, your gonna have ask comcast for ip's:)

So word on the street is that we are basically going to run out of IPv4 addresses in the next 2 years (with the assumption that the amount of IP's that get distributed per year stays the same or increases)

Anyways, i'm not too technically savvy about servers and etc, however what are you guys doing to prepare for this? Anyone requesting as many IPs as possible from your datacenter or dedicated server provider? What about all those customers that want a dedicated IP address? What's going to happen to them, will small hosts have to turn them away!? Will small hosts be able to enter into the business or is this going to be the end of small hosting companies? And will the market only allow for resellers of bigger companies to enter?


Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

thanks.

Well you have to think about it in this way:

Many IPv4 IP addresses will be used, but at the same time, many are dropped. Companies die out, etc...

So two years is a bit close, besides 2 years is not enough time to fully prepare a sweeping reform like that, even though we already have IPv6, there would be alot of prep work involved in the world.

besides 2 years is not enough time to fully prepare a sweeping reform like that, even though we already have IPv6, there would be alot of prep work involved in the world.
It's not like this is "new" news, or that manufacturers/suppliers/hosts/isps/transits havent had time to prepare their kit/staff/setup for correct v6 handling ...

We've been IPv6'd since 2004 !

It seems that we are always "two years away from running out of IPv4 space."Second that :agree:

Thirded. :agree:

And what if we run out? The internet's not going to explode or anything.
They're already starting to crack down on uneconomic uses of IP addresses, like spamming and IRC vhosts, so the time before it runs out should be considerably longer.

Why would the IPv4 be the end of smaller web hosting providers? There is ipv6.

How soon they run out depends on how they are managed. I recently needed a single IP for a client who wanted their own SSL on one of my servers, but The Planet will only sell a minimum of 8 ip's. So I've got 7 unused IP's I've been tying for for a year. So when I needed another IP for a different server in the same rack? I had to buy another block, they wouldn't let me use the ones I already purchased even though they are in the same range of ip's.

How soon they run out depends on how they are managed. I recently needed a single IP for a client who wanted their own SSL on one of my servers, but The Planet will only sell a minimum of 8 ip's. So I've got 7 unused IP's I've been tying for for a year. So when I needed another IP for a different server in the same rack? I had to buy another block, they wouldn't let me use the ones I already purchased even though they are in the same range of ip's.

This is basically the whole reason for the drought. Another great example is ISPs like AT&T and Comcast... we signed up for their static IP packages, and no matter what, all you can get is 5 IPs. I only really needed one, but I've given 5 - 7 if you count the network and broadcast addresses for the little "network" they set you up on. It's just silly!

If they "encouraged" ISPs to use IPs in more a sensible fashion, and then outlawed the vhost-kiddies, we'd probably have a ton more left.

And for the folks saying "we've been 2-years-away for ten years", that's true - but the reason we keep getting reprieves is because of groups being responsible. One of the large universities gave back a /16 (I think?) a while back, and if more groups follow suit we'll probably still have "2 years" in a few years' time. There are a ton of city and state networks who have /8s and /16s for example, where they could use NAT and RFC1918 addresses which will free up a lot more addresses.

And what if we run out? The internet's not going to explode or anything.

I won't go into detail, but i have heard things about the internet exploding. Just don't be stupid and do a "google search" for google, I was a bit skeptical, but lets just i know what really caused google's crash back in March 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrQUWUfmR_I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAUyaELfwBo




Anyways, I was watching some webinar and the person that was presenting it did a great job of scaring me about the shortage of IPv4 addresses but i felt that i didn't fully understand the situation. I feel like the responses to this thread have helped clarified things, and I appreciate everyones responses and comments.

Thanks.

One last thing.... have you any of you started dual stacking IPv4 and IPv6 ips, for your webserves, mailservers, and etc?

I won't go into detail, but i have heard things about the internet exploding. Just don't be stupid and do a "google search" for google, I was a bit skeptical, but lets just i know what really caused google's crash back in March 2009

The IT Crowd is absolutely hilarious, but back on topic :).

IPv6 has been around for a little while, by the time the IPv4 pool runs out, ISPs and backbones will have v6 infrastructure in place to handle the load. There are a few sites you can access which are using IPv6 already, so there really isn't a problem with it.

IPv6 has been around for a little while, by the time the IPv4 pool runs out, ISPs and backbones will have v6 infrastructure in place to handle the load. There are a few sites you can access which are using IPv6 already, so there really isn't a problem with it.

No I don't think that's quite true. IPv6 deployment is still very rare and immature right now. Most, but not all, ISPs will have some form of IPv6 service ready by the time IPv4 runs out but IPv4 will still be far more reliable and mainstream than IPv6. Many customers will have a strong preference for IPv4 over IPv6 and those that have retained a stock of IPv4 space will have an advantage over those that don't.

You'll never be able to get around the subnet allocation with a hosting company. It makes sense to issue a /29 (8 IPs, 5 usable) to a server instead of a /30 (4 IPs, 1 usable). If a customer gets a server with one usable IP and needs another then the host has to issue another /30 or a /29 and therefore uses even more address space. While I understand the technical aspect of CIDR, I think it's the dumbest system ever created from an IP waste standpoint. That being said, no one cared about IP usage 30 years ago.

Once the upstreams start to go main stream with ipv6 then it will make it easier on everyone to start using it. Remember there is still a LOT of legacy equipment that doesn't support ipv6 so there will be some pain for everyone in hardware and/or software upgrades to support ipv6.

Interestingly, one dedicated server provider I use (un-named for now, in case this is a bad thing(tm)), allocates a /32 for each IP.
That means, in your network configuration, the netmask is 255.255.255.255.

The default router is on another subnet and a route has to be added for it.
(eg, your IP is 123.123.123.123, the router might be 123.123.120.1).
And the configuration has to be something like
post-up ip r a 123.123.120.1 dev eth0
post-up ip r a default via 123.123.120.1

Has anyone else encountered this configuration before, and what are your opinions on it?

I think it's good because it makes sure every IP address is put to full use (no "network address", "router" or "broadcast" that get wasted).

I'm not a big fan of that setup from a network security perspective but there in lies the issue. If you do it this way then you open up yourself to possible issues.

The rate of usage will probably only get worse, as the internet becomes more and more popular among the older generations...

Residential ISP's, proxy/vpns are one of the largest causes of this in my opinion. If people would just learn to properly NAT residential connections then charge an obscene amount for dedicated IP space the problem wouldn't be nearly as bad.

For example:
http://www.robtex.com/as/as7922.html
58,204,928 unique IP numbers... lets face it, 90% of them probably would have no use for a dedicated IP. NAT transversal and UDP keep-alive packets basically make all the NAT "issues" a thing of the past. Programmers program now with NAT in mind..

But this topic just beats a dead horse, IPv4 is coming to an end, IPv6 is the future. Unfortunately with the end of v4 so close, and the lack of providers who support native announced v6 ranges the transition is probably going to be pretty hectic in the last year. Everyone moving hosts left and right to find someone with v6 DNS/Hosting/Servers ect ect...

Not to mention finding quality v6 home network gear is a pain in the ***...

I just wanted to chime in and say this has been a pleasure to read!

I remember being told that we were going to run out of ip addresses within a year almost 10 years ago. I call shenanigans on the whole thing.

No
Not even sure exactly what it is
Should I be?

I remember being told that we were going to run out of ip addresses within a year almost 10 years ago. I call shenanigans on the whole thing.

Mathematically we are going to run out -- it's just a matter of when. So shenanigans? No. Has the timeframe been skewed because of the imperfections of statistical forecasting? Yes.

From the looks of it, the end will be 2012 :D

I was working for a broadcast studio 10 years ago and they asked me to study this new IPv6 phenomenon..

Even at that time, a Backbone was already in place throughout Canada and the US to test and develop this protocol (in fact, a Quake version was adapted to IPv6 at that time). The threat that we'll be missing IPv4 addresses falls into the apocalyptic categories that companies uses to amplify a problem and create panic so that they look like saviors (Y2K anyone?).

Will we come short of IPv4 addresses if IPv6 fails to integrate itself into the Internet network ? Maybe

Will that happen? No. IPv6 is already implemented in many servers, throughout the globe.

It's my humble opinion. I'm not a Network engineer, but i'm certainly an individual who READS before getting into PANIC.

When the lack of IPv4 addresses becomes painful we will finally see the migration to IPv6.

It's just not that big of a deal.

I agree, once we're somewhat closer to IPv4 running out, everyone will be switching to networks with IPv6, datacenter's which haven't already will be adding IPv6..and it'll all become "normal". Until then, don't panic :)

From the looks of it, the end will be 2012 :D
I like this =)

From the looks of it, the end will be 2012 :D

I should think of a script for this :think:

A guy and a girl lives a happy life, when suddenly they can't connect to internet because their ISP can't provide them with a dynamic IP...
<insert some visuals here>
... Ipv6 network is activated at the last second before the world explodes. Now there are only a few thousand internet users left alive, but they begin a journey building up the internet from scratch...



Nah, not quite there yet :P

* Harzem goes to add some more romance and conflict into the story...

I should think of a script for this :think:

A guy and a girl lives a happy life, when suddenly they can't connect to internet because their ISP can't provide them with a dynamic IP...
<insert some visuals here>
... Ipv6 network is activated at the last second before the world explodes. Now there are only a few thousand internet users left alive, but they begin a journey building up the internet from scratch...



Nah, not quite there yet :P

* Harzem goes to add some more romance and conflict into the story...

:agree: Yeah we sure like to see some last minute panic and action and by the time everything comes to an end we all will be fine with IPV6:beer:.

Binoy

Yeah, I still wonder why the ISP's are not able to allocate private ips via dhcp and do that NAT at their end ? Anybody knows why they havent implemented one when its so easy to do it.?

Residential ISP's, proxy/vpns are one of the largest causes of this in my opinion. If people would just learn to properly NAT residential connections then charge an obscene amount for dedicated IP space the problem wouldn't be nearly as bad.

.

I think you'll see lots of unused address space clawed back from companies and institutions given massive ranges back in the days before CIDR and before the internet was ever mainstream.

Every internet residential internet provider that I have used provides 1 dhcp ip address. If you need a dedicated IP you have to switch to a business package at more than double the price.

* Harzem goes to add some more romance and conflict into the story...

Make that sex and violence and you're on to writing a true box office success. :P

As for the ipv4 coming to its end, I'm quite sure we'll adapt nicely enough. Somebody will find a way to make money out of the whole situation, and that's going to put things in order. :D

I think you'll see lots of unused address space clawed back from companies and institutions given massive ranges back in the days before CIDR and before the internet was ever mainstream.

Don't forget that the initial legacy allocations (/8's to to GE, Level3, IBM, DoD, AT&T, Xerox, DEC, MIT, Apple etc) are *owned* by the companies to which they were given. IANA cannot revoke them. They must be given back voluntarily by the owner.

Every internet residential internet provider that I have used provides 1 dhcp ip address. If you need a dedicated IP you have to switch to a business package at more than double the price.
I also have a DHCP address, however its a public IP. It should be a private IP say 250~ customers on one public IP. With a premium each month of say $10/mo for your own dedicated IP. That would shrink their IP space by ALLOT.

Make that sex and violence and you're on to writing a true box office success. :P

As for the ipv4 coming to its end, I'm quite sure we'll adapt nicely enough. Somebody will find a way to make money out of the whole situation, and that's going to put things in order. :D

I second that. :P

Don't forget that the initial legacy allocations (/8's to to GE, Level3, IBM, DoD, AT&T, Xerox, DEC, MIT, Apple etc) are *owned* by the companies to which they were given. IANA cannot revoke them. They must be given back voluntarily by the owner.

Interesting. It's probably completely against terms and conditions but it would perhaps be an idea to create an open market in IP allocations, where companies could buy and sell, perhaps blocks as small as /22.

Only problem with this is that the number of prefixes/announcements would shoot through the roof and the internet routing table would probably increase in size by at least an order of magnitude if not more, which would probably cause as many problems for people using legacy kit as moving to IPv6. :o

What it would encourage though, is more efficient usage of IPv4.

i dont mean to sound just abit off here, but by the time IPv6 is here completely everybody will be ready for it, and from a hosts point of view, an ip will be an ip....