This is a continuation/tangent of AlaskanWolf's Timmy Thread (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90981) . To keep both threads focused and ontopic, i just started a new one.

What do you(WHT consumers/merchants) propose Robert do about products and services sold on WHT through the advertising forums to reduce/prevent fraud? What rules would YOU like to see added to prevent such actions.

For example, in this thread (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91065), the user's first post was an auction of an enom account, which as many of you know is in high demand right now. In a reply, I asked specific questions about the accounts so that interested parties would have more information about the seller and therefore would have more confidence in the seller. Should the answers to these types of questions be required in every auction? What other questions/answers would there need to be to increase your level of confidence in the seller?

Other suggestions:

All auctions should be "open", ie, no bids via PM or Email.

These rules should be appended to this sticky (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71618)

Originally posted by akash
Should the answers to these types of questions be required in every auction?
I think they should be required to be asked by potential buyers so that they don't get ripped off. As far as us requiring this, no. If you blindly paypal money to people you don't know (even those you do know), you stand a chance at getting ripped off. you are the best tool to prevent this from happening.
Originally posted by akash
All auctions should be "open", ie, no bids via PM or Email.
My personal feeling on this one is that this helps the thread starter as well as the people posting bids/offers. I wouldn't have a problem making this a rule, however this doesn't address the issue of fraud, it just seems like a nice thing for everyone.

I recently held an auction (as you know) and despite requiring this, no one who bid paid. I don't hold this against the forum, I've heard that ebay has the same problem and recently won an item on ebay in which i was the only bidder and the person closed the 2 week auction after only a few days due to the same problem.

Requiring people post in the thread doesn't mean that they will pay, nor that the service will be provided if you do pay. It looks nice and seems cleaner, but honestly, that's about it.

Originally posted by akash
All auctions should be "open", ie, no bids via PM or Email.

As either a seller or a bidder, I would suggest this is a good idea but it wont reduce any risk in the final transaction without some sort of authenticated membership system in place.

Cheers

Gary

good points...and chicken with your auction the high bids were retracted 2 times (maybe 3, i forget) making the third highest bid the top bid (myself).

I think a little self policing and common sense would help everyone in the end, but we still need some sort of guidance for the newbies.

have a min. post count (100 to 200)

and for the mods to be able to ban an ip instead of just user names. People like Tim are showing up way to many times around here...

1 strike and your out rule, if there is fraud or theft etc shown with proof, the user and their ip block is banned

As was mentioned in the other thread, post count would do nothing to protect you. Well, I guess if you had to have 10,000 posts to place an ad, it would help. But, it still wouldn't protect you.

If you keep looking for the cheapest crap; you're going to end up with crap. Heck, sometimes you might not even get that.

Just use your heads.

My personal opinion would be to get rid of the advertisment forums completely. This is a discussion forum, not a market place. If the only result of the forums is that they generate bad blood and 20 page long threads in the main forums, then personally I think that this privelage should be removed.

Originally posted by AlaskanWolf
have a min. post count (100 to 200)

and for the mods to be able to ban an ip instead of just user names. People like Tim are showing up way to many times around here...

1 strike and your out rule, if there is fraud or theft etc shown with proof, the user and their ip block is banned

minimum post counts won't prevent fraud, and as chicken stated it will increase spam in the main forums

people like tim also use proxies and different IPs

I am all for a 1 (or 2-3) strike rule, but only the ip, not the whole block

Originally posted by akash
good points...and chicken with your auction the high bids were retracted 2 times (maybe 3, i forget) making the third highest bid the top bid (myself).
I was actually talking about the other server and the other bids, not yours. Just so there isn't any confusion, akash ended up being the high bidder on one of the servers after a couple of bids were retracted. He contacted me about this and I told him that he would not be responsible for the bid, and he could buy it if he wanted to. As I told him, I didn't want to sell something to someone who didn't want it.

Originally posted by AlaskanWolf
have a min. post count (100 to 200)

and for the mods to be able to ban an ip instead of just user names. People like Tim are showing up way to many times around here...

1 strike and your out rule, if there is fraud or theft etc shown with proof, the user and their ip block is banned
Mods are able to block IPs, but blocking IPs does not stop the problem. If every computer was assigned an IP that didn't change, we'd have better luck with this. We do it, but this is a limited way of preventing the problem and in som cases, it doesn't do much.

Rarely are we given *actual* proof that fraud was committed. People tell us that they were ripped off, but that isn't proof. You posted that you were jacked $65, but that isn't proof. Most often it is he said/she said and as with many of the posts, one has to decide whether or not they believe the post.

I'm still interested in those servers if you never sold them. Sorry to post off topic.
Originally posted by Chicken


I recently held an auction (as you know) and despite requiring this, no one who bid paid. I don't hold this against the forum, I've heard that ebay has the same problem and recently won an item on ebay in which i was the only bidder and the person closed the 2 week auction after only a few days due to the same problem.

Requiring people post in the thread doesn't mean that they will pay, nor that the service will be provided if you do pay. It looks nice and seems cleaner, but honestly, that's about it.

Nope, didn't sell them. If you'd like to make an offer, feel free to do so via PM/Email.

Originally posted by Fazel3
My personal opinion would be to get rid of the advertisment forums completely. This is a discussion forum, not a market place. If the only result of the forums is that they generate bad blood and 20 page long threads in the main forums, then personally I think that this privelage should be removed.

Agreed, or do away with bidding. Only allow advertising for web hosting services

if people want to bid on design templates..etc.., they can go to sitepointforums or some where else.....

thats the best idea (Fazel's) i heard all day. It will solve all the problems from the getgo

Originally posted by Chicken

Rarely are we given *actual* proof that fraud was committed. People tell us that they were ripped off, but that isn't proof. You posted that you were jacked $65, but that isn't proof. Most often it is he said/she said and as with many of the posts, one has to decide whether or not they believe the post.

Chicken...I showed as much proof as I possibly could, without fricken divulging my damn bank account ledger. I posted gif's of the paypal that was sent, and also exact quotes from Tim, and you all know his responses he made himself. What do you call it when someone refuses to refund your money? Or when a service / product is not delivered? The words fraud and theft come to mind......enough said.

This is just my personal opinion and don't flame the hell out of me. Just because their's a few bad apples, doesn't give the right to take down ad forums. This is only the second case I've heard of about bad auctions. Think about how many go on here. You should use common sense on this. I normally call the person to talk it over too (the person I'm trying to buy/sell something too). This is just my 2 cents take it or leave it.

This is just my personal opinion and don't flame the hell out of me. Just because their's a few bad apples, doesn't give the right to take down ad forums. This is only the second case I've heard of about bad auctions. Think about how many go on here. You should use common sense on this. I normally call the person to talk it over too (the person I'm trying to buy/sell something too). This is just my 2 cents take it or leave it.

That doesn't work with scam artists. When I received a paypal buyer complaint, I sent two emails within the space of a few days and multiple AIM messages. No reply whatsoever. The scammer knew he was doing something wrong and talking to him wouldn't have solved anything.

Most of the problems here on WHT stem from the advertising forums. You see things like "I replied to such and such hosts post and now they've disappeared..." everyday. Getting rid of the forums will just halve the number of "I've been scammed" posts.

Originally posted by AlaskanWolf
Agreed, or do away with bidding. Only allow advertising for web hosting services

if people want to bid on design templates..etc.., they can go to sitepointforums or some where else.....

thats the best idea (Fazel's) i heard all day. It will solve all the problems from the getgo
I don't see how doing away with bidding would solve all the problems from the getgo. If you want to solve a problem, first we have to identify the exact problem(s) and propose solutions that will address those issues. Removing bidding doesn't seem to address much of anything, aside from bidding. If this person had 2 accounts to sell, each for $100, no bidding, you still would have been ripped off.

[Edit: From the other thread it seems you weren't ripped off and the money was returned.]


Originally posted by AlaskanWolf
Chicken...I showed as much proof as I possibly could, without fricken divulging my damn bank account ledger. I posted gif's of the paypal that was sent, and also exact quotes from Tim, and you all know his responses he made himself. What do you call it when someone refuses to refund your money? Or when a service / product is not delivered? The words fraud and theft come to mind......enough said.
Verification from Paypal that the transaction occurred would be proof. However, it would still not tell us if the services were delivered or not. If the other person says they were, and you said they weren't, then we have he said/she said, not proof. This is why we do not get involved in things like this.

As far as we're concerned, Tim has done enough here to be banned, and that's about as far as we can take it. You need to contact Paypal and see if they can refund the amount, and contact the authorities regarding Tim if you feel justified in doing so.

So back to the problem. We can't stop people from ripping others off. So let's discuss some exact problems, and see if there is anything we can do here to prevent this from hapening again. One issue/solution at a time, as specific as possible. It has to be reasonable though. I think it would be a bit over the top to say, "I was ripped off $65, remove the ad forums!" Something in between that...

Originally posted by Chicken
. . . . . . . . . . One issue/solution at a tim . . . . . :D :eek: :D :eek2: :D




Sorry, but that typo was so appropriate, it made humorous sense. :D

A Freudian slip, I assure you... :D