I'm am looking for a new host and was wondering if there would be any detremental effects in using a USA host instead of a UK one (i'm based in the UK)?

I here you get a lot more for your money from the States but don't want that if the speed is slower.

Cheers
Tim

Tim,
Go with a USA company, and also be carfull who you pick. If you go with a UK company support can be very hard to get. Also , billing is anything thing :). I hope this help..

Hi,

Many UK hosting companies have their servers located in the USA, the speed difference is not noticeable.

I was thinking about CrystalTech, what do you think?

Originally posted by Paul-ukhost
Many UK hosting companies have their servers located in the USA, the speed difference is not noticeable.

I used to think the same, I can emphatically tell you that it is not the case. Just ask any one of our customers and they'll tell you the same now.

Thanks,

Originally posted by Wizzard005
If you go with a UK company support can be very hard to get. Also , billing is anything thing :). I hope this help..

What utter rubbish

if you are located in Europe and your site visitors will be mostly Europeans, then it is better to go to UK's hosting for speed matters. Believe me I have checked it a lot.

We are located in the UK but we have our servers hosted in the USA as we find it cheaper and I think this will be the case for most UK hosts.
I will argue though that are support is second to none and not "very hard to get".
If you want servers in the UK, it is going to cost you a lot more.

Originally posted by jimcarter

If you want servers in the UK, it is going to cost you a lot more.
Maybe 2 years ago, but not any more. Sure you can't get $99 RackShack deals, but then again RS are overselling hugely and had the capacity spare due to them being an ISP as well, so it all balances out - so they easily keep it going, wheras a lot of these cheapo server companies get lots of support issues (as you can see on these forums).

Originally posted by Wizzard005
Tim,
Go with a USA company, and also be carfull who you pick. If you go with a UK company support can be very hard to get. Also , billing is anything thing :). I hope this help..

You will find good and bad companies where ever you go, it's the same in all industries not just hosting.

Originally posted by Wizzard005
Tim,
Go with a USA company, and also be carfull who you pick. If you go with a UK company support can be very hard to get. Also , billing is anything thing :). I hope this help..

:eek:

If you go with a UK company support can be very hard to get. Also

anyone care to explain why uk companies offer poor support compared to a usa host?
This is not true,infact if you are in the uk go with a uk host ,your usa host might be sleeping when you need support!
we use usa servers and our ping times average at 40ms compared to the top uk hosts pinging at 123ms,so yes i see a speed difference the uk can be slower

Tim K -

I live in Yorkshire and my websites are hosted in New Jersey. No problems with time and the support is superb. Much better than my UK host, who got the boot this weekend.

I'm a victim of one2host.
Will never go with a uk host in the future!

I;m sorry guys, but all this about UK hosts offering poor support is just absolute crap, you get the same anywhere you go, no matter where in the worl. Just look at the number of people complaining about poor support from hosts in the USA - they far outweigh those complaining about UK hosts.

Incidentally even on 56k you will notice the difference between a good USA based host and a good UK host, you'll notice it even more on broadband - I never used to believe that it would make so much difference, but believe me, it really does, I've got quotes from hundreds of our customers that testify the fact after our recent move from the USA to the UK.

We host in telehouse docklands in london and believe me there is a very big difference to servers in the US. Offers bad support? what planet are you on

Hello
UK hosting will be more reliable as there are less peering points between you and the server.

Like Karl, we have moved our UK hosting to UK data centres and it has made a significant difference.
Whether the differecne is worth it, is for you to decide.
UK and US costs are no different these days.

Gordon

The costs are significantly different. The US is by default the cheaper.

Support will always be an issue of the individual companies involved, rather than the hosting country.

As for speed - I figure it's a negligable issue, excepting for mission critical applications.

The US is by default the cheaper.

Why do people keep saying this?

I suppose if you are comparing the companies who advertise in Intrnet magazine at £20 per GB then it might appear so.
But they are charging these prices to subsidise cheap equipment prices and give a low headline figure.

We used to do servers in london with 50GB of transfer for £99 but noone would buy them because in comparison to £80 per month with 5GB (plus £20 per GB overage) ours looked more expensive.
The UK market is ver, very odd and I dont think I will ever understand it.

Gordon

I agree with KDA and Gordon.

If you shop around in the UK you can get very good support and excellent speed.

The speed from UK to UK on hosting is considerably quicker, I can load sites and find the speed is instant on cable. Additionally, the pricing works differently - you'll rarely see many UK dedicated/colo companies (except the big ones e.g fasthosts who work like many large US companies) getting bashed around the boards. This is because they tend to take support as a priority as IMO it sets you aside from the competition - whereas the US tends to set aside people by price vs features which is clearly wrong.

You can clearly get a server for similar prices to the US if you're in the business. Just don't go somewhere like UK2 or Farcehosts.

Well put Gordon, Terry.

Our sites now over Cable/ADSL load like they are on my local network now, in USA they never loaded that fast, there is too much latency for it to happen.

Gordon - I didn't realise till I actually saw some of your servers the other day that you guys had moved some of your kit over, how'd it go?

Thanks,

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The US is by default the cheaper.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Why do people keep saying this?



Because for small scale hosting needs it is quite true. UK shared/virtual/reseller hosting packages are usually around twice the price of US hosts - even when we're talking quality companies.

And all for a 56ms delay on loading times? My wallet says it makes sense. Which is why I bought a multi-domain package from the US.

Originally posted by I, Brian



Because for small scale hosting needs it is quite true. UK shared/virtual/reseller hosting packages are usually around twice the price of US hosts - even when we're talking quality companies.

And all for a 56ms delay on loading times? My wallet says it makes sense. Which is why I bought a multi-domain package from the US.

I agree - just dumped my UK hosting - 300MB/4GB per month £300 ($475) a year - just check what I could get in the US for those prices! I've had a full server in the US for nearly a year, with 20GB/40GB for £62.50 ($99) a month with 100% 1st class support, assistance and reliability and if I didn't need the extra management/assistance I could get something a lot better. I havn't had any complaints about extra ms in time.

Anyone here give me a server in the UK for £62.50 a month with excellent support and management/assistance? I don't think so.

Originally posted by grandad
Anyone here give me a server in the UK for £62.50 a month with excellent support and management/assistance? I don't think so. Hum... Dedipower (http://dedipower.com/d/home/woa/) could

Originally posted by jasoncart
Hum... Dedipower (http://dedipower.com/d/home/woa/) could

Unfortunately your option doesn't compare with my present server - using your wizard, the nearest spec to it comes out at nearly £200 per month (+VAT?)! I assume that I must have made a mistake somewhere.

I'm not affliated with that company - although I did use thier service last year with a good experience

For £300 you were getting charged well over the odds, we're not the cheapest in the UK and even we can do better then that by a country mile.

Hello Karl
We have had UK servers for a long time.
At least 18 months.
So we have not moved anything over here.
We have seperate US, UK and Canadian servers.


Gordon

Ahhhhh, that would explain it then :)

Because for small scale hosting needs it is quite true. UK shared/virtual/reseller hosting packages are usually around twice the price of US hosts - even when we're talking quality companies.

Wnen you take account of VAT on the service provided and on the associated bank charges I am not sure there is that much of a difference.

We charge £1 in the UK for what we charge $1 for in the USA.

Given the current exchange rate situation that benefits us more than it used to but its certainly not double.

Sale value £1.00
VAT £0.15
Net £0.85

£0.85 = $1.57

When we set these prices the exchange rate was 1.42
so the value was £1.20

The additional is really to cover the litigation costs involved
with dealing with UK customers.
(either them suing us or us suing them)

Gordon

Hum... Dedipower could
I had a server with dedipower for 2 months and it was appaling, the uptime was unacceptable and they terminated our server for nothing, jason they stink.

The uptime was bad when they had some problems with XO a while back... solved with thier new Easynet line now.

Originally posted by jamesaspey

I had a server with dedipower for 2 months and it was appaling, the uptime was unacceptable and they terminated our server for nothing, jason they stink.

No, we terminated your server because it attracted 3 or 4 DoS which caused all the downtime. You even agreed this was the case due to your IRC bots on the phone.

We have since changed our AUP not to allow IRC bots and have not had a single DoS attack since.

Craig

Idealy you want a host that is on the same continent as the majority of your customers. If You're hostinging in the UK and have a UK server but most of your customers are located in the US then performace will be less.

If you have the money then host on servers in both the US and the UK =)

Gordon -

Given the current exchange rate situation that benefits us more than it used to but its certainly not double.

I don't mean in terms of profits - I mean that basic hosting packages in the UK tend to be in the £50-£80 range, whereas in the US you're looking more at $30-60. For rough measure, £1 = $1.6, that makes for a significant difference.

My personal feeling is that the general price of overheads in Britain is higher.

However, it all depends upon specifications, and web needs, of course.

If I had website that had an exclusive UK base, and/or close tech needs, then UK would probably be a preferred choice.

Originally posted by Wizzard005
Tim,
Go with a USA company, and also be carfull who you pick. If you go with a UK company support can be very hard to get. Also , billing is anything thing :). I hope this help..

Sorry i strongly disagree.

I am a UK Host with servers based in USA. My support is not 'hard to get' and my billing system is in multiple currency so there are no problems there.

I suggest you work out your thoughts on what UK hosts are like.

RSVP

Also my prices are no way near the mark specified in the last post unless your asking for a considerable amount of oner of my servers (10GB+ Space)!!!

RSVP

You might want to read this... I was originally going to post it on this thread, but thought it went beyond a UK / US question...

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91804

Thanks -

Mike

No, we terminated your server because it attracted 3 or 4 DoS which caused all the downtime. You even agreed this was the case due to your IRC bots on the phone.
What a load of tripe, you never did have any proof it was ever us, and there was, i think about another 8 servers running irc? your uptime was appalling and cost us alot of money and im not sorry to say so either.

You would also think that your network could take a few knocks without falling over at so much as a whistle, and i do believe you where still recieveing attacks after our server was pulled, so i suggest not blaming your shoddy network on your clients as it blatently isnt.

A few facts:

1) We did agree to let you keep your server if you stopped running IRC services. I had a 30 minute phone conversation with John Aspey to this effect late one evening.

2) The supposed 'termination' took place when your server was hit with a constant 15-20Mbps stream of random TCP SYN packets - we unplugged it and everything was back to normal. If we hadn't unplugged it your server would have been down anyway due to the DDoS attack.

3) It seems you agree with our AUP/T&C regarding attacks. Taken from your own web site:


Irc Services

Participation in denial of service attacks from Ukhs.com and Gaming.ukhs.com is strictly prohibited and the customer will be held resposnsible for any such attacks either against them or created by themselves. If a customer is seen to be recieving 'denial of service' attacks on a regular basis we have the right and will suspend any such offending accounts immediately without refund.

4) It seems you are already having similar conflict with your new ISP. From your own forums:


Unfortunately we are unable to offer dont.****-with.me.uk and women.like.to.****-with.me.uk anymore due to the isp not wanting such names going through their network.


As for proof, I think is it fair to say enough proof was when I ran tcpdump and saw 1000's of packets a second bound for your servers IP address!

I did say since we changed our AUP we haven't had another attack, not since your server was disconnected (although it certainly helped). Before categorising DDoS attacks as a 'few knocks' I suggest you do a bit of research. I saw Rackshack (with 6GigE - over 6000Mbps bandwidth) get DDoSed the other day which managed to wipe out their network for a short period. Other sites/ISPs include eBay, Amazon, Yahoo, root DNS servers, easynet, any loads more.... All have been taken down due to DoS attacks. According to you these must all be running 'shoddy networks'. Perhaps you should become a network engineer and show them all how it's done properly?

Anyway, I remember you leaving on good terms. I still wish you luck with your venture, and you've managed to iron out the problems with DoS attacks. I'm not sure why you've felt the need to attack our company in various places ever since.

Craig

We took those vanity hosts down for other reasons and not due to dos attacks, we are happy where we are now and we removed them due to the profanity they contain. Our first problem with you was you put us on a faulty UPS that took you weeks to find out about , there was also no mention of irc services being banned when we signed up and agreed to your tos, i also have proof that you where still being dossed even after our server was pulled. You also emailed me at 2pm when i was at work saying i had a few hours to get my stuff from the server, when i got home at 6pm the server had already been took offline! charming.... i would also like full proof that those attacks where aimed at us, speculation is nothing i suggest you back it up. I also find you rooting through our forums very childish and not the actions of a honest company. I would also like to state that we did leave on 'ok' terms until i found out that you where still being dossed after we where unplugged which suggests to me you used us as a scapegoat .

2) The supposed 'termination' took place when your server was hit with a constant 15-20Mbps stream of random TCP SYN packets - we unplugged it and everything was back to normal. If we hadn't unplugged it your server would have been down anyway due to the DDoS attack.

are you trying to tell me your network cant even take 15-20mbps?

thats sad

I don't think they are trying to say their network can't take 15-20mbit/s but why should they put up with having 15-20mbit/s of DDoS travelling over their network?

If any customer of ours started attracting that sort of unwelcome attention then you can bet your life we'd be having words with them.

i think they are trying to say that

- we unplugged it and everything was back to normal.

It can be interpreted both ways, in the context it was stated I would take it to mean that the TCP/SYN packets disapeared due to the host no longer being available.

The fact is they where still getting dossed after they had pulled the plug on our box, may i also add that after them doing so i couldnt even get in touch with them on the phone.. do you know how i did finally get in touch? i sniffed out a personal telephone number for one of them pretending i was a potential client, so whoever was on the other end obviously had caller id and was blatently ignoring us.

Anyway im not going to be accused of thread hijacking so i will say no more. I just dont take it too nicely when hosts who have dropped us in it get spammed in these forums.

USA is better choice...

Anyone who gets involve din IRC at any level is asking for trouble.
It attracts the worst elements of the internet.

Gordon

Originally posted by jamesaspey
The fact is they where still getting dossed after they had pulled the plug on our box, may i also add that after them doing so i couldnt even get in touch with them on the phone.. do you know how i did finally get in touch? i sniffed out a personal telephone number for one of them pretending i was a potential client, so whoever was on the other end obviously had caller id and was blatently ignoring us.

This is the last I'm going to waste my time on the matter since you obviously are pursuing some misguided vendetta.

You were calling the office. No one was there since it was after about 7pm. We weren’t ignoring you.

From what I remember, this is what happened:

- On the day in question, your server started getting DoSed at about 1pm. We unplugged it. The attack stopped. We tried to phone you on your contact number. Either your mum or dad said you were at school and to try later.

- We sent an email which got bounced because your server was offline.

- We waited for you to get in contact, but instead you decided a better action would be to sit in our IRC support room swearing and telling everyone that we were liars and also a dishonest and corrupt company. Only to be told by our existing customers it was most likely a misunderstanding and you should speak to us.

- The number you were calling was our office. Nobody was there. We were not ignoring you. In fact I was talking to you in IRC.

- I gave you a special number routed to me in IRC. And no, it didn’t trick me, I knew perfectly well it was you.

- After I explained the situation you proceeded to say how sorry you were for causing a nuisance in IRC and the multitude of abusive language left on our answering machine. You also agreed to stop IRC services until we could review the situation. We agreed to put the server back online in the morning.

- The next morning we plugged your server back in so you could get access to it again.

- You then seemed happy for a week or so, but informed me you were moving to another host. Mistral I think (who we’ve just bough connectivity off in fact!).. That was fine. You cancelled the server and that was that.

- About a month later you emailed asking for a complete refund. I refused on the grounds that you cancelled anyway, and the majority of problems were caused by attacks against your server.

As for being childish looking at your forums, why did you feel it was appropriate to come back to our *customer* forums when you were no longer a customer and proceed to post a number of abusive posts containing the same inaccuracies?

Now please stop posting half-truths and unfounded accusations about our company. By all means you can comment on your experiences (such as the UPS problems), but posting totally false information that we terminated your server without a reason and we are a dishonest and corrupt company is just not playing cricket (and it's against the law).

Regards
Craig

Craig
You did nothing wrong.
We would have done the same (probably sooner than you did)

Gordon

Originally posted by GordonH
Anyone who gets involve din IRC at any level is asking for trouble.
It attracts the worst elements of the internet.

Gordon

Absolutely agree... the difference is amazing since we've changed our AUP to ban IRC related services. No problems at all. It was certainly worth the 10-15 lost servers due to the AUP change!

I used to work at a large ISP too... who used to get regular DoS attacks because of the IRCnet server they operated. Since getting rid of the server, they've had no further attacks...

IRC is used by many responsible people, lots of techies, and you can even hang out with the likes of RIPE hostmasters and top level network engineers in huge organisations (like Worldcom, BT, etc). Not to mention some leading scientists.

However, it is also full of 'script-kiddies' and 'l33t' hackers. It is considered cool to take over a channel by using DoS attacks. I wonder if they truly consider the damage it causes, or are they really just stuck in their own tiny little IRC world? To make it worse, almost all DDoS attacks are impossible to trace. Using a DoS attack to take over an IRC channel or knock an IRC user off the channel with megabits of junk packets seems a bit like using an entire army to steal from a granny. A really really nasty side of the Internet which seems to be getting worse. A good technical debate needs to take place between ISPs about what can be done to reduce this!

Craig

Originally posted by jolly
USA is better choice...
Wow, worth it's weight in mud that comment - i.e. not a lot. :rolleyes:

It helps people a lot more if you post reasons, personal experience etc.

Originally posted by KDAWebServices

Wow, worth it's weight in mud that comment - i.e. not a lot. :rolleyes:

It helps people a lot more if you post reasons, personal experience etc. ]

My take on the whole USA or UK debate is similar to most - pick a host that is in the same region as the majority of your users.

There is also another issue which I don't think is pointed out enough with regards to the price difference between USA/UK transit.

Lets say I host a site for UK users in the USA... The ISPs that service these UK users need to purchase transalantic capacity in order to serve the USA based site. This is expensive... much more expensive than UK bound transit (which can normally just be peered for 'free' at linx, etc). As a result, overall UK transit prices are made higher because a much higher % has to be built in to pay for international transit. The host in the USA isn't generally paying for data to get to the USA and back, it is left for the UK ISP to pay. Multiply this effect, and you begin to see why UK transit is generally more expensive than USA. In the USA, most providers are really just peering - the costs are only for the infrastucture and connetivity, not the actual IP. Because the USA shifts the most data, they will always be cheaper.

However, in conclusion (if any of that made sence?), the more sites that hosting in the UK will mean cheaper UK IP transit costs, which will eventually result in lower UK hosting costs. Putting more UK sites in the USA will increase the cost of UK hosting/ISPs. So you might save a few pence by hosting your site in the USA, but you'll probably loose them again by having to pay your ISP more money, because they have to pay more to access your site from the USA.

So, if over 50% of users to your site are UK based, it is in your interests (and any one in the UK who uses the internet!) that it is hosted in the UK! It will help drive down ISP, broadband and hosting costs! (and vice-versa if your site is for a US market)

Craig

- On the day in question, your server started getting DoSed at about 1pm. We unplugged it. The attack stopped. We tried to phone you on your contact number. Either your mum or dad said you were at school and to try later.

A comment i could understand from a <<insert personal insult here>> such as yourself. You never did ring me thats complete and utter lies, the fact is you have no proof mate you really dont, and the fact that you where being dossed even after our server was unplugged suggests alot. I do not promote dos attacks in any shape or form, neither do we give ssh access to ANYONE. Call this matter closed, its all to easy to judge a conversation when really you dont know the facts, we never did get any proof from you, and from looking at your forums you where still being attacked when our box had gone, so can you explain that? i dont want to talk about this in public anymore, id rather you mail me the proof.

dedipower -

Actually, I highly suspect the difference in pricing is more suggestive of general and overall overhead cost-differences between the USA and UK, that go beyond the issues of bandwidth, etc.

The UK simply costs.

[maybe not as much as Scandanavia, though] ;)

Still, it's a definite case of what sort of hosting needs are involved. The smaller the needs, the easier it is to be less fussy about hosting location. Cost is always a consideration, but there are always others.

I have a server donated to me in Germany and rent two in the UK with dedicatedservers (hosteurope), and support is excellent. My newest UK box is hosted in london with better access to the rest of europe. The other is nottingham. The notts server finally needed a reboot today after over 430 days of uptime and being unreachable, and was done within 10 minutes of making the online reboot request. Each host is on its own 10Mb connection to its switch (not the case with the cheapest rackshack servers I think) and has two IP's, and I've been able to get over 500KB's out of the links. I'd recommend those guys every time.

Now thinking of a rackshack server though for yet more redundancy, backups, another MX etc. and as they're cheap. My g/f in hawaii, which is nearly the other side of the planet, was complaining about the UK server being slow to access today. A US server may have been better. Rackshack install very old versions of some software, e.g. php, but that's easily upgradable of course.

Originally posted by I, Brian
dedipower -

Actually, I highly suspect the difference in pricing is more suggestive of general and overall overhead cost-differences between the USA and UK, that go beyond the issues of bandwidth, etc.

The UK simply costs.

[maybe not as much as Scandanavia, though] ;)


Yes; and I was trying to outline one of the reasons (apart from BT's monopoly, exchange rate, higher living costs, etc etc). :)

Also, there's the VAT issue which doesn't help UK/Euro companies. Although this could be changing soon - however I doubt most US companies will comply and it'll be almost impossible to enforce.

Craig

I'm am looking for a new host and was wondering if there would be any detremental effects in using a USA host instead of a UK one (i'm based in the UK)?

It does not matter where the host is located as far as you are satisfied with the service. :D

Originally posted by jamesaspey
we never did get any proof from you, and from looking at your forums you where still being attacked when our box had gone, so can you explain that? i dont want to talk about this in public anymore, id rather you mail me the proof.

I have already answered that indirectly - twice. We still had servers running IRC which were attacked after you left (albeit only twice). Since we changed our AUP we haven't had any more. I'm not sure where your logic comes from - this somehow means your box was not attacked?

We are here to sell servers, not get rid of customers for no reason? There is just no logic in your allegations whatsoever.

As for your other comments, resorting to name calling and accusations just about summarises what you were like to deal with.

Treat your customer nice, and you will get treated the same way. Something you should ought to learn.

"Treat your customer nice, and you will get treated the same way. Something you should ought to learn."

And it also applies the other way round.

This is interesting..

We have a long standing working relationship with dedipower and currently have 14 servers (correct if im wrong dedipower), we class them as friends aswell as partners.

Weve had rough patches in the past, and this was due to people running IRC services. Its good business practice to introduce necessary rules to protect your majority customer base. If dedipower has 200 servers and 15 run IRC and all 200 suffer because 15 people are prone to attack, then what can you do??

We run these machines for a number of PLC's, government departments, the NHS e.t.c. e.t.c, try telling customers like this that theyre machine has been offline for an unacceptable period because other customers on the network are running IRC probably the most attack prone service and were suffering a DoS or DDoS because of this.

Hardware failures happen, if your APC failed its a shame but it happens when you run a volume of servers issues happen. If it was your server being attacked then they within their right to protect their majority number of clients, no business would turn clients off for absolutely no reason, "no please! we dont want your money..."

The bottom line being... can you blame dedipower for protecting their customers? surely not..., im certainly pleased theyve now disallowed IRC, means we can settle down to what has now become a very stable, reliable and resiliant services and I look forward to a lot of future business with dedipower.


Carl.

We run these machines for a number of PLC's, government departments, the NHS e.t.c. e.t.c, try telling customers like this that theyre machine has been offline for an unacceptable period because other customers on the network are running IRC probably the most attack prone service and were suffering a DoS or DDoS because of this.

OK, im honestly sorry, but why the hell are you paying "dedipower" all this money, when you could have easily got a rack at telehouse, or even colo'd some machines cheaper and with a better ISP (including a better deal if its to do with the govnt.)

I have to admit, that jaspey is right... They do have caller display and do NOT answer the phone when you ring, if there have been problems. They say that you are able to ring, (or when we were doing business with them) them 24 hours a day. Now i guess its just business hours. Even so, they do not even pick up during the day.

No offense to them, but they're line is actually shockly slow. If you do a traceroute to their website... www.dedipower.com you will see there are quite a few hops (after your person isp's routers). Then traceroute, for example chat.uk.quakenet.org, a server hosted at telehouse. This will just show that pings are better from that than to any of the dedipower servers. I did do a test myself at one point, and there was a considerable ping difference between the dedipower servers and the current telehouse server we have.

BTW, at one point, your AUP/T&C's were NOT actually working on your site. We've got screenshots of this btw. So actually, when the server was bought I really dont believe it was working.

One question i do have to ask, is that, when the DoS's happened, if you had setup your VLAN's correctly, it in theory should NOT affect your other machines on the LAN. Even so, im sure that if your pipe was big enough then it would have not caused a huge problem.

Did you ever find out who it was in the end, or did it not occur, or do you just not care for that reason.

I found it quite amusing though. After you had put in your T's and C's that IRC wasnt allowed, you continued to run your Java IRC help "server" on www.dedipower.com, which has recently been removed i must add.

In all. I advice ANYONE not to go with dedipower, and to find yourself a decent carrier to go with, and rent a rack, or even rent a server from somewhere, setup a finance plan with dell.

IMO, dedipower are the worst people i have done business with in the past. They have been the most unco-operative people i have spoken too.

OK, Rant over.

Other than that, on the good side, the servers that were provided were excellent, and ran well. (Except for the lovely UPS problems).

I rekon that dedipower would be VERY successful if they found themselves another decent location.

Cruz

9 hops isn't exactly an appauling traceroute, oh and one of those hops was my own router, so 8 hops isn't bad TBH.

We would never not answer a phone call if we can answer it. What do you mean: "They do have caller display and do NOT answer the phone when you ring" ? How the hell do you know? I am disappoiinted that you think we are uncooperative, we try our utmost best to please everyone. If you had a problem then I am sure we dealt with it to the best of our abilities.

The network is not slow, and we have also bought another 10Mbps leased line from Mistral which due to be installed in 64 days, and we have just improved our entire internal network and bought brand new cisco routers. In all, we have spent a lot of money getting things sorted out and it is very demoralising when people choose to say things that just aren;t true.

VLANS have absolutely nothing to do DoS attacks. The targetted IP is still routed down our line, which causes it to get overloaded and go down. The only way we can stop it is by getting our providers to block the ip, and when this IP just lkeeps changing, there isn't much you can do. All I can say is, someone else didn;t like the aspeys. It's sad though, since I don;t think (in fact I know) that the people doing these DoS attacks really know what they are doing, and how much damage they are causing.

However, I am happy to listen to everyone's views, good and bad, as we can't improve without criticism. I would prefer it though if these views were voiced directly to us, instead of potential customers that will more probably than not be perfectly happily with the service we provide.

I hope that these comments are taken in by all parties, as these sort of posts can be really damaging to a business, and I take that personally.

Thanks
Spencer

I get 14 hops (one my router and one my VPN server) , but I am in the back of beyond, but an overall 45ms average looks normal to me compared to to other providers not in London.

Cant see what all the fuss is about myself.

Gordon

Thanks gordon, nice to see we have some support for all the hard work we put in. :-)

Cruz, who are you? I can;t actually find any reference of you ever having an account with dedipower....

Spencer

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I answered this below... Craig :)

No offense to them, but they're line is actually shockly slow. If you do a traceroute to their website... www.dedipower.com you will see there are quite a few hops (after your person isp's routers).

Hmm, quite a few hops but responds ok.

From the UK via demon isdn

traceroute to www.dedipower.com - 11 hops, 50ms avg ping
traceroute to njfsearch.com (nottingham host europe) - 12 hops, 60ms
traceroute to ioncube.com (london host europe) - 8 hops, 48 ms

From Germany

traceroute to www.dedipower.com - 17 hops, 35-45ms avg ping
traceroute to njfsearch.com (nottingham host europe) - 14 hops, 28ms
traceroute to ioncube.com (london host europe) - 13 hops, 23ms

Even though there are 17 hops from germany to dedipower, the response time isn't bad.

From what I remember 'cruz' was the alias John Aspey's friend/partner used in our IRC support forums. He was certainly the other person sitting in IRC being abusive towards our existing customers after Mr Aspey's server was pulled. In fact, a quick search through our old support tickets shows somebody going by the name of 'Cruz' made a few requests for DNS changes relating to Mr Aspey's account. Really not surprising... and rather sad :)

Another point about 'hops' - it DOES NOT MATTER how many hops there are... what is important is the total round trip time. In fact, sometimes more hops is better because it means the load is spread between more routers and/or there are more aggregators in the network. I wish people who do not have the first clue about networking would stop filling these forums with nonsense. As for VLANs... well that's just complete nonsense.

Here's a trace from our network to London (Yahoo UK):

traceroute to www2.vip.lng.yahoo.com (217.12.3.11), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 as0-gw.core1.reading.rtr.asuk.net (81.29.64.225) 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms
2 QoS-1.core1.reading.rtr.asuk.net (81.29.64.5) 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms
3 bgp-gw.reading.rtr.asuk.net (81.29.64.1) 1 ms 0 ms 0 ms
4 easynet-gw.lon.rtr.asuk.net (217.206.235.5) 3 ms 3 ms 3 ms
5 fa0-0-0.linx0.thlon.router.easynet.net (195.40.0.131) 8 ms 4 ms 3 ms
6 linx1-g50.lng.yahoo.com (195.66.224.129) 5 ms 4 ms 5 ms
7 bas1-linx1.lng.yahoo.com (217.12.0.13) 7 ms 3 ms 3 ms
8 alteon1.lng.yahoo.com (217.12.6.6) 3 ms 5 ms 5 ms

Are you actually going to notice 3 or 4ms? No. Will it make any difference in speed? No. The fact is, as soon as our Mistral link is live, we'll be better connected than most so-called ISPs that just run a LAN in London. Unfortunately another area of our business is providing leased lines in Reading - so putting everything in colo in London just does not make sense. It would increase our costs (and prices), not to mention there are already 100 and 1 providers already doing an excellent job at this. Gordon and Hostroute to name one.

Craig

He was certainly the other person sitting in IRC being abusive towards our existing customers

EXCUSE ME! I was not abusive to anyone of your customers, i suggest you stop typing this complete and utter bs, because its streaming from your mouth. Not only do you provide a crap service, you are also a very good liar as well. By all means go and ask matt who i talked with often if we where abusive to anyone, and i can assure you we werent. By all means go and sift through your countless support tickets from us relating to a) the server restarting on its own accord b) the appaling uptime. You are not for one minute making me look bad in all this because its not the truth, i should of read your forums before signing up that was my fault as i can clearly see you have had major probs in the past.
Also calling me Mr Aspey does a fat lot of good, you have proofen your professionalism why the hell try to ammend it now? if you think im going to be a goat and not have an opinion OH BOY you got me wrong.

If you want to take this any further by all means do so via email please. As im not wasting this forums bandwith on this pathetic attempt to cover your tracks.

We used to have a server with dedipower. Wasnt too bad during the beginning, but on rare ocassions the connection was a bit dodgy.

But it was mostly down to easynet at the time.

Service wasnt that bad, always got an answer, even it at times it was a delayed answer.

Anyway, we are coloed now, much better than dedicated. But I rekon dedipower is a jumping off point for ppl wanting to start hosting/very busy site etc.

You two need to have this discussion off board. Acusing eachother of this and that isn't getting anyone anywhere. Take it off-board...