Cogent Communications Brings Its High Speed Internet Access to Canada
Toronto to receive Lowest Price High Bandwidth Service in the Country

TORONTO, CA and WASHINGTON, D.C. November 7, 2002 --

http://www.cogentco.com/News/news_11072002.htm

It's only CAD$ 1000 for 100Mbps.
cheaper than US for almost 35%.

100Mbps equals roughly how many GB a month?

324GB per Mbit based upon 100% usage for one month nonstop.

324000GB based upon that.

If I only lived in Toronto...

Wonder how long it will be untill they come to Vancouver :D I could see some profit in this :rolleyes:

will they offer it to hosting providers for $3000 as they do here (except of course in CAD$)

its 5000 canadian for a 100 meg connection to ISP's so the equivelent of what the US folk are paying

Steve

I called cogent to ask them about there 100mbps line for $1000 / month, and the response I got when asking why they were selling it so cheap, was not a good one. They told me that it couldnt be used to make a profit. This was the ladies exact words. Either she didnt know what she was talking about, or thats a big waste.

how come they offer so cheap bandwith. And they still exist after these prices....

How an earth do you use 100mbits of bandwidth if you dont plan to make a profit.

Originally posted by UH-Matt
How an earth do you use 100mbits of bandwidth if you dont plan to make a profit.

download mp3s, warez and porn? ;-)

- marcus

Originally posted by linuxshell


download mp3s, warez and porn? ;-)

- marcus

anyone in canada planning to get this offer? Im willing to pay for ftp access to your box ;)

LOL not used for a profit?
That is an expensive high speed internet connection for your home machine :D

Well I guess you could setup a couple game servers and have a party, send me an invitation! I like the idea of your ftp box heh ;)

I live roughly 30 minutes outside Toronto and will be moving downtown shortly, I'd be interested to hear how their service is and any further details.

If I want to move to Toronto, what kind of office should I look for?

Our location is now in toronto, the $1000cdn/100mbps only applies to "end users", if you wanta make coin off the link, it's $5,000 cdn/mo for 100mbps.

Not that it makes any impact on me, but i think its good that cogent has moved into canada(granted smal). Give the companies up there a reason to possibly lower their prices.

Lets hope cogent moving up to canada makes some of the local telco's do a 180 and think about what they're doing. Frankly a lot of the quotes i've got at 151 front just plain suck, around $900-1000 cdn/mbps for bell, at&t, and i think sprints pricing is along the same lines, $600/mbps for peer1, $850/mbps for teleglobe, etc. If cogent can stir up the local telco's to the prices that we all see in the states, i'd be thrilled to say the least.

But we always have to realize that Cogent bandwidth is not the same as "real bandwidth"...

The best prices I know of in Canada for the best service would be from Peer1, they beat out all of the larger telcos and focus on selling bandwidth. Basically they bought a ton of fiber in Canada and then the same from Montreal to New York, Toronto to Chicago, and Vancouvar to Seattle and then peered to hell in each of those US cities, giving them a great network across Canada and perfect access into the states - took long enough for someone to figure out that it doesn't turn to ice and rock as soon as you cross the border into Canada. I was actually in Peer1's MTL center a few weeks ago, its pretty nice. There are some things missing like raised flooring, but their using anti-static floors instead. I was told the Van. DC is their nicest as it was built from the ground up as a DC.

Cogent coming here will make a difference on the telcos but not only just in the sense of selling bandwidth, the bigger difference will be for end users. Once Cogent is in Montreal I know a lot of my clients who would want to switch to or at least add cogent to their offices downtown. There may also be some of the smaller DSL providers using them as an uplink as well. I think the main difference will be for end users - Canadian hosts historically havn't competed in the price games unless they are brand new, and they usually go for quality instead... This would put cogent out of the picture for web hosts in Canada.

I think Cogent moving into the Canadien market will lower prices in and around Toronto and allow for some more small scale companies to start-up.

There was a company called stream.ca in Toronto that previously offered quite cheap bandwidth via gigE. I remember a quote for $400 for a 4 Mbps, and this was before the whole cogent fiasco. Anyways, stream just about went bust and sold off to videotron, a company from Quebec. Anyways, I know they were laying there own fiber in the sewers of toronto, and surrounding area. They also had a robot laying the fiber for them. Anyone know if cogent is using this fiber or technology?

Originally posted by Haze
There was a company called stream.ca in Toronto that previously offered quite cheap bandwidth via gigE. I remember a quote for $400 for a 4 Mbps, and this was before the whole cogent fiasco. Anyways, stream just about went bust and sold off to videotron, a company from Quebec. Anyways, I know they were laying there own fiber in the sewers of toronto, and surrounding area. They also had a robot laying the fiber for them. Anyone know if cogent is using this fiber or technology?

I believe Cogent in toronto now owns what was once stream, or the fiber, along with all of Allied Riser which had a relatively large office in Toronto. Cogent kept the Allied Riser employee's to the best of my knowledge and still operates under both names in Toronto doing VOIP applications.

No, I don't know... but how much are these fiber robots?

Here in Montreal the Gas Company lays a lot of fiber down. Anytime they run new gas lines, they throw in some fiber. Makes for great pricing on plain old fiber with nothing else access.

Originally posted by porcupine


I believe Cogent in toronto now owns what was once stream, or the fiber, along with all of Allied Riser which had a relatively large office in Toronto. Cogent kept the Allied Riser employee's to the best of my knowledge and still operates under both names in Toronto doing VOIP applications.
I'll have to get someone I know to pay the old stream office a visit. My family owns 2 restaraunts in that building :)

Since allot of new apartments are built with fiber in them. Won't it be a good idea to use Cogent? Not sure if Cogent lights up apartment buildings.

Come on Cogent! GET INTO EUROPE!!!! (UK!!!)

Better yet, Edinburgh...Scotland!

hahaha ThomasC, we could do with affordable 2mbit lines over here let alone 100mbits.

Depends where you live, you can get 2mbit fairly cheap if you live in a big city - same deal with Cogent in the USA really, you have to be in the right area to get it.

I was quoted £850 per month for a 2MBit from Demon
at my location in West Lothian.
I currently pay £550 per month for a 256k

Gordon

Much £££.

Still, glad to see cogent expanding.

£850 for 2mbit is nothing.

I'd rather not see Cogent in the UK, it would damage too many decent carriers who already give decent prices and service.

I disagree, The quality bandwidth would still be there for those who want it. The UK's internet connections are very slow, we are the "poor man of Europe" when it comes to internet.

Tony Blair has said he's going to give £1 billion for improving it, but if we had cogent, I think it would help VERY much, cogent could connect our schools and other public places, and work with the goverment mabye.

<joke> Oh!, Telewest/Cogent.... LOL :) </joke>

Of course, this is just my 2cents, I don't want to start a argument or nothing though :)

Correction, connections to homes in the UK are very slow, but when it comes to transit then we've actually got some very good connections in the UK. I believe I'm right in saying that quite a lot of traffic from Europe to USA goes through the UK near Lands End (Can't remember the name of the place for the life of me right now).

Cogent wouldn't help - They don't have their own network, they are not Teir 1, so it wouldn't help all that much.

Originally posted by KDAWebServices
Correction, connections to homes in the UK are very slow, but when it comes to transit then we've actually got some very good connections in the UK. I believe I'm right in saying that quite a lot of traffic from Europe to USA goes through the UK near Lands End (Can't remember the name of the place for the life of me right now).

Cogent wouldn't help - They don't have their own network, they are not Teir 1, so it wouldn't help all that much.

Cogent doesen't have their own network? Let me know whose forking off the 8xoc192's for their backbone so inexpensively, i could use a few of those :D. Seriously, haven't you even looked at their network map? :eek:

Originally posted by Gary0704
Cogent Communications Brings Its High Speed Internet Access to Canada
Toronto to receive Lowest Price High Bandwidth Service in the Country

TORONTO, CA and WASHINGTON, D.C. November 7, 2002 --

http://www.cogentco.com/News/news_11072002.htm

It's only CAD$ 1000 for 100Mbps.
cheaper than US for almost 35%.

Must be a joke!

*sigh* the unwashed ignorant, i give up :rolleyes: :D

OK, let me clarify, by not having their own Network I meant a Nationwide Fiber network. If they did then you wouldn't see so many horrible 400ms pings as they bounce round trying to stay on their own segments for as long as possible.

Originally posted by KDAWebServices
OK, let me clarify, by not having their own Network I meant a Nationwide Fiber network. If they did then you wouldn't see so many horrible 400ms pings as they bounce round trying to stay on their own segments for as long as possible.

Do you seriously have any clue what you are talking about?

http://www.cogentco.com/Difference/network_map.html

Is that not nation wide (though its missing some of their new hops), they have a nationwide fiber network, they use cisco ONR 15454 routers last i checked (which aren't cheap, they cost about the same amount as a decent house), and the amount of hops over an ISP's network, well that just defines how they want their traffic routed, which is their choice, they do so to save money to bring you a good product at a great price. Seriously, think before you speak before you get your foot stuck so far down your throat you have trouble removing it :eek: :D

I stand corrected, still not what I'd class as completely national, but then again the USA is a big palce to cover.

Actually
We do have an equivalnet.
Its called Band-x

They buy up spare capacitry and try and amalgamate it.
Its truly awful.
I had 4 months on it for the office connection and it
undoubtedly shortened my life.

£850 for 2MBit from a main carrier like Demon is very good value when you consider we are in the middle of nowhere.

Gordon

£850 is very good, wish we could get the same price round our office. We were looking at nearly that for 64k leased line :(

Originally posted by porcupine


Cogent doesen't have their own network? Let me know whose forking off the 8xoc192's for their backbone so inexpensively, i could use a few of those :D. Seriously, haven't you even looked at their network map? :eek:

Cisco is the answer. Isn't their equipment 100% Cisco? As long as Cisco still backs them, they will continue to grow.

Originally posted by ClusterMania


Cisco is the answer. Isn't their equipment 100% Cisco? As long as Cisco still backs them, they will continue to grow.

Their equipment is mostly cisco (who can complain about that eh?), but they do use other brands for locations where a lot of dwdn (eg. lots of ocx's over 1 strand of fiber) are required as the cisco dwdm equipment can only do 32 waves per fiber i believe (im most likely wrong there, but you get the idea).

lol... now people start picking on their equipment? :D anyway, it is good news to me there are in Toronto now... anyone going to offer it? :D I will be glad to sign on a box for testing.

Originally posted by porcupine


Cogent doesen't have their own network? Let me know whose forking off the 8xoc192's for their backbone so inexpensively, i could use a few of those :D. Seriously, haven't you even looked at their network map? :eek:

Myles you think they serve Oakville at all? I'll call 'em up and find out. Wouldn't that be sweet...

100mbps cogent line to my house. Dammn! Just the thought makes me...:D

Originally posted by 311


Myles you think they serve Oakville at all? I'll call 'em up and find out. Wouldn't that be sweet...

100mbps cogent line to my house. Dammn! Just the thought makes me...:D

No, they dont, you could always buy a 100mbps line to my cage in Toronto and then have a fiber link to your house, i know our uplink runs a few inter-city networks, and they say its usually around $2k/mo per city for the looping, and 2k/mo in between for the cross-country (around 6k/100mbps link for just internal network), so maybe you can afford a fat pipe to your house :D, if not, get a really really fast dsl setup and a dsl router (dsl modems can do what? 10+mbps consistently, sdsl i believe can do much more), and get a 100mbps link and leave the other half unused :D.

Nah I don't even have that kind of money anyways...:D

On a side note, routes are pretty amazing from my house (to your new pipe):


1 30 ms 9 ms 24 ms 10.66.224.1
2 37 ms 18 ms 33 ms cgowave-0-28.cgocable.net [24.226.0.28]
3 13 ms 84 ms 36 ms cgowave-0-197.cgocable.net [24.226.0.197]
4 21 ms 31 ms 57 ms 199.45.118.25
5 19 ms 17 ms 31 ms ip28-167.tor.colo.istop.com [66.11.167.28]
6 48 ms 70 ms 28 ms prioritycolo.com [66.11.162.3]

Trace complete.


:cartman:

Hrm - Im going to be calling Cogent tomorrow about this.. I live about 25 mins away from Toronto..

311: Hrm, thats not that amazing, i get the following from hamilton:


Tracing route to prioritycolo.com [66.11.162.3]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 * * * Request timed out.
2 15 ms 10 ms 10 ms d226-5-225.home.cgocable.net [24.226.5.225]
3 10 ms 7 ms 9 ms d226-5-229.home.cgocable.net [24.226.5.229]
4 8 ms 9 ms 7 ms d226-5-250.home.cgocable.net [24.226.5.250]
5 10 ms 9 ms 9 ms cgowave-0-165.cgocable.net [24.226.0.165]
6 11 ms 10 ms 11 ms 199.45.118.25
7 9 ms 9 ms 10 ms ip28-167.tor.colo.istop.com [66.11.167.28]
8 11 ms 13 ms 13 ms prioritycolo.com [66.11.162.3]

Originally posted by UH-Matt
How an earth do you use 100mbits of bandwidth if you dont plan to make a profit.

Mayble share a 100MB it some friends ? Share it on a comercial our residen. building ?


Just some ideias :)

Originally posted by KDAWebServices
£850 for 2mbit is nothing.

I'd rather not see Cogent in the UK, it would damage too many decent carriers who already give decent prices and service.

I look foward to see and dream off congent moving to Brasil too :)


Brasil - Sao Paulo it's a very very very large market...

Sao Paulo = 70 % the Brasil "PIB" ( can't remeber the right word for PIB )

( PIB = Produto Interno Bruto | Product Internal Gross Gain )

the non isp bandwidth is aimed at offices and universities. what the somewhat bewlidered lady was trying to say was that you cant reseller upstream but can if you wish resell downstream. this reason for this is simple. cogent want more data to peer onto their network and stay on to end user, and they want less data to peer off to their peering partners which costs them money one way or another. i.e. isp style useage of their network = good for cogent, datacentre style useage = bad as it costs more money.

as regards cisco, cogents backbone is oc48 which they have iru off williams i believe, they then 8x it with dwdm and lease williams back the initial transit they bought. to the best of my knowledge they only use cisco, and they only use 8x. i could be very wrong here. i also remember them saying their network 'could' go to 128 colours, i assumed this meant with cisco kit. ill leave a definitive answer to this to someone who knows for definate.

cogents backbone is national, but they are not tier 1 by its truest definition. they have no international peering last time i saw. their bandwidth is however far superior to bandx who are truely hateful and to any bandx staff, just try and sue me, if you can find one sentient lifeform on this planet that can use your product without loosing their sanity and ill show you someone who never had it to begin with.

cogent as a company has some great applications, their once novel approach to the industry and still novel pricing (until they reallign pricing as rumoured) affords them a great niche, if you want to chug a lot of us bandwidth from a dc, or have an office block or university that needs lots of bandwidth then you just saved yourself eleventy hundred million dollars. the problem lies in human nature, theres always someone somewhere depriving a village of an idiot, who decides that cheaper is better with no thought as to how cogents network structure will affect their clients. single homed cogent is not perfect for everyone, as an even share with other providers multihomed its great for datacenters but lets face it, microsoft wouldnt host on cogent singlehomed, if you host www.downloadvidsofmygirlfriendandahorse.com and want cheap bandwidth and dont mind some downtime its perfect. horses for courses:) as they say.

PIB = GDP i think, gross domestic product?

Originally posted by KDAWebServices
OK, let me clarify, by not having their own Network I meant a Nationwide Fiber network. If they did then you wouldn't see so many horrible 400ms pings as they bounce round trying to stay on their own segments for as long as possible.

heh.. Do you know who owns most fiber in the US? I am a Cogent Customer with my day job we have had them since jsut after they started selling. I am in the first lit building in DC.

I know most of their sales and NOC people, they own/lease fiber, just as any other tier one does, you think UUnet owns all their fiber across the us? you think they tore the streets up? Level3 owns most of theirs but still plenty is leased

cogents network issues are due to its poor peering not the lack of a national backbone, more the lack of the 'last mile' connections or international peering.

Originally posted by richy
cogents network issues are due to its poor peering not the lack of a national backbone, more the lack of the 'last mile' connections or international peering.

Hmm.. for everything I am peering with they seem to be ok, I am in DC close to Mae-east and Paix, and Since the acquisition of PSInet I see much better peering to europe..
Not that it cant be improved though, just seems this board is either dead against or 100% for Cogent...

My traceroute from hamilton was about the same.. can't wait to see some cogent canada ones.

Tracing route to prioritycolo.com [66.11.162.3]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 8 ms 8 ms 22 ms 10.69.32.1
2 8 ms 10 ms 11 ms d226-5-225.home.cgocable.net [24.226.5.225]
3 12 ms 11 ms 16 ms d226-5-229.home.cgocable.net [24.226.5.229]
4 13 ms 10 ms 7 ms d226-5-250.home.cgocable.net [24.226.5.250]
5 8 ms 11 ms 11 ms cgowave-0-165.cgocable.net [24.226.0.165]
6 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms 199.45.118.25
7 11 ms 13 ms 12 ms ip28-167.tor.colo.istop.com [66.11.167.28]
8 10 ms 9 ms 11 ms 66.11.162.3

Originally posted by richy
PIB = GDP i think, gross domestic product?

Yeap :P long time i don't use that word.. i forget :(

heh no problems you should see my spanish. i think i could inadvertantly insult anyones mother while asking for a pint:)

as for cogent, psi has helped them a lot, they have got considerably better but their pricing is going up. i suppose this is a good thing really, theyre still cheap but providing a better service. im not either for or against cogent per se. i think theyre good for the industry, but they arent ideal for every client. just like inflow pricing isnt great for everyone at the other end of the spectrum.

Originally posted by porcupine


Cogent doesen't have their own network? Let me know whose forking off the 8xoc192's for their backbone so inexpensively, i could use a few of those :D. Seriously, haven't you even looked at their network map? :eek:

Actually cogent rents alot of their backbone to. I remember hearing/reading that they started out renting their backbone from level3(which could still be true, I'll have to call them up and ask). They also rent every one of the buildings their network pops are in. But they do have a national backbone which is still largely unused because how crappy the latency is and the very few peering arrangements they have.


Now before I start getting flamed I'd like to saw cogent is great for low cost hosting.

cogent rents its entire national backbone from williams doesnt it?