Alright, here is my question:

Today I received a letter from the NHL demanding that I IMMEDIATELY transfer my domain name to them and cease offering emails from it. The domain name is the full name of a hockey team .net. I registered it almost 6 months ago, so obviously they have no real interest in it.
I have never made any attempt to gain profit from the domain name, and actually offer free email accounts from the site. It was planned to become a full fledged fansite but I have not had the time as of yet.

Do I have any right to the domain name what-so-ever seeing as how it is the full name of the team?

At the least I would atleast appreciate them paying me for my registration. I won't even go into the fact that I got it some nice spots in search engines ;)

Well, having the full name of an NHL team for a domain, is prolly not a good idea. Maybe 'teamnamefansite.com' would be better, and include a disclaimer at the bottom of all pages saying you are not affiliated in anyway with 'nameofteam'
After all, they are a registered franchise, plus they sell licensed merchadise, so I would think nobody should be using the name except for them. Just because a name is available doesn't mean you can use it.
Get a new domain right away and redirect it with a link to the new site so that the search engines can (hopefully) pick up your new location before you give the old domain away.

When going up against a big company it would be best to just transfer the domain to them.

Originally posted by flitcher
When going up against a big company it would be best to just transfer the domain to them.

I agree, I doubt you want to start a battle with the NHL

I guess I will agree! I have battled with a crappy clothing retailer (ehh) 40 + stores and LOST after a million threats etc, it was transferred to them by the registrar.

I had another come up the other week that I forgot about, but it was related to PAYPAL and the communication came from their new owners along with a small consideration to not use the name anymore. Actually I had not used it anyway so oh well.

Bottom line is you have plenty to do besides deal with the "suits";)

Originally posted by ZiCmaN
I guess I will agree! I have battled with a crappy clothing retailer (ehh) 40 + stores and LOST after a million threats etc, it was transferred to them by the registrar.


sounds like you do this on purpose.. hoping someone will pay you big money for the name?

Actually I don't. That would be called cybersquatting, right?

The first one has a real dumb yet "grungy, hip-hop" flair to it. It was registered for a client that specialized in hip-hop clothing. The client ran up about $8,000 in unpaid bills and all was suspended and the domain never even used. UNTIL, one day, someone claiming to be the IS ADMINISTRATOR for this particular company sent me an email stating, "we have made registration for this domain previously, but was registered incorrectly. we would like to know if you are using this domain and if not what would it take for us to own it?" I thought that the domain had probably expired, checked and it was still good. Irony here is this person sent me an email chocked full of bad grammer and bad spelling that it wasn't hard to believe that they spelled the domain name wrong across the board, the .com, .net & .org. This chain wasn't anywhere in our state much less my city at the time of the registration or at the company inquiry. I mean you know what the name of your company is right? Well, these folks spelled it wrong and they thought that they were locked but not.

Next, the second one is simple it is a payment provider and I wanted to have a site STRICTLY for taking that PAYMENT PROVIDERS PAYMENT and offering a service.

So, sorry dude, no squatting here and I have never received any $$$ for a domain name (except a pittance to reimburse me for registration fees and transfer).

:stickout:

Originally posted by squirrel


sounds like you do this on purpose.. hoping someone will pay you big money for the name?




its called Capitalism. If I were the owner of the name, I'd transfer it to a registar that I personally knew. I seriously doubt the NHL would take you to court (they have alot of money), just goto some big newspaper or news channel, they'll listen if you whine.

Damn Robert! Stop trying to cause trouble;)

:D :D :D

LOL, not trying to cause trouble. Just trying to post my opinion, I personally like making a mockery out of big companies, who think they own the world cause they are "big".

hehe

:stickout:

You are going to lose the domain name.

Chances are the name of the team is a trademark (actually very doubtful it isn't) and you are infringing on their trademark. Basically this is the same situation as registering microsoft.net before Microsoft did and expecting them not to do anything about it.

I think It might be hard for them to take it away from you. I would try to sell it to them. They will be shelling out a bit of cash to get you to court. I would think so anyways... I could be wrong

If your gonna give it away... I'll take it :)

have you asked the NHL if they will pay for the domain? it may be there name but you still paid for it. if its a franchise I really think the person owning it should register it if they do not want it taken.

at least try and get your money back....and a good idea is if they threaten to much go to the media..you spent your $8.95 I am sure the NHL will shill out some money to pervent the media from saying the team is a horrible monster

I tend to disagree with the last couple of comments. You may get your money back and that is about it. But it could be worse.

There have been a couple of instances where someone has registered a trademark for a company and then tried to sell it back to them for more than the registered price. The companies took a hard line and then usually proceeded with copyright violation cases against them. The companies in these instances ALL won their names back and the people did not even get their money back plus they paid lawyer fees.

And one final note, depending on the state you are in (the laws will vary) is to *not threaten* to go to the media with them. Threatening to go to the media if someone doesn't pay you want you want under some state laws is extortion and *is* a criminal act.

Going to the media about what is a very routine domain name dispute is kind of pointless anyway. Maybe they were interested in that a few years back when Josh Quittner registered mcdonalds.com, but it's not going to get anyone's attention today. And so what if it did? Public debate or opinion isn't going to be a part of the process.

As for some of the other advice, transferring to "a registrar you know" is equally silly. The registrar also won't be part of the process -- the NHL will file a dispute with ICANN under the UDRP, and the decision will be made by one of the approved mediators. It won't cost them much money at all in view of the NHL's budget, and you can be sure that they have a legal staff being paid anyway -- which if nothing else is going to mean they're going to cover all of their bases in the filing and do everything right.

In short, if it's just the team name plus the tld (assuming it's the whole name including the city, for example "newyorkrangers.net," not "rangers.net") it's clearly infringing on their trademark, and you clearly have no legitimate claim to the name. They'll easily win.

Tell them you want what the site is worth. Since it is something you consider to have some value.. tell them you want a $1000 (whatever) for your trouble and lost time, etc...

It will cost them over $2000 just to enter domain arbitration.

The risk you are taking is that they may just sue your butt anyway.

Let us know what happens.

Originally posted by mrzippy Tell them you want what the site is worth. Since it is something you consider to have some value.. tell them you want a $1000 (whatever) for your trouble and lost time, etc...In my opinion, this will just cause them to add attempted extortion to the suit. You probably don't have much chance of winning in either case.

I know a person that had a site with the name "Jeep" in it. It was a seriously long domain name...not just "jeep". Daimler-Chrysler (owners of the trademark) sued him for the name and won. I believe they even got damages, but don't know for a fact.
What chance do you have with the NHL's franchise name as a domain? Not much, IMHO. Maybe you should give it up, and register the_NHL_s*cks_for_taking_my_domain.com? :D

Originally posted by thatguy
In my opinion, this will just cause them to add attempted extortion to the suit. You probably don't have much chance of winning in either case.

I agree that there's not much (no) chance of "winning". I'm not suggesing a lawsuit or even a defense.

What I'm suggesting is that he can ask for a small amount to "make up" for the time/effort he has put into the existing site. As he's said, he is not cyber-squatting but is actively using the domain and has an active website. That's worth something, since it was in good-faith. It's a gray area.

Auction it on ebay! j/k....

Anyways.... I agree with asking for a bit of money for it... Not over the top though. I would be willing to risk the $8.95 that you paid for the domain to try and get a bit more money for it.

Your gonna need wings to stay above the crap that'll pile up :eek:

I have dealt with 3M and a few other corporations and even trying to re-coup your registration fee will most likely be a waste of key strokes.

You could let them scare you into transfering it to them or delete it through your registrar and let it drop back into the pool ... done.

Interesting thread. I'm no expert but remembered this from a while back.
Apparently, as soon as you mention money [in return for the url] then it allows the company trying to obtain it to use that against you, in the fact that you have "tried to get money from them for the url...". Clever lawyers, clever words etc..

Which of course you haven't - they approached you. If they offer you money then I think thats ok, but I *think* I'm right in saying don't be the one to suggest it.

i probably don't make sense at all, do I?!

Give it back, ask for compensation for the price of the registration - they have more money than you (chances are) and can win in court - it's not worth it.

Don't give it back they have no right to it :)

Meh, dont give in...

I wouldnt, just put up a fight.. Bring you some publicity, and do what somebody else said, redirect it to a new site.. Then with all that publicity could come alot of traffic :)

redirect it to www.gimmeabuck.com

haha. :D

Just go and pay the extra $5 a year to have the domain registsered anonymously and never put an e-mail or contact on the site. I don't think an NHL team would have the knowledge or the time to be trying to find out who 'anonymous' is.

I was just wondering...How can you register anonymously a domain name?

Originally posted by 777
I was just wondering...How can you register anonymously a domain name?

You know the spot where you're supposed to put your name, address, phone number, email, etc..?

Put someone elses in there instead.

But BE CAREFUL! I believe that this is actually breaking the registration agreement with your registrar and gives them the ability to cancel your domain. I recall reading somewhere that you must maintain CURRENT contact information...

NO....MrZippy that is not the way to do it...that may even be illegal.

Most domain registrars (recently) have started offering anonymous domain registration. It costs a little more (like $50 at GoDaddy.com) but you registration info will remain hidden and nobody will ever be able to find the person who registered the domain.

Originally posted by Chaps
NO....MrZippy that is not the way to do it...that may even be illegal.

It is not illegal, but as I mentioned in my post (did you read the whole thing?), it is not advisable since it probably breaks the registration agreement.

Illegal means it's against the law. You can't go to jail, or get a fine, or whatever for using invalid contact info on a domain registration. :D

The anonymous system you describe sounds interesting.. kind of like "hiding" your email address capability on most forum software. I like that. Wonder if eNom will offer this soon?

Yes...I did real the WHOLE thing and I said 'may'...not for sure...

BUT...if it breaks the registration agreement, and someone decided to take it to court, who's going to win in the "legal battle"? So even thought it may not be listed in the constitution, does not mean it is fair game. It can still be prosecuted in a court of law.

By the way I guess it's $9 now at Godaddy, but here is the link:

https://registrar.godaddy.com/dbp.asp?isc=&se=%2B&from%5Fapp=&authGuid=&rhl=gdfront%5Flink

The team will win. All team names are trademarked and to protect the trademark rights the team must pursue any one who ues it without permission.
More importantly to the team, they charge companies such as apparel makers and advertisers a ton of money for licensing rights to the team name. They cannot afford to let it to go anyone for free. It's worth it to them to spend any amount of money necessary to see that you quit using the name.
Media won't take it seriously. The team's PR people will paint you as an evil cybersquatter who is trying to steal the team's name.
You may find that you not only lose the name but end up many thousands of dollars in the hole if they charge you licensing fees for the time you had it.

is the domain "cityteamname.net" or "teamname.net"? that makes a world of difference.

Originally posted by interactive





its called Capitalism. If I were the owner of the name, I'd transfer it to a registar that I personally knew. I seriously doubt the NHL would take you to court (they have alot of money), just goto some big newspaper or news channel, they'll listen if you whine.

NTL are billions of pounds in debt last I heard.

p.s cybersquatting is the lowest of the low imo ;)

Hold on - what has it to do with the NHL - surely the hockey team in question has a claim but unless the NHL own the rights to the particular team, I can't see how they can claim it.

GG

Originally posted by Gentle Giant
Hold on - what has it to do with the NHL - surely the hockey team in question has a claim but unless the NHL own the rights to the particular team, I can't see how they can claim it.

GG

It's in the Franchise agreement. Teams are franchises of the NHL. Same with MLB (major league baseball), NFL, NBA, etc.

Originally posted by Chaps
Just go and pay the extra $5 a year to have the domain registsered anonymously and never put an e-mail or contact on the site. I don't think an NHL team would have the knowledge or the time to be trying to find out who 'anonymous' is. They wouldn't really have to. All they'd have to do is file a dispute under the UDRP. You'd be notified by your registrar of that filing. If you don't respond, you'll lose the domain; if you do respond, they'll know who you are.

Originally posted by Chaps
I don't think an NHL team would have the knowledge or the time to be trying to find out who 'anonymous' is.

why wouldnt they? would a NBA or MLB team have the knowledge or the time?

No. Why?

All I am saying is that professional sports teams tend to not have computer programmers 'in-house'...

Are you an NHL fan or something and felt slighted by that comment?

Originally posted by Chaps
No. Why?

All I am saying is that professional sports teams tend to not have computer programmers 'in-house'...

Are you an NHL fan or something and felt slighted by that comment?

Why wouldn't they have programmers on the staff? Who do you think takes care of all the ticketing, statistics, travel, etc.?
Pro sports is a huge and very profitable business and they have the same type of staffs any big business would have. For every player you see on the field or ice, a major league sports team has 10 or more in the front office.
Teams have huge legal staffs just to handle the licensing agreements and contracts, endorsements, etc. The Marketing department is even bigger and needs to provide an incredible amount of statistics and information to advertisers and broadcasters. And what the team doesn't have, the league provides.
In a "former life" I worked in sports, on the desk and as a reporter, for newspapers and magazines. The business side of sports is fascinating and one that's kept out of the spotlight as much as possible.
You've got as much luck winning a fight with a big sports team as you do going up against IBM or 3M. Even less chance, actually, since teams derive a lot of their income from licensing the use of their name and there is no way they're going to let it go.

Well if you knew business...which it sounds like you claim you do...you'd know who takes care of ticket sales, travel, and statistics...and it isn't computer programmers.

I happen to meet on a regular basis with a professional sports franchise to discuss marketing the team both on the field, and online.

I'm not saying you do have a good chance against a sports team...I am saying that by anonymously registering a domain, the franchise would have to go through extra effort to obtain the domain. They do not have staff on hand that are domain experts. If you take a look at any professional franchise website, you'll notice that it is produced by a web development company...not in-house.

Oh and in case you actually didn't know...Director of Marketing, Director of Communications, and Team Statisticians will take care of the above mentioned tasks...

Originally posted by Chaps
Well if you knew business...which it sounds like you claim you do...you'd know who takes care of ticket sales, travel, and statistics...and it isn't computer programmers.

I'm not saying you do have a good chance against a sports team...I am saying that by anonymously registering a domain, the franchise would have to go through extra effort to obtain the domain. They do not have staff on hand that are domain experts. If you take a look at any professional franchise website, you'll notice that it is produced by a web development company...not in-house.

What would computer programmers have to do with domain names?
The bottom line is, a major league sports team -- and the league -- has the money to hire any expertise they need and the motive to protect the team name.
Keeping a domain name registeration anonymous to try and prevent it is a waste of time and money.

By programmers I meant computer people...domains are a computer thing...in case you haven't thought of it, people who purchase domains are usually going to build a web page...a web page is made with code...people who code are programmers...

...why does it seem like I'm spelling everything out here...

I know that if the team really wants the name...they'll get it. That was never in dispute. The guy was asking for help...I simply stated that anonymous registration would help. It was a suggestion...not a proven theory on how to 'not lose a domain.'

If you wanna talk business and pro sports franchises as to how they are run...give me a shout.

The major sports leagues as well as the teams themselves give great priority to protecting trademarks and licensing rights -- those are very profitable areas of business for them. And whether they have programmers, marketing people, or popcorn vendors actually on their payroll doesn't matter; they do have attorneys, and the simple fact that the NHL contacted this domain owner means that someone connected with the league is aware of domain name issues. From there it's a trivial step, again: file a dispute under the ICANN's Uniform Domain-Name Dispute-Resolution Policy... and any attempt at "anonymity" will quickly become meaningless.

I realize it's a suggestion and you're not saying it's an easy, automatic way out; I just want to make that clear so other people don't think that by buying into these "domain by proxy" programs they'll be able to buy up any domain names they want without worrying about whether they actually have the rights to those names.

*sigh*

I know.

This thread and people partaking in it are amazing.

Running a hockey site myself (mostly AHL and NCAA), It would be in your best intrest to just give the NHL your domain. You have to remember all team names and logos are trademarked and belong to the NHL.

I would ask them for a fair sum, explain politely that u have spent time & money developing and marketing the site so its only fair really. - dont go overboard just ask for a fair amount.

"developing and marketing" a trademarked name? I don't think so. If that is the case the NHL will be sending you a bill, as I have to believe thay have spent more time and money on "developing and marketing" the name than you'd ever dream of!

"developing and marketing" - the site, not the name.

Originally posted by mrzippy
You know the spot where you're supposed to put your name, address, phone number, email, etc..?

Put someone elses in there instead.

But BE CAREFUL! I believe that this is actually breaking the registration agreement with your registrar and gives them the ability to cancel your domain. I recall reading somewhere that you must maintain CURRENT contact information...

Yeah, and transfer it oversea, like in Scandinavia. They won't bother trying to sue you there... unless they really NEED that domain.

I'd flog it on ebay as some else suggested.

Something like this going on one of the big clothing companies just now:angry:

www.eff.org - contact them for help.

Originally posted by moonsee
Alright, here is my question:

Today I received a letter from the NHL demanding that I IMMEDIATELY transfer my domain name to them and cease offering emails from it. The domain name is the full name of a hockey team .net. I registered it almost 6 months ago, so obviously they have no real interest in it.
I have never made any attempt to gain profit from the domain name, and actually offer free email accounts from the site. It was planned to become a full fledged fansite but I have not had the time as of yet.

Do I have any right to the domain name what-so-ever seeing as how it is the full name of the team?

At the least I would atleast appreciate them paying me for my registration. I won't even go into the fact that I got it some nice spots in search engines ;)

No you lose! You are considered a "squatter". If it is something like VancouverCanucks.net or PhiladelphiaFlyers.net or DetroitRedWings.net you lose. They can claim intellectual property rights. This has occurred on domains titled after movie star names. Every time the squatter lost.

So what was the end result of this? I just saw this so I know I'm late but the best thing to do would have been to just contact a local attorney and run it by them. If nothing else, have the NHL pay for you to get a new domain...

Curious as to what really happened...

Don't threaten to go to the media, just go and make a big stink out of it. Yes you are going to probably lose your domain but atleast give them a bad rep over it.

I personally have been in your situation twice, once with a one of the major film producers in the USA and a second time with a very large (4,000 +employees) corporation that I know everyone here knows about. .If anyone reading this knows more about these situations, DO NOT under penalties of law post the domains and/or companies I am referencing above.

1) Do not offer to sell the domain to them, wait for them to make the offer to you. If you offer first the courts will see it as you trying to profit from it. For me, I was offered a certain amount for the domain which was just too good to pass on. I lucked out and got paid a hefty sum of money and avoided court in the process.

2) Some people are understanding and some are not, if they provided their phone number, call them and try to explain your situation and that you were running it as a fan.

Intellec

Kevin Spacey lost in court. He only won after he took it to WIPO.

There is one particular cybersquatter who has registered hundreds of domain names and has won against the celebrity in court a decent amount. I forget what his name is or the domains, but if you google for cyber squating law suits you will find it. On his site he tells you what he did to win. So if anyone cares to look this up please post the URL to it.

Bruce Springsteen is an example of someone that lost as well.
http://www.forbes.com/2001/02/08/0207springsteen.html

1. be aware that the nhl and nba are most definately in a position to find out about an 'anonymous' registration at somewhere like godaddy (besides the name is technically registered by godaddy so the udrp notification would be sent to them so you are in fact more likely to lose it doing it this way). in the recent dispute between the owner of jets.com and dolphins.com and whichever league it is that the respective teams are part of (i'm from the uk i dont know your sports :) ) and they quoted posts from dnforum.com (he owned it at the time) in their discussions so they are watching the domain forums (probably even this one).

2. what is the name? dolphins.com and jets.com fended the attack successfully i should imagine mainly because they are also generic words. so as someone else said in this thread does the domain point specifically to the team? if so i should imagine it is infringing on their trademark and i would save yourself the hassle and transfer it. they can under certain circumstances apply for 100k damages if they take the descision to the normal courts.

3. if they have not already ask for their request on letterheaded notepaper (some people like to do this for fun when they are not part of the company in question so you hand the domain over to them instead). plus at least if you come out with just registration fee you will have a cool letter to put on your wall (playboy send out letters with a gold embossed bunnyhead on the top. :) )

4. a thread on here is fine for talking about your problem but talk to a real IP/domain attorney if you are even thinking of taking it further or are serious about not just handing it over.

Ciq :)

exercise your god given "Dharma".......gift the domain to them along with a champagne bottle to celeberate it.......it will all be repaid back in much more value.......if not in this life you will get it in the next or the next.....:D

Circumstances control man.....man cannot control circumstances.