Let's laugh a little...

We used to be a member of the BBB because we believed that it would help add credibility to our already well established business. We paid extra and got the online seal of approval as well. It seems that as soon as we did so it made it all the easier to get complaints.

What we found was a considerable increase in customer complaints that ranged from,

1) they won't write off our past due bill and have sent us to collections,
2) they won't help me build my web site,
3) my domain name expired and they didn't tell me (even though I bought it from GoDaddy...),
4) they were rude to me when they called to tell me that I was 90 days past due and they were going to shut my site off,

or even better,

5) I hadn't paid my past due bill and they didn't even call to tell me. They just turned off my web site and I've lost a lot of business. Or my favorite,
6) they automatically charged my credit card and I didn't authorize them to even though it's in their TOS, on their order form, and I got an invoice before they did it. My debit card was then over-drawn and I want bounced check fees.

Oh wait! The best one!

7) My account automatically renewed without my knowledge or permission and I continued using it for 6 months before noticing because I was processing orders from my web site. My credit card company wouldn't give my money back, so I want you to make them.

OOH, OOH! There's an

8) I didn't submit a cancellation and my account automatically renewed and charged my credit card. They paid to renew my domain name. I just wanted to cancel by saying absolutely nothing and expected that they would figure it out. Now I want my money back AND the domain name that I own.

ROTFLMAO. In fairness to us, we only get about one every month or two. These are more of just giggles. Our position is that being a member of the BBB has no tangible benefit. They as an organization or unable to act as anything more than a sounding board that is a waste of time responding to. They also have failed to provide "arbitration services" that they claim membership gives one access to.

How many of you have tried the BBB and what were your experiences?

Let's laugh a little and maybe as potential customers also read our replies they'll get a feel for what it's like on our side of the phone.

IMO the BBB is kinda useless in a way. Heck I'm surprised these complaints made it through, when I file a complaint it just gets thrown in the trash.

It's too true tha the BBB is just a joke now adays.
They hook you with the line "Someone called us asking more about your business and we didn't have any information for you on file..."

Think about it...WHO CALLS THE BBB FOR ANY OTHER REASON OTHER THAN TO COMPLAIN!?

The BBB is a total scam to handout a plaque/logo that you just pay for.

HAHA, some people just don't have a clue!

We dropped our membership 5 years ago for the same reason. We didn't get too many complaints, but the ones we did get were all "self-inflicted" by the client.

Like the client who deleted all their website files from their folder, then waited 3 months before calling us that their website was not working. We don't keep our backups that long and we not able to restore, nor did he want to call his designer. So what do you do? You call the BBB and complain. We responded promptly with the facts and maintained our rating, but geee.... another reason we log all emails and phone calls.

We had signed up for the BBB and their online seal program and gave it a test for a year and found that it wasn't worth the money just for the little badge to display on our site. We never received any complaints though, so I can't comment on that.

While I understand the sentiments above, look at it from another angle. People making BBB complaints are obviously not happy and, often times, normal means of problem resolution (help desk, live chat, phone, etc.) have not proven acceptable in the customer's eyes. Now, the specific examples above do tend to be on the extreme side of the spectrum. However, there are also the rest of the complaints that are legitimate, reasonable issues. It's those issues that should be worrisome as a webhost because that indicates failure to resolve a customer's problem.

So in my opinion, the BBB doesn't work against you.. it helps you resolve customer problems to their satisfaction. After all, that's a webhost's job.

IMO BBB is a scam and is not what its meant to be.

Sounds like someone needs to call the BBB on the BBB.

Dave

While I understand the sentiments above, look at it from another angle. People making BBB complaints are obviously not happy and, often times, normal means of problem resolution (help desk, live chat, phone, etc.) have not proven acceptable in the customer's eyes. Now, the specific examples above do tend to be on the extreme side of the spectrum. However, there are also the rest of the complaints that are legitimate, reasonable issues. It's those issues that should be worrisome as a webhost because that indicates failure to resolve a customer's problem.

So in my opinion, the BBB doesn't work against you.. it helps you resolve customer problems to their satisfaction. After all, that's a webhost's job.

I am curious what you think a legitimate complaint to the BBB would be? The examples I have given are the only examples we have received and are hardly extreme. They are, based on conversations with others web hosts, typical complaints.

It is also well established that accredited BBB businesses are treated differently with respect to complaints. I have personally telephoned the BBB and told them the back story of a complaint and not only was the complaint removed but our rating increased. How is this fair to non-member companies? Although this was a positive spending over $1k a year for a logo didn't seem worth it.

This brings us back to the original question: does placing the BBB logo on your site mae it easier for complaints, founded or unfounded, to be levied? Does being a member of the BBB benefit your hosting business? What are some of the outrageous complaints you have received?

Outrageous complaints? We got a BBB inquiry from someone who apparently registered a domain through Network $olutions and set our name servers as the default. They complained to the BBB that we never activated their website and wanted a refund of 5 years of registration because of it.

We replied that we had never heard of this person, had any business dealings with them or anything. BBB insisted that we must have had some business relationship with them because the customer showed them a NetSol domain registration which had our name servers (which is basically ns.ourcompany.com) listed on their domain.

We replied again stating we have never had any dealings with the person who registered. We never heard anything again after that.

Those kinds of things really made me mad and wasted our time.

Yeah, forget the BBB!

I think the Internet will eventually put them down... sites like Yelp, etc.. are much better ways to figure out if a business is reputable, and as more online companies realize the BBB is just as shady as a "top 10 web hosting site", they'll eventually (hopefully) stop giving in to their "membership fees" .. which seem to magically improve your grade if you give in and ever pay them!

I'm personally a bit of a fan of the BBB for brick+mortar businesses, but honestly being a member of your local chamber of commerce is probably just as effective. The basic idea is that when people see the plaque, they get the warm-fuzzies knowing that if they have a problem they have a sympathetic ear.

In my personal opinion, I don't think the logo gives the same effect for web-based businesses. We considered joining, on the assumption it'd help give more credibility to a startup... but I really don't think that's true.

Just because someone's dropped the money for a BBB membership, or a (for an example a little closer to home) "Corporate membership" to WHT, doesn't mean they're not going to fold up 6 months later... just that they had more money to pour into the startup phase.

@chunkhost: The BBB is not supposed to be sympathetic to member companies - they're supposed to treat them exactly the same as non-member companies (with the exception that member companies get the seal). If you have experiences with a local chapter of the BBB doing that, I suggest you contact the BBB's national office and let them know about it.

Not a member of the BBB nor do I intend to, but the way that I see it is I'd rather have "complaints" against me on a site like the BBB rather than a reputable site like WHT. ;)

I was thinking about putting the logo on my site - but no more - it just doesn;t seem worth it!

We are still debating if we want to spend the $300 / year...

Greetings Rod Peterson:

We tried the Better Business Bureau a few years after starting the business. It had zero positive impact. While we only had one complaint that we know of, the party complaining used the BBB to try and twist out of our terms of service.

Being part of the BBB in that situation only created more work as each peace of paper involving a case needs to be responded to within a certain period of time with evidence of what was and what was not done. And if the BBB asked you to do something which you know is wrong (not talking wrong morally, ethically, or legally per say, but wrong per your contract, terms of service, etc.), you still have to respond with the reasons why you disagree.

We left the BBB behind, and don't regret it.

Thank you.

Years ago I thought it would help a business owner, I see now it is really has almost no impact on your businesses bottom line

The online BBB is basically just a place where people can go to complain about any sucker company who is listed.

Any complaint is accepted and posted, which makes it downright useless for a technology based service provider like web hosting, where the vast majority of complaints are due to lack of understanding of the technology.

(ie: My email isn't working, so as punishment I am going to send a complaint to the BBB because YOU SUCK! Oh wait, I rebooted and now it's working. Oh well, too bad I already sent the complaint.)

We withdrew our online BBB membership over three years ago (only had it for one year) and have not found any increase or decrease in customer signups at all. The only thing that changed was now some of our idiot customers have to work a little harder to find somewhere else to complain.

The only thing that changed was now some of our idiot customers have to work a little harder to find somewhere else to complain.I'm curious where is the "somewhere"...

I'm curious where is the "somewhere"...
Any "hosting review" website.

My point was that the link to onlineBBB on our website homepage basically was being used as nothing more then a quicklink to a place where unhappy customers could complain.

The problem was that those unhappy customers were usually not very smart, and the complaints rarely were legitimate.

In the example above, the "customer" wasn't even our hosting customer. He ordered a domain name through us, but was hosting his email with a different company. Since he didn't understand that domain name registration is not the same as hosting, we ended up with a black mark on our onlineBBB record.

How stupid and worthless is that?

Online BBB is nothing more then providing a simple way for customers to complain about you, with no validation or reason needed.

Any "hosting review" website.

My point was that the link to onlineBBB on our website homepage basically was being used as nothing more then a quicklink to a place where unhappy customers could complain.

The problem was that those unhappy customers were usually not very smart, and the complaints rarely were legitimate.

In the example above, the "customer" wasn't even our hosting customer. He ordered a domain name through us, but was hosting his email with a different company. Since he didn't understand that domain name registration is not the same as hosting, we ended up with a black mark on our onlineBBB record.

How stupid and worthless is that?

Online BBB is nothing more then providing a simple way for customers to complain about you, with no validation or reason needed.

That was our experience exactly. All that the logo did was make it easier for an unhappy customer to file a complaint and usually as an attempt to get out of the TOS. For example, we have a cancellation policy like most hosts. The customer will go beyond the annual renewal, we will pay to renew their domain name, and 30 days later they file a chargeback with their credit card company. They lose the chargeback once their electronic signature is shown as evidence of their "participation in the transaction," and then turn to the BBB and say, "These people stole my money! I want it back." They don't mention the TOS or that their CC company denied their chargeback.

Now the host has to respond to the initial complaint, and then respond to the consumers response, etc. In the meantime an arbitrary score is on the line. We went from an A+ as a member to a C- as a non-member after a customer claimed that we stole his web site content from his new host, setup an account (although he was already a customer of several years that never told us that he'd left,) and billed him for services. The BBB gave a reason for the drastic rank decrease: it was a "serious allegation." So what. We proved that we were on the right side of the issue, moral, ethical and honest. What a waste of time and energy for something that was bogus from the beginning. All the customer had to say was that he had moved and forgot to cancel. Instead, no. He had to make up a story and take it to the Nth degree. Had we not responded we'd have been dinged anyway.

Maybe your local BBB has cheaper rates but our her in Cali it's $700 a year plus another $400 for the online seal. Per year.

To the point that most if not all complaints are from those unfamiliar with technology, I would agree. Although I would disagree with a poster above who implied that if a host gets complaints it is because they aren't doing their job well enough, it is a reason to try harder. I Googled that host and he shouldn't try walking on water any time soon 8=)

We have spent a lot of time and money making tutorials, providing movies, etc. Especially because we provide higher-end technology (Flash streaming, etc.) the learning curve is higher for many of our technically challenged customers. That's OK and we understand that what comes easy for us techno-geeks may not be quite as easy for the consumer. But we cannot spend hours on the phone with them, especially since the issue is usually hardware related on their end - like they deleted the IEEE 1394 host controller and cannot stream in DV mode. Of course we will direct them to Add Hardware and reinstall the host controller, but we cannot do it for them. There is a limit to support.

But this brings us full circle to frustrated customers that expect that for $3.99 a month the web host has become their personal IT department. I am confident that every one of us tries very hard to keep our customers happy in a hyper-competitive industry. That's a given. But what about the hosts that when asked direct questions like, "Will you let me stream audio files?" and then they boot the customer for a resource violation. I actually got the customer and chatted online with the last host and learned only by pushing the point that only "small files" may be streamed. "What is small?" "Not big." "Define 'not big'." "Not large, sir..." THIS WAS A REAL CHAT SESSION!!! If this customer had complained to the BBB would it have been a legitimate complaint?

Let's throw out some scenarios that I think we've all experienced.

If a customer installs Joomla and is having a hard time with its many features, should the host be responsible for supporting a third-party developers product regardless of whether or not that developer has their own support site? If the host refuses, should that justify a complaint to the BBB? Or if the customer is using a provided web site builder and expects to be taught over the telephone how to build a web site, should the host be required to assist that customer or fear generating a BBB complaint?

Do we all agree that there needs to be a limit to the extent of support? If a company tells a customer that they simply cannot walk the customer through reinstalling Windows should the BBB take a complaint seriously? If a customers printer stops working "because you implanted a virus in it through the web site I got from you," how seriously should the BBB take it? Does some common sense on the part of the BBB need to exist, or are they simply justifying their fees?

DISCLAIMER: As a seminar speaker I often throw questions out that may or may not have ever happened to me. Having done so now should not imply anything to anyone. My questions are intended to create dialogue and further communication.

The online BBB is basically just a place where people can go to complain about any sucker company who is listed.

Any complaint is accepted and posted, which makes it downright useless for a technology based service provider like web hosting, where the vast majority of complaints are due to lack of understanding of the technology.

(ie: My email isn't working, so as punishment I am going to send a complaint to the BBB because YOU SUCK! Oh wait, I rebooted and now it's working. Oh well, too bad I already sent the complaint.)

We withdrew our online BBB membership over three years ago (only had it for one year) and have not found any increase or decrease in customer signups at all. The only thing that changed was now some of our idiot customers have to work a little harder to find somewhere else to complain.

It only goes into BBB's coffers

Online BBB is nothing more then providing a simple way for customers to complain about you, with no validation or reason needed.So what? It's our job as companies to field complaints and do our best to resolve them. Not all are able to be resolved, but that's not the point.

So what? It's our job as companies to field complaints and do our best to resolve them. Not all are able to be resolved, but that's not the point.

Actually, that IS part of the point. Your prior post and now this one suggest that companies don't respond to complaints well enough and generate complaints. You are the one that I Googled and those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Let's get back to the original question: does placing the BBB logo on your web site act as an invitation for some customers to make frivilous complaints?

I'm not implying that at all, so if that's how my posts were taken, I apologize for that inference.

I'm merely saying that having an external party for dispute resolution is not a bad thing. No matter how hard you try, an upset customer will find somewhere -- anywhere -- to post their unhappiness. The BBB (and other third party dispute companies) may not fully understand the industry and, in my opinion, it's our job to correctly convey *why* we're in the right if that's the case.

So getting back to the original question you state:

"does placing the BBB logo on your web site act as an invitation for some customers to make frivilous complaints?"

Not in my opinion. Those customers are going to find somewhere to make their frivolous complaints no matter what. By being a BBB member, I believe it's a way to maintain some sort of centralized location for complaints. No company is immune to them; the larger the company, the greater the number of complaints there usually are.

I'm merely saying that having an external party for dispute resolution is not a bad thing. No matter how hard you try, an upset customer will find somewhere -- anywhere -- to post their unhappiness. The BBB (and other third party dispute companies) may not fully understand the industry and, in my opinion, it's our job to correctly convey *why* we're in the right if that's the case.

Perhaps that's naivete on your part. The BBB doesn't mediate. They don't care about your position as much as they care about leaving the impression that they are a neutral third party that you should become a member of. At the end of the day you still have a complaint on your record that is visible to the public. It doesn't matter how it was resolved.

In my opinion the logo on ones site places the very customer you describe just one click away from communicating directly with you and going to the BBB because they didn't pay to renew their domain name and its your fault.

"Agreeing to perform according to their contract..."
"Refuse to adjust, relying on terms of agreement..."

Why should any host agree to NOT rely on their TOS? Deviating from your TOS opens you up to litigation where it may be shown that your TOS is suggestive rather than controlling. What is the point of a TOS if not enforced? "Payments are due within 5 days of the due date or your site may be suspended.." Suspend their site on the 6th day. What the customer is really complaining about is that now that the TOS that they had to agree to as a condition of service no longer suits them and they want an exception. Otherwise they'll threaten the BBB. Doesnb't a web host need to be consistent on how they handle matters?

"No. You may not host pornography." "But it isn't porn. It's art." "In our opinion it is offensive." "Well that's your opinion."

The complaint to the BBB reads, "They took my site down without warning and for no reason."

Now you have a mark for "Refuse to adjust, relying on terms of agreement..."

The consumer checking the review doesn't see that the host booted a porn site.

My Mom was an arbitrator for the BBB and I believe it works for brick and mortar establishments, but not for the Internet. On the surface, I think it conveys a certain level of trust, but is it worth the investment? NO.

I've had good success with the BBB. My company went from a B rating to an A+ (for the last year now) with only 1 complaint in 9 years of being in business. And we're a high risk business (as our merchant account terminal says)...

Guess it just depends on how you run your business...

But you aren't a web hosting business with transient customers. Web hosting isn't the same as real estate, just as online businesses with anonymous customers isn't.

As part of my preparation for this thread I went and looked up the top 10 hosting companies (as determined by "review sites" and found that each one has a noticeable number of BBB complaints. I then went and typed "(insert hosting company name here) sucks" and found many pages for each. Most of the very large companies have acceptable support, etc. Reading their complaints on their "sucks" pages I hear echos of my own experience. The bottom line is that most complaints levied against hosting companies are not justified. Anyone can say anything anywhere. The largest hosting company out there has an F rating and 807 complaints.

Add to this the anonymity of making a complaint with the BBB. The complainant does not have to provide documentation proving their complaint, just as those that visit sites that allow them to post anonymous complaints don't. How then is the BBB of value? Crap in, crap out.

I have a customer that has a dedicated server and he uses bandwidth. He was three months past due and regular contact with him kept getting, "I'll pay it next week..." He never paid. He was sent a 72 hour notice and did not pay the bill and his server was turned off. After 8 months without a complaint from the BBB suddenly I get one last night alleging that I harmed his profitable business because his server was down and we couldn't fix it. It isn't broken - its turned off for non-payment.

How does that justify a complaint and how is it the business of the BBB? Just the fact that he complained means that we have to respond and will get a mark in one column or another. How is that fair to us? We're out 90 days of payments (about $1300) AND now have a BS complaint to deal with. How does that make us a bad company? How does that add up to poor management as you imply?

BBB is giving the business that is being reported the opportunity to respond the 'complains' regardless what the response is, in the end, it always tell "resolve the complaint satisfactorily". Does it help? Not at all, when you see a business has a BBB decal, you might need to begin to think the history of business may have numerous consumer complaints filed against it before it sign up with BBB, so they can clear up those complains.

Just to add my two cents...

The BBB called us about 2 years ago and did exactly what someone said earlier in this thread, "Someone called and wanted more information about you.", along with the, "Being in the BBB is by invitation only so you should feel privileged."

After hearing all their spill, I decided agaisnt it and while we've been in business I've heard nothing but negatives about them.

I somewhat have the same opinion on Chamber of Commerces but to be fair, they are much more useful than the BBB.

I think it does. When im happy with a company that is accredited I find myself looking for a way to praise them but I don't think BBB offers that.

So it's only going to work against you if customers can't offer good reviews.

I thought the BBB gives you more business since it shows the potential client that you are willing to work with them?

This is a great thread! It's great to get real life experiences out there for everyone to see. Seems like the BBB is a bit risky.

Better to use other seals like Verisign's Trust Logo.

Having BBB approve such complaints may only taint your reputation more on BBB than it does good.

In 13 years of business I have only lost 3 customers. One died. One I fired because I just couldn't (wouldn't) take their unfounded abuse anymore. One basically went bankrupt because they didn't pay their state sales taxes.

BBB calls me occasionally and I just laugh them off. If I have a customer with a complaint, they'll call me first and rarely does a customer complain. If you run a good business, deliver an exceptional product or service, document everything you do and treat your customers well you'll get plenty of referrals just like I do and your customers should always be satisfied with your business.

So for those reasons I have always felt that BBB was a huge waste of money- no one has ever said "Well, since you are not a member of the BBB I won't consider doing business with you."

I feel the same about our local chamber. They have tried to get me a few times and I've told them "you need my services waaaay more than I need yours." If they had local business mixers non members could attend and actually did some things to develop local business whether you were a member or not, then maybe I would join but they don't. Mostly they just want to charge me large fees so they can disseminate their internal members only marketing materials to me and put me on their website with a link.

I like the BBB when dealing with large companies because there are often departments in charge of repairing BBB complaints. I used to have a cell phone with AT&T SunCom (I don't think they're even a company anymore) that I had reported stolen. Months later it popped up with over $5000 in charges. It turns out that the thief called the company to reactivate the phone.

SunCom refused to assist and sent the bill to collections. The matter was only resolved once I filed a BBB complaint which resulted in the issue being referred to an attorney in their legal department who then called to apologize and issued a letter of the same, effectively rescinding the collection filing.

I like the BBB when dealing with large companies because there are often departments in charge of repairing BBB complaints. I used to have a cell phone with AT&T SunCom (I don't think they're even a company anymore) that I had reported stolen. Months later it popped up with over $5000 in charges. It turns out that the thief called the company to reactivate the phone.

SunCom refused to assist and sent the bill to collections. The matter was only resolved once I filed a BBB complaint which resulted in the issue being referred to an attorney in their legal department who then called to apologize and issued a letter of the same, effectively rescinding the collection filing.