If anybody cares to learn look here for the basics
http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/Terrorism_militias/20011031_eff_usa_patriot_analysis.html

I spent the better part of the day getting my lawyer to interperet certain parts of it.

so here is the summary that I was told that I have to live with.

1) I have to place on my tos / aup that the log files have a specific cycle life within the system

2) without a court order, any server that I have access to within the USA I have to turn over the log files. All they have to do is call and ask for it.

3) forgien servers that I control might be subjected to same rules.

so overall I have a new layer of paperwork to deal with on a daily basis.

thought you would all like to know

Mike

Curious as I have not had time for someone to look this over. How does this affect affiliate programs and resellers? 2checkout seems to think it has changed the relationship, has it?

Thanks

Chet

Uhh ... yeah, you didn't know about this ... it's been in effect for over a year.

It's major, and a violation of many american's rights. This is now the law, and as hosts, yes, we must abide by it. I didn't have a lawyer go through it, but I've read it myself and have a good understanding of everything it states. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

Yeah it's great to live in such a free country.

And I especially appreciate the fact that since it's called the Patriot Act, if I do not like the increased restrictions, I guess I'm not a patriot.

The founding fathers must be rolling their eyes in their graves.

most likely it will be repelled or changed in one way or another. just think of MaCartherism. let's do a red hunt ....

anyway just abide by the rules and write your congress and senators.

also don't forget to vote

Mike

Right after the 911 attacks we voluntarrily gave up log files for a user (upon the users request) and sent them to the FBI.

I don't see a problem with protecting freedom.

Originally posted by IntraHost
Right after the 911 attacks we voluntarrily gave up log files for a user (upon the users request) and sent them to the FBI.

I don't see a problem with protecting freedom.

So you're willing to turn over everything you do in your life to be collected into a giant database?

We're talking phone records, credit card records, what you do on the internet, etc.

You'd do that for the sake of freedom?

If we don't have privacy, then how do we have freedom?

I'll wait for the day when they start monitoring our thoughts, where we all are truely free, and criminalize us for thinking anything negative.

When that happens... time for another revolution.

Originally posted by ADEhost
2) without a court order, any server that I have access to within the USA I have to turn over the log files. All they have to do is call and ask for it.

Fight that one as unconstitutional. That falls under search and seizures limits.

by MyBrotherDan
The founding fathers must be rolling their eyes in their graves.

Yes, they are.

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

--Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Ah, makes me glad I'm not in the US :D

Originally posted by achost_ca
Ah, makes me glad I'm not in the US :D

Well, it does affect you as well... read the part about foreign organisations...

I think we are well prepared for the USPA :) and i may note it will probably be revised by mid next year due to the fact it isnt totally constitutional

But isn't it a US law?

How would it affect investor's trust?

ForumsAddict ... sorry, I'm a grammar freak.

When you used "effect", the correct word to use was "affect"

sorry.. :D

All I gotta say is:

Originally posted by achost_ca
Ah, makes me glad I'm not in the US :D

Oh forgot a small catch,

if the servers are in the USA, the datacenter will be required to pull the log files, simple. that's why many firms that are offshore but hold a server in the USA are rather nervous because this.

But at the same time this would also make us on equal footing with most of europe when it comes to industrial spying at a government level. ( france and china being the top at it currently (

MIke

I have a quick question, as orginally posted in the first post, what is the life cycle of log files required, is there a minimum amount of time, and I have yet to see the question answered as to how this affects resellers, wouldn't the host that the reseller be required to hold the logs, though if they didn't and it was the reseller's client I imagine the reseller would still be held accountable.

Originally posted by MyBrotherDan
Yeah it's great to live in such a free country.

And I especially appreciate the fact that since it's called the Patriot Act, if I do not like the increased restrictions, I guess I'm not a patriot.

The founding fathers must be rolling their eyes in their graves.

Yeah damn straight. Sounds more like 1933-1945 GERMANY... :angry:

"Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act"

They spent many months coming up with the proper acronym...

Anyone with a basic psychological understanding knows what they're trying to do.

Laws keep becoming broader (DMCA) and broader:

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=18&threadid=126042

Originally posted by clockwork
"Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act"

They spent many months coming up with the proper acronym...

Anyone with a basic psychological understanding knows what they're trying to do.

Laws keep becoming broader (DMCA) and broader:

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=18&threadid=126042

I see. Gaining World Power didn't fit into the initials... :mad:

One little obscure program here

Another program here

Terrorists attack and it's all grouped into:

http://www.darpa.mil/iao/programs.htm

Originally posted by Samuel
One little obscure program here

Another program here

Terrorists attack and it's all grouped into:

http://www.darpa.mil/iao/programs.htm

It's lovely to have that run by a convicted felon (later acquited) during the Iran-Contra incidents.

Have to love the theme of the eye looking over the world (mostly Asia.. hmmm...).

For a good read, I suggest everyone have a look at "Rulers of Evil" (search for it on Amazon). Great book, lots of facts.

This is ridiculous. What if I use software that doesn't generate logs?

FBI/CIA/NSA/*** rules....

But we gotta live with it ;)

Americans, should be horrified! This is downright wrong and against the basics of how this country was formed.

This is abusive politcs at it's best. We ALL should be scared to death that the constitution is getting crumbled.

God help us all.

Originally posted by intraweb
God help us all.

God helps those who write their congresscritters and vote.

Originally posted by living_media
God helps those who write their congresscritters and vote.

That's not going to happen, because as usual some 80 year technophobe suggested this law and people will not do anything to stop this, because they got their face in the potato chip bag. Politicians know that people won't do anything and they can get away with it.

......write your congress and senators.

also don't forget to vote..............

Wouldn't you get all your citizen's views ignored quicker if you cut the middle men out (congress) and sent your letters straight to the supreme court? Especially now the US is no longer a constitutional democaracy.

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


Especially now the US is no longer a constitutional democaracy.

:( :bawling:

*scratches head*

I thought we were always a Representative Democracy or some crap like that... a true democracy would be where every citizen voted on every issue right?

Oh well, I'm not into the intricals of politics anyways so I don't know much in this area :)

We do have the right to vote on every single issue. The fact is people don't care.

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Especially now the US is no longer a constitutional democaracy.

ok I'm involved rather deeply in local government ( i'm the guy at city council meetings with 3000 signatures telling local council members that they did wrong ( or right ) ), So please tell me when we lost our constitutional democaracy?

if your talking about the florida count issue then that was fought in court, popular vote issue ... show's you how tricky the game is and how much we let congress get away with.

Mike the US is rapidly being turned into an authoritarian state.

There was the matter of Florida and the President Select stuff. Once revered throughout the world now we have election monitors visiting from Russia and Albania to observe Florida elections.

I was mainly referring to the subject matter of this thread. There is a rapid program of “legislation” being passed that runs directly counter to many of the freedoms and rights enshrined in the constitution. The constitution is thus being thrown away, ignored and marginalized. Nobody seems to care or realize.

Kissinger gave the world the model in Pinochet’s Chile. Now that is what the US is to become.

Further thoughts: discuss. Both Hitler and the Roman Establishment used the notion of external threats to dump inconvenient rights, especially when their economy was in decline. Not widely known Rome of the turn of that millennium was previously actually a republic which became ruled by an all- powerful emperor as deemed necessary to protect the people of Rome from outside terrorists. The Romans burnt their city and Hitler torched his own Reichstag.

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove

Further thoughts: discuss. Both Hitler and the Roman Establishment used the notion of external threats to dump inconvenient rights, especially when their economy was in decline. Not widely known Rome of the turn of that millennium was previously actually a republic which became ruled by an all- powerful emperor as deemed necessary to protect the people of Rome from outside terrorists. The Romans burnt their city and Hitler torched his own Reichstag.

The place where Washington D.C. is now used to be called Rome. Interesting, wouldn't you say?

Moved from Philadelphia to Rome for what reason?

Really -- Go buy "Rulers of Evil", I bet you'll start reading and won't stop until it is finished.

http://www.rulersofevil.com/

well, maybe we need a serious wake up call. Pinochet’s Chile had death squads and a few other nasty things. maybe it's time for a tyrant to rule and crush everything. maybe the tyrant will rule with justice and force the poor and the rich to work together.
maybe, just maybe, this tyrant will rule for the people at the cost to the people for the net gain of the people.

Good example is what we have in the USA.
that is :

A) people screaming " Not in my backyard " when it comes to power plants

b) cell towers on top and near schools ... what the heck is that all about, poision the kids on a long term scale. keep it away from schools.

c) waste. the consumers of the USA waste more than any other culture I know. Who the heck needs an SUV, as much as I want to own one I won't because I know that the gas consumed is way too much for so little extra. I get a good laugh at those tree huggers driving SUV's by themselves to the market.

well anyway, when I'm sitting on 3000 acres of land and the revolution comes knocking to take my home I will make sure they get a broad side that will flatten them back to hell.

Do any of you guys know if the constitution applies to non-residents? Can people get deported without due process?

Do any of you guys know if the constitution applies to non-residents?

Doesn't much apply to anyone now :(

Can people get deported without due process

Certainly can. Guantanamo Bay, anyone?

Originally posted by Skeptical
Do any of you guys know if the constitution applies to non-residents? Can people get deported without due process?

It applies to all people. You can't deported for no reason.

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


Certainly can. Guantanamo Bay, anyone?

ok explain how gitmo has any relation to the rules of deportation.

Mike, there is well-enshrined international law just being wholesale ignored. Geneva convention etc, etc., in Guantanomo.
If you don't respect international laws you are just the same as the barbarians you purport to deal with.

And there are plenty of examles of constitutional rights being violated recently. If people beleive the constitution is gonna help them fight deportation they are naive. The constitution and the bill of rights is being sidelined and marginalized by counter-prevailing "laws" and deed.

And the amercian public is sleep-walking to disaster. History will now show that this was the point of terminal decline of the amercian imperium.

Before you start quoting the geneva convention, you best read upon it and the rules of engagement. While we did not declair war on afganistan, we have no need to follow the terms, when we fought Iraq we did.

Now, we are hold those that we feel that are responsible as combatants. and we feed them within thier right's as combatants. but let's not forget that atleast we are decently civil about this. And more importantly open about our action.

start reading your history and you'll see that we are subject to the abuse because we are open and admit what we do. The old Russia was not, the French never disclose anything that they do ( they even sank a greenpeace ship ( I don't like green peace but I do not condone sinking's ))

and as for the remark of "respect international laws", we play real well with them overall. our trackrecord ( which is public ) is rather well.

if you really want to compare notes on how bad we are. compare the history of the cold war and the sub programs and actions. More problems we brought to the attention of the world with the USA sub program than anybody else. I believe we lost a total of 2 nuke subs. the Russians until resent never even admitted to the loss of one. ( nor have the french for that matter )

we also don't go blowing up atom bombs above surfaces. and overall we have scaled back from the final countdown.

if the american public want's to give up rights it is by thier choice, they sit back and not think again it's there choice. If america falls it's by thier choice. those that have power always know how to hold power.

mike

we also don't go blowing up atom bombs above surfaces

So that's OK then........such decent people we've become! The US now holds the low ground, having lost the plot I'm afraid.

International law is not a variable menu to pick and choose from......but if you do........

It was once said that a country's goverment approach to foreigners was an important indicator - that's how they would like to treat their own if they thought they'd get away with it. Well, now they are! Hey, and here comes Dr K right on cue.

I'm afraid the skies are black with chickens coming home to roost. Fasten your seat belt - its gonna get very bumpy now.

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


Doesn't much apply to anyone now :(



Certainly can. Guantanamo Bay, anyone?

Ok, so let's say they do find a reason. Does that person have the right to demand a fair trial to determine if he should be deported? What comes to mind is the Canadian citizen getting deported back to Syria because he was born there originally. The reason? The U.S. suspected him to be affiliated with Al Queda.

In the current climate and with the current administration you should you would have no rights and no redress.

They are making the rules up as they go along. The example you quore seems to confirm that.

missed the word "presume" out above :)

about the Company Spying part...
I myself live in the Nethelrands, and then build Echlon... Or i think that's the name... 'Big towers standing in Spain, Britain and everywhere, tapping all phonecalls in Europe... For "Safeties" Sake...

Imagine... ALl my phonecalls are being stored in a giant db here, for up to 4 years... thanks to the CIA/NSA/ etc.

Yeah.. safefy... but then the cool part came!

It seems now... that they have been using the so called Safefy thing to spy on company's! Providing USA companies with information that they could just drop their prices before a major deal was made!

I like you all, guys from USA, Canada, or Europe... or the rest of the world... But... if this so called Safety sys, makes it possible to steal fair money away of my nose... it's not only not for safety... it's for cheating as well!

So, let me get it straight... it gave the government of one huge nation more freedom, and freedom to cheat on others...

Fair world it is...

Second... I dislike this arrogance the USA Government imposes when they state a new law... We want, we get, we don't care where you live... if not... your server or ip comes on the "not existing" blacklist... A site of a friend of mine... about the Canabis Regulations here in the Netherlands was on that non existing list for about 9 months... A hacker friend of him found out... His site was blocked by every USA server or ISP... So, with all traffic from Asia being routed through USA... also for them!

Anyway... don't get me wrong guys... I love you all in the USA... but somehow your government screws that image up very bad if it goes accross your borders.

Good luck with the new laws! :)

deported => now we already are deporting people again...

what's next? Building so called work camps?!?

I know this hasn't been discussed in a page or two, but this country was never a "representative democracy". The word is an oxymoron in itself.
We WERE, however, a representative republic. The main difference being that we were represented on the state level, and our leaders voted for what was best for the state.

As an example, today we have two seemingly identical bodies at the congressional level: the House and the Senate.
What's so interesting, though, is that they weren't always the same. The idea was that the PEOPLE voted for their representatives in the House to protect their interest, and then the STATE legislatures voted for the Senators, who's only job was to protect the interest of the State.
Where the turn in the road was made, though, I have no idea.

http://www.sobran.com/columns/021212.shtml

Originally posted by jobvdsande
Second... I dislike this arrogance the USA Government imposes when they state a new law... We want, we get, we don't care where you live... if not... your server or ip comes on the "not existing" blacklist... A site of a friend of mine... about the Canabis Regulations here in the Netherlands was on that non existing list for about 9 months... A hacker friend of him found out... His site was blocked by every USA server or ISP... So, with all traffic from Asia being routed through USA... also for them!


Ok this I would love to see you prove, reason is that any IP that might be blacklisted could be traced to the source of why they are not letting the transit happen. sinple e-mail and problem solved.

I recently found a site that was blacklisted by roadrunner ( ISP here in the USA ). the reason they blacklisted was that the site contained a virus that would cause your pc to be come a zombie to an attack.

1 quick e-mail to the web host, inwhich he contact the client and had the page fixed ( it was a medical research site ) and another quick e-mail to road runner and the site was viasable to everyone.

So what happens to hosts that deletes their log files weekly/monthly? hehe :confused:

Originally posted by sbrad

As an example, today we have two seemingly identical bodies at the congressional level: the House and the Senate.
What's so interesting, though, is that they weren't always the same. The idea was that the PEOPLE voted for their representatives in the House to protect their interest, and then the STATE legislatures voted for the Senators, who's only job was to protect the interest of the State.
Where the turn in the road was made, though, I have no idea.

The 17th Admendment. There was an interesting article on CNN's web site last month about it, and giving very good reasons for its appeal. They commented that until the 17th admendment was passed, the special interest groups were being effectively blocked. Since it's passage. the federal government keeps growing....

I was having a debate with my father about some of this and he made the statement that "Don't you think it is important that we be the symbol of liberty?" To which I replied: I think it is more important that we have the actual liberties.

I am also "amused" that one of the reasons we seperated from England was the fact that they would detaim people for indefinite periods of time without ever charging them of a crime. Aren't we now doing the same thing to American citizens? And when challanged, the administration's response is that it is an executive right and not subject to judicial review.

It is a sad commentary of affairs when we start borrowing our policies from Soviet Union, China, and Nazi Germany.

Originally posted by sbrad

As an example, today we have two seemingly identical bodies at the congressional level: the House and the Senate.
What's so interesting, though, is that they weren't always the same. The idea was that the PEOPLE voted for their representatives in the House to protect their interest, and then the STATE legislatures voted for the Senators, who's only job was to protect the interest of the State.
Where the turn in the road was made, though, I have no idea.

If you can, you should read the federalist papers about why they felt it was so important that Senators should be appointed by the State.

Another interesting item was there commentary (again in the federalist papers) on why it was important to that a house representative should never represent more than 50,000 people (the original requirement in the Constitution). Imagine if we repealed the admendment that fixed the size to 424 people - 5,000 representatives! I would hope that with that many representatives we would have more that were listening to their 50,000 constituents instead of to the party leadership.

Do any of you guys know if the constitution applies to non-residents?

Which one? The Bush Revision, or the one our founding fathers signed?

BTW, here is what we all have to look forward to here in the USA:

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2002/1128/901350883HM1TECH.html

I have to say that I am ashamed to be a citizen of this country in the current state of affairs.

As for keeping server logs and turning them over when some investigator needs something to help him perform in bed? Make me. I delete them regularly. Arrest me. I am a terrorist. I deleted my log files!

Good god.

Originally posted by ALTCO
So what happens to hosts that deletes their log files weekly/monthly? hehe :confused:

My understanding is that as a host ( or reseller ) you define the time you will keep the log files ( h-sphere has there log settngs in unix for 14 days ) in the TOS and then, if the government request your log files, for your servers within it's terratory ( that covers Guam, and the Virgin Islands ), you have to comply with that request.

See that's the risk with having servers in the USA, you are subject to the laws within the nation. Here is catch #2, if you have servers off shore, you still are required as a USA domiciled firm to deliver those log files.

so how do you avoid reporting your log files

a) register your firm off shore
b) all transactions are done off shore
c) have no servers within the zone of the USA.

but then again you will be subject to the taxation of the country in which you are doing business with. LOL ton's of fun

Mike

Originally posted by kkimmel


Which one? The Bush Revision, or the one our founding fathers signed?

BTW, here is what we all have to look forward to here in the USA:

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2002/1128/901350883HM1TECH.html

I have to say that I am ashamed to be a citizen of this country in the current state of affairs.

As for keeping server logs and turning them over when some investigator needs something to help him perform in bed? Make me. I delete them regularly. Arrest me. I am a terrorist. I deleted my log files!

Good god.

if you are a host, you are required by law to submit them if requested. if you delete your log files regularly, then I would guess that they would ask for your habit of doing it and ask you to stop so that they can gather the information.

Don't forget, with the new powers enacted, they can take your server for evidence and not return it for a while. so do you want the down time or do you want to comply. that's how they will make you. Very simple and effect way.

If you think you can go around them, just think, I recall on my last trip into Heathrow ( a british international airport for those that don't know ) I went into customs and the guy opened a book, I asked him " what's that for " he replied ...." we are looking for undesireables " Mind you I flew in on a private chartered jet, not the nicest way to be met. Now imagine American CUSTOM AGENTS on your entry, bang you'll have the cuffs on you in a matter of a few moments. Happend to that guy tht wrote the crack for some software and was arrested for DCMA violations last year.

I would think that most server rental companies will now enact deposit incase of seisure or atleast get some sort of coverage.

Enjoy the game with the new rules, I hate it, I am following them, and I have written to my congressman.

Mike

Oh dear America is now lost.

http://www.rense.com/general32/newway.htm

no freedom of speech = uninformed citizens
fanatical extremists + half truths = uninformed citizens

Now, which group are you guys in? :)

Brian

Adehost: the guy you talk about who got arrested won the case... Adobe lost =)

Originally posted by silversurfer
Adehost: the guy you talk about who got arrested won the case... Adobe lost =)
2 points
1) adobe dropped the civil charges against him,
2) he was arrested when he first got here.

Also have you listened to the actions of some people from the linux e-mail list. I believe one of the head developers refuses to disclose some very specific items for fear that he will not be able to travel to the USA, he could be arrested for DCMA violations... go figure.

also if anybody ever get's the chance, visit a prison, you'll understand why I look at everything from the legal view. I just don't want to be in jail.

Mike

if I am not wrong. Adobe drop the case against the programmer so that he would stand as a witness against his boss. then Adobe sue his boss and the company.

But they lost the case. It's a good thing... will make other companies think twice next time.

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Oh dear America is now lost.

http://www.rense.com/general32/newway.htm

Oh brother, what a load of left-wing, conspiracy theory, paranoid schizo crap I've ever read...lol..

With all the lies they have told about their business dealings, and all the false accusations they have made about Saddam and his supposed weapons of mass destruction (that America itself sold to him; Rumsfeld himself brokered the deal), we have every reason - EVERY REASON, WITH GOD AS OUR WITNESS - to believe that they are lying about what happened at the World Trade Center. It was the worst crime in American history, and they committed it. And now they are committing even more crimes against every decent, law-abiding person in the world.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!:D

Perhaps it's leftwinged.... but at least it's not believing what they want you to believe! Trying to form your own opinion and asking questions.

THe thing i have learned... the truth is most of the time so complex that you rather stick to the stories they tell you!

I'm sorry guys... no offence to the Citizins of the USA... But your media sucks! Colombia falls from the air... and what do i see on CNN... Rumors of Terrorist acts... The same image of the space shuttle falling from the air... You just tell the audiance some crap... you show the burning fireball and start blablablaing about the ohhh sooo big threat of terrorisme... They don't tell them info how hard it is to manouvre back from space... Data, risk of space, heat of the pannels if it enters earth... that 2 degree of difference in angle can mean death... No... lets say some bogus about Terrorists... Now that's what i call............... ROTFLMAO!!! But that's believe because we see them 15 times... so they must be true!

So, Don't judge the writter of the so called "left-winged" article before you used your own imagination... and COMMEN SENSE.... and see that a lot of things going on just STINK!

The only thing that we have left is commen sense, and asking questions and hoping on transparancy someday...

Wasting your time with the likes of "artifice" - its easy to be a blind red-kneck.

The party is over for the US, I'm afraid. The future is decline in civil rights, destruction of the constitution, further economic decline and war, war :(. Just like the fall of Rome in fact.

I am a bit confused. There really is not much difference at all in this act and the way things worked in the past. If you are running a public company that is offering a service to the public, why would you have an expectation of privacy? You have always had to provide this information to law enforcement officials upon request, and if you refused they could easily have obtained a court order to seize your entire server. I am confused because if they want to know if someone hit a website, isn't this the same as them walking into an airport and showing pictures to the clerks to see if a criminal has tried to purchase a ticket? I guess the issue comes in because most people surf from home, and have no knowledge that their actions are being logged on every server they visit. Maybe this gives them a false sense of privacy. To me I don't feel like I have an expectation of privacy on the internet, because it is a public network and every place I go is logging my actions. I just woke up so I may be way off here. I just don't see the reason to slam America because of this. I would gladly turn over my logfiles if it would help to prevent more planes from slamming into 5,000 of my fellow citizens. I usually don't get into these discussions because I see the point of both sides. Anyways I just don't see the problem.

--------
Oh brother, what a load of left-wing
--------

Viewing politics and the power structures that exist in the world, in the US or elsewhere in terms of one dimensional spacial metaphors is not only overly simplistic but incredibly naive imho.

---
, conspiracy theory
----

Conspiracy does and always will happen. Conspiracies are as old as history itself. That's why machiavelli is probably on every politicians reading list at some point in their education. That's what we have security services for. Discarding any theory that doesn't fit with conventional wisdom and labeling it a 'conspiracy theory' as a put-down is odd to say the least as conspiracies have been proven time and again to have happened.

Lets also remember that those people that supported Hitler also adopted their own societies 'conventional wisdom' and could be considered 'patriotic' at that time and in the context of their own country. Anyone who realised what they were up to before they put their plans into action could also be labelled a 'conspiracy theorist' but history proved that their government was conspiring - in many cases against their own people.

They might also be considered un-patriotic, but were they? Look at the s**t germany got themselves into as a result of their actions. Perhaps the un-patriotic conspiracy theorists of that time should be considered the real patriots because they ultimately had the best interests of their country and people at heart the whole time and had the intelligence to think for themselves and step outside the 'conventional' herd mentality.

----
, paranoid
----

Yes, perhaps but ofcourse it's not paranoia if they really are out to get you (not saying they are but just illustrating a point).

---
schizo crap I've ever read...lol..
---

"A paranoid schizophrenic is somebody who just found out what's really going on," the late William S. Burroughs


I'm not saying that you're wrong about that article. You could be absolutely right. I wouldn't agree with it all myself particularly in terms of sentiment. I just hate to see such dismissive cliches dragged out again and again to ridicule a theory without reason.

No offence meant ;)