Alright this is a long story. To put it short rackforce reformatted my server before a deadline.


Long story:
I had a server with them, there raptor or whatever. Well they did not email me that payment was due, they just unplugged my server. Which I can agree with the, on that no payment=shutdown. But normally they call or email. Then they start giving me crap. They would turn it back on for $50+the monthly fee which was I think $215 or something. I don't have a credit card so it took me some time to find one that I could use (Ended up being my brothers). They said I had 14 days from the 7th of this month (November 2002). Which would put the reformat date at the 21st. Well its the 18th, I call up and htey say the servers been formatted.

I loved thier support, but I'm sick of their crap, I'm sick of their billing department, I'm sick of their lack of communication.

[/ENDRANT]

So rackforce if your out there get your crap togethor. Trusted you losers.


I apologize to WHT (excluding rackforce works on here) I'm upset though cause they didn't keep their word

How did you pay to start with, and how did you intend to pay for 2nd month?

Other part of the long story, a guy that I did a business project I was working on (catchtraffic.com), I paid him then he paid them (I paid him via paypal). Well he like disappeared, then server got shut off. I knew I had a backup card availible (my brothers), but the fact they formatted it 3 days early is what makes me mad.

Have you thought about having them automatically deduct from that card, and then paying your brother back if need be?

at this point I'll never be a customer of them as long as I live. I didn't really think about that though.

ouch!

:D

Tell me about it. I lost alot of data too.

Originally posted by interactive
Tell me about it. I lost alot of data too.

While I agree that what Rackforce did was not a responsible move on their part, you should also assume the blame as well. Why would you wait until 3 days before they threaten to unplug your server, before doing anything? If you were serious about the data on that server, you would have used your brother's card right away when they emailed you the first time.

-Steven

backups man :(

sorry to hear that this happened to you..

Losing data is never fun. Sorry it happened to you mate.

Did do backups, and I sorta explained why I didn't use his card earlier in the thread. Cause it took me time to find a card that I could use (from a trustworthy person).

Why didn't you pay with Paypal to them? Even if they didn't have a Paypal accoutn you could have used your Virtual Debit Card.

Anyway, hope you didn't lose to much data.

Originally posted by Neo3Net
Why didn't you pay with Paypal to them? Even if they didn't have a Paypal accoutn you could have used your Virtual Debit Card.

Anyway, hope you didn't lose to much data.

Don't have a "virtual" debt card.

This was an unfortunant breakdown of communication, overdue account and our holding policy for pulled servers. Our general guideline is 48 h disconnection from notice from billing.

Disconnection means we walk down and pull the plug for 48 hours. If that time passes, we pull the drive, and put the server into production. And if more time passes, we put the drive into production as this is costing us money by not being available to other clients.

That aside, what happened with this customer is very sad, and it has made our company re-evaluate our communication, our holding period and how we can prevent this in the future with overdue clients.

We do have a support queue and tracking system that you can communicate with technicians and also a billing tracking system. If you are late, and have recieved notification, use these tools for both departments, technicians check the trouble ticket queue 24x7. A ticket from this customer telling technicians about the delays for payment may prevent this in the future.

Communication for both departments I feel is important when these types of situations occur.

This wont restore your data, but as the Support Manager, I truely sympathise with your data loss. However, the service agreement is clear that we are not responsible for data after the 1 month of service is due.

For others reading this post...

What does this mean for our unpaid customers...

When you pay for your month, you are covered by our service agreements and our limited liablility.

If you fail to pay, you are in breach of the agreement, and default to our termination of Agreement where we notify you of disconnection. Generally we don't pull the plug unless there is no communication back from the customer. Billing tries to contact the customer first. If its determined payment is not going to be made within a reasonable time, a 48 hour disconnection notice is issued.

Is your data our responsibility during this time? Technically no, you are no longer in the paid month covered by the service agreement and that server is our property. Limited Liability is only for the Paid month, there is no agreement and no liabilty during the unpaid period. So yes, your data is at risk as you are no longer under any agreements and the unpaid month is not covered by limited liability.

However, we do pull and hold the drive for a period of time after the 48 hour disconnect. As to the official holding time which has been discussed in meetings, I have to follow up on this.

Its sad that we lost you as a customer, and that I feel you are correct that communication is important. Nothing stops you from contacting Support and telling us that you are working this out, and to preserve your data, we are more then happy to work with you on these issues. There is no moving backwards, so we must look at what we can do better both as a company, and as customers in these situations.

Regards,
Ian Wilson
RackForce Support Manager

Excuse Excuse!!

I have a very bad experience with them too.

In short!!!!!

support suggested my server is compromised....advise me to move to a new machine.

Negotiate price and etc.
Last understanding...they will move the accounts on my current server(the one they say it has been compromised) to the new one for $150

Set up server. I pay additional for external cpanel license for the server.
and they help me move my account there.

HERE IS THE INTERESTING PART
##########################
WHAT THEY DID IS THEY MOVE MY ACCOUNT
files from /home and mysql.

thats all.


CONCLUSION.I LOST OVER 50 CUSTOMERS.
THEY ARE VERY TRICKY AND GOOD IN THEIR FREAKIN XCUSE AND PLAYING WITH WORDS.

STAY AWAY FROM RACKFORCE!!!

I complain and they say. they did what they (our agreement are) move the account but not setup the named or account or httpd.

What a bulls$$it

TALKING ABOUT THEM AGIAN MAKE ME pukeee

+

THEY STILL CHARGE ME $150 for that so call support......

By the way...any idea how can i file a charge back on them?
What are the procedures?

As for Ian Wilson, sorrry i cant be bother to read your EXCUSE you posted up there.

I strongly suggest that despite some 'good comments abt them' around the forum, STAY AWAY FROM RACKFORCE.COM.

Originally posted by cheCCa
Excuse Excuse!!

I have a very bad experience with them too.

In short!!!!!

support suggested my server is compromised....advise me to move to a new machine.

Negotiate price and etc.
Last understanding...they will move the accounts on my current server(the one they say it has been compromised) to the new one for $150

Set up server. I pay additional for external cpanel license for the server.
and they help me move my account there.

HERE IS THE INTERESTING PART
##########################
WHAT THEY DID IS THEY MOVE MY ACCOUNT
files from /home and mysql.

thats all.


CONCLUSION.I LOST OVER 50 CUSTOMERS.
THEY ARE VERY TRICKY AND GOOD IN THEIR FREAKIN XCUSE AND PLAYING WITH WORDS.

STAY AWAY FROM RACKFORCE!!!

I complain and they say. they did what they (our agreement are) move the account but not setup the named or account or httpd.

What a bulls$$it

TALKING ABOUT THEM AGIAN MAKE ME pukeee

+

THEY STILL CHARGE ME $150 for that so call support......

By the way...any idea how can i file a charge back on them?
What are the procedures?

Umm....., So why did you apparetly get duped?? For what?? :confused: Were you overcharged?? I've always been billed appropriately and at times i've not been charged for service that according to their site they do charge for, care to elaborate a little......from what you've said it looks like a lot of useless hot air. I don't think they ever did offer cpanel on their site, well at least when I found them.

I have nothing but praises for Ian and the support team, tickets are answered within 5 - 10 minutes, and they immediately help you out keeping you up to date on what they are doing to the box, fixing it, and carefully explaining why there was a problem and how, if possible, to avoid it in the future.

In this case, yes the customers system was comprimised. They handed out shell access, and several of the shell clients who didn't clean up their history were attepmting to su to root.

Other customers had removed their history. Shell access is almost as good as root because a person can now use the tools left on the system, to exploit the kernel and other processes and programs to elevate privilages to root quite easily.

We do not support Cpanel period. And this was made very clear to this customer.

We agreed to move the data, and install Cpanel to the best of our ability, but the customer was to set up all the accounts for that data.

We followed our commitments, and when the customer had issues with Cpanel and their extended expectations, we were unable to support because that is a tool we never used before.

You lost 50 customers because you gave out shell access to hackers and didn't secure the server for shell access.
The system was working fine until it was comprimised.

Once it was comprimised it was turned into a spam box.

I can understand your fustration, but from my perspective, we spent well over 10 hours dealing with support on this issue, and we charged you only $150 where it could have cost $500.

We charge $50 us for non-supported support issues, and that is very very reasonable.

There is a huge history here, and I know my team did the best they could for you. There is no way we could have set up all the accounts, configure named, httpd etc for your clients. We do not do that because then the cost would be well over $500.

You payed for OS install, Data move, and we ran the Cpanel install to the letter.

WE fullfilled our agreement, and did the best we could for a system we do not support. You are angry because you fell victem to hackers who are really the ones responsible for the damage, and the cause and effect which triggered a chain of events you also were not happy with.

No one wants to have a bad experience. But we don't live in a world where every solution is simple, and every problem you can just walk away from. There are people who destroy systems, you give them too much power on a computer, and you will pay the price.

So before you give out shell access... ask yourself, would you let this person drive your car? In this case... drive your buisness?

I am very sorry that you had a bad experience, its going to happen. No one can please everyone, but they can sure work hard to do so.

We have lost very few customers because of hackers. But when we do, we pay a heavy toll because they give hackers access to their systems, and blame us.

Generally these people do not know very much about Unix, and want a simple easy solution to administer what they do know which is webhosting. They feel because customers demand shell access, this is ok to make a customer happy, with out knowing or understanding the risks involved.

But if we harden the system for normal use, then every customer would complain that their normal tools for administration are missing.

A shell accessable system is a totally different ball game. Its in our AUP that we do not allow the reselling of Shell access just for this reason.

So for the future, blaming people who help you for the damage caused by those who hurt you isn't going to add up in the end.

If I was shot in the head, and rushed to emergency, and the doctor there wasn't a skilled neurosurgen, but they had to operate to save my life and spend hours and hours trying to save my life and I die... is it the doctors fault? Or the person who shot me?

You were hacked, we tried to help, we made it clear we don't support Cpanel. What more do you want?

Ian Wilson
RackForce Support Manager

checca, when someone moves an OS, its expected that the accounts are to be moved by the client. At least that's what I've always understood. Same with backups on most dedicated servers. The websites are not backed up, just the basics. This was unfortunately probably just an incorrect assumption on your part, not a play on words.

rackforce doesn't offer Cpanel, so moving you involved a bit more than just setting you up. Your new server was most likely already set up with Plesk, so it would have had to be reformatted as well. I'm sure they warned you several times when you set up Cpanel in the first place (as they did with me) that Cpanel and its issues were not supported. If they had completely followed their guidelines, they could have charged you $500 for moving it, plus charges for the original problem that caused you to be disconnected in the first place.

I can see from your side how this was a bad experience, but it doesn't warrant a "stay away from rackforce" warning IMHO.

Ya, checca you really got a deal for that cpanel install. 10 hours of labour for $150 in the computer industry is like a gift.

That bad man :)

What company is that ? They say there are goin to format on the 21 and than they format on the 18 ????


They don't send email ?

Come on...there are bether host out there ... give than a good chance :)

*rackshack.net*
*unitedcolo.com*
*fastservers.com*

I bet you can find one off this that can suply our needs... :)

it all comes down to paying your bills , and backing up data . Had both of aspects been taken care of in a professional manner , this post would be non-exsistant . You may have had an agreement , but come on ... 14 days . Just think what happens when your 14 days late on rent or utility bills

Originally posted by hostingsp
That bad man :)

What company is that ? They say there are goin to format on the 21 and than they format on the 18 ????


They don't send email ?

Come on...there are bether host out there ... give than a good chance :)

*rackshack.net*
*unitedcolo.com*
*fastservers.com*

I bet you can find one off this that can suply our needs... :)

That was a mistake that occured due to a miscommunication - that they have already said they have put plans in motion to fix. This occured while they were going out of their way to help when their policy clearly dictated that the data would not have been available.

Hardly a reason to count them out.

I've enjoyed your support while I was with you. Like I said rackforce support is awesome particularly Ian. My problem is your billing lady, sad 21 days. Not 48 hours quiet a bit of a difference. This is pure bull**** (not really on your part Ian), I wish you luck but look down on the company you work for. There's a lack of communication going on somewhere and it needs to be fixed.

Originally posted by Ian Wilson
This was an unfortunant breakdown of communication, overdue account and our holding policy for pulled servers. Our general guideline is 48 h disconnection from notice from billing.

Disconnection means we walk down and pull the plug for 48 hours. If that time passes, we pull the drive, and put the server into production. And if more time passes, we put the drive into production as this is costing us money by not being available to other clients.

That aside, what happened with this customer is very sad, and it has made our company re-evaluate our communication, our holding period and how we can prevent this in the future with overdue clients.

We do have a support queue and tracking system that you can communicate with technicians and also a billing tracking system. If you are late, and have recieved notification, use these tools for both departments, technicians check the trouble ticket queue 24x7. A ticket from this customer telling technicians about the delays for payment may prevent this in the future.

Communication for both departments I feel is important when these types of situations occur.

This wont restore your data, but as the Support Manager, I truely sympathise with your data loss. However, the service agreement is clear that we are not responsible for data after the 1 month of service is due.

For others reading this post...

What does this mean for our unpaid customers...

When you pay for your month, you are covered by our service agreements and our limited liablility.

If you fail to pay, you are in breach of the agreement, and default to our termination of Agreement where we notify you of disconnection. Generally we don't pull the plug unless there is no communication back from the customer. Billing tries to contact the customer first. If its determined payment is not going to be made within a reasonable time, a 48 hour disconnection notice is issued.

Is your data our responsibility during this time? Technically no, you are no longer in the paid month covered by the service agreement and that server is our property. Limited Liability is only for the Paid month, there is no agreement and no liabilty during the unpaid period. So yes, your data is at risk as you are no longer under any agreements and the unpaid month is not covered by limited liability.

However, we do pull and hold the drive for a period of time after the 48 hour disconnect. As to the official holding time which has been discussed in meetings, I have to follow up on this.

Its sad that we lost you as a customer, and that I feel you are correct that communication is important. Nothing stops you from contacting Support and telling us that you are working this out, and to preserve your data, we are more then happy to work with you on these issues. There is no moving backwards, so we must look at what we can do better both as a company, and as customers in these situations.

Regards,
Ian Wilson
RackForce Support Manager

I dont feel sorry at all for both of these people.

You dont pay your bills, What do you expect? If these servers were so critical, you would of made sure that bill was paid the day you got the notice. You dont play the game of waiting till the last minute to pay.

And as for the other person.. Its my belief that when getting a dedicated server, I'm purchasing Bandwidth and hardware from them.. Everything else as an administrator is my responsibility. Your server was compromised. That is your problem.. Your server being used as spam central becomes your providers problem because you are most likely breaking AUP. I wouldnt of felt sorry for you if they notified you of the compromise, and then a few days later pulled the plug on your system when you didnt fix it.. You got even better, they offered to help you for a nominal fee.. And you complain..


I charge 150 just to walk into the door of a company... Seemed like you were given ALOT of time for free due to them feeling sorry for your situation.. Which that time wasn't really free. Rackforce still has to pay those techs for their time..

As you will often see repeated MANY MANY times here.. It is the users responsibility to backup their data. Even if your host/datacenter says they provide backups. I would still back it up. Something that important to you and/or your business should not be left in other peoples hands.

Good, I don't want sympathy. My problem is the fact that they didn't keep their word.


Originally posted by Pkspawn
I dont feel sorry at all for both of these people.

You dont pay your bills, What do you expect? If these servers were so critical, you would of made sure that bill was paid the day you got the notice. You dont play the game of waiting till the last minute to pay.

And as for the other person.. Its my belief that when getting a dedicated server, I'm purchasing Bandwidth and hardware from them.. Everything else as an administrator is my responsibility. Your server was compromised. That is your problem.. Your server being used as spam central becomes your providers problem because you are most likely breaking AUP. I wouldnt of felt sorry for you if they notified you of the compromise, and then a few days later pulled the plug on your system when you didnt fix it.. You got even better, they offered to help you for a nominal fee.. And you complain..


I charge 150 just to walk into the door of a company... Seemed like you were given ALOT of time for free due to them feeling sorry for your situation.. Which that time wasn't really free. Rackforce still has to pay those techs for their time..

As you will often see repeated MANY MANY times here.. It is the users responsibility to backup their data. Even if your host/datacenter says they provide backups. I would still back it up. Something that important to you and/or your business should not be left in other peoples hands.

BTW, $150 what do you do? Janitor (joking). I used to work for a consulting company. They'd charge around $800 just to walk in.

Originally posted by Pkspawn
I dont feel sorry at all for both of these people.

You dont pay your bills, What do you expect? If these servers were so critical, you would of made sure that bill was paid the day you got the notice. You dont play the game of waiting till the last minute to pay.

And as for the other person.. Its my belief that when getting a dedicated server, I'm purchasing Bandwidth and hardware from them.. Everything else as an administrator is my responsibility. Your server was compromised. That is your problem.. Your server being used as spam central becomes your providers problem because you are most likely breaking AUP. I wouldnt of felt sorry for you if they notified you of the compromise, and then a few days later pulled the plug on your system when you didnt fix it.. You got even better, they offered to help you for a nominal fee.. And you complain..


I charge 150 just to walk into the door of a company... Seemed like you were given ALOT of time for free due to them feeling sorry for your situation.. Which that time wasn't really free. Rackforce still has to pay those techs for their time..

As you will often see repeated MANY MANY times here.. It is the users responsibility to backup their data. Even if your host/datacenter says they provide backups. I would still back it up. Something that important to you and/or your business should not be left in other peoples hands.

Rackforce seems like a cool cat, the attitude of Interactive shows that maybe Rackforce can do easily without Interactive.

Originally posted by Samuel
Rackforce seems like a cool cat, the attitude of Interactive shows that maybe Rackforce can do easily without Interactive.

Just as or more so WHT can do without you!