Obviously, I was not the only person to get todays newsletter... I just went over it quickly, but can someone put this into plain english for me? What the heck is going on?

Thanks,
Mekhu

nothing here yet...

www.presage-designs.com/2co.html

Copy and pasted.

LMFAO, "effective Nov. 17th"... YESTERDAY.

The biggest BS part of this new change is the requirement of us to place this line on our order page.

Some credit card and e-check purchases will be sold by 2Checkout.com,
Inc. - Ohio, U.S.A. Products or services provided by <your company
name>

Some credit card and e-check purchases will be sold by 2Checkout.com???

What do you mean "some"? Something more professional ..god!!

How about:

Credit card and e-check purchases will be processed by 2Checkout.com - Ohio, U.S.A. Products or services provided by <your company
name>

As someone looking to make a purchase..as soon as i saw "Some credit card and e-check purchases will be sold by 2Checkout.com"...i would think 2 things....1) they will be selling my personal details...cc info...it simply does not make any sense...

gezz. I am ok with everything else ..but this requirement needs to be re-worded.

:eek:

Originally posted by Mekhu
Obviously, I was not the only person to get todays newsletter... I just went over it quickly, but can someone put this into plain english for me? What the heck is going on?

Thanks,
Mekhu

2CO changed their policies due to the new VISA regulations. Now 2CO resells your services and you need to do the following things:
- approve the new terms by Nov 25th
- update your page to show:
"Some credit card and e-check purchases will be sold by 2Checkout.com,
Inc. - Ohio, U.S.A. Products or services provided by <your company
name>"

Also, due to the Patriot Act (or whatever its called) they now need info on you, e.g.:
social insurance #
drivers license #
passport #
etc.

The only good thing is now that they offer a 'soft' descriptor, i.e. your name shows up (I guess) something like: 2checkout.com for yourcompany

Very good point. I was a little lost on the entire email as I just browsed through it quick (will sit down with it later), but very good point.

I'll send off an email after.

Originally posted by pcsteve

gezz. I am ok with everything else ..but this requirement needs to be re-worded.

:eek:

I'm sure you can change that line a little as long as the fact that 2CO now sells them the service is clear....

btw, I left out the cheque part because I don't accept cheques....

dhabets, thanks for the clarification.

Not 100% sure about giving out my info, but I guess I have to in order to stay with these guys...

Originally posted by Mekhu
dhabets, thanks for the clarification.

Not 100% sure about giving out my info, but I guess I have to in order to stay with these guys...

THey also had the option of giving them student id? I have no clue what they want, but I just gave them my student id # :D should be good enough....

lol...

I am Canadian, so I take we are just to give them as much info as possible?

Man... it's like hassle after hassle with these online payment companies :D

When logging into 2checkout account it has the new terms, and


count Establishment Fee
The Supplier agrees to pay a setup fee for the establishment of an account with the Company.

This fee is $49.00 USD.


Surely this is for only new accounts?

Zak

Will someone please clerify that the $49 fee is only for BRAND NEW accounts?

The new 2checkout agreement is not bad, although the holdback is a little dissapointing, yet expected. If they improve support, add an ATM card - it will justify this hassle and holdback amounts.

Some of what they are saying is true. There is a whole slew of post 9-11 government BS, that companies have to adhere to. The days of conducting almost anonymous financial transactions are pretty much long gone or becoming more difficult.

Here is the full email for everyone to pick apart:



This is another test for formatting purposes.

The Management of 2Checkout.com strongly recommends that you
review this document and associated documentation in its entirety.

Effective, November 17, 2002, 2CO will be changing the terms of
the service agreement under which it provides services to its
contracted vendors. The next time you login to your Admin panel,
you will be redirected to the new Supplier Agreement, Operating
Guidelines and general Terms of Service.

The establishment and implementation of new guidelines by major
credit card companies and the enforcement of existing guidelines
made these changes necessary. Please note that every effort has
been made to minimize the effect realized by the end-user - the
customer.

Many of you are aware of the nature of the new regulations and
have expressed concern. Obviously the staff and management of
2CO have been concerned as well. Taking all of the changes into
consideration - and estimating the likely effect on global
third-party processing - the objective became a business structure
that would enable 2CO to continue to offer a cost-effective
alternative to our vendors.

The decision was made to avoid a multi-layered short-term approach
that would undoubtedly have a negative impact on the fees offered
to a very large portion of our vendor base. Subsequently, 2CO
decided to contract with what is probably the best 'card not
present' company to improve our processing position and ascertain
what the best course of action for long term stability and growth
would be.

We feel we've succeeded. The result is a supplier/reseller
arrangement that not only enables us to keep our fee structure
the same while at the same time adding additional staff and new
features, but also affords us the ability to offer several premium
enhancements to the service.

· Descriptor Capability - your 'name' will appear on the customer's
credit card statement
· Multi-Currency Interface - the customer chooses at the time of
service the currency in which they want to pay - the amount they
see as the charge is exactly the amount billed to their credit
card
· ATM Card - a true "brick and mortar" bank account enabling payment
transfers via direct deposit at no issuing cost to you
· Faster Processing - a direct processing platform eliminates the
'middle man'
· Lower Chargeback Fees - a reduction in the fees incurred for
chargebacks
· New Fraud Controls - comprehensive and fully integrated fraud
controls
· Higher Earnings - those current active accounts that remain active
through December 31, 2002 will enjoy a rate reduction to 5% and 45
per transaction
· New 2Checkout.com Mall - designed and promoted to help merchants
sell (similar to a yahoo store)

2Checkout.com will also be redesigning and restructuring its entire
website, supplier control panel and three-way customer service
interface. The new design will include many of the requests submitted
during the last six months.


"What do I need to do?"

Credit card regulations require that the potential customer be informed
of 2CO's role as the actual "seller" prior to the payment portion of
the process. This requires a text disclaimer to be posted on your
website that indicates:

"Some credit card and e-check purchases will be sold by 2Checkout.com,
Inc. - Ohio, U.S.A. Products or services provided by <your company
name>"

Additionally, Credit Card regulations require that the customer's
credit card not actually be billed until the order has been fulfilled
(i.e. accessed digital goods such as ebooks, webhosting enabled,
service fulfillment) or shipped (tangible goods or delayed service
fulfillment). Because of this regulation 2CO will now require items
to be fulfilled or shipped before the card transaction is settled and
fund released.

Finally, the "new reserve policy" of a 5% / 90 day rolling reserve
will be mandatory (even for accounts previously grandfathered) and
will replace the existing reserve policy.

The new Terms of Service, Supplier Agreement and Operating Guidelines
must be acknowledged as "acceptable" prior to November 25, 2002.
Upon agreement you will be forwarded to a new Account Information
screen that requests some new information from you. This information
needs to be completed to comply with the USA's New Patriot Act
guidelines and to complete your registration as an affiliated vendor
of 2Checkout.com.

If you do not respond or update the page by November 25, 2002 you
will be notified that your account will be suspended and no further
sales will be processed on your behalf effective 12:01 AM on
December 1, 2002.

Everyone at 2CO greatly appreciates the vendors who have utilized
our services in the past. We believe we've established an extremely
strong banking relationship and the resulting stability will result
in better service to you.


Thank you for contributing to our success and our sincere hopes for
your own success.


Regards,
The Management
2Checkout.com, Inc.

hrmmm,
sounds like it isnt to bad but yes i agree that need to reword the "Some credit card and e-check purchases will be sold by 2Checkout.com,
Inc. - Ohio, U.S.A. Products or services provided by <your company
name>"
part to make it easer on the end users. UNless thats just an example of what you could use.

I dont use them my self but this is good to know this before i decide on a merchent account or going with 2CO or any of the other 3rd party CCP's

I'm not sure I want 2CheckOut reselling my service. I'm not sure I really want them representing my company!:angry:

I don't use 'em, and instead have real merchant accounts for Visa/MC/Amex/Discover.

I signed up, used the service twice, and "No thanks!".

I then got merchant accounts with Wells Fargo, and have not had a single regret in doing so. Transfers happen in 48 hours, cheaper rates all the way around, etc.

Tom

From the 2checkout forums (posted because it is a good explanation in English):

Here is a short announcement on the changes we are proceeding with. We will follow with more information as outlined below.

2checkout.com has repositioned themselves, in the market so as to not be classified as an IPSP.
A brief overview is this:

2checkout.com is becoming a "reseller of your products". Basically, we are becoming a virtual mall/ department store, where you supply goods/ services to be sold to customers worldwide. In essence, we are purchasing goods from you, and selling them to the customer. In reality, The customers will visit your website, and make the purchase with very little change than before. With this change, it is immaterial where your business is located, which is a key component of the IPSP designation.

As suppliers, you will need to ensure the Return policy & fact that 2checkout.com is the "seller" is displayed and clear to the purchaser. (even if my wording here isn't clear)

Transactions will be "authorized only" until you "ship" the item. Once you check off that an item is shipped, the order will be finalized, and the sale will be credited to your 2checkout.com account. By regulation of Visa & MasterCard, these authorizations can only be "up to" 7 days in length.

Our TOS will be updated to reflect the change in our business arrangement with you, our Vendors. There will be a grace period allowing you time to accept the TOS. Once this period has passed, you will either agree to the new TOS, or find alternative processing sources.

Those customers that stay with our services over the transition period into the New Year will have their processing rates reduced. This will be a permanent reduction for those suppliers, to 1/2% below that charged to new accounts. (i.e.. reduced to 5.00%, from the current 5.5%, in January 2003).

Included with these changes, will be some of the enhancements that you've been asking for. 2 key additions will be a name descriptor on the customer credit card statements (i.e. shockwave-sound thru 2checkout.com) and Multi-Currency processing for Visa and Mastercard.

Part of this change has been to change our Merchant provider, to one more flexible to our needs, and more 'up-to-date' for our business. This change will be done seamlessly, over the next 10 days.

At some point prior to 2003, we hope to release our ATM card to our suppliers. We've discussed these in the past in these forums. We have agreements signed, it is just a case of implementation. These ATM cards will INCLUDE a true USA bank account for our International suppliers. To my knowledge (without the information in front of me) the cost for these cards will be $50.00 US Dollars, of which $25.00 is deposited in your new bank account. The account will provide you with both ATM and Checking privileges. We will then send your payments via ACH (no charge) from your 2checkout.com account, to your USA bank account. A key here is that it is YOUR account. This is not a "pool account". You control it. These ATM cards and Bank Accounts will ONLY be available to suppliers with accounts marked "clean" by our verifiers. (the group that delay your payments *g*)

An email announcement is being prepared this weekend, to include the changes in 'terminology', the updated TOS, the new responsibilities and the time frame for implementation. We will send this out at the beginning of next week.

I apologize for the delay in this announcement. Rest assured that the management team of 2checkout.com have been working 'around the clock' researching the most effective ways to comply with the changes imposed by Visa and Mastercard, in a manner that will least impact our suppliers(you) pocketbook.

I'm sure there will be lots of questions and concerns. Please do not email me, or open tickets regarding the changes. Please stick to discussing the changes in this string, and I'll attempt to get in here to answer questions. The employees that monitor tickets simply can not provide you with more information at this point in time, and it would be redundant for me to answer emails and post here.

I wonder if it opens liability....if something goes horrible wrong with a merchant and 2checkout is now the provider of that service, could they be sued over it.

I still haven't decided how I feel about the whole thing...I do like some of the terms but I really like to see how this whole 'internet mall' thing pans out.

One thing that really troubles me is a post from somebody who said they hand make all of their products and they sometimes can't get that done in the 7 day authorization period. That client is told to 'You are going to have to change how you do business.'

I wouldn't think there's any reason you couldn't change that "Some..." line to something else, as long as the point is made clear, as the letter says, that 2checkout is the actual "seller." Leave off "some" if it's actually "all." Seems pretty clear.

By the way, that "this is a test for formatting purposes" at the top makes me think that this version probably wasn't supposed to be mailed out... we may still see some edits.

By the way, that "this is a test for formatting purposes" at the top makes me think that this version probably wasn't supposed to be mailed out... we may still see some edits.

I think you are correct. I just received another one from 2checkout...I'm looking them over to see whats different than the first.

I'm not sure I want 2CheckOut reselling my service. I'm not sure I really want them representing my company!
This is not new, it has always been like that - I found that out the hard way. In otherwords, you and your customers are at their mercy and bascially according to their agreement they are not your clients but theirs, as far as payment processing is concerned.

Ok, what are the alternatives for hosts with low volume? Is Paysystem the only one?

TF

The Fish, maybe I am wrong on this, but wouldn't all companies such as 2CO, be the same? Meaning wouldn't they all have to make changes?

Also, thanks to everyone for the help on turning the email into understandable english :D

Thanks,
Jeff

Originally posted by Mekhu
lol...

I am Canadian, so I take we are just to give them as much info as possible?

Man... it's like hassle after hassle with these online payment companies :D

Canada here as well... I just gave em my student # (which is pretty much useless, but they did say "Student ID") heh... :D

WHen you guys login and go to the payments part can you see your balance? Coz nothing shows up for me :O! In both of my 2CO accounts.

Originally posted by ikiwi.net
WHen you guys login and go to the payments part can you see your balance? Coz nothing shows up for me :O! In both of my 2CO accounts.

Maybe you got paid by 2CO? (16th)

I think this point also affect us:
Additionally, Credit Card regulations require that the customer's
credit card not actually be billed until the order has been fulfilled
(i.e. accessed digital goods such as ebooks, webhosting enabled,
service fulfillment) or shipped (tangible goods or delayed service
fulfillment). Because of this regulation 2CO will now require items
to be fulfilled or shipped before the card transaction is settled and
fund released.
They need the custiomer received our service first and then 2co process the charging.How do 2CO know we are providing service for them?
May be customer need to click a link to enable us charging them.

what does this point mean?
Finally, the "new reserve policy" of a 5% / 90 day rolling reserve
will be mandatory (even for accounts previously grandfathered) and
will replace the existing reserve policy.

I copy this from 2CO TOS:
Interoperability
The Company is the Internet-based distribution center for over 10,000 products and services offered for sale by eCommerce vendors.

The Company offers real-time purchasing capability by effectively purchasing the Suppliers goods or services and enabling that purchase by VISA, MasterCard, Discover, American Express, Diner¡¦s Club, JCB and all VISA and MasterCard-sponsored debit cards.

Each sale results in a payment of 5.5% and $.45 to the Company. The balance of the transaction is payable to the Supplier as a commission.

they said the 5.5% will be reduced to 5%.But the new TOS shows it is still 5.5%.So strange?

But... one question I guess still remains... how can paypal do it cheaper and without becoming an "internet mall"...

I haven't seen any of these changes visible at Paypal yet, surely they handle more transactions than 2checkout... and have WAY more customers.

Something just doesn't sound right.

What about the 2CO modules that have been developed into certain hosting applications to implement some sort of automatic account creation? Would they accept those? If for example, the ModernBill 2CO module was modified to return a success flag to a 2CO transaction that confirms that the account *was* successfully set up and the client email address notified.

Otherwise this is defeating the purpose of a whole lot of development work, yes?

Gary

WHen you guys login and go to the payments part can you see your balance? Coz nothing shows up for me :O! In both of my 2CO accounts.

Same here. I have clients that should have been billed. Nobody has been billed since the 14th. The few that have been billed get a failed credit card error. All clients are telling me their cards are fine and in one case, I even spoke to the clients bank who assured me the amount I was trying to bill should not be an issue. So far, no response from 2checkout. I'm *hoping* it is only a delay because of the new set-up and not a bigger issue. I can't imagine this going on for the rest of the month and server bills come around :rolleyes:

a couple of quick "clarification" comments if I may.

1. It says "some credit card sales...." simply because your site may have multiple processors (ie...u may accept PayPal). Those sales wouldn't be handled by us. If you can come up with workable wording, that encompasses this concept, please send it to me, we'll certainly consider it.

2. We've always had the 'limited liability' for selling the products. That is the reason we've placed so many items on our prohibited products list.

3. e-Products & services (like webhosting) will not require you to manually mark the item as shipped.

4. PaySystems is a reseller also, in much the same context.

5. The 7 day maximum authorization policy is a Visa Regulation.

5. The posted rate for our services (hence the rates in the TOS) are 5.5% + $0.45 per transaction. CURRENT, ACTIVE (both prior to Nov. 18th) accounts, that stay with us into the New Year will have their rates reduced to 5.0% + $0.45.

I hope this clarification helps.

I hope they can back to normal ASAP.
Upgrade is not bad but they should keep the service running smoothly.

Originally posted by TomD
3. e-Products & services (like webhosting) will not require you to manually mark the item as shipped.

Ahh...that should be good news to most.

Gary

Not to rag on 2co anymore than I already have, but I've got a recurring customer that was received a "failure" notice on one attempt of her payment... fine, that happens.

Next day, charge went through fine...

Following day, and subsequently, I keep getting a recurrring billing error - same transaction number. They really need to get their act together over there. The payment is already listed as collected on their site !!

Oh how I wish I could get a refund and get the hell away from them.

Edit: Ironically, as I'm typing this message, I just got the second recurring billing notice today, for the same invoice - the one that has already been paid and credited to my account. Sheesh. Add that to the test formatting notices they sent out earlier - something's REALLY wrong.

I want to leave them too.I wonder can I get my $49 setup fee back??
I lost one potential customer and got fail billing note this morning.
I will wait 1 week.if they dun solve this problem,I must leave them.

ME 2!

I am glad it is not JUST me.

ALL (I MEAN ALL, not even one) of my recuring sales has been failed.

What's going on 2CO ?

Originally posted by TomD
a couple of quick "clarification" comments if I may.

1. It says "some credit card sales...." simply because your site may have multiple processors (ie...u may accept PayPal). Those sales wouldn't be handled by us. If you can come up with workable wording, that encompasses this concept, please send it to me, we'll certainly consider it.


Tom what about (for those only using 2checkout as their payment processor)

"Credit card purchases are processed by 2Checkout.com, Inc. - Ohio, U.S.A. Products or services provided by YOUR COMPANY"

Seems much better

:)

Just to clerify, the $49 fee is ONLY for NEW accounts, and not for existing customers. This was clerified by 2checkout support.

I don't know what is going on, but my support tickets are really getting answered much faster than previously. Maybe 2checkout is improving support? I am skeptical, but time will tell... Let's not write them off just yet afterall...

1. As I said in my PM Steve, I've forwarded the suggestion on.

2. If you have a recurring that is not billing, send me an email with the transaction numbers so I can get it investigated.

3. If you want to close your account same as #2, include the ID number you received on signup and use the email address you have registered.

4. Other than the 400+ tickets being opened in the last 6 hours regarding the TOS, we have more support staff available now that the changes have been done. Support times should speed up.

Is there something wrong with 2checkout.com adding new re-occuring billing today?

I have a new site design I am launching & I am adding multiple re-occuring buttons to one page. I have different product ID codes on every button, but it is all screwed up. It only recognized the last ID code.

I hope this doesn't mean you can't put buttons on the same page for different re-occuring ID's.

See http://www.hostingwave.com/comparetest.htm
for details...

Any ideas what is going on?

Make sure you have the <form></form> tags opening and closing around each button... if you only have the form tag opening once and closing once, it will only count the las button...

BINGO!
See why I love WHT? Who needs anything else?

Thanks Mekhu...

Originally posted by TomD
2. If you have a recurring that is not billing, send me an email with the transaction numbers so I can get it investigated.

I just send it to tom.less than half hour,the recurring bill is ok now.
well done Tom.I hope you can fix the system ASAP.

intra,

Glad it worked :)

Hmm might aswell accept the new tos. Not going to use it untill next year anyway :D

I'm not sure I want 2CheckOut reselling my service. I'm not sure I really want them representing my company!

Same with us. We're switching within the first of the year.

Also 2checkout, when you throw out a big annoucment. Don't do it AFTER you make the changes.

I thought new accounts already had a $49 set up fee? Or are they just restating the fact?

Originally posted by zhaozilong

I just send it to tom.less than half hour,the recurring bill is ok now.
well done Tom.I hope you can fix the system ASAP.

I have the same problem, all my transaction failed :(
Will see if they fix that soon cause I don't know what to tell my customers

Originally posted by neil
I thought new accounts already had a $49 set up fee? Or are they just restating the fact?

I think the $49 set up fee is only for brand new accounts, you don't have to pay it if you already have an account.

Same problem transactions failing, we are moving them to worldpay as we speak. 2co has to get their act together.

Since they are now reselling my goods, are they not then responsible for all applicable taxes? Nice for me, but a horried idea for them.

Chet

Again... the $49 fee is only for NEW accounts, as clerified by 2checkout.com support.

I am just curious, those of you that are having lots of problems - are you large companies? Large volume? I haven't experienced anything to date like I am hearing.

Originally posted by neil
I thought new accounts already had a $49 set up fee? Or are they just restating the fact?

i believe the setup fee was already in their TOS, though don't quote me on that since i don't remember it that well. :p however, if it wasn't, then they're just adding it for whatever reason. but yes, it's only for new accounts.