Hi
i am new in co-location ,I have buy a co-location space(Quarter Rack Space [10U] ) from****company,and i host 4 X1U ackmount servers Now,and i want to host another 5X1U servers but the company siad :

<msg>

it's impossible to put up to
10 x
1U servers as you will need to place the railing kit for the servers or
trays to hold the servers. Estimation, you may put up to 5 x 1U
servers
(without the switch). You may estimate the number of servers that can
fit
into the 10U space from your end, inclusive of space for railing kits /
trays & switch.

</msg>


all my rackmount servers used this case (http://store.compute-aid.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=102&item=RK1U300W-CW&type=store)
Note: aliding Rail's it's not important for this case.

It's a true or Not? :confused:

If you were my colo customer, worst case you could use 7U. Worst case. I say that because a full size, fully loaded case might require a 2 or 3U cantilever shelf to support it. In our cabinets, we use front and back mount 3/4 U shelves to support the load, so you'd actually be able to use at least 9U.

I think your current host if full of crap. 5U usable out of 10U rented? Find a new host.

My 0.02,

Brandon

You should be able to fit no less than 6 or 7. I would try reasoning with your company.

Depending if its a 2 post or 4 post rack they place your servers in I'd say 8 servers in 10u space.. leaving 2u for shelving (1 shelf per 5 servers).

But I agree with the others if their saying just 5u then thats bs, their just putting a shelf under each 1u server to waste space... either that or just trying to take you for a ride

What does the number of posts in a rack have to do with it, sorry, just feeling a tad slow :D

They are taking you for a ride...call them.

Yes I would talk to somoene that is a little more competent. 1U = 1U and no more. A normal colo housing cabinet is 40U and you can fit 40 x 1U servers assuming you have enough power ;-).

If you dont want to discuss with them, have them call me I will set them straight ;-).

Most 40u racks wont hold 40u's, you need space to wiggle some servers out often enough, some amount of space to run cables from front to back (assuming you utilize your space well and racks are snug together), and you also need space at the bottom for power, etc. to come out from the raised flooring, if you dont have raised flooring, wave bye bye to the bottom 6-10u to say the least.

so, if that's the case, porcupine, why should the customer lose 1:2 on each U of rackspace. Why doesn't the colocation facility take this into account and only rent out 30 of the 40 U?

Thats BS - if you're going to be paying for 10U's and they're advertising 10U slots then they had better be able to offer it. They probably don't have any space left....Just a lame excuse:stickout:

Exactly hostkookster

we don't have raised flooring and have no problem putting in close to 40 servers. But yeah you do loose 1U for the power strips, etc. We are actually able to put in more than 60 in a 40U cabinet, but if I told you how I would have to kill you ;-)

Because you have those little 2 servers in a 1u case, or because you mount them front and back? Cabinets suck IMHO as they use a lot more space then racks :eek:, but are good in shared space if you dont have a cage or whatnot i suppose.

Hehhe yeah we stack them back to back. We use cabinets because it lets us grow and not pay for space not being used. 2 servers in a 1U case, is hat possible? heheh

blade servers goose?

Blade servers are a joke, I refuse to build anything under 1.5GHz and not to mention the price!

Originally posted by Goose
Hehhe yeah we stack them back to back. We use cabinets because it lets us grow and not pay for space not being used. 2 servers in a 1U case, is hat possible? heheh

Im not sure if its 2 in a 1u or 4 in a 2u, but i do know i've seen the 4 in a 2u case before :), can't recall where, looked kinda stupid IMHO as its just not something i need i guess

Originally posted by Goose
Blade servers are a joke, I refuse to build anything under 1.5GHz and not to mention the price!

Except there are blades that run faster that and they will save you money if you are in a higly developed area where space is at an upmost premium, aka NYC. But if you live in the middle of no where...

True - acronym boy

We are located in San Francisco, it is just really hard to accept the premium on blades. I have never seen a blade company that ever made sense, especially when your able to build your servers with whatever hardward you specify.

What does the number of posts in a rack have to do with it, sorry, just feeling a tad slow

4 post rack you can drop in a shelf that takes up less than 1U.

2 post rack or telco rails, you have to use a cantilevered shelf, which takes up 2 or 3U at least.

Brandon

If you're using 1u rackmount units, why do you need shelves at all though? :confused:

I'm not sure I'd want any of my servers in a telco rack, that's just cheap. Find a host that has cabinets with f/b mounting rails (4 post). Your 1u case has rack ears front and back, and works great in a full length cabinet. In fact, it's a great case all around, but needs to be mounted at all 4 corners, as it's a full lenght case.

porcupine, not all 1u cases have rear mounting brackets, or they are not long enough etc. Most 1u cases generally will bend if only mounted on the front two ears, ESPICALLY aluminum cases, thats why every 5 or so 1u servers you put a shelf in, which cbtrussell correctly explained. Otherwise your going to end up with bent ears and a rack full of slanted servers that are near impossible to get out.

I myself have no problem using a telco rack as long as its properly shelved.

Originally posted by Goose
We are located in San Francisco, it is just really hard to accept the premium on blades. I have never seen a blade company that ever made sense, especially when your able to build your servers with whatever hardward you specify.

Population density of SF: 16,633 people/sq mile

Population density of Manhatten: 65,000 people/sq mile

1 square foot of office space goes for a lot more here than there.

San Fransico is a quaint little town.

:)

Originally posted by DanielP
porcupine, not all 1u cases have rear mounting brackets, or they are not long enough etc. Most 1u cases generally will bend if only mounted on the front two ears, ESPICALLY aluminum cases, thats why every 5 or so 1u servers you put a shelf in, which cbtrussell correctly explained. Otherwise your going to end up with bent ears and a rack full of slanted servers that are near impossible to get out.

I myself have no problem using a telco rack as long as its properly shelved.

Makes sense i guess, just never seen it happen, ya know what i mean? We use 2u chassis and they're mounted with just 1 set of ears, i sometimes worry, but i look around at the other cages, and everyone else has the same setup and i dont see any severely bent ones, theres one cage at the back with extra long 4u's that make me shudder, but they're like 1.5x the length of anything we use :D.

We are actually able to put in more than 60 in a 40U cabinet, but if I told you how I would have to kill you ;-)I would hate to see the cooling in that place :)

Originally posted by RackMy.com
I would hate to see the cooling in that place :)

liquid N2

why waste space with rack mountable power strips if you can mount them vertically.. unless we're talking about apc switches..

We also have no problem with just mounting the front with 2 screws. At first we were worried, but quickly realized what everyone else does and never looked back.

A little off topic but anyone here know anyone that has excess APC Remote Power Switches?

Thanks!

If you buy 10U you should get 10U. That being said, it is possible but difficult to get 10 one U servers into that space unless they are all the same brand, model, etc and are all perfectly straight.

This being said, most providers give you a certain amount of power with the space. Most data center provide 20 amps of power with a cabinet so if you bought a 1/4 cabinet you would get 5 amps. I don't think you can run 10 server on 5 amps.

Check with your provider to see if power is the issue.

What about switches or routers? Is your provider going to provide you with a connection to each server? Do you need your servers to be able to connect to each other?

We figure we can get about 30-35 1U servers in a cabinet. 30 is more realistic with switches and routers but we have a few with 35. They of course have more than 20amps of power which is an additional cost for us.

those are good questions...10U should be 10U..talk to your provider.

The power thing shouldn't be an issue, either.

A 300 watt power supply usually uses about 180-190 watts, not 300. Providers should give you the power to power an average rack of gear. That equates to 35X180 watts for 1U servers, and 300-400 watts (yeah, big) per 1U for network gear. Raid systems will add 100 watts per U

Your typical 1U server will use between 1-1.5 Amps of power. Most colo places will only give you 20 amps (total) per cab.

Seems like a rip, huh?

CoLo Sales:"Mr customer, we'll give you a full rack for $225 a month!"

CoLo Customer: "Great! But why so cheap?"

CoLo Sales: "Well, we do what the industry calls "oversell" rack space (uses air quotes when saying "oversell")."

Colo Customer: "Hmmm. Does that mean I really can't fit 41 1U servers into my rack?"

CoLo sales: "er, um, well, not really. You CAN put 41 pieces of gear in there, but we really don't expect you to turn on more than 15 at a time".

CoLo customer:"hmmm."

[--to be continued...]

hehe

Well actually I think it comes from the days when servers were 4-5U in size. You could fit about 10-12 servers per cab. 20 Amps was perfect.

Your're probably right about that. Goes over to another current thread of why NOT use towers vs. racks. Lines blurred. Geting dizzy. Threads converging... WATCH OUT!!!:nuke:

Yes colo's are very shrewd and you need to be very careful. They will gouge you on the power if the cabinet is cheap. Also the more you grow with them, they know that they have you! I mean if you need more space and all your equipment is already in there are you going to leave, can you leave? ;-)

And you got to love setup charges!

True True

I dont know about what other sites do, but at Colo4 we allow the customer to have as much power as they can justify. All we ask is they provide some documentation to their power needs. We also give them their current power reading before adding power.

I was surprised that no one mentioned center mounting 1U cases. On some cases you can move the ears to the middle. If you do this you will have no problem mounting 1Us in a rack. Using similar servers was mentioned earlier. That can really help.

In cabinets you choose how well you want to utilize your space. If you dont want 1U power strips you can put them on the side. It is up to you. I would have some concern about front and rear mounting servers. I have heard it talked about but have never seen it done. It would be a wiring nightmare. If you tried to pull a server out you could easily unplug several.

You should also check the height of your cabinet. Some are 40 and others are 48U. If you are making money charging per U, a 48 may be better for you.

Originally posted by pvanmeter
I would have some concern about front and rear mounting servers. I have heard it talked about but have never seen it done. It would be a wiring nightmare. If you tried to pull a server out you could easily unplug several.



This would also be very bad for cooling. Typically rack mounted servers pull air from the front and blow out the back. If you have some facing the other direction, they would be blowing all the air to the middle of the cabinet and I don't think it would cool well.

As Paul mentioned, wiring would also be a NIGHTMARE!

I've seen it done with the half-deep rack servers and it is a very poorly designed system. It makes a big assumption that you have a gasketed floor vent sealed to the bottom of the rack that forces cool air up through the middle of the rack. With a standard rack, there's about 4" of space between the backs of the servers.

Actually all these are irrelevant. Even if the provider can only fit 1U in a full rack, or he has only power for 1 U out of a full rack, it is all not important.

Selling 10U means the customer gets 10U even if he has to use 10 racks to give you that 10U.

If not, this is just another scams. I would read their TOS, Agreements everything carefully and use it against them if needed.

So its not realistic to mount 10 of the original posters cases in 10U of space with front ears only? :(

Afraid not, I use the same case, like they said, you need to either mount it on all 4 corners or use a shelf, myself I use shelves every 5U, others may use the 4 corner mounts.

Originally posted by DanielP
Afraid not, I use the same case, like they said, you need to either mount it on all 4 corners or use a shelf, myself I use shelves every 5U, others may use the 4 corner mounts.

The best ones I have seen that mount on 4 corners are at www.compute-aid.com. Be careful, there are two, and one has a fixed MB backplane and no rear ears, the other does, and they're almost the same price.

Yup, thats who I use for cases, i've got both types of the 1u you speak of :)

I thought most people would use 4 point mounting as it is
in my opinion all thats good enough to hold the servers?

I know that we in our rack at worldcom use 4 point mounting ONLY. And, even though I havent had to try yet I think
I can squeeze quite a few boxes into our 42U rack.