Design in question: http://www.pixelsync.co.uk/nintendonow.gif

Recently, I sold a design via auction, advertising it on here in the "Related Offers and Requests" forum. The hihest bidder was someone who contacted me via AOL, and made the payment. I emailed him the template and told him where to download the fonts for it. A few weeks later I've got a paypal notice saying that I haven't delivered the services I've been paid for. I am now faced with having to give a refund, or fight it out with both the buyer and paypal. I have emailed him two times now since receiving the complaint from paypal (on Friday), the emails are shown below:

Why have you issued a complain notice to Paypal? I have emailed you the PSD of the design, Please reply, I hope this is just a misunderstanding.

Husain Fazel

I sent you an email, and i've still not received a reply.

According to our understanding, I was to email you the PSD of the design, and an HTML copy, which I have done. Later you requested the fonts associated with the design, for which, I gave you a link, to download. In my opinion that constitutes delivery of service, thus fulfilling my obligations to the full. I'm am baffled as to why you've sent a complaint notice to paypal, for an alleged "failure to provide services". Could you please respond to my email, I await your reply. Thank You.

Husain Fazel

I have not received any reply. The person has logged into AIM and not replied to my messages there either. I don't have the time to argue with him or paypal at the moment, and I certainly don't want to start one of those paypal investigations that freeze my account completely, so I will be offering a refund. However I will not be scammed in this manner. This is the first fraudulent customer I have dealt with and this is also the first complaint I have had with paypal. What angers me so much is that I've delivered my side of the bargain, and he can simple deny receiving the goods, and receive a refund.

For that reason only, I'll be offering to anyone who wants them, the PSDs and the html source of the site, with free rights to redistribute and use as needed.

The files can be downloaded from:
www.pagesite.com/nintendonow.zip

The link to the thread in which I advertised the site is:http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84870&highlight=gaming

I don't have the full details of the buyer, but his paypal email address is vcbogan AT aol DOT com, so hopefully this thread will be of help to anyone considering business with him.

Actually Paypal won't do nothing if it's intangible goods. Had a customer do this to me this week as a matter of fact. He ordered hosting, emailed me saying "oops wrong domain name, that one's taken, I'll get you another one in a couple days" I replied that it was no problem just let me know. Few days later I get the Paypal email.

Responded that the customer was buying hosting and gave them the emails, Paypal responds with the issue as Closed:

Dear Gary,

PayPal has concluded our investigation of the following Buyer Complaint:
<snip>
As stated in our User Agreement, PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy only
applies to the shipment of goods, not to disputes about virtual or
intagible goods. Therefore, we cannot take any action. We encourage
you to continue to work directly with the buyer to amicably resolve this
dispute.


So I refunded the man his money and marked the issue as closed. Then he goes ahead and orders hosting with the domain he finally registered the next day :) haha

Just an FYI that may help, though if he charges back the money on his CC assuming he used a CC then I suspect Paypal will take that money at that point...

EXACTLY!

If they make the payment via PAYPAL FUNDS you have a better chance of PayPal's word being the last word!

I had a customer file complaint with PP they closed it! Customer 2 months later files complaint with his CC company and PP (who previously investigated it and closed it) reversed charges.

Good Luck!

Um.

I had a similar situation a few months ago, only in the opposite of what yours is, and I DID get a refund, on virtual goods. I purchased a vBulletin button set from someone I found through vbulletin.org I think, and for a couple of weeks he was constantly saying, "I'll get those buttons to you tomorrow." "I'll get those buttons to you by the end of the week." And I never got them -- only BS excuses. There were actually like 8 different colors for the buttons, and he ended up sending me a couple of colors -- just not the ones that I asked for. I even told him I would file a buyer complaint form if he didn't hand the correct set over by a certain date (over 2 weeks after I purchased them), and he continued to tell me he would get them to me. Filed a complaint with good details, waited 10 days for him to give me my $7 refund (oohhh), and when he didn't, I received this after 10 days:

"Dear Jen Wilson,

PayPal has concluded our investigation of your Buyer Complaint.

------------------------------
Complaint Details
Reimbursement Request Details
------------------------------

Transaction Date: Aug 31, 2002
Transaction Amount: -$7.00
Case Number: PP-002-202-553
Seller's Name: ***
Seller's Email: ***

Our investigation has determined that the seller is at fault, and as a
result we have attempted to recover your funds. $7.00 has been
credited to your account. This is the maximum amount we were able to
recover. Please allow up to 5 days for this adjustment to be
reflected in your account.

We appreciate your business, and regret this experience. To make
sure future transactions proceed smoothly, we suggest reading
these Security Tips:

http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/fraud-tips-buyers-outside


Sincerely,
Complaint Resolution Department"

Maybe they changed that since then, but I got my refund on "virtual" goods, so I dunno what to say. If you have your sent e-mails and message headers you can prove that you e-mailed him the stuff. I think that's how I got my refund -- I still had all my sent and received e-mails, showing that he was indeed saying he would get them to me over a long period of time.

what happened to the zip download? Its giving a 404 :(

Same here :(, but good plan Fazel3 :D

Originally posted by Fazel3
I don't have the full details of the buyer, but his paypal email address is "vcbogan AT aol DOT com", so hopefully this thread will be of help to anyone considering business with him.
This address is that of a banned WHT member: WebHostingCO

Ironically, he asked this in one thread: http://webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84677

Has had other (banned) usernames as well:

BSHbrian - basebogan11@aol.com
http://www.bigsiteofhosting.com
basebogan11@aol.com
AIM - Swat3phReporter
MSN - brianbogan@hotmail.com

brianbogan - vince@bigsiteofhosting.com
http://www.bigsiteofhosting.com
vince@bigsiteofhosting.com
AIM - Swat3phReporter
MSN - brianbogan@hotmail.com

XTStrike handled the issue with this member.

sounds like this dude scam lots of people already.

Your zip file don't work, I can't download anything, your template looks good :)

I don't mind paying you a few bucks, since you got a good design layout, actually you know what, I am thinking of redesign my web site but dunno how to start, maybe can you help me a bit?

Thanks for the info Chicken, maybe sending a link to this thread to paypal might give me a favourable outcome. In any case, since the design is no good to me or any potential buyer, the link for it is here: (I made a mistake with the file name in my first post).

http://www.pagesite.com/nn.zip

Fazel3 is the best :D

I agree :D

lol don't worry Frazel, I will put a link/banner back to your site. :D

Oh, don't worry about that banner. Posting this thread has given me the information I needed to make my case against the buyer and hopefully other people will now be aware of Vincent B. and his fradulent ways.

Just have fun with the template! :)

:bawling: :bawling: Why me?!:bawling: :bawling: Why me?!

He outbid me by $5, I originally wanted this design before the auction... :(

I now have a design I paid $105 for and the one I originally wanted is now being given away for FREE! :(:bawling: :bawling:

Good luck w/ the dispude Fazel

Sorry Steve,

If it's any consolation, I wish I'd sold it to you instead, but you're free to download and use it as you wish ;)

I already have my design ;)

At least something positive has come out of this. I hope you get this sorted out, you may even at the best manage to have his PayPal account closed :)

Thanks to everyone who's helped me out in this thread, the problem has been resolved, I got a similar response to what Dixiesys got from paypal.

PayPal has concluded our investigation of the following Buyer Complaint:

Case ID: PP-005-215-668
Transaction Date: Nov 5, 2002
Transaction Amount: -$40.00
Buyer's Email: vcbogan AT aol DOT com
Buyer's Name: vincent b.

As stated in our User Agreement, PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy only
applies to the shipment of goods, not to disputes about virtual or
intagible goods. Therefore, we cannot take any action. We encourage
you to continue to work directly with the buyer to amicably resolve this
dispute.

Thank you for your cooperation with our investigation.

Thank you,
Lori
Protection Services Department

So PayPal issued the refund or did you, or don't you need to?

Just like to know for future reference.....

Fazel, good job posting that here - cracked me up. :D

I didn't need to give a refund, and paypal didn't make me give out a refund. The person in question tried to scam me out of a design, but ended up losing $40 as i'm sure a large portion of the WHT community has downloaded "Nintendo Now" and are actively using it :)

Hopefully it will discourage him from doing something similar in the future.

how about pasting his email address here Fazel3,

1. it would stop let people know not to do business with that address over paypal

2. I would sure like to send him an email letting him know what a **** he is. :)

And of course. This is what makes communities great. ;)

His paypal address is vcbogan AT aol DOT com and he uses the Swat3phReporter AIM name usually, Chicken provided the following info for him:

BSHbrian - basebogan11@aol.com
http://www.bigsiteofhosting.com
basebogan11@aol.com
AIM - Swat3phReporter
MSN - brianbogan@hotmail.com

brianbogan - vince@bigsiteofhosting.com
http://www.bigsiteofhosting.com
vince@bigsiteofhosting.com
AIM - Swat3phReporter
MSN - brianbogan@hotmail.com

Fazel,

I just wanted to throw up a post... :)

Glad to hear that you got your cash and didn't get screwed. I also wanted to say a BIG thanks, for posting your template. Its excellent.

Much appreciated! In fact, I am going to fool around with it after work and see what I can do with it!

Fazel3 stole my friends :bawling:

Thanks for sharing your excellent design with us Fazel... It is much appreciated!

HeyItsMe

Fazel, any chance of posting where the fonts are?

And I think this is an excellent way to get back at scum like that.

Nice one Fazel,

I was in a similar situation a few months ago and reacted in much the same way. A designer is hard to scam because in a heartbeat we can completely devalue any good that have been stolen and in many cases even profit from it.

This vBulletin skin, http://www.techskins.com/demos

was originally to be a custom design for www.compulounge.com. Unfortunately a guy whose AIM name was "GamersVibe" decided that he wasn't going to pay me the second 50% of the project fee (I am on a 50% up front/50% on completion payment policy). He made all sorts of excuses and I waited a week for him (he already had an early mockup of the site because being the nice trusting fellow I am I told him he could check it out, so he was in a position to screw me (or so he thought).

Needless to say, he missed the dealine I set for payment, so I just further improved the style, expanded it to include a button set and be a full vBulletin skin and then started selling it en-masse. He didn't screw me, he just got a half-finished product for hundreds more than people were paying for a finished version...

The moral of the story? Don't try to screw over savvy designers, because in the end they will just profit from your stupidity and you'll be the only schmuck who paid 5x what everyone else is (or in this case paid for what other are getting for free).

Fazel... man that bites a big wee*** for sure. Sorry the jerk tried to pull one over on you, at least in this case you showed him!

Oh yeah... I did IM him, though he had an away message up... wrote him a book in fact!

Thanks for the freebie Fazel.... :D Sorry you had to deal with the BS though.

Take it easy

Originally posted by Azaloth
...was originally to be a custom design for www.compulounge.com. Unfortunately a guy whose AIM name was "GamersVibe" decided that he wasn't going to pay me...
And not surprisingly, Tim (commonly referred to as 'Timmah') registered under the username compulounge at HHO, with an @compulounge.com email address heh. Someone said recently that although they have rarely seen me get nasty with a member, one of the few times was with Tim (not an exact quote, but..), and that person was probably right. :rolleyes:

Good to know, at least Timmy was the one who got screwed this time. I'm sure it was long overdue...

Great idea Fazel, you seem like a nice guy and it's just bad to see you have to deal with crap from people like that... But I like your idea of revenge, good going! :D

That guy was Timmy? Are you sure? Or was that sarcasm...
Also, I just went to the link that a mod posted on the first page of this thread, it looks like he wanted to find out how to get his money back "if people run off on him"... Obviously so he could rip people off... I hope you get justice Fazel.

Too bad what happened, it's a really nice design :)

Hello,

Thanks for the comments. I was surprised to see this thread again it's been several months since it was originally posted. Basically Vincent B. (or whatever he calls himself) lost the exclusive ownership of the design with my post here and after reviewing the thread PayPal asked me to come to an amicable deal with him.

Since Vincent didn't reply to my messages through email and instant messenger, I decided not to offer him a refund. If he'd been unhappy with the goods I'd have gladly refunded him. However his only aim was to 'get something for nothing' and I don't think he deserved recompensation, i'm sure he wouldn't have done the same for me if PayPal had ruled the other way.

On a lasting note, i'm not sure what fonts were used in the design, I will check at a later time and update that zip package ;)

Husain Fazel

Cool :P Glad you got *some* compensation (sort of).

Sweet Justice <3 Fazel3