Are they kind of like Cogentco? Anyone have any experience with them?

Williams (wcg.net) now known as WilTel is/was part of Williams Energy.

WCG owns its own nationwide fiber network. They claim it is the largest and most advanced fiber optic network in North America. Unfortunately, no one is using it. There is a severe glutt of long haul fiber (Qwest, Level(3), and Broadwing (formerly IXC) also built nex-gen fiber networks that are under-utilized).

WCG just emerged from bankrupcty and is trying to gain as much market share as possible by selling at dirt cheap prices over their own OC-48 network. The only problem with them is that they do not have sufficient peering in place - same as Cogent.

FYI, Cogent's long haul routes run on WilTel fiber. They leased a single strand from Williams and contracted with MFN for local transit to build their network. MFN/Abovenet is currently in bankruptcy.

Williams (WilTel) also built the original MCI (LDDS) network wich now belongs to Worldcom. WCG used old gas/oil pipelines owned by the parent company to build the fiber networks.

So basically Williams is sitting on a buttload of potentially great bandwidth.. but nobody needs it / wants it.

Sounds like the very same story some Cable & Wireless rep was feeding me about their IP network the other month... ("We focused on other areas too long, and now we realized we have this great IP network, and we're nowhere near capacity!")...

Isn't every fiber network overbuilt and under utilized at this point? I blame it all on worldcom. ;)

their peering is definitely not the best ...
don't know anything about the bandwidth though.

greets,

Originally posted by Shannon
I blame it all on worldcom. ;)

I'd blame it pretty much on the overall telecom market. It's hurting badly right now. Even before WorldCom's scandal hit the headlines, the telecom industry wasn't doing to well.

Yes, maybe WorldCom is part of the reason why the industry is in such bad shape, but it's not entirely their fault...;)

Actually, I know Verio peers with Williams/WilTel in a lot of places. They are also working like a 12 year old hearing his mom pull up while his pants are down to get peering agreements with a lot of people. They are acting a lot like PSInet used to and will peer with just about anyone.

No one company or person is to blame for the current state.

Everyone in this business expected the insane growth rate to continue. Unfortunately, this isn't Field of Dreams. They all built it but nobody came. ;)

WorldCom didn't agressively build. They bought existing networks and leased fiber from providers like Qwest and Global Crossing.

Even with a global glutt companies are still dumping large amounts of fiber into the ocean.

How can companies like WCOM, Qwest, Level (3), and Global Crossing make money if new providers like Cogent can lease strands dirt cheap and create a network almost over night at a mere fraction of what those networks cost to build?

FYI, Verio/NTT and C&W both lease long haul fiber from Qwest in the US. Qwest built a 18,500 mile fiber optic network using the "rights of way" that owner Philip Anschutz obtained when he controlled Southern Pacific Railroad.

Too bad Level (3), Wiltel, Broadwing, Enron, and a few others had the same idea.

Too much long haul capacity and no cheap local transit solutions coupled with all those "dot bombs" makes for hard times.

Yeah, local loop is pretty much worthless is most cities. Here in DC it's worse then most places. You have to get permits to put anything in the ground and getting those permits is like pulling teeth out of a monkeys head without knocking the little flucker out first.

Long haul fiber is basically worthless because you can lease a couple strands for pennies compaired to what it took to put it there. It's that last mile that you pay out the nose for in most places. I know a couple companies that opened data centers along major fiber bundles, but no where near cities so they could get the last mile/local loop put in place for a semi-reasonable amount of money.

You will be surprised at how many people can't get dsl or cable where they live. Still most people are on AOL dial up and at that rate the bandwidth will not get used up for a long time. Maybe when wireless becomes cheap with long distance then things will get better.

Then I hear about people just driving by a place with wireless access and get conneted without paying. Don't you have to register your mac address or something to get access to the wireless node? At least that's how my dsl works.

http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1105-964479.html

Some places like Starbucks you just need a compatable wireless card. It's sad but true. Too bad you can't host servers off a wireless connection. It's almost crazy enough a selling point to get clients.

Starbucks is going to start charging for access. From what I read it isn't going to be cheap either.

Over-priced wireless internet access to go with their over-priced coffee.

How are they going to charge if all you need is a compatible wireless card? What if you just stay in your car and surf?

They'll probably go to a service where you have to sign up on a webpage served out at the shop to get access.

is there a bandwidth forum? ala WHT, but, where people just discuss bandwidth providers/pricing/performance, etc?

interesting thought as an addition to WHT.

Hello,

You *can* get williams bandwidth for around cogent pricing based upon 100mbps+ prepaid :)

Originally posted by skylab
is there a bandwidth forum? ala WHT, but, where people just discuss bandwidth providers/pricing/performance, etc?

interesting thought as an addition to WHT.
agree.

well there are some related mailing-lists. i once subscribed there, but because of too many sales questions etc. i opted-out again ... but you can browse through the archive here:
http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/archives/
it's the ISP-Bandwidth-List

greets,

We are getting a T3 to Williams installed right now, so I'll know in a week or two how the quality compares. Our other connection is the Yipes gigabit ring here in the SF Bay Area, which connects to Level 3 and Genuity and seems good so far.

Williams is more expensive than Cogent for us, though one can purchase smaller initial amounts (45Mbps as opposed to 100).

Williams (or should I say WilTel) seems to have good overseas connections but we'll see what the network says.

Best,
David

Williams connects to LINX and various other public peering organisations. :)

When you say close to Cogent, how close? 5K per month for 100 mbps? That's what I heard it's going for.

Originally posted by ClusterMania
When you say close to Cogent, how close? 5K per month for 100 mbps? That's what I heard it's going for.

Closer :) But it all depends on your negotiation-abilities or as others may say the William's rep's ability to screw you over :)

wow, so damn low?
but for peering ... as said, their peering isn't very good, especially the one at LINX ... it's often heavily overloaded in the evening.

greets,

does anyone have some williams IPs to trace?

Originally posted by Gernot


Closer :) But it all depends on your negotiation-abilities or as others may say the William's rep's ability to screw you over :)


Problem is finding a good rep. Of course if you ask to a a invoice of the great deal they say they got, they will give some reason to not show it.

Originally posted by skylab
does anyone have some williams IPs to trace?

www.williamscommunications.com

www.prioritycolocation.com i think their main bw is also williams. maybe you'll be able to catch www.dv2.com on williams too ;)

greets,