Hello,

A client has been suspended for using an illegally licensed (nulled) script.
The client refuses to pay our account unsuspension fee ($25), and as far as I'm aware, has not and will not legally license the script.

The client is requesting a full account backup.
I am concerned in regards to my obligation and legality of redistributing this nulled script in an account backup.

What would you do in this situation?

Hi Victor,

If they are his files and he wants to take them and do whatever he likes with them - I very much doubt that it is your responsibility. If you have taken the site down and you are no longer hosting the files then I would think you have done as much as you can.

Your other option is to give him the backup of the site minus the nulled script.

Regards,

Jacob

What does your TOS say about illegal activities and content?

Below are lines taken from the terms of service which I deem applicable to the present situation.

You agree not use the system to:
• Upload, post, email or otherwise transmit any content that you do not have a right to transmit under any law or under contractual or fiduciary relationships;
• Upload, post, email or otherwise transmit any content that infringes any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other proprietary rights of any party;

You further agree that we may demand at any time proof of any intellectual property ownership or licensing, as the case may be, to ensure your compliance with this section.
Additionally, X shall have the right to remove any content that violates the TOS or is otherwise objectionable.

You also may be subject to additional terms and conditions that may apply when you use affiliate services, third-party content or third-party software.

The TOS and the relationship between you and X shall be governed by the laws of the United States of America without regard to its conflict of law provisions.
You and X agree to submit to the personal and exclusive jurisdiction of the courts located in the United States of America.

I am not a lawyer or legal expert at all, but I THINK that the files that are his(im not talking about the scripts) he may have a right too.
My suggestion would be to zip up his files(again not the unlicensed scripts), give him a link and a day to download them. But in the end I really dont think he would do any legal action, so I think it really comes down to what you want to do.

Maybe try to contact owner of the script and ask him about this? So you can give a client his full backup but also give a script owner some clients credentials, if they both are fine with it.

Maybe try to contact owner of the script and ask him about this? So you can give a client his full backup but also give a script owner some clients credentials, if they both are fine with it.

I would give him everything but the nulled scripts and send him packing.

I would say you violated our TOS and are S.O.L.

You agree not use the system to:
• Upload, post, email or otherwise transmit any content that you do not have a right to transmit under any law or under contractual or fiduciary relationships;
• Upload, post, email or otherwise transmit any content that infringes any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other proprietary rights of any party;

You further agree that we may demand at any time proof of any intellectual property ownership or licensing, as the case may be, to ensure your compliance with this section.
Additionally, X shall have the right to remove any content that violates the TOS or is otherwise objectionable.

You also may be subject to additional terms and conditions that may apply when you use affiliate services, third-party content or third-party software.

The TOS and the relationship between you and X shall be governed by the laws of the United States of America without regard to its conflict of law provisions.
You and X agree to submit to the personal and exclusive jurisdiction of the courts located in the United States of America.

Remove to me means remove. I think it would be good business practice to allow him to retrieve a backup, but not the nulled script unless he can prove that he's received a license to use it.

If it's legitimate, he can easily provide you with a key.

Would you give him back his child pornography images and videos if he had any? Same thing really.

I would certainly not give him the nulled script back. He can get it again from where he originally downloaded it anyway. If he doesn't like it, I'd love to see him sue and tell the whole story in front of a judge. ;)

I would not give him the files back simply because they were nulled scripts.
Unless your client can prove ownership of the files. The best thing is to point your client to your tos.

But, wait a minute, are you saying if he paid $25, his account will be unsuspended and he will get his file back? hmmm...

I would not give him the files back simply because they were nulled scripts.
Unless your client can prove ownership of the files. The best thing is to point your client to your tos.

But, wait a minute, are you saying if he paid $25, his account will be unsuspended and he will get his file back? hmmm...

I would have thought he would re-activate the account and delete the nulled scripts. Don't think he would allow them to carry on breaking the T.O.S just because they paid $25 ;)

Bret

Dont reply to his emails :) you dont have to give anything back, let him take legal action to get his nulled scripts back! send him an email saying you violated our TOS and to jog on!

This is a business, and he owes you money. If he wants a backup, tell him to pay the $25 fee then give him everything except for the script (and the database for the script).

This is a business, and he owes you money. If he wants a backup, tell him to pay the $25 fee then give him everything except for the script (and the database for the script).

That is exactly what, I will do if I was in this situation..

This is a business, and he owes you money. If he wants a backup, tell him to pay the $25 fee then give him everything except for the script (and the database for the script). Sounds reasonable to me. Of course, I don't see that you owe him anything.

I'd probably give him the database to the script too, if your cPanel license expires all the websites created with it aren't suddenly not your property any more... it's his data, just because he used pirated software to create it doesn't make it any less his, and I don't think giving him the database only would constitute you aiding in infringement (which is realistically the only issue you're worried about). For that reason you might consider giving him any custom templates back as well.

You have shaky ground to not give him backups at all, and you could have your legal people put in your ToS that folks who break the ToS are ineligible to receive copies of their website once suspended.

It's a bit of a minefield though, because the kinds of sasquatches who don't keep backups of their "important data" and wind up getting suspended are the exact kinds of folks who will trash you all over every forum they can possibly find if you don't give them their "important data". Avoiding that trashing is worth waiving an "un-suspension fee" and just handing over the non-infringing data in my humble opinion.

So yeah, I'd give him everything you can possibly give him without constituting infringement and send him on his way.

How about reporting him to the script developer?

Thank you all for your suggestions!
I have decided to retain the script and it's associated database.

@fwaggle: While I understand what you're trying to get at, a license expiration is very different from an illegal violation of the terms of service.
If a client of mine is suspended for not renewing his/her term, by all means I provide a backup free of charge.

The script files are not owned by the client, so I wouldn't give them back to him. The database scheme is not owned by him either, so I wouldn't give it back.

But the data in the DB can be considered his, and what I would do is to create a DB backup from phpMyAdmin without the DB structure, but with the DB data. This can be set in phpMyAdmin.

But the data in the DB can be considered his, and what I would do is to create a DB backup from phpMyAdmin without the DB structure, but with the DB data. This can be set in phpMyAdmin.

That's a great idea. Thank you Harzem.

But the data in the DB can be considered his, and what I would do is to create a DB backup from phpMyAdmin without the DB structure, but with the DB data. This can be set in phpMyAdmin.

Yup, this is more or less what I was getting at - you can give him enough to get his site going again (whether it's legitimate or not at the new host isn't your problem), without contributing to infringement.

Sure you can stick to your guns and say "no, you abused the ToS and are not entitled to a backup" but he'll trash you all over WHT and any other forum that'll listen and to me, even though you'd likely "win" in the thread(s) once you point out he was abusive, anyone doing a quick search is still going to see "[company] sucks, unfair practices" in the subject of threads.

I think you're better off spending 2 minutes giving them a neutered backup that's data-only, than spending a combined 20 or 30 minutes explaining yourself in some thread because he leaves out all the juicy details.

Victor: Okay as far as analogies go, look at it this way. I start a development shop without a budget, and we pirate visual studio. We sell an app or two. Simply because we pirated visual studio, doesn't mean we lose the copyright to the code we produced with it... does it?

(Though with the way IP lobbyists are, it wouldn't surprise me if this were law in the United States)

I prefer not to fight with unreasonable people so I would just give him the backup without the scripts and call it a day. I think it is better to spend my time on good customers where it will make a difference in my business so I would want to be done with this client or former client as quickly as possible.

Im not toally sure but a "Nulled" script isnt "Warez" and therfore not illegal in all parts of the world dependant upon the legal system you follow its your call on the files.

I wouldnt however give a customer his files back with nulled scripts on, Id demand they pay the reactivation fee, And give them 48 Hours to remove the files, That way the customer gets his files back and you havn't distributed any illegal content. (And your $25 Up).

Im not toally sure but a "Nulled" script isnt "Warez" and therfore not illegal in all parts of the world dependant upon the legal system you follow its your call on the files.

I'm curious as to your rationalization behind this. Nulled is basically another name for "cracked" software, as it pertains to web-based software. It's warez (pirated software) if you didn't pay for it, and if you paid for it why would you null it?