Can someone perhaps tell me where I am going wrong because I just don't get it.

The goal of any business is to make money, Right?

To make money you must get clients and let them pay you, Right?

With that in mind WHY on earth do any company INSIST that such client MUST join other company (Paypal) otherwise they don't want this client or his money????

Are such companies really unable to accept any other PAYMENTS except from mommey paypal and in fact defend mommy so hard that they are even willing to go so far as to make ENEMIES such as paypalsucks.com for themselves in their irrational strive to reject PAYMENTs from ANY non-paypal member?

One such company is for example www.incansoft.com that not only ignored emails asking for alternative payment method so that I can PAY them but when I gave up and was being forced to use the hated Paypal the $14.96 was actually $19.95.

After complaining about that the response was very irrational and defies all business logic. (See the two points above)

Hmm...so you knowingly paid $19.95, expecting to have paid $14.96 and rather than simply take a moment out to email us and ask the question, you accuse us of fraud? Fine, as per our terms of use, you're welcome to bring your complaint to the court system in the Prefecture of Kozani, Greece.

Meanwhile, we have refunded your purchase entirely and will state emphatically that we do not want you as a customer. Your adversarial nature and your insistance at trying to force us to run our business the way you want it to be run is ludicrous.

You're fired.

Mike


With above in mind I want to repeat my question.

WHAT is so sacred, so holy and dear mommey about Paypal that a company like Incansoft defeat the whole reason for their business existence by NOT wanting any money from non-paypal members and in fact defend Paypal so heavily that they make enemies themselves in their strive to defend Paypal?

If the merchant has a business PayPal acct, there is no reason why you have to open a PayPal acct. You can pay with a credit card etcetera.

There are both good and bad points about PayPal from both sides of the fence (buyer/merchant), yet it remains a very good primary and/or add-on method of receiving payments.

There are many reasons, and I haven't really seen much indication of customers being unwilling to pay via Paypal.

With my own company, Paypal is the only option on our order form. It's worked well for years. For some customers in the UK, we do offer alternatives, but as a proportion very few of our customers take us up on that.

Another company I work for (software and hosting), we've used a mixture of Paypal, 2checkout and our own merchant account with CDG. We've always had the best results with Paypal, including lower rates of fraudulent/disputed transactions than with any other payment method. We're back to offering only Paypal now, but, we've kept our merchant account just in case. Despite thousands of customers, I can only recall a couple of occasions where people have asked for alternatives, and our statistics don't show any more (or less) people bailing at checkout with only paypal there.

Finally, if you're doing a fair bit of volume, the processing fees on Paypal get lower to the extent that they can beat our merchant account for some transactions.

As a customer, I prefer to pay with Paypal, especially for recurring transactions - if I hand over my CC, they choose what and when to bill. With Paypal, I'm in control, and I can cancel payments at any time.

As tcstatic said as well, you don't have to signup if its not a recurring transaction. The link isn't very obvious, but, it is there.

I offer PayPal as an option, but I would say fewer than 5% actually use it. Most prefer to pay directly with a credit card. Then again, my target market is a little different than most hosts.

I see a 50/50 split between paypal vs credit card payments.

I prefer paypal for my website design offers as Im doing business under a 1099 it is very hard to get a merchant account setup without proper business credentials. Paypal also does not charge a fee for chargebacks for when customers decide to contact the merchant account instead of the merchant for issues. I have seen companies lose money because customers fail to contact them or read their terms of service with both the merchant and credit card company. The downside of paypal is they do not provide ip addresses that was used to place the transaction so I've had to do that in my order forms to prevent fraud further.

Plus, paypal works with most systems (ecoms). Paying with paypal doesn't mean you need paypal to pay for your hosting. Paypal allows you to pay with a credit card or checks without signing up with them.

As a customer, I prefer to pay through paypal, especially with any recurring/subscription service.

This is because I can simply cancel the subscription at any time, and I don't have to worry about the provider "accidently" charging me again, or worse ...having my credit card information stored unencrypted in the providers database.

Don't think that could ever happen? haha. That's exactly what iNet/webhostingtalk.com did, and I'm pretty sure many of their customers wish they had paid with PayPal instead of giving their cc info directly to them.

....

From a merchant side of the coin... I am very careful about using PayPal. I never keep more then $1k in my account, because I've heard way to many stories about accounts being locked/suspended for various reasons..

I accept paypal as a "necessary evil", because many customers request it as a payment method.

I hope that helps to explain the good and bad about PayPal.

Personally, I think many company's who accept *only* paypal do so because they are either new, or they just don't have the business to warrant getting a merchant account. But I also know many (including one of my own companies, which is not hosting related) accept only paypal because... it's just easier. The trick is to never keep too much money in your account, and have the associated bank account used ONLY for that purpose (and transfer money elsewhere as soon as it arrives.

im not sure why u even said or askd that
paypal can save u alot of problems if u dont have alot of money to start with and also alot of ppl trust paypal so that makes it alot easier

Paypal are annoying as they take commission however most people will already have paypal therefore it is an advantage for them, it saves them giving the merchant access to credit card details and gives them better control. Also most companies will allow use of credit card, paypal and others.

Paypal are annoying as they take commission however most people will already have paypal therefore it is an advantage for them, it saves them giving the merchant access to credit card details and gives them better control. Also most companies will allow use of credit card, paypal and others.

If you can show me a merchant account which doesn't take commission, that would be great ;) Paypal's rates aren't really that bad, especially if you qualify for their volume rates.

Many potential customers see a merchant account as a sign of an established business.

Maybe the reason is simply that you're an arrogant, egotistical ass that we do not want as our customer? Hmmm...

Just because you've got an issue with PayPal has no bearing on how we choose to run an incredible successful business, one that's been online for years and used PayPal without difficulty.

As per your email threat regarding the posting of our corporate site, we encourage you to do so...all advertising is a good thing :)

As you've no doubt already discerned from people you've emailed about Incansoft and posting to forums like this one, you're simply demonstrating what an incredible idiot you are. And you presume to offer business advice to others?

So far I know of at least one person you contacted who has also fired you as a customer, other forums are deleting your threads because you clearly have no idea as to what you are talking about.

We've done done well over $1 Million dollars in sales via PayPal, flawlessly and without problems. Given that, we have no reason to change our business model because you are the only person to ever complain about it.

Your attempts to bully us into not using PayPal, your pointless threats against us have no bearing on ignoring you. We fired you because you're a complete ass....

Err... welcome to webhostingtalk.com. Nice first post..

.. although it's.. um... a little aggressive?

You might want to calm down a little, and while I understand that some customers seem to push all the wrong buttons... it really doesn't make you look very good to post such a response on a public forum.

We all have crappy customers, and many of us have fired those customers for similar reasons as yours. However, jumping off the deep end and publicly calling your ex-customer names (even if you feel he deserves it!) really does not serve any useful purpose. It just makes you look bad.

Just my 2 cents. :)

Cheers!

Perhaps not the best first post to WHT, but, I think from both the OP and hosts posts there is obviously quite a bit that's happened before this was taken to WHT, so as is often the case, we're only seeing a very narrow (and bad!) view.

Mickalacki - congratulations on having a successful business, I'm glad you've found something that works for you :) It is impossible to make everyone happy (no matter how hard we try).

Paypal are annoying as they take commission however most people will already have paypal therefore it is an advantage for them, it saves them giving the merchant access to credit card details and gives them better control. Also most companies will allow use of credit card, paypal and others.


How exactly do you expect them to get paid?

Paypal is a dream for clients as they¡re greatly favored in case there's any problem. If you're a merchant and sell tangible goods, you better ship with a tracking code and make 2 fotocopies of the shipping ticket plus one photo of you leaving the package at the post-office and then pray that you have sold to an honest person 'cause if he opens a dispute thru paypal, you can surely start saying both your money and your merchandise bye bye. As you can imagine the client's dream can be the merchant's nightmare. Paypal is the payment method most used by small and big scammers worldwide.

I have heard that moneybookers takes better care of merchants. Does anyone have an account with them and use it regularly?

Paypal take their commission from the merchant not the customer (same as the CC companies).

I see no reason why the customer in this case says he got charged more because he used paypal.

And as far as disputes go, paypal almost always side with the seller with non-tangible goods, which is good for web hosts.

PayPal offers a "Love, Hate" relationship with sellers.

-They provide a easy way for cusomers to pay you.

-Sadly they have a bad record when it comes to chargebacks.

Paypal are annoying as they take commission however most people will already have paypal therefore it is an advantage for them, it saves them giving the merchant access to credit card details and gives them better control. Also most companies will allow use of credit card, paypal and others.

yea,paypal safe

Im guessing the $14.95 he saw was a 1 or 2 year price with $19.95 being a month by month price.

I also never get why hosts "fire" there clients, they dont work for you, you work for them, they pay your wages.

You can resign from working for them but you cant fire what is essentially your employer.

We've done done well over $1 Million dollars in sales via PayPal

We fired you because you're a complete ass....
Count me astonished that you've done a million dollars in business with this kind of utterly unprofessional attitude.

Isnt there a problem thats just like paypal and donesnt charge a fee... How did it get so big??? How did ebay get so big.??

Count me astonished that you've done a million dollars in business with this kind of utterly unprofessional attitude.

Maybe that's the key of running a multi-million business ;)

</sarcasm>

IMHO both the client and provider are at fault for having a short fuse, and should take anger management classes ;)

IMHO both the client and provider are at fault for having a short fuse, and should take anger management classes ;)

... and hug each other afterwards. ;)

I think OP misunderstands how Paypal works (though a bit vague, a couple of his posts seem to suggest he thinks he was charged extra because of Paypal), and I think the host blew it with him for no decent reason.

Many potential customers see a merchant account as a sign of an established business.
I would hope so - with the process you have to go through. The last application I did for a merchant account consisted of a total of 32 pages worth of applications and documentation.
Paypal are annoying as they take commission however most people will already have paypal therefore it is an advantage for them, it saves them giving the merchant access to credit card details and gives them better control. Also most companies will allow use of credit card, paypal and others.
Lol. Wow. That statement is just incredibly badly worded. You honestly expect PayPal to let you accept money free? I have a REAL merchant account (i.e. I collect credit card info, I charge my own customers, my business name appears on statements, etc) and I still pay a "commission". It's a cost of doing business (and completely tax deductible at that).

Most people have paypal accounts online now, paypal is easy to integrate and is trusted. Its that simple really.

I would say a lot of people have PayPal, but not everyone. There are also a lot of people who have had their paypal accounts frozen, or who just don't see the point in getting a PayPal account. Only about 15% of my customers pay using PayPal. The rest prefer to use a credit card or bank account.

If PayPal is the only solution you offer, you are losing clients.

If PayPal is the only solution you offer, you are losing clients. Of course the more options you have for making payments, the better your conversion ratio will be. Unfortunately, a lot of small businesses don't have the financial resources to be PCI compliant - and PayPal gives them the opportunity to compete.

....... a lot of small businesses don't have the financial resources to be PCI compliant - and PayPal gives them the opportunity to compete.

To be fully PCI compliant is not cheap, I agree that PayPal does give the small business owner a chance to complete.

-Sadly they have a bad record when it comes to chargebacks.
For a web host, paypal has no "bad record" when it comes to chargebacks. All you need to tell paypal is that this is not a product, but a service, and the chargeback is instantly solved on your side.

yea,paypal safe
Paypal is, in fact, quite safe. They err on the safe side quite heavily. I've had them wake me up in the morning with a phone call saying that there were suspicious transactions, just to be 'safe'. I've had them suspend my account, just to be 'safe', because of more suspicious transactions. All this was cleared up almost instantly. Paypal is most definitely safe.



You can resign from working for them but you cant fire what is essentially your employer.
Exactly. In this case, it's not the customer who got fired, but the developer.


If PayPal is the only solution you offer, you are losing clients.
That's so much of a mis-statement any more it's not even funny. Paypal can handle EVERYTHING, including cc transactions for non clients, so you're NOT losing clients because of paypal being the only solution any more.

Alternatively, if you DON'T offer paypal, you ARE losing clients, because paypal is the largest and most trusted provider in the world. If I'm doing business with you as a customer for the first time, I don't trust you, but I'll trust paypal in a heartbeat.

To be fully PCI compliant is not cheap
Actually, to be fully PCI compliant isn't that expensive at all. All you really need are two servers (one connected via VPN for SQL/CARD data, and one connected to the interweb itself), proper firewalls, and a quarterly scan from someone such as mcaffee.

We use both a Merchant Account and PayPal. For a while we also included google check out, but this went out the window (More people prefer paypal)
You do not have to be a member of PayPal to pay through PayPal.
A while ago we did have a problem but Paypal solved it rather quickly. (There was an issue with our social security number and they fixed the problem faster then the government. Seems some how we were declared legally dead, and even presenting physically to the staff in the ss office did not convince them for a few months that we were indeed alive and not a walking zombie) Took one phone call to PayPal and they agreed that we were alive and well.

The merchant account that we use is very economical and client oriented. If there is a way to make things easier for you they will find it.

This thread is such a typical example of an overly-excited customer and an inexperienced (and overreacting) business owner butting heads.

OP, take a breath and contact your host to resolve the issue before posting an inflammatory thread in a public forum. Be civil and ask for resolution. Simple. It should usually work out OK for you.

Host, wow. You definitely need some anger management classes, as well as a few BASIC lessons in business decorum. You could have handled the issue with such a better response that would end up making you actually look GOOD in this ordeal. Instead, you took the low road and utterly embarrassed yourself as a business owner. Tsk, tsk.

I can't help but wonder the ages of the OP and the host...

Vito

yea ust pay through credit card and money goes to sellers account

I would say a lot of people have PayPal, but not everyone. There are also a lot of people who have had their paypal accounts frozen, or who just don't see the point in getting a PayPal account. Only about 15% of my customers pay using PayPal. The rest prefer to use a credit card or bank account.

If PayPal is the only solution you offer, you are losing clients.

This is not the case where a *business* paypal account is being used. The customer is completely free to pay directly by credit card without signing up for a paypal account. Of course web 2.0 zippies don't spend an awful lot of time actually reading the instructions before clicking on buttons.

Also, with Paypal's API now....