Hi there,

I purchased a dedicated server from WebReseller on the 9th June, 2002. Setup was advertised as $99.95 on the site and order form, however they eventually invoiced and charged me for $149.95.

I sent them an e-mail and Leslie replied:
"Plan was changed on site and order center, but not billing, you will be refunded $49.95 immediately."
(me expects refund shortly :) )

I then cancelled my dedicated server about two weeks later on the 19th June, I sent Leslie another e-mail asking about the credit.
"There was a $50.00 credit on your account that we will just refund instead now. " (hmm... what happened to immediately???)

However no refund ever materialized and as the last invoice shows they still owe me $50.
08/11/02 Balance Forward -50.00
(and yet again... as of 9th September, some two months later after refund was promised)

I have e-mailed both leslie@ and support@ twice over the past month via e-mail. In neither case did I receive a reply, not even an acknowledgement.

Just wondering what to do, should I just try to chargeback the full amount? I realise it's only $50.00 but failed promises and still no refund or even communication makes me feel hmm.. robbed?.

I have been waiting since April for a refund so good luck, if you decide to wait be warned they like to just ignore you and pretend it never happened.

I think that after 6 months you can't do a charge back. Or something like that. Not sure myself, but I would do it sooner then later.

:puke:

I had the same problem but with webhosting last year, it may not be a large amount of money but its the principal of the matter, i'd charge back today if i were you.

I agree with Speckz, after a while, it will be hard to do a chargeback. If you call your credit card company and explain the situation, provided you have full documentation of the stated expected refund, you should win this case. There is no need for a consumer to wait more than 30 weeks for a refund.

Do a chargeback, but don't get greedy. Just go for the $50 they owe you as you might loose the case for the full amount.

yea be honest :) being honest has got me outta stuff (like tickets, cops etc..) more than lieing so just do whats right ;)

I would have given them 2 weeks tops for the "immediate" refund before I initiated a chargeback. Not just because of the 3 month burn out period, but because paper often gets "lost" through our bank, and we usually have to file things twice. Don't get me wrong. I think chargebacks are a last resort, but in this case, it doesn't look like you have any other options at all.

Chargeback. The cc companies will protect you.

Yeah I got a special from them from these boards.. advertised half price setup.. they charged me full price and I never ever have hada reply from leslie - They seem to ignore you alright.

1 solution, charge back :D

What do I have to do with this.

The $49 would be extremely nice to have back.. it has cost them much more than that in lost business by not issuing that refund up to press.. think I'll get another server there? :rolleyes:

What do I have to do with this?


I presume you have quit/left/moved-on by that above statement. Either that or it seems to me that WebResellers' departments are disconnected/isolated and/or do not effect one another?

Please clarify... Confused. :rolleyes:

I'd call them.

With Webreseller's good reputation and previous participation in this forum, I would have thought they would have responded. Matt - even with teh time difference and all, I'd suggest one last phone call. I am sure they want to work it out and do the right thing.

I have been using web reseller for a while and they have been good. I would email robert the owner, I am sure he will fix it for you.

We had the exact same thing happen a couple of times. Took us a while to get the credits we were owed, but we did get them and an apology for the delay.

I suggest emailing Leslie in accounts again and CCing it to Rob as well.

Best of luck
Scott

actually the limit is 60 days from the date of charge, not 6 months (well every card i have, debits and cards....)

60 days is based on the "Truth In Lending" law You have 60 days from the original STATEMENT date not charge date. However most CC companies will go longer than 60 days. as they are usually on your side. BTW there are other provisions of the TIL law that could stop your legal right to dispute a charge. For example, over 100 miles from home, amount less than $50, or (get this) if you've paid the amount already! If you've paid your CC bill off already, you don't have legal protection under the TIL law. But I don't know of a CC company that would deny it if you're in good standing with them.

This person in particular was sent a refund check becuase he had negative credit balance.... And Monte, we are not going to start with you again, you know it was taken care of and verified...

Originally posted by webreseller
This person in particular was sent a refund check becuase he had negative credit balance.... And Monte, we are not going to start with you again, you know it was taken care of and verified...

B** S***

It was never taken care of and never verified even tho I have asked you over and over again to send me anything that shows the refund was issued, you have repeatable ignored my every request for verification. A quick search by anyone that cares will show that in every thread we have discussed this in I have pleaded with you to send me ANYTHING showing the refund was issued and offering to make a public apology if I am wrong. Everytime you have have said it is taken care of matter closed you will not discuss it.

I have come to grips with the fact that I will never get that verification or the refund but I will not forget nor will I just go away. Not as long as you lie about it and refuse to aknowledge it.

Originally posted by JBIZ718
What do I have to do with this.

I thought you worked for them in sales?

This person in particular was sent a refund check becuase he had negative credit balance.

I guess we'll have to wait and see on the above because I have not received anything yet, or no e-mail stating the above.

Giving out client info? yeesh :eek:

Originally posted by webreseller
This person in particular was sent a refund check becuase he had negative credit balance.... And Monte, we are not going to start with you again, you know it was taken care of and verified...

Call your card company immediately ... they may only allow chargebacks 30 days.

Mine is 60, and I'm charging back Webreseller.net on two counts, one of which is a credit they will never give.

Leslie doesn't even read the email you send ... she'll just spew off some cut-n-paste message like "you've been told we are looking into it" or "the credit is being discussed" (for MONTHS).

I even got the runaround after the OWNER agreed in an email to a specific credit, and that was only after threats of lawsuits. After pointing this out to Leslie OVER and OVER, she told me I'd be credited in 10 days -- over two weeks ago, and after screwing up even closing my account.

It's reassuring to know I'm not the only one to be screwed.

Ken,

I think you need to make sure you get all your fact straight. I will not say the personal information through this forum, however, I will say that we will do what we agreed to do for you and that is provide you a $75.00 credit on your card.

I would advise you to contact Leslie becuase she has been trying too contact you about where it should go....

Also, you were never "screwed" and you know it. You asked to have something done, we did it, you were pre-warned of the possible problems, you accepted it....

Have a great day :)
WEBRESELLER

Leslie "trying to contact me"???

How many times have I told you to credit it to my card?

What? You LOST that information just after billing me for a month's service a few days ago?

Since you obviously don't want to admit you've been told to fix this over and over, and exactly how, shall I tell you REALLY where to put it?

Shall I post all the emails requesting a credit and asking you how to reimburse me?

As mentioned AGAIN, Leslie has been trying to get in touch with you to find out what card to refund it to or verify an address to send a check..

As I told you AGAIN, how many times do I have to go through this stalling tactic?

You have my address. You have my email. You have my phone number.

Is Leslie trying to reach me through Madame Psychic?

Is it on her "to do" list for 2003?

Originally posted by webreseller
As mentioned AGAIN, Leslie has been trying to get in touch with you to find out what card to refund it to or verify an address to send a check..

Hey FWIW, every merchant agreement I've seen strictly forbids issuing a check as a refund against a charge on a credit card, as it'd be considered a "cash advance" by the CC company, subject to a (usually higher) interest rate.

Of course, YMMV, my $0.02USD, etc.

It is so nice to see that I am not the only one Webreseller has screwed it looks like it becoming quite obvious that Robert is a liar as well. Not that I am happy any of you are having problems, just happy to see others speaking up about it.

Sorry Robert the ole song and dance it has been handled and I will not discuss it anymore only works so many times.

You never answered my challenge to send the verification on the refund I never got to my PM box so that someone like Chicken can see you really sent it, instead of you lying here on WHT saying you sent it and I've never get it.

So are you up to the truth?

This forum rocks.

A couple of posts and IN UNDER FIVE MINUTES I got that magical call from Leslie!

It seems they "have been trying to reach me" to find out which of the two credit card number on file to use (even though I told them to use the one they last charged ... hmmm, must be using a DOS version of Quickbooks or something).

Okay, enough sarcasm. Or is it?

If I beleived in benefit of the doubt, I could peacably agree that there was some misunderstanding and that my request here has prompted a saintly forum poster from Webreseller.net to look into my sob story of a problem, and in pity, got their poor, starving, on-the-edge-of-death accounting staff to make sure that in spite of hundreds of children, I mean clients, lined up for "more soup please", they chose wretched ME to be sure to make ME happy by doing what they gosh-darn-always-meant-to-but-couldn't-fast-enough.

Then again, it could be a good public relations move.

Eternal thanks to St. Isadore, proposed patron saint of the Internet!

And thank you Paul, or Rob, or whoever you are for coming clean.

But understand one thing: this resolves ONE issue, and if anyone there really wants to believe the credit was for lost data after all I went through to get it, you go right ahead.

Email from Leslie, explaining the situation, albeit the friendly "did not get a response" from ME is pretty ironic, if not absurd. Someone really wants to make a liar out of me on this one.

Make of it what you will. On THIS issue, I personally am satisfied. Good luck to the rest of you.

----------------------
Thank you, this has been processed.

We can NOT refund money to a wrong card, we have an ID, however, it's not linked to the card. We DO NOT keep cards on file after an account is closed. The only way for us to get them back is by a lookup and cross reference on the first four and last four. That's all we needed now it's complete...

Thank you though for the Post on WHT, because I had forgot about ya after I did not get a response, I'm glad this is resolved...

find a better company for us then

Ken,

To let you know, if you perform a chargeback, (you are more then welcome to post this on WHT as I am sure you will), for the last month that you were obligated to you will be sent to NCO collection and your remarks on WHT will certainly help with our case. We bent over backwards for you and you were warned about the problems that could happen by the migration and you did it anyway. You have been refunded the $75.00 as we said we would do.

Thank You
Leslie McMichael


I really wonder what she means by "help our cause" ... I'm sending some of these posts from you guyts to the card company.

:)

Ken,

You need to settle down and grow up. I was asked to make a post about your comment and in my many years of business I never thought I would every say that to a customer.

I am going to refrain from giving out ALL the details here of the transactions that took place and the ONLY reason why you are bitter and causing these problems is because we would not give you a free upgrade and the fact that after we said we would not give you a free upgrade you all of a sudden said you wanted a refund from 8 MONTHS AGO---> Yes I said "8 Months Ago" when he wanted a migration and he was warned a number of times this WOULD cause problems, he did it anyway... You can say that we did nothing for you, but we told you EXACTLY how to make the entries.. (shall we post the tickets)

For those wondering: This was a 2.0 - 3.0 Migration for WP

So, for all the folks reading this post here is the quick one liner:

(Ken + Migration + warned = FAILED) + (free upgrade = NO) + (complained about migration from 8 months ago) + (webreseller gave him $75.00 back (did not have to) + (ken now does not want to adhere to the SLA) = Ken want's to do a charge back because he is mad...

I hope nobody takes offense to this, we have many great customers through this WHT and we value and care for all of you, however, certain times you can only be pushed so far and the emails received from Ken and the abusive nature of these made me post this so people could see the at least some of the truth...

You're just hilarious.

Should I tell them what the $75 was REALLY for, since you obviously either don't remember, understand, or want to admit?

You just keep repeating "KEN LOST DATA AFTER BEING WARNED" ...

I'm trying to be civil, and I better watch myself, since you really want this to be written off as a flame war. So for the benefit of everyone, here's what I CAN'T GET THROUGH TO YOU:

I DID NOT LOSE DATA. I NEVER SAID THIS -- EVER. THIS IS NOT THE PROBLEM.

Of course you said EVERYONE lost some data, but that was not MY complaint. Screwing up the migration by forgetting an MX record -- an honest mistake, forgiveable. Telling me to blame my biggest client's mail server for a week before I conviced you it was your fault and you finally fixed it? Having to hand their staff their email on floppy disks in the meantime? No, that isn't it either -- not for the $75 credit anyway.

PAYING EXTRA have the migration done on BY A CERTAIN DATE and YOU DID NOT... hhhmmm. Got you there.

Maybe the reason you desperately want it to be a data issue is because your ever-changing "SLA" covered your butt for that. Well, guess what ... I'm not after your butt.

So HERE YOU HAVE IT:

Paying extra for you to do something you did not = $75 credit.
Finally.
After half a year of begging for some gesture of good faith.
After being blown off weeks after you agreed to the credit.
After passing a fictitious date you gave me for crediting my card.
After having to go publically with my complaint to "encourage you" to do the right thing.
Thank you. Come again.

Yes, you may try to say this "came out of the blue" because I questioned you for charging for an upgrade. Here's a hint: I TOLD YOU I WOULD BE LEAVING WHEN I COULD BEFORE THIS. I DIDN'T WANT YOUR UPGRADE. Yeah, my lack of respect for how you handled the last upgrade made me bring up the credit I ASKED FOR EIGHT MONTHS AGO. Your final inability to handle an issue you blew off so many times was the straw that broke the camel's back.

And the "chargeback" I'm talking about ABOVE isn't even about this. It's obvious your staff can't read posts any better than emails.

SO, to finally be blunt, why don't you shut up if you don't even know why you're giving me a credit, and then think you can make me look like a liar with a personal problem. This isn't WebHostingClientForum.Com here ... these are reviews about YOU, and if you can't handle it without trying to speak for me or put me down, get out of the business

As mentioned in the other Post, we never said "Lost Data", we said "Cause Problems"

Originally posted by goodness0001
find a better company for us then

I needed a semi-managed solution. In other words, a specific balance between control and support. I did domething that is right for my business, but do not recommend this for anyone in general.

I found a local hosting company that co-locates through VenturesOnline.Com. Why not go direct? Because I needed the extra level of support.

It is amazing the level of suppoort I get from the small local firm called Silver Star Sites. Silly name, but that's TWO levels of quality control, from physically keeping an eye on the server to never having to hear "we don't cover that". Instead, it's "let's see what I can do" right down to finding supplemental software solutions. I finally have answers about FrontPage-server issues that my last host would or could not give me, even thoguh they "support" FrontPage Server Extensions. I have several site log analyzers at my figuretips. And not that cPanel isn't a bit crappy in interface in spots, but IMO it beats Ensim in flexibility and features.

Drawbacks:

Currently they go only Linux. That's all I can think of.

In terms of speed, they seem faster than Webreseller, and maybe comparable to Web2010 when I hosted with them a couple of years ago. They have more redundancy from what I've heard, too.

And I don't even care what number of nines there are on an uptime guarantee. That was a selling point until I got smart and realized that the credits you would give to aware customers would always outway any token credit for so many minutes down as a percentage of the month's fees. Has there ever been a single soul who was benefited in cash from an extra nine? I'm not running uptime-critical sites like eBay, and so it isn't a big issue for me, but I would like to know.

Originally posted by webreseller
As mentioned in the other Post, we never said "Lost Data", we said "Cause Problems"

I stand corrected, at least this one time you did not mention "data loss" -- nice touch. But again, that wasn't my point, was it?

As for "Cause Problems" ...
Well, I didn't get any bunyons on my feet if that's what you mean.

I'm a businessman. Problems don't concern me. That's part of business. So are mistakes. Errors not fixed concern me. Deadlines missed concern me. Constantly missing deadlines that effect my credibility with my clients concerns me a lot.

The need for credits does not concern me. Denying obvious credits concerns me. Agreeing to "think about it" or "look into it" without ever following up concerns me. Agreeing to a specific credit and not telling your accounting department concerns me. Having to threaten legal action or waste time going "boo-hoo" on the forums to get a response concerns me.

Having to contact you to remind you of a credit did not concern me. Getting the runaround, and repeatedly not answering specific questions about how it would be handled concerns me.

Recovering a month of hosting I did not and could not use still concerns me. (See previous post.) Tallying up losses in business from an error that went unfixed will still haunt me.

Receiving the credit due and never admitting your fault no longer concerns me. In fact, you'll be glad to know I'm done for now. Say whatever you want in rebuttal; post all about my tickets and emails selectively piecing together your truth. Beleive it yourself if it helps you sleep at night.

... but one of us has better things to do. Goodnight.

Originally posted by KENTROPOLIS
Say whatever you want in rebuttal..<snip>..but one of us has better things to do. Goodnight.

Well that's hardly fair or reasonable, in any business sense Ken. Many of us use Webreseller, or watch these types of threads to make our own assumptions of different providers. But your complete complaint has just fallen into a bumbling heap in my opinion, if that's how you will treat any response from the other side.

If you had something better to do you wouldn't have posted in the first place.

Cheers

Gary

Originally posted by Editor


Well that's hardly fair or reasonable ... But your ... complaint has just fallen into a bumbling heap in my opinion, if that's how you will treat any response from the other side.

If you had something better to do you wouldn't have posted in the first place.


Gary:

You may be right. I'm a bit dramatic by nature, and I let my angst show. Maybe it was a bad idea to post here, but at least I got ONE credit I had coming. Did it make me feel any better? Not really. That wasn't my point, even if I'm tired of people who are not accountable to their clients, and found this as a way to serve justice through knowledge in some small way. Isn't that really the mecahnism by which this site benefits people?

But I do beleive the problem is delivery and not accuracy. If you read my posts, I would hope you at least recognize my reliance on consistently asserted facts. But facts will be disputed, yadda, yadda, and in the end ...

I got sucked in.

I said my piece, from the hip, and when I got the "now little Kenny Customer, you shouldn't be unhappy, behave yourself" attitude, I took it personally. They treated me as insignificant as a client many times (and many times not, admittedly), and treated me that way here. In protecting their own image here, I was pretty much made out to be a liar and/or a fool. Maybe I helped them succeed at that, but I didn't state any fact that was not true to the best of my knowledge, memory, documentation, and experience. And I can't apologize for that.

My piece has been said, perhaps more than I wanted to, but could not stand and their "truth" be promulgated without response. Yes, it's late and I'm droning on with violins ... sorry.

:bawling:

I told you all to do what you will with it. As a moderator, I don't know what your role is toward these things. If you feel I wasted your time and mine, maybe you are right, maybe you are not. If you think I am wrong, that my be true, and it isn't my goal to change your mind. But if you think I have lied, you are wrong.

I can say I didn't hide something that someone else may need to know.

I really do need some sleep ... goodnight to all.

Ken, you really ought not to take this personally. If webreseller mistreat you in anyway, this forum will preserve a copy of that in the archive for everyone to see.

In terms of your posts, you need to realize that when you are posting on a public forum, it isn't just about dialogue - it is also for the taking of other readers. It would be much better if you could give a detailed account of your affairs with webreseller, rather then simply conversing with Robert. (forgive me - but I still don't quite understand fully what happened).

Peter

Originally posted by KENTROPOLIS
In protecting their own image here, I was pretty much made out to be a liar and/or a fool.

If it's any help, not to me you weren't. I read these forums to stay up to date. You seemed to be presenting a valid case, as was Webreseller. Who's right/wrong/lying/whatever is ultimately for you two to decide. You just lost me when you resorted to "say what you want, I have better things to do". :)

We've had small to large problems with a lot of providers on these forums, but resolve them off the forums. If I brought something up here, I'd certainly be inviting/expecting rebuttal.

Anyways, I hope your problems are fixed.

Cheers

Gary

Originally posted by ckpeter
Ken, you really ought not to take this personally. If webreseller mistreat you in anyway, this forum will preserve a copy of that in the archive for everyone to see.

In terms of your posts, you need to realize that when you are posting on a public forum, it isn't just about dialogue - it is also for the taking of other readers. It would be much better if you could give a detailed account of your affairs with webreseller, rather then simply conversing with Robert. (forgive me - but I still don't quite understand fully what happened).

Peter


i dont really understand it either, but from the sounds of things i dont think its webresellers fault, they seem like there trying to fix the problem & Ken isnt making much sense?

Which is why I suggested Ken gives a detailed account of his experience. I too am confused about the whole thing.

Peter

I never intended to get into the details of the botched migration. In fact, I tried ignoring the fact it was brought up by Webreseller as an excuse for my credit problems.

What I brought to the forum was an agreement with another member here (or more) that giving credits they promised WAS a problem. This wasn't supposed to be about WHY the credit was issued, and I gave enough details to make sure you all knew Webresseller was dodging the issue by painting an inaccurate picture of both me and my claims.

And yes, the credit itself, which I checked into for the umpteenth time to get no answers, was the straw that broke the camel's back with them. The pre, post, and during migration problems, along with other issues I haven't even said, convinced me months ago to find another provider. I really didn't want to change providers again in less than 16 months -- it's such a pain, and it costs time and money!

No one else here apparently has had such as many bad experiences with them. Yes, you all may deserve to know these things, but you are right ... many of the issues are between them and me as perhaps unique circumstances.

What do you really want to know about them HERE on WHT?

Have I had noticeable downtime? No.
Do they answer support tickets promptly at all hours? Yes.
What is the overall quality of tech support? Very good.

Yes, beside the credit problem that was finally resolved, there are a few things I could say. But at the risk of going through "arguing online" with them about details of my personal dissatisfaction, I will only say this:

For ANY hosting provider, my lessons learned are:

If you need specific features not listed on their site, GET IT IN WRITING. If features ARE listed, including the original SLA/TOS docs, keep copies of them, electronically and on paper.

If they say they say they don't support it, after saying they do, call them on it.

If you have a problem and you can't get the simplest of concepts across to them what the problem actually is, after many emails and phone calls, hold them accountable, publically if necessary.


Many of you have never had a provider more than a year or two. Needs change, but I suspect sooner or later the honeymoon is over and you get fed up with pricing, support, billing, or whatever. We spend a huge effort to make a switch to someone else hoping they live up to their claims, shake the dust from our sandals and move on.

When the hosting company IS at fault, they hide behind SLA or TOS fine print you couldn't avoid accepting, just to do business, as all the CYA stuff is a standard to discourage lawsuits. Nothing personal, I suppose -- it's just part of the game. But can you beleive many of us actually agree, for vital service or upgrades, to not hold them liable for anything that goes wrong -- EVEN IF IT'S THEIR MISTAKE?

Yeah, someone on my tech staff made an MX error once (on the new server) that caused a few hours of misdirected mail, WHICH I TOOK THE RESPONSIBILITY TO FIX IMMEDIATELY AND TEST IT TO BE SURE IT WORKED. (If my old provider had handled it this way, I wouldn't have more than a slight reason to gripe -- I wouldn't do more than swear under my breath once or twice and forget about it.)

Did I remind the client of some legal agreement when they rightfully complained? Did I blame it on the machine, or tell tham it's typical?

NO!

I kissed their ass by sending their office a "bouquet" of small indoor plants, along with an APOLOGY and an CREDIT for a whole MONTH that they didn't even ask for. I'll even be sending their yearly invoice a month or two late "by mistake".

Yes, I lost money, and reputation, and I'll admit it publiclay.

Maybe my ethical standards are too high, and I don't tolerate well others who can't meet them. But there has to be some standard, for the client's sake. I switched to Webreseller after much research, to get away from Web2010, just as it transitioned to Hostcentric. My problem with Web2010 was occasional incompetence in billing and support, and price was a factor. I didn't take my problems with them personally, because I didn't get a runaround or attitude, and I can forgive actual apologies.

What what gets to me and waht doesn't isn't important to you. If you have specific questions, I will take personal emails, but I may not be back, for a while at least. My business is starting to pick up again and there's some time with family I'm meaning to spend. Take care everyone ...