:(
cnn (http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/10/25/plane.crash.minn/index.html)

he was a damn good senator

I was just reading that :(

My condolences go out to their families. This really is sad. :(

Very, sad :( :(

A senator that actually had something to offer, quite a loss.

quite a loss for the family and the country.

Yes, sad news. I've actually met the Senator a couple of times, as I've done work for different campaigns and related political organizations. In fact, earlier this week I spoke to some friends who have been working on fundraising for this campaign, and were making plans to travel to Minneapolis attend his victory party after the election.

I've had occasion to meet more than a few politicians, both well-known and obscure and from both the major parties (and others), but have met very few who've impressed me as being as sincere, straightforward, and honest as has Paul Wellstone.

The other very sad thing, as local news had reported it, he was flying to attend a funeral.

Originally posted by AceWeb
The other very sad thing, as local news had reported it, he was flying to attend a funeral.

:eek: :(

Originally posted by mind21_98


:eek: :(

"Wellstone was on his way to the funeral of the father of a state lawmaker." - CBS News

I live in MN and although I didn't agree with Sen. Wellstone's political views I always admired him for sticking to his beliefs no matter what. It is a sad day not only for Minnesota but the country.

sad...he a demo rep. or in?

democrat

wowa the senate might go back to a 50/50 split wohoooo!!!!

Originally posted by interactive
wowa the senate might go back to a 50/50 split wohoooo!!!!

It wouldn't actually be a 50/50 split. Vice President Cheney would issue any tie-breaking votes, tipping the balance toward the Republicans.

Originally posted by mind21_98


It wouldn't actually be a 50/50 split. Vice President Cheney would issue any tie-breaking votes, tipping the balance toward the Republicans.
close enough!!!

Originally posted by interactive
wowa the senate might go back to a 50/50 split wohoooo!!!!
You frighten me interactive. First, a man died. He died. Not only him, but his wife, daughter, 3 staffers and 2 pilots. They all died.

And you're cheering...

And then you're uninformed. MN Gov. Jesse Ventura (you may be confused, the governor is someone who leads the state. Kind of like the president of a country) appoints someone to take Wellstone's place until the Senate session is over this January (I believe, please correct me if I'm wrong). Ventura will no doubt appoint a Democrat to take Wellstone's seat, thereby maintaining the 50/49 Democrat majority.

Please excuss me, but you are a disgusting, vile human being to be cheering at someone’s death, especially the death of someone so respected and revered as Wellstone.

Had it been a republican who died, I know several liberals who would be dancing in the streets. So, back off Dogma.

Wellstone was known as one of the most liberal members of the senate. He has even been refered to as "Senator Welfare".

I do not rejoice in the death of anyone. That's not the point I'm making. When you care about your country and the path it has been taking....... I'll leave it at that.

Originally posted by Lamont
Had it been a republican who died, I know several liberals who would be dancing in the streets. So, back off Dogma.
What kind of insane logic is that? If I were to kill someone I would still be condemned even though a conservative might kill someone the next day. It's wrong. It doesn't depend who did it. That's like saying it's okay for Noelle Bush to smoke crack just 'cause her Uncle Dubya got away with it. It just doesn't make sense!

I would yell at a liberal dancing about Helms just as I did here. We liberals are a kind folk. We would wait at least a few days for heavens sake ;).
Originally posted by Lamont
Wellstone was known as one of the most liberal members of the senate. He has even been refered to as "Senator Welfare".
Woo-hoo! I'm dancing in the streets for that.
Originally posted by Lamont
I do not rejoice in the death of anyone.
Good, You have respect and a sense of dignity not seen in all members of this forum.
Originally posted by Lamont
That's not the point I'm making. When you care about your country and the path it has been taking....... I'll leave it at that.
Don't worry, it's taking a conservative path. You can thank us New Demcrats (or as I like to call them, No Backbone Democrats). They're pretty much letting Bush get his way, even letting us have that wonderful tax cut that's really helping our economy right now...

Regardless of the politics involved, I also found the celebratory "wohoooo!!!!" in reaction the deaths of eight people to be somewhat disturbing.

But then I usually feel something along those lines every time I see rah-rah cheering about either of the political parties, as if they were the local sports team.

.

I wasn't cheering over the lose of life..I have sympathy for whoever was involved I was just cheering that the senate would be split again!

Originally posted by Dogma

Don't worry, it's taking a conservative path. You can thank us New Demcrats (or as I like to call them, No Backbone Democrats). They're pretty much letting Bush get his way, even letting us have that wonderful tax cut that's really helping our economy right now...

those same democrats who dont want bushs tax cut to go through in colorado have taken the $1.5 bil the got for the fires and put it into the state budget...instead of helping out the people...it goes both ways

Originally posted by Dogma

You frighten me interactive. First, a man died. He died. Not only him, but his wife, daughter, 3 staffers and 2 pilots. They all died.

And you're cheering...

And then you're uninformed. MN Gov. Jesse Ventura (you may be confused, the governor is someone who leads the state. Kind of like the president of a country) appoints someone to take Wellstone's place until the Senate session is over this January (I believe, please correct me if I'm wrong). Ventura will no doubt appoint a Democrat to take Wellstone's seat, thereby maintaining the 50/49 Democrat majority.

Please excuss me, but you are a disgusting, vile human being to be cheering at someone’s death, especially the death of someone so respected and revered as Wellstone.

excuse meh! but jesse ventura is actually independent...so its kinda a toss up....and like mind said...for now cheney fills in till jesse choses...so if your gunna try to make a fool of me dont make a fool of yourself in the process (makes you look like a fool you see)?

Originally posted by Dogma

What kind of insane logic is that? If I were to kill someone I would still be condemned even though a conservative might kill someone the next day. It's wrong. It doesn't depend who did it.

I don't know where that came from. I didn't say anything about killing anyone.

That's like saying it's okay for Noelle Bush to smoke crack just 'cause her Uncle Dubya got away with it. It just doesn't make sense!

Or, getting a hummer in the Oval Office. But, here again, does not have anything to do with what I said.

They're pretty much letting Bush get his way, even letting us have that wonderful tax cut that's really helping our economy right now...
You obviously have no understanding of economics.

The government is not on the right track. Given time it will fail. I'm just waiting for the revolution to begin. I'll be on the front lines. But, that's a discussion for another day. (OOPS, there's 2 FBI lookin' dudes at my door. Gotta go.)

Originally posted by interactive

and like mind said...for now cheney fills in till jesse choses No, that's not correct. The vice president casts a vote to break any ties. It's always that way; he's not "filling in." If, for example, there are 100 senators but only 90 vote and the vote breaks 45-45, the vice president (in his role as the presiding officer or "President of the Senate") gets a vote.

If there's a 50-49 vote in the interim until Senator Wellstone is replaced, the Vice President won't get to "fill in" for the missing Senator and cast a 100th vote.

A 50-50 split would be likely to allow that deciding vote to be cast more often; and one scenario in which it would happen would be whenever a vote breaks a long party lines -- but they certainly don't all do that.

Originally posted by interactive
excuse meh! but jesse ventura is actually independent...so its kinda a toss up....and like mind said...for now cheney fills in till jesse choses...so if your gunna try to make a fool of me dont make a fool of yourself in the process (makes you look like a fool you see)?
True, Jesse is an independent. Out of respect for Wellstone and his constituents, he would certainly appoint a Democrat to take Wellstone’s place.

In fact, the Constitution (specifically the 17th Amendment) says: When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.
I don’t see anything about Cheney filling the seat...

I’m not even going to address your fool comment. You sound just like Bush: “There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again” (from Whitehouse.gov).
Originally posted by Lamont

I don't know where that came from. I didn't say anything about killing anyone.
It’s called an analogy (look it up sometime). You said “Had it been a republican who died, I know several liberals who would be dancing in the streets. So, back off Dogma.” as if the first person (Interactive) is justified in doing something just because someone else did it. I used an analogy (there’s those big words again, sorry) to show that your reasoning is incorrect. A murder is not justified because someone else has/will done/do it. Just as a thief’s actions aren’t justified because another person has stolen. These statements prove that there are faults in your reasoning..
Originally posted by Lamont
Or, getting a hummer in the Oval Office. But, here again, does not have anything to do with what I said.
But Clinton didn’t say “Other’s are getting blowjobs and lying about it, so I’m sure justified in doing it!”

I do know a bit about economics, but usually I rely on others’ learned opinions and firsthand knowledge (such as the knowledge that the “trickle-down” economics that Bush believes in don’t work)

dogma, your logic is of a 4 year old. I dont see how it would have any thing to do with respect to put a democrat in office.. you obviously dont know what an analogy is either...no one got mordered it was a plain crash....but then again you didn't know that either

Dogma,

Supply Side Economics (or, "trickle-down" to you liberals) does work. It means letting those who make the money, spend their money (a concept foreign to government liberals).

My knowledge comes first-hand as an accountant and CFO of a contracting company (re: evil big business).

liberals=commies commies=liberals :D

Originally posted by interactive
dogma, your logic is of a 4 year old.
Wow, that coming from someone who can't spell nor write (I'm not saying that I'm perfect, but I at least try). Can you find any holes in my logic, any evidence or proof of your claim? I'd be glad to address any errors that you find.
Originally posted by interactive
I dont see how it would have any thing to do with respect to put a democrat in office.
Politics aside, you cheered for the death of a human being. In fact, this shouldn't have to deal with politics at all. Eight people died and you said "wohoooo!!!"
Originally posted by interactive
you obviously dont know what an analogy is either...no one got mordered it was a plain crash....but then again you didn't know that either
Try researching and learning about analogies because you obviously have no idea what they are. I'll help you with a definition:Main Entry: anal·o·gy
Pronunciation: &-'na-l&-jE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -gies
Date: 15th century
1 : inference that if two or more things agree with one another in some respects they will prob. agree in others
2 a : resemblance in some particulars between things otherwise unlike : SIMILARITY b : comparison based on such resemblance

I never said that there was a murder involved in the death of Wellstone and I do understand/know that he was killed in a plane crash. I was merely making an analogy, something that you would understand if you understood what an analogy.

Interactive, you really confuse me. I have absolutely no idea of what you're trying to say or prove. Please, in your next post, try to identify what I said and then respond in a coherent matter. If I wrote a word (like analogy) that doesn't make sense, look it up. Coherent arguments from both sides will better the world.

ok here goes:
First I personally don't care about how I type or spell. Outside of the "internet" I use correct grammer, I talk normal, and I spell correctly. But on the web for me it's kind of a place to "relax". Therefore I'm not overly concerned with how I type.

as I stated in a previous post I did not cheer for the death of Senator Wellstone (even though he was a democrat), I cheered that maybe the senate would be even? Scarry thought?

Anology:

a·nal·o·gy Pronunciation Key (-nl-j)
n. pl. a·nal·o·gies

Similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar.
A comparison based on such similarity. See Synonyms at likeness.
Biology. Correspondence in function or position between organs of dissimilar evolutionary origin or structure.
A form of logical inference or an instance of it, based on the assumption that if two things are known to be alike in some respects, then they must be alike in other respects.
Linguistics. The process by which words or morphemes are re-formed or created on the model of existing grammatical patterns in a language, often leading to greater regularity in paradigms, as evidenced by helped replacing holp and holpen as the past tense and past participle of help on the model of verbs such as yelp, yelped, yelped.


I won't say a word. ;). Now you accuse me of "having no idea of what your trying to say or prove", yet you drag it off topic, you obviously have a memory problem, or are to lazy to luck back a couple of posts. Anyways life moves on and so do I

Originally posted by Dogma



And then you're uninformed. MN Gov. Jesse Ventura (you may be confused, the governor is someone who leads the state. Kind of like the president of a country) appoints someone to take Wellstone's place until the Senate session is over this January (I believe, please correct me if I'm wrong). Ventura will no doubt appoint a Democrat to take Wellstone's seat, thereby maintaining the 50/49 Democrat majority.


You are uninformed Dogma Under Minnesota law, whoever wins the Senate election would take office immediately upon being certified by the State Canvassing Board, which is set to meet Nov. 19. So If Ventura does appoint a replacement that person would only serve as US Senator until Nov. 19 at that time whoever win the 11-5 election would become the Senator. If Ventura does appt a democrat then you are right the Dems would maintain control until at least 11-19-02 depending on the elections across the country. As sad as his death is the fact is that power of the Senate is now in limbo and everyone is speculating on the possible outcomes.

Originally posted by arpmn


You are uninformed Dogma Under Minnesota law, whoever wins the Senate election would take office immediately upon being certified by the State Canvassing Board, which is set to meet Nov. 19. So If Ventura does appoint a replacement that person would only serve as US Senator until Nov. 19 at that time whoever win the 11-5 election would become the Senator. If Ventura does appt a democrat then you are right the Dems would maintain control until at least 11-19-02 depending on the elections across the country. As sad as his death is the fact is that power of the Senate is now in limbo and everyone is speculating on the possible outcomes.

Thanks arpmn :D...so dogma

Originally posted by arpmn
You are uninformed Dogma Under Minnesota law, whoever wins the Senate election would take office immediately upon being certified by the State Canvassing Board, which is set to meet Nov. 19. So If Ventura does appoint a replacement that person would only serve as US Senator until Nov. 19 at that time whoever win the 11-5 election would become the Senator.
I'm not uninformed (I've been listening to NPR for the past two days learning about all the laws involved), I merely looked in the long term. Based on historical prescedence, Ventura will appoint a Democrat to replace Wellstone. Also, again based on history, Wellstone (if they choose not to replace his name) or another Democrat will win the election (See the 2000 Carnahan v. Ashcroft Senate race).
Originally posted by arpmn
As sad as his death is the fact is that power of the Senate is now in limbo and everyone is speculating on the possible outcomes.
It already was up in limbo, now it's just a bit more confusing :D

I don't mean to sound like an a__hole, but thanks for bringing up some very valid points that I should have addressed in a coherent manner.

You seem so confident dogma that he will appoint a democrat...

Originally posted by interactive
You seem so confident dogma that he will appoint a democrat... He doesn't like the Republican who ran against him for governor
His aids said that he would appoint a DemocratYes I'm confident.


And onto your confusion of analogies. Let's use the definition you provided: "A form of logical inference or an instance of it, based on the assumption that if two things are known to be alike in some respects, then they must be alike in other respects."

The common thread, as the definition requires, is that it's justifiable to do something, even though it's wrong, because someone else might do it. I extended that to the "two things [that] are known to be alike in some respects:"

It is justifiable for you to cheer because someone else would
It is justifiable for you to kill because someone else would

It's that simple.

Dogma,

When you use an analogy you should tie the two situations together to justify the use and explain how they would be related. You failed to do that making your analogy look like a disjointed rant.

Also, interactive did not justify his cheer by saying someone else would. He also stated that he was not cheering the death of the senator. You are combining posts from two different people to create a statement that wasn't made or inferred.

Also, Dogma, you're making a mountain out of a molehill and also making an ass out of yourself with this stand you're taking.

You wanted a fight from these guys. Now you've got one and made yourself look like more of an ass. Congratulations.

Originally posted by lightnin
Now you've...made yourself look like more of an ass. Congratulations.
Thank you.

Originally posted by interactive
liberals=commies commies=liberals :D

Technically that's wrong. It's like saying conservatives=fascists fascists=conservatives.

Check the political spectrum again and you'll see communism is left of liberal (and an anarchist is left of a communist).

Chris

Well it doesn't matter who Ventura appoints since he/she will only serve until around the middle of Nov. But yes he did indicate that since Wellstone was a dem that he would appt a dem but that has nothing to do with the fact that he likes/dislikes Norm Coleman (GOP candidate for senate and GOP candidate who lost to Ventura by 3% in 1998).

I agree Dogma that Norm Coleman will have his work cut out for him since all you hear or see on TV is how tragic Wellstone's death is and what a great man he was. But I believe it's a little different then the Carnahan v. Ashcroft Senate race of 2000. After Mel Carnahan died his name was left on the ballot and the Democrat MO Gov indicated that if the dead Carnahan beat John Ashcroft then he would appoint Carnahan's widow to serve his term. Well Ashcroft couldn't go after the widow so he basically couldn't campaign the last 2 weeks that along with the sympathy vote doomed him. The DFL in MN want the 75 year old Mondale to replace Wellstone on the ballot so when that is official Coleman will be able to campaign and compare records and issues against Mondale. But yes the sympathy factor will have legs for Mondale. We'll know for sure next week!

You can follow the local MN coverage about all this here:
Star Trib (http://www.startribune.com)

UPDATE! Ventura might not appoint a dem to fill Wellstone's term after yesterday's "memorial" which was really a 3-hour poltical rally for dems which the local TV stations were tricked into airing as a "memorial"!

Star Trib Atricle (http://www.startribune.com/stories/587/3399040.html)

Headline of article:
Ventura offended by tone of memorial; may appoint independent to seat

Ventura actually walked out of the service. I personally think it was a freaking fiasco, but I've come to expect no less.

Originally posted by MDJ2000
I personally think it was a freaking fiasco, but I've come to expect no less. Fiascos seem to have long been part and parcel of Minnesota politics.

No offense intended to the Minnesotans; I think that's great. Same reason I love/hate New York politics.

Yeah, that was a great memorial *cough*political rally*cough* last night wasn't it?

Try this link on for size you arrogant, uninformed "New Democrat".

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/politics/4415928.htm

And while it is unfortunate that Senator Wellstone died so tragically he was certainly NOT a great man.

Originally posted by Rotifer
A senator that actually had something to offer, quite a loss.
I do have to say I was saddened by the situation, but what do you mean by he had something to offer? I mean, it seemed as though in a lot of cases he was the only voter for a specifc side (i.e. a 99-1 vote).

(Hehe, don't want to get too political here. ;) )

Originally posted by errodr
Try this link on for size you arrogant, uninformed "New Democrat".
[LINK]
First, I'm not a "New Democrat," in fact, I'm not a democrat, I'm a progressive.

Second, I obviously didn't think that the DNC or whoever would bastardize Wellstone's memorial. I saw people cheering and booing, that is not what should be happening at a memorial (unless, of course, you're cheering in remembrance of the deceased's life). To call me arrogant for that is idiotic; you can call me arrogant for other things if you'd like, but just not this. And it is even more idiotic to call me uniformed. Previous to the "memorial" Ventura had indicated that he would appoint a Democrat. That hardly sounds "uninformed."
Originally posted by errodr
And while it is unfortunate that Senator Wellstone died so tragically he was certainly NOT a great man.
He most certainly was. No matter his politics (I don't agree with all of them) he was a man that stood for his convictions and for his people. Even the Republicans say that they don't agree with him, but they have respect for him.

Originally posted by Dogma
He most certainly was. No matter his politics (I don't agree with all of them) he was a man that stood for his convictions and for his people. Even the Republicans say that they don't agree with him, but they have respect for him.
errodr probably should have rather stated he was NOT a great politician. That may not be my opinion, just saying that might be what he meant.

Originally posted by JayC
Fiascos seem to have long been part and parcel of Minnesota politics.

No offense intended to the Minnesotans; I think that's great. Same reason I love/hate New York politics.

No offense taken, here in Minnesota they take pride in their "far-out" politicians like Senators like Eugene Mccarthy. We even had a Governor who appointed himself Senator (Wendell Anderson). A sitting Governor who wasn't endorsed by his own party so he had to run un-endorsed, he won...Arne Carlson. A business owner who ran cheesy local TV ads in plaid shirts (Rudy Boschwitz). One who was denouced by the U.S. Sentate for unethical conduct and of course for electing a former WWF wrassler as Governor, Jesse. Man how embarrrasing! :blush:

First, I'm not a "New Democrat," in fact, I'm not a democrat, I'm a progressive.

Second, I obviously didn't think that the DNC or whoever would bastardize Wellstone's memorial. I saw people cheering and booing, that is not what should be happening at a memorial (unless, of course, you're cheering in remembrance of the deceased's life). To call me arrogant for that is idiotic; you can call me arrogant for other things if you'd like, but just not this. And it is even more idiotic to call me uniformed. Previous to the "memorial" Ventura had indicated that he would appoint a Democrat. That hardly sounds "uninformed."




democrat=socialist=commie

shall i quote what venture said half way trough the funeral at which time he left?

Originally posted by interactive
democrat=socialist=commie
No.
Originally posted by interactive
shall i quote what venture said half way trough the funeral at which time he left?
Did you read what I said? I said that I had no way of knowing that the memorial would be turned into a political rally. Before the memorial/rally Ventura had indicated that he would appoint a Democrat. My earlier posts were passed on that.

I know perfectly well what he said and I believe he's right. A memorial should not be politicized.

(Interactive, I agree with you on this, attacking me on this point is, um, well something only you would do).