Effective April 6th to May 1st, 2001 VDI will not be accepting any new clients and will be conducting normal business activity with existing clients only.

During this 3 week period, VDI will be adding new services, staff, and adding additional network infrastructures to strengthen our data center capabilities. It is due to the tremendous growth that VDI has enjoyed in the recent months that has made it both possible and necessary for VDI to take steps to insure high quality services to existing clients and continued stability through future growth.

We would like to thank all of our clients for making VDI a true success!

(from the VDI website)
----

Originally posted by CRego3D
Effective April 6th to May 1st, 2001 VDI will not be accepting any new clients and will be conducting normal business activity with existing clients only.

During this 3 week period, VDI will be adding new services, staff, and adding additional network infrastructures to strengthen our data center capabilities. It is due to the tremendous growth that VDI has enjoyed in the recent months that has made it both possible and necessary for VDI to take steps to insure high quality services to existing clients and continued stability through future growth.

We would like to thank all of our clients for making VDI a true success!

(from the VDI website)
----





If only more over loaded hosts would do this, the hosting industry would enjoy a far better reputation than it currently does.

I think it's a good idea....

It certainly shows good business sense from VDI.

Kudos to VDI for going the extra mile to provide their customers with great service!! As I have stated in a previous message it's nice to see a provider "take the bull by the horns" persay and follow through with it!!

Regards,
Brian P.

Maybe this shows the weakness in the infrustructure, and or problems.

It seems lately VDI is constantly down.

Nothing against anyone here, but in someways this isnt good news.

Joe

Guess they finally ran out of rackspace ;)

So I cant comment on any downtime issues. But if there is indeed issues that need resolved by eliminating new sign ups they can provide a better quality service to their existing customers without adding to the problem by accepting new ones. At least until it is resolved. Good business sense in my eyes.

Regards,
Brian P.

Originally posted by JBIZ718
Maybe this shows the weakness in the infrustructure, and or problems.

It seems lately VDI is constantly down.

Nothing against anyone here, but in someways this isnt good news.

Joe

Get back under your bridge. *cough* troll *cough*

Im sorry if you call me a TROLL. I am not. I bring up valid points and critisisms. I dont use VDI, and wouldnt. This board has some hard time looking at different perspectives.

The bottom line is whens the last time you heard UUNET doing something like that. It wouldnt happen because there infrustructure is in place to handle expansion...

That is a valid point.

If they have to shut down adding new clients, because the infrustructure cant handle it, then that is a problem.

I think it is good business sense. If this happened to a public company, there stock would drop big time.... That means no new revenue from operations...

The glass is not always half full.....

Joe

I think it's pretty funny that people offer kudos for short-sightedness. Most companies can at least see the trend their business is taking and lay in the proper foundation to handle the growth without having to shut off all growth for a period of time. Between this and VDI's other problems (specifically connectivity issues), it makes one wonder. It will be a good move on their part if they emerge with a better handle on their business.

I agree with Peeps, and thats sort of what I was trying to say.

But people dont want to look at that perspective on things.


Joe

Given that Burst.net are moving all (most of?) their servers out of VDI in May that should reduce their load considerably.

Gordon

Originally posted by Peeps
I think it's pretty funny that people offer kudos for short-sightedness. Most companies can at least see the trend their business is taking and lay in the proper foundation to handle the growth without having to shut off all growth for a period of time.

You also might want to consider that its not entirely VDIs fault. I don't know the specifics of their case so I won't comment on that. At my previous place of employment we had a datacenter with 2 OC3s and serveral DS3s running into it. We monitored bandwdith usage closely and when it hit around 50% we would begin the provisioning process. In March of one year we hit that mark and ordered two additional OC12s to be run to the data center. It took Bell Atlantic a YEAR to provision the OC12 fiber (they had to build a new SONET ring). Of course we tried every CLEC we could find and none of them could eaither handle an order that big, or could do it any faster. So, when bandwdith utilization hit 75% we stopped selling into that data center and sent customers to one of our other data centers.

The moral of the story being that it doesn't matter how well yuo plan, your plans can still be foiled by the POS incompetent ILEC :D.

Burst leaving is not a load breaker, anyways ....

VDI needs to make sure all current issues are resolved before we take new clients not because we are overloaded.

Just because new clients are "halted" does not stop currently clients. We are still getting many in house server orders still.

I think they said that because they want to get their current customers of their back.I hope its true that they will provide better service but i have second thoughts.

Maybe this will clear it up, since people are commenting in this aspect or possibly aren't aware. I think perhaps people got the wrong idea of VDI's message. I've been speaking with Bill about this and I think the message wasn't clear to reflect the situation accurately. From what I gather, this is not due to overloading and trying to avoid further overloading, but to not take on new client's, until things are all settled. I.e., any problems, any means to prevent future problems, etc.

If you continue to take on a lot of new clients, it takes away from the time you can take to get everything settled, to where you can concentrate on other things, not new client's and any other issues with switches or connections. It's not even a business strategy really, it's just to be able to open the opportunity up, to be able to take the time to get things done without any interruptions or new things to deal with, like setting up new servers for client's, etc. I'm sure that was more clear and I might not be entirely, 100 percent accurate, but that's the decision Bill made, for those reasons, not out of worry of the network dying or not handling new or more clients.

Hmmm Thats a better way of saying it :)

All i need now is a brain, I`m going to see the wizard tommorow !!

allan, that might be so. But were you around last year when the proverbial stuff hit the fan with regard to VDI's single pipe? They finally got that taken care of, but at that same time, while they were planning for and implementing that addition, it would have been a good time to address some very fundamental needs. Smart companies plan for growth so that their capacity is never outstripped by demand and so they don't have to resort to measures like shutting off the new customer pipeline.

Originally posted by Peeps
Smart companies plan for growth so that their capacity is never outstripped by demand and so they don't have to resort to measures like shutting off the new customer pipeline.

I disagree.

Err ...

I thought VDI wasn't taking on any new clients??!!

http://webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=8093

Now they have 20 servers ready for new clients??

Perplexed I am.

THat is for Virtual Accounts and resellers, not dedicated and Co lo.. If we keep doors open, there would be at least another 100 - 200 Servers.

Did I miss something?? How can a company get better if they don`t have growing pains and learn from mistakes ?

When MCI several years back, the west coast lost connectivty for 5 - 6 days. Sprint had a Weekend outage, quest had a main power panel blow, it took 1 week to get back up.

I`m sure you can get many many more major outages, but guess what; they recovered and installed better equipment and failsafe measures.

Would you host your business in a datacenter that has never had an issue "if theres one" or someone that has that has seen all the issues and knows how to deal with them?

VDI is not the prettiest picture I've ever seen. When HostRocket moved there, I found the services pretty good except that people reported email problems, I noticed email problems, mailing lists didn't work etc.

Of course, I had to do something, and spent several days trying to fix numerous other problems. HR worked out their end, and it was all VDI problems- specifically the fact that every other day I sent out an email letting people know I'd have to be contacted through am personal email account because VDI's servers were down again.

I eventually switched from HR to Hosting Matters (alabanza) whcih I sometimes find defective too (alabanza).

I think Host Rocket and other companies oughta sue VDI for all the lost revenues in customers who have been turned off by the constant problems. I got a lot better bang for my buck with HR other than the fact that it didn't work 50% of the time.

I'm sure HR doesn't have to worry anymore though, with 17 servers plus two more at Alabanza, @ about 250 accounts per server, HR probably doesn't miss that many customers, when I was using their service they had four or five plus the alabanza accounts.



Generally, I could simplify this and say that VDI sucks.

Furthermore, a simple-a'-businessman as I am, I know that you have to project growth and work for it.

As for taking a year to get cables built to NOC's, may I suggest planning that into your projections. That's like asking FedEx to deliver overnight (near impossible if you ask me). I assume that there was more to it than just not delivering on time.

Yes, problems do occur that no one can forsee, but, NOTE: they get fixed within a week or two, VDI could be defined as a problem by now.

You are missing something. You are focusing on network items when Tim has posted (and you agreed) that it really wasn't network overload that is the cause of this new customer stoppage. I tend to believe that the constant network issues is really on the plate of things that you have to address, given my testing of various hosts based in your NOC.

In response to your question, I would rather deal with a datacenter that properly manages growth. It is apparent that you learned very little from your constant outages last year, and missed a prime opportunity to address some issues that could have used the attention. The best companies are those that are nimble enough to deal with change and continually focus on process improvement, not those that stop taking new business for a bit while they get their house in order - and then have to do it again the following year, and the year after that, and the year after that. "Growing pains" is the scapegoat trotted out by almost every company in situations like this, and is just another term for poor planning.

Just think. You're getting all of this advice and commentary for free instead of paying the usual fees that I would get. Are you open enough to listen to others who do this sort of thing for a living, or are you destined to be like every other company out there? The problem with company representatives who feel the need to always defend themselves from outside observation is that they are not outside observers and can't (or don't) see the need for constant, consistent reevaluation.

Originally posted by gnorthey
Generally, I could simplify this and say that VDI sucks.



I think that sums it up nicely.

I guess I can't say some of the things I'd say...

Trying to phrase this properly. Hmmm. You may or may not like VDI, I can understand that. I don't even have a server there, but I've been on the phone with Bill when he's basically ignored me the whole time attending to servers (non-network issues).

Ok, Bill sucks, VDI sucks, meanwhile I must be one of the few that envy what he has done. Lots of hosts talk about renting a server, a cage at a NOC, while he built one. It might have probems now and then, but as with tera, I understand that.

When something goes wrong at a data center, any data center really, most often everyone isn't sitting there with their thumbs up their donkey playing yahtzee.

And to say that companies don't limit new customers is just... happens all the time. They must halt new orders until a new factory is built to keep up with explosive demand, etc. I really don't know what anyone is talking about there... but anyway, I know VDI isn't perfect and Bill has never claimed it is.

I don't even remember what I'm typing about, heh...

Are you suggesting that Nike would halt all new production so they could build a new facility? Or that Ford would stop taking new orders until they built out a new production line? What world do you live in? Or that AOL would stop accepting new signups until they completed their next customer call center (yeah, right)? They develop their business models around certain patterns based on prior experience. If there is a problem, they tend to learn from it. That is the point that you have missed. Nobody has suggested that Bill ever claimed to be perfect. That would be ludicrous. The lack of vision shown by his company, however, is positively uninspiring.

Originally posted by Chicken

I don't even remember what I'm typing about, heh...

Oh just some VDI propaganda. Of course you feel this way, you're a moderator here at VDI central.

Originally posted by Peeps
Are you suggesting that Nike would halt all new production so they could build a new facility? Or that Ford would stop taking new orders until they built out a new production line? What world do you live in? Or that AOL would stop accepting new signups until they completed their next customer call center (yeah, right)?


Actually, Concentric used to stop selling into cities where dial up capacity had been reached. They would start selling once new capacity had been added.

A friend of mine just went to get a new car, and wanted a Plymouth PT Cruiser. These cars are in hot demand, and the dealer did not have any, and couldn't get any. They added her name to a waiting list, and will call her when they come in...oh, and she has to pay a premium. Another friend of mine is in cahrge of inventory at a mid-sized computer service center, a couple of years back there was a shortage of DRAM chips, and he had to scrounge to find them...again at a premium price.

So, in the world I live in, this happens all the time. There was news a couple of months back about a large ISP not taking any new orders for 3-4 months (I think it was Genuity) because of capacity. So, it does happen.

Of course all this is irrelevent, as Tim and William have both pointed out, VDI is not doing this for capacity reasons.

No, I don't think that has much to do with it.

Bill has actually done a very good thing by providing hosts a good alternative to Alabanza with cpanel/WHM and a good NOC. If he didn't forsee the growth of his company, it is good he is recognizing it now. It will just make those hosts better equipped with the tools they need.

But other NOCs don't have the affordability of supplying cpanel/WHM for a decent/affordable price (there are a handful of others out there, but not the norm). So that's why, at least initially, many hosting companies choose these NOCs (because of the control panel). But if you don't require cpanel, or are willing to pay a price above what VDI and a couple of others charge, then there are many more alternatives available. It all comes down to what is most important to your company.

Originally posted by Nashoba
Originally posted by Chicken

I don't even remember what I'm typing about, heh...

Oh just some VDI propaganda. Of course you feel this way, you're a moderator here at VDI central.

Nashoba,

I've seen a lot of posts here from the moderators, and I think you are way off base. Because they are not quick to condemn a company that may be having some bad times does not mean that they are pro anyone. VDI has a track record of providing excellent service. If they are having problems now, and trying to improve those problems, that should be interpreted as a sign that they are trying to continue that record.

I've said it before, its easy to be a great host when everything is going well, its harder to be a great host, when things are going wrong, and VDI is still trying to be that great host, rather than hiding in the corner.

Do you have a server here ?

Before you Judge anything, you have to have a server here.

You scream cuss about saying VDI sucks, and how bad things are. The Problems are getting solved, and everyone will resume to normal operations. Did I say somewhere that we were perfect ?

Are you upset that they choose to stay here even after all the network issues ? I`m lost a bit here, all the people that are screaming are not VDI clients, or want to be VDI clients.

Whats going on here??

Im not a VDI client and to be honest have no interest in becoming one.

I think VDI has some good things going, just not a fan of Cpanel, and actually the prices are a little over priced.

I would rather go into a carrier neutral facility. It gives you more options in regards to backbone providers and redundancy, but thats me.

Uuallan, or whatever Genuity definatly was not the company to close the doors for new clients.

In regards to expansion and what not, I just find it interesting that the doors need to be shut. I mean this is something that could have been seen months ago and preperations should be made in advance. All companies that I know of look to suceed, and expand. Expansion options should be in place.

I mean if I was a shareholder I would be pretty pissed. Thats a month of new revenue not coming in.

Overall I think VDI has some interesting things going on, just wouldnt use them for hosting, but thats as I said me...

Joe

Everybody has outages and problems.... few companies actually care enough to fix them......

Sometimes a company has to slow things down, to get their issues sorted out... which isn't a problem for an already profiting company.....

Originally posted by Peeps

In response to your question, I would rather deal with a datacenter that properly manages growth. It is apparent that you learned very little from your constant outages last year, and missed a prime opportunity to address some issues that could have used the attention. The best companies are those that are nimble enough to deal with change and continually focus on process improvement, not those that stop taking new business for a bit while they get their house in order - and then have to do it again the following year, and the year after that, and the year after that. "Growing pains" is the scapegoat trotted out by almost every company in situations like this, and is just another term for poor planning.

Just think. You're getting all of this advice and commentary for free instead of paying the usual fees that I would get. Are you open enough to listen to others who do this sort of thing for a living, or are you destined to be like every other company out there? The problem with company representatives who feel the need to always defend themselves from outside observation is that they are not outside observers and can't (or don't) see the need for constant, consistent reevaluation.

You usually get paid for this? I'd like that job! As for the people closing their doors, instead of expanding, that's not at all what I meant. VDI is planning to expand to offer different services, and until there's more staff and things settled in that aspect, any new client's (or at the usual pace of signups), is being put on hold, so other things don't take up too much time or become less of a priority. Sometimes, on a large(r) scale business, you have to not shoot yourself in the foot. Plan things and do them right. If VDI started out as a huge NOC to begin with, they'd have been prepaired for everything and not put the d-server stuff onhold (which is only a benefit for all hosted on VDI's NOC anyway), so I don't know what there is to complain about, unless you're wanting to set up a server at VDI right now?

I mean, isn't this an indication of change, for the better, if any indication of anything? It's not easy to be clear about plans and reasons for things, without giving too much information, I imagine, and I imagine VDI isn't wanting to discuss their business strategy openly just yet in public. My point is, this is only a sign of improvement and I can respect that and I think you could maybe try and see it for that too, and complain after the fact if it's not the result. Give the company a chance to improve, make it's changes and not be reckless about it and find out what happens. It might seem rash to hold off on new d-servers, but it's only a good idea for many reasons. Some things also happen fast, and take time to set up. Holding off on other things allows the opportunity to get other things done faster. Well, that's how I look at it.

It`s only 3 weeks, we are hiring admins, and adding many new services.

The decision is basicly a valid one.

1:All new clients need at least 2 - 5 days of startup support.

2:When the site opens up again, there will be a new look and feel. Better comunication and better support. VDI needs to have all this in place to grow to the next level.

3. There will be another VDI special when we reopen the doors. New Packages and a new type of support frame.

The new lines will be in as well as the equipment upgrades.

The new admins need to get settled in a bit, don`t want new clients calling every 15 mins waiting for the server to get built while we are allready working on many things to repair the situation allready in place.

Im not taking new orders while current clients are still placing orders on servers and upgrades while we are fixing the network.

Either way we still get another 50 - 100 servers added in the next 3 weeks.

There is nothing at all that makes this invalid nor bad business.

Sigh. Allan, you're smarter than this. I know it, I've seen your other posts.

XO stopped selling in some cities because of other companies' capacities, not their own. They have no control over that. Orders for PT Cruisers are not stopped entirely just because production is behind. Likewise, orders for memory are not halted just because the supply is low. Whatever company you might be thinking of, it was definitely not Genuity. As you point out, it's irrelevant since the slaim has already been made that it is not about capacity. Chicken tossed that into the mix, which is how we got where we are right now.

It's still unfathomable to me how a business could be so lacking in vision that the entirety of new direct orders must be halted. And Bill, you might rethink yourself before you jump down Gavin's throat for making an observation and berate him for stating his opinion.

Does every point have to be explained in excruciating detail to some people here? Tim, you, like others, including Bill, have missed the point again. Trying to insult me for what I do for a living earns you no points with me (and yes, I do get paid to do these sorts of things, cleaning up messes and offering advice). The point is this, for those people who are just not getting it:

This is not about whatever VDI's plan might be. It is about their lack of preparation in what could be seen a mile down the road by anyone with decent business sense. It is about them not capitalizing on issues that arose last year and addressing secondary issues regarding growth and capacity planning. These are the things that smart companies do, continually. I think it's fine they are looking at themselves and looking to improve things. I would never recommend to any of my clients that they just stop taking new direct clients so they can regroup, especially if they had good opportunities to see what was coming and a prime opportunity to address multiple issues at a point when their service was suffering anyway.

The constant defensiveness and bandwagon activity at this forum tends to be mind-numbingly tedious after awhile. It's no wonder some people vanish, never to be seen again.

I ve agreed with you the whole way through this.


You got your head on straight.

A good company is constantly preparing for the next step.

Not closing doors.


JOe

I`m not jumping down throats here at all, just saying overall. VDI didn`t stop production at all, business is still in place, not taking a handfull of new clients is definly in order.

In house growth is still tremendous, while we see people demanding for better communication, we need to provide it.

VDI had no idea that it was going to grow 20 times over in 4 months. We have had orders where, there were 20 servers dropped off by UPS, with a note saying, set this up and a cashiers Check along with it.

It nearly impossible to see 6 months in the future in this business. who would have thought that North point would go bankrupt, PSI just around the corner and about 20 others that are merging to build up the books to survive.

Those who do survive need to get in gear and maintain the client shifts of those who go under. My prediction is the MOM and POP datacenters will succeed and the bigboys will fall into tough times. Untill the stock market dust settles, there will be no funding, and very unlikly chance to get a bank loans. So Business need to make sure the service is there and client pricing covers all cost. So I expect most major datacenters will be raising prices to accomedate the reality of maintaining the business.

Originally posted by Peeps
Does every point have to be explained in excruciating detail to some people here? Tim, you, like others, including Bill, have missed the point again. Trying to insult me for what I do for a living earns you no points with me (and yes, I do get paid to do these sorts of things, cleaning up messes and offering advice). The point is this, for those people who are just not getting it:

This is not about whatever VDI's plan might be. It is about their lack of preparation in what could be seen a mile down the road by anyone with decent business sense. It is about them not capitalizing on issues that arose last year and addressing secondary issues regarding growth and capacity planning. These are the things that smart companies do, continually. I think it's fine they are looking at themselves and looking to improve things. I would never recommend to any of my clients that they just stop taking new direct clients so they can regroup, especially if they had good opportunities to see what was coming and a prime opportunity to address multiple issues at a point when their service was suffering anyway.

The constant defensiveness and bandwagon activity at this forum tends to be mind-numbingly tedious after awhile. It's no wonder some people vanish, never to be seen again.

I never asked or needed you to explain anything in any detail. I didn't miss your point, you've simply missed mine. I never defended anyone or anything, because I didn't see anything to defend, I was just trying to be clear about it -- since obviously not everyone has knowledge of the reasons, as I have mentioned. It was that simply that and nothing more. I also wasn't insulting you, but I didn't see you offer any advice or suggestion, other then, to do as you usually do and simply post solely in protest of VDI.

I only saw you complain, I wasn't talking about consulting. Perhaps the time you spend complaining about VDI, you can spend suggesting a means for improvements at VDI? Certainly that's what you'd be paid for, not simply complaining and saying that's what you usually get paid for. I tell you, I'd be rich if that were true. This was my point. You have enough concern to point these things out, I'm simply saying to give a company a chance to improve, unless you *want* to continue to just complain. Maybe actually suggest something for it to improve enough, to where you won't have the need or urge to complain? I mean, you'll likely find that you agree on many things about planning and the aspects to it and at least be reassured that something is being done in a positive manner.

This is what I mentioned and solely mentioned, not an insult, and that you should perhaps expect some changes, wait for them suggest them and respect that the changes are being implemented. If you don't believe that's what's intended, then you may have misunderstood. This is possible and not offensive to you, it's just that none of us know fully what the other is planning or doing, unless we ask. You can't expect a company to go into great detail about their business plans. You surely don't want to keep knocking VDI, right? Why not do whatever you need to, to get a satisfactory answer? This seems odd being so intent to continue to state the things you have about VDI, when you've never been and never will be a client of them.

Further, that no matter what VDI does or plans, you continue to say how it's not a good thing. If VDI does nothing, you complain. If they plan or do something, you complain. Is there any graceful way out of that or to avoid it, especially when you've made no other effort to genuinely suggest anything other than how bad it all is? So, no, I don't "get your point". Anyway, seeing that I don't get paid to argue, I'll leave it at that, it's nothing personal, although it seems it is for you? Come on, people that know me, at least, know that I wouldn't be saying this, unless I believed VDI had good intentions and were doing what they can to improve.

Just be reasonable about it, or everyone's wasting time explaining things, when you are sold on one idea and only convey biased opinions about things that, no matter what, you're not going to change your feelings about. This fact is noted and archives numerous times on this board, we get the point. Let them make the changes and improve, we'll go from there. I'm sure any constructive comments, suggestions, etc. will be taken into consideration. Saying "VDI sucks" isn't helpful to anyone or anything that's reasonable to seek consultation fees for. I'm sure you can be good enough to wait and see, before you make statements in regards to the outcome that none of us know yet. As for assumptions about why, if you don't believe or agree with what people state, there's no reason to continue and discuss this and the point is moot.

I`m not jumping down throats here at all, just saying overall.

(From a previous post, addressed to Gavin)
Originally posted by William
Do you have a server here ?

Before you Judge anything, you have to have a server here.

You scream cuss about saying VDI sucks, and how bad things are. The Problems are getting solved, and everyone will resume to normal operations. Did I say somewhere that we were perfect ?

Are you upset that they choose to stay here even after all the network issues ? I`m lost a bit here, all the people that are screaming are not VDI clients, or want to be VDI clients.

Whats going on here??

My point stands. You have crawled down the throat of someone making an observation and stating an opinion. It still looks bad, no matter how you try to backpedal. Honor appears to be a forgotten word for many companies these days. So is the word grace.

It is not impossible to see six months in advance, or a year in advance, even in a volatile industry like hosting. NorthPoint, PSI, eFront: all slam dunks if you can read a financial sheet. Given your apparent lack of understanding, I'd not accept your theories on who will be failing next. It likely will not be the large NOCs. If anything, it will be the mid sized NOCs like yours that will go under, if any do. Poor planning, poor execution, poor vision, and mostly a quite volatile customer case will see to that.

Tim: I am not complaining about VDI, no matter what they do. In fact, I have already said that if they come out of this with a better handle on their business that it will be a good thing, so I have no idea what you've been reading. I certainly have not said that doing nothing is a good or bad thing. Doing nothing is definitely not in anyone's interest. I am pointing out things that should be obvious to anyone intent on creating a world class business. There is a distinct lack of business planning here that should be apparent, and it makes people hesitant to engage in business with companies that display it. I have indicated certain things that VDI should have addressed quite a bit ago (planning adequately for future growth, for instance). In other threads, I have already commented on things VDI could do, at a minimum, to create a better image for itself in public forums, since Bill insists on participating here. Would you really have me conjecture as to how they should position themselves in their industry without any knowledge of the financials behind them? I haven't seen them, nor do I care to. Nor do I post solely in protest of VDI. You'll note that I'm not exactly making friends left and right in this forum, so I probably should not count on people jumping to my defense here or making an effort to read what I've written instead of the perceived insults they'd rather see, since that seems to be the general sway of this particular forum. You and I are of the same cloth, Tim. Blunt. Sometimes wordy (you more than me, I suspect). But really after only one thing: truth. Clarity. Solutions. What could be wrong with that?

What would make VDI better in your opinion at this point.

After may 1st VDI never went down again for 10 years, is this the only complaint ?

For starters, you could drop the sarcasm.

Originally posted by klisis
Originally posted by Peeps
Smart companies plan for growth so that their capacity is never outstripped by demand and so they don't have to resort to measures like shutting off the new customer pipeline.

I disagree.

I agree with his disagreement :)

I think it's not possible to judge how fast a host will grow. In the past we have seen some hosts rise extremely fast and some dwindle. Of course a company can make every effort to have room and the resources for rapid growth but sometimes growth just gets the best of you.

Regards,

Mike

You know, I was going to stay out of this, but... I've seen enough armchair quarterbacking here to make me nauseous.

This is a very new and very unpredictable industry. Claims that anybody should be able to foretell what will happen a year or even six months from now are ludicrous. I don't know Bill, and I've never worked with VDI. But it seems to me like halting new orders while growth is being dealt with is a very honorable thing to do for a company that cares about its customers.

To everyone in the thread that seems to think they can do it so much better: well, go out and do it! Make a killing! If you know so much better than Bill, why aren't you out there crushing VDI with a better company? It's real easy to look on something from the outside and say you could do it better. But until you go out there and do it, you're just blowing smoke.

Disagree all you like. It's entirely possible to track and plan for growth, even in hosting. Other companies large and small do it all the time, and do it well. Note that we are not reading about *****, Communitech, Catalog, Pair, or Alabanza stopping all new direct clients, despite other problem they might have. Why do you suppose that is? Because they have the infrastructure (and not just network infrastructure) in place to deal with growth, even if it jumps their trends.

Originally posted by Peeps
Disagree all you like. It's entirely possible to track and plan for growth, even in hosting. Other companies large and small do it all the time, and do it well. Note that we are not reading about *****, Communitech, Catalog, Pair, or Alabanza stopping all new direct clients, despite other problem they might have. Why do you suppose that is? Because they have the infrastructure (and not just network infrastructure) in place to deal with growth, even if it jumps their trends.


Hmm, might this be a reason why they are having so many problems?

Just something to think about,

Mike

To whom are you referring? It's not clear.

Originally posted by Peeps
Disagree all you like. It's entirely possible to track and plan for growth, even in hosting. Other companies large and small do it all the time, and do it well. Note that we are not reading about *****, Communitech, Catalog, Pair, or Alabanza stopping all new direct clients, despite other problem they might have. Why do you suppose that is? Because they have the infrastructure (and not just network infrastructure) in place to deal with growth, even if it jumps their trends.


Here you state that you have never seen *****, Communitech, Catalog, Pair, or Albanza stopping sales. You also say "despite other problems they might have".

I am stating that because they have not stopped sales and therefore continued growing may have contributed to other problems they may have experienced.

Travis: Very well spoken, my sentiments exactly.

I don't really care if it was "a lack of vision" on VDI's part--as far as I'm concerned, I see temporarily suspending acceptance of new accounts as VDI trying to serve their existing customers as best as possible under their current circumstance. As Travis said, an honorable thing.

I have a feeling that if VDI didn't put a temporary freeze on new accounts and someone posted a message complaining about slow setup on their new server, the same people complaining about VDI here would be criticizing them for *not* putting a hold on accepting new accounts. Just speculation.

i think its a great idea to slow down business for a while due to reorganization. its not like they are shut down completely. if you want a box, you can still get on through hosts like venturesonline, wizardshosting, jaguarpc and so on. they stopped taking new customers who purchase through them directly, renting out the racks and stuff. its a great idea for them to focus on getting the network back up to bar while still allowing current customers the abilty to get servers.

That is exactly right. Instead of overloading themselves and causing potential problems which could result with customers leaving and bad mouthing the company, why not just stop accepting new customers. Im sure that any potential client if they are really interested in your service will patiently wait, if not they will likely move on to the next provider. Sure you will lose a sale, but you will not have had an extra load that may have caused a bad reputation for your company because of problems that arise from overloading yourself.

During the time I've spent here at WHT, I have never ever seen a post directed towards a potential customer complaining because somebody is not accepting customers.

In my opinion it is a much better decision to be honest with your potential customers and state that you will not accept their business yet because your company needs to upgrade and/or reorganize due to growth, and in order for you to provide your potential customers this period of time that you do not accept their business is required to keep current and future customers happy. With that said, I think that any potential customers who really wish to be with a certain provider will look at that statement and respect what the provider has done and it will likely make the customer think that the company really does care about them, and this is a very very good thing for you and your customers.

Regards,

Mike

hmmmm..... im lost... please tell me again, what is your argument is Peeps?

VDI is upgrading there NOC, so they dun want the added pressure of adding new cleints simultaneously, who will face some amoout of downtime because of the upgrades.. is this wrong?? or is this sensible? it makes perfect sense to stop accepting new cleints, until the upgrades are complete...

so why is this so tuff to understand?? they are growing.. they are upgrading.. i dun see anything wrong!

(1) if VDI were put in the company of *****, Communitech, et al as mentioned, I would not WANT to do business with them. I left ***** precisely because they do NOT have the systems in place to take care of their customer base. I would be deeply saddened to see VDI go down the same road.

Peeps, we all understand now that you don't like VDI and you think VDI has failed to exercise proper planning etc. Fine. Now go away or start your own thread. I am getting tired of trying to figure out whether you are the pot or the kettle.



(2) Contrary to the assertions here, vendors can AND DO freeze new account orders all the time. I am a specialty gift retailer "in real life" and, countless times, I have been unable to (a) open a new account; (b) order a new product; or (c) order an old product -- all because the vendor decided that's simply how they were going to do it.

Examples:
i. Ty Inc -- did not accept New Accounts from 1997-2000. I happened to have an account already so it didn't apply to me. When my account was cancelled in error, I couldn't open a new one. Was I po'd? Yes. Could I do a darn thing about it? Nope.

ii. Boyds Collection -- limits new accounts. Does not allow the ordering of tons of products by the majority of their accounts. You have to be a resin dealer to order 80% of their line, and BTW, resin dealerships are very exclusive. I have been on a waiting list for years. Publicly traded, very successful business, has been doing it this way since inception.

iii. Russ Berrie -- does not accept new orders for products that are not currently in the warehouse. Publicly traded, very successful business, has been doing it this way since their ordering system has been automated.

iv. Ganz -- does not accept new orders for products that are not currently in the warehouse.

v. Caspari, American Traditions, Bradford Baskets, Colonial Candle, Christopher Radko, Yankee Candle, Dept 56, and many other well-established businesses do NOT allow new accounts depending on location, saturation, market conditions and/or a retailer's mix.

Manufacturers and vendors freeze new client accounts and new orders every single day. It's very, very common. It's also a commitment to the current customer base. I can say, as a Boyds retailer, that I am well-cared-for by my rep because she's not overloaded with too many accounts, nor is she such a greenhorn that she doesn't know the line, product, rules, etc. By limiting their business they've made sure that I am 100% in their court, even if their product didn't sell hardly at all this weekend in my shop. :) I still have the faith.

Just my personal experiences from the real business world.......
Direct flames to your mirror. ;)

:D Bailey

Originally posted by Peeps
Tim: I am not complaining about VDI, no matter what they do. In fact, I have already said that if they come out of this with a better handle on their business that it will be a good thing, so I have no idea what you've been reading. I certainly have not said that doing nothing is a good or bad thing. Doing nothing is definitely not in anyone's interest. I am pointing out things that should be obvious to anyone intent on creating a world class business. There is a distinct lack of business planning here that should be apparent, and it makes people hesitant to engage in business with companies that display it. I have indicated certain things that VDI should have addressed quite a bit ago (planning adequately for future growth, for instance). In other threads, I have already commented on things VDI could do, at a minimum, to create a better image for itself in public forums, since Bill insists on participating here. Would you really have me conjecture as to how they should position themselves in their industry without any knowledge of the financials behind them? I haven't seen them, nor do I care to. Nor do I post solely in protest of VDI. You'll note that I'm not exactly making friends left and right in this forum, so I probably should not count on people jumping to my defense here or making an effort to read what I've written instead of the perceived insults they'd rather see, since that seems to be the general sway of this particular forum. You and I are of the same cloth, Tim. Blunt. Sometimes wordy (you more than me, I suspect). But really after only one thing: truth. Clarity. Solutions. What could be wrong with that?

Fair enough, I personally don't choose to support or demonize anyone's statements, based on whom they are. Some people I get along with and some I don't. I suspect the same is true of anyone. However, I may have misunderstood your posts, surely. I stand behind whatever I believe to be true and honest. That said, I think that many of us here, already know that VDI did not initially start out as a large NOC or even a NOC at all. VDI grew in fractions. VDI has kept up with the expansion(s) this far, as these improvements and additions have been justified, I imagine.

If VDI didn't make a specific aim or plan to cater to such a massive amount of servers, then it's fairly easy to assume it wasn't poor planning, but likely the fact that they didn't intend to go that route. Now that the other route and more expansion is immediately obtainable, VDI has a choice to stick with a plan of only catering to certain amounts of servers, or expanding to accommodate more, if they choose to. It appears VDI has chosen to, and not only that, but offer other services as well, with new additions to staff and equipment. Such plans can't be easily made, or reasonably planned, until that opportunity is there. It's just got here, so VDI is doing what it can to accommodate, yet still not just go overboard with it and just say "yes" to every opportunity, if it's not within their immediate ability to best provide with the best quality.

I find that admirable, rather than overselling for shear profit. This is why I'm all for and behind the change, not to defend or excuse anyone or anything. Any company, including VDI gets to a point where they are faced with 3 options. Continue at the rate in which you've planned and can provide the best quality service at, grow as you're able to (financially, support and staff, equipment and the like -- which is not something you can always plan to go that far, until the opportunity is there), or try it with what you have, which will only result in poor service, not enough staff and never improve anything... or, sell off or fold the business. Obviously VDI has no intention to stop, so they have to go along, according to what the situation is at the time.

Often, when presented with new or unplanned opportunities, you have to step back, take a break look at things, get things going properly and get things prepared and settled and improved -- before you can realistically venture onward. I tell you this from personal experience. I've had some very large paying offers presented to me, but couldn't realistically accept them, due to pervious commitments or the inability to plan in a manner to allow me to take advantage of the opportunity. Not enough places can just stop accepting new clients, to calm things down enough to work out a business plan and idea and implement it, without losing money. Like it or not, VDI has a loyal client base, and they can afford to do things that other NOC's can't, and that is stop any new business for just long enough to get things settled and planned and together, so they can more efficiently move onto the next stage and more expediently in the outcome as well.

However, the fact does remain, there should be some suggestions, since you are involved and actively so, you might as well offer what you can, if you'd be incline to do so, and suggest a realistic means of improving things, to whatever extent possible, be it effort, planning, etc. having nothing to really do with any financial aspect, there surely is something that is bothering you and you can suggest an alternative or better means to go about accomplishing such tasks or outcomes? I hope that made sense... :-)

You sure got alot on your mind and a lot of time.

That last post is like a thesis for a term paper.

I started reading it, and im like the heck with this, maybe you need some help...

Just a suggestion

Dont me to be personal, but thats a huge post

Joe

Tim, very well said.

:D B.

Joe, nothing personal but, you obviously haven't been around here long. Tim has had much, much, much longer. And they weren't all so well-crafted.
:)


:D B.

Originally posted by JBIZ718
You sure got alot on your mind and a lot of time.

That last post is like a thesis for a term paper.

I started reading it, and im like the heck with this, maybe you need some help...

Just a suggestion

Dont me to be personal, but thats a huge post

Joe

Note his title :)

What is that suppost to mean???

Joe

Ive been around enough to know that Tim goes off.

But even when I got scorched, he didnt go that far.

Joe

Originally posted by JBIZ718
What is that suppost to mean???

Joe

His title... instead of Web Hosting Guru and such... he is "Typing Addict".

He makes long posts.... he types a lot in those long posts... he is addicted to typing.

Thanks

This comment, specifically the end:

He makes long posts.... he types a lot in those long posts... he is addicted to typing

Is one of the funniest things Ive heard in a while. I can just picture someone saying that..


Joe

Originally posted by JBIZ718
You sure got alot on your mind and a lot of time.

That last post is like a thesis for a term paper.

I started reading it, and im like the heck with this, maybe you need some help...

Just a suggestion

Dont me to be personal, but thats a huge post

Joe

Thank you, Joe, I'm imfamous for huge things. I have no shame about it either. Need help? Are you trying to tell me you found my medication? Come on, man, don't be JoNeSin' it, bro! Thanks for the comment, it was helpful.

Originally posted by JBIZ718
Thanks

This comment, specifically the end:

He makes long posts.... he types a lot in those long posts... he is addicted to typing

Is one of the funniest things Ive heard in a while. I can just picture someone saying that..


Joe

Yeah, I guess people miss that. Don't lose sleep over me though, I'm improving every day. Baby-steps, they are. Eventually, I'll be typing things like "how r u 2day" and "c u l8r" and then I'll been weened onto the bottle. It all takes time, just give me time... I'll get by.

Originally posted by Peeps
Disagree all you like. It's entirely possible to track and plan for growth, even in hosting. Other companies large and small do it all the time, and do it well. Note that we are not reading about *****, Communitech, Catalog, Pair, or Alabanza stopping all new direct clients, despite other problem they might have. Why do you suppose that is? Because they have the infrastructure (and not just network infrastructure) in place to deal with growth, even if it jumps their trends.


I will have to agree with the others on this one, Peeps.

As a small business man myself, let me put it this way :

1. When you start up a new business requiring funding from banks, are they more likely to give you a loan to help you out if you project small, solid gains, or ambitious 1200% growth (a la Bill's claims)? Bankers would laugh you out of the office if you presented in your PowerPoint presentation that you projected 1000% growth due to the large client base (i.e. the entire population) or simply because it's "The Net". (and there is enough negative sentiment in the investors/banking fields to suggest dotcoms and businesses without solid, economically viable and proven profitable models simply won't get anything, as compared to 12/24 months ago). The banks may be a bit behind the times (IMHO, in my local area they are) but at least economically they're lending with more caution.

2. Despite your best efforts and intentions, a host may not succeed (we've already seen enough examples around here) and they eventually shut down or get swallowed up by other companies. That is going to happen in any field, but most particularly the cut-throat field of web hosting.

3. I did quite a bit of consulting work for a local e-commerce company (which is incidentally still going strong) which stopped accepting clients at one stage during the hype of the dot-coms simply because we had too much business and we felt we would not be able to provide a sufficiently high quality of service for our present and new customers. We did in fact see this coming, but we simply didn't have the infrastructure to cope with it because it meant putting on staff at short notice and asking them to cram in an intensive crash-course on our software, which would have possible reduced the level of service we were able to provide to our local community.

A successful company (of course, the definition of successful depends on your own views and will vary partially from one to the other) does not forsake quality for mass sales figures and/or profits. I'm sure you agree that at least one or two of the companies you mentioned has tended towards the latter in the last few years.


Damn, I just wrote an entire essay too. Oh well, bugger that. ;)

Remarkable. I had considered typing up something longer here, especially in regard to Bailey's examples and that same post that seems to indicate that I am somehow not allowed to have an opinion on things, but decided not to bother because people insist on deliberately misunderstanding things and not reading what was posted.

You people all have my sincerest apologies for having the nerve to offer up something that goes contrary to the prevailing opinion of the current fair-haired provider. Enjoy your insular little world.

Originally posted by Peeps
Remarkable. I had considered typing up something longer here, especially in regard to Bailey's examples and that same post that seems to indicate that I am somehow not allowed to have an opinion on things, but decided not to bother because people insist on deliberately misunderstanding things and not reading what was posted.

You people all have my sincerest apologies for having the nerve to offer up something that goes contrary to the prevailing opinion of the current fair-haired provider. Enjoy your insular little world.

Well, because it was an opinion, everyone was free to jump. You don't expect your opinion, if it is something that people don't accept, to be accepted without any..trouble, do you?

Peeps, of course you're welcome to have and express your own opinion.

I am also welcome to express MY opinion, and so is everyone else. No one person is bigger, better, or more legit than anyone else here. Everyone gets a turn.

Certainly if you feel it necessary to post an argument/rebuttal to every dissenting opinion in the thread, that's your prerrogative, but for heavens sake, this is getting old. You HAVE expressed your opinion, ad nauseum, about this one issue. Over and over and over! Claiming you have not taken ample opportunity to share your thoughts, in this instance, would be absolutelyl ridiculous.

And when others disagree with YOU, you have done nothing more than accuse them of missing the point or call them names. News flash: posting an opinion is not going to enlighten all readers to see things your way. Most of the frequenters of this board are self-sufficient forward thinkers who don't fit the sheep mentality... they WILL disagree and they will say why. The question is, can you take THEIR opinions and learn something from them?

With all this said, I must point out, it would be considerate of us to stop wasting William's time and energy. This man has a lot to get done in the next three weeks and whether a handful of non-clients like it or not, is not the issue. He has bigger fish to fry than these few flies buzzing at the proverbial screen. So let's please let the guy get his job done. He is putting a lot of energy into his business and was trying to put "customers first" by keeping us in the loop. I think this thread has really taken advantage of and spoiled the intent.


:D Bailey

... And unless this thread begins to go somewhere in a slightly more constructive section, it will be thrown to the sharks.

uuallan
I've seen a lot of posts here from the moderators, and I think you are way off base. Because they are not quick to condemn a company that may be having some bad times does not mean that they are pro anyone.

I think Allan put this better than I could have. I don't have a server there, and just because I don't bash VDI, doesn't mean I am a VDI cheerleader.

I guess people have their own ideas of what VDI is... or should be.

Though I don't work directly with VDI, my company is hosted there. As a small (very small at this point) business owner I feel like I need to place my opinion also (yes yet another one).

I come from a long line of business owners, and without fail I've seen in several industries whether Internet based or not. What I'm talking about is the people in here that could "run VDI without any problems." You guys comment on not accepting customers being a bad thing? Then you say that the growth of a business can be judged 6 months into the future? That's very amusing.

First of all, Peeps, if that is true that you can judge the approximate growth of a business 6 months in advance, you wouldn't be here, you would be a millionaire. Certainly if that is the case and you have that special ability, then you must own stock in Microsoft, AOL (which you purchased directly before the Time-Warner Merger Announcment) and several other multi-billion dollar businesses.

There is no such thing as "telling" how much your business is going to grow. Find an Internet Consultant, in fact find the LEADING Web Hosting Consultant, and ask him what the odds are that a business will grow 10/15/20 times larger in 6 months. Find ANY BUSINESS that has that kind of expectation of growth.

Assessing the growth of a business includes several factors, including Market share, competition, competitive prices ect. ect. No one can be "right on", and you won't find any consultant that will give you a growth rate like that.

If you plan too big, then your company has a higher risk to fail. If you plan too small there is always room to grow.

Well heres my 2 cents...I heard back about a month ago when the outage hit that VDI was at 90% capacity and this was from an internal source! So this is TOTAL BULLSH*T....I as well as alot of other people have lost significant amounts of business because of the ongoing issues with VDI...

Hey can you change his title to total idiot?

More power to ya, Bill (and VDI). Although I do business with VDI indirectly (and yes I was also very upset when the "switch" was going on and all the downtime) I have to say "I'm glad you've taken the initiative." The Web Hosting world, is a strange world, and regardless of what anyone else says, you do what you say you're going to do, and over the next few years; there are no problems, who will even remember this (or other threads) that were steeped in negativity.

Just make sure you follow through with what you say. ;)


Yo, JBIZ718
In another thread, you had said you were going to come up with specifics on "your" product. How you doing on that? Comparing "what could be" to "what is" -- is known as dreaming, ya know. :)

I post enough threads where I dont recall that, but learn some english.

I mean that doesnt even make sense. If your going to quote me, get exactly what I said.


So i dont have to think of you as a idiot, before you type get your information right.

Joe

I'm sorry. I didn't realize your posts meant so little to you. Are you going for quantity, not quality?

I see you get a little "touchy" when someone generalizes something you've said. I have to wonder why? You don't have a problem talking about others, in a generalized way.

As I was not quoting you but just talking in general, I had made comment (in a past thread you were in) that as one salesperson to another, the approach & qualify (of your posts about your coming service) was over, and it was time to get to the "actual service" that you are supposedly working on putting together. You had agreed with me and said your "service" was coming, soon.

My point is, ever since you've starting posting here, you always seem to find fault with "anybodies - anything" and keep talking about how you are working on this "big deal" with these "big companies" to offer such great Web services. But all you do is talk. Someone that has an established business and is working to improve it, definitely has more on the ball than someone who just keeps talking about a business they might have -- someday.

You really should remember what you say to people -- it may come back to haunt you. ;)

play nice people.. dun make me close this thread...

Last time I checked: Free Speach was still around.

In regards to what I say.

I dont revolve my life around this board. You might, I do not.

At the end of the day, I always wish everyone the best of luck, and dont take things personally.

In regards to what Im doing, things do take time. If I could speed up my process, I would, but I cant, so there is nothing I can do.

You might not be able to comprehend this, its ok, I understand.

In regards to my business. I currently have one. My company is alive and striving, just like many others. You might not understand that either. What is taking longer is are new business model, which we are trying to launch, but are doors remain open.

Joe

Originally posted by JBIZ718
In regards to what Im doing, things do take time. If I could speed up my process, I would, but I cant, so there is nothing I can do.By golly, that sounds exactly like the position VDI is in, doesn't it.

Originally posted on first page of this thread by JBIZ718
Maybe this shows the weakness in the infrustructure, and or problems.One person's weakness is another person's strength, isn't it.

Originally posted by JBIZ718
In regards to my business. I currently have one. My company is alive and striving, just like many others. You might not understand that either. What is taking longer is are new business model, which we are trying to launch, but are doors remain open.As there is no link to a Web site and your business -- or is it this "new" business model -- is supposed to be a Web based business, I can only presume your business doesn't have a Web site. Because if you did have a Web related business, which you keep alluding to, as being so much better or will be so much better; someday, I'm sure you'd be happy to invite people to visit your business through it's Web site.

Maybe you prefer people "not" to visit your site (if there is one) because you make such despairing remarks and seem to enjoy angering people; all under an assumed name of course. The platform you use, to make your pontifications, is very weak. Maybe we should treat your words, like leaves blowing in the wind; they have no weight and are a minor annoyance - at best.

People that live in glass houses, shouldn't throw rocks.

Just a thought.

Since you are a absolute Moron, and obviously have your head up your a**, you would know that I do have a website.

My companies name cannot be said on this forum.

Since you are talking out of your azz, i wont feed a idiot like yourself.

Joe

I see your "true colors" have come out, and I now know -- how to treat your posts. And you have now crossed the line, mentioned by kunel.

The first BB script/program to include Kill Files - will make a fortune! :D

My true colors are not to tolerate people to misquote me.

If you are going to say I said something, get it right, dont make up stuff.

Before you mention certain things, like my company, and its url, and why its not here, do your due diligence on the matter. Make sense, dont sound stupid.

I dont appreciate people claiming I said one thing and stating another thing.

If i said something, and you can find it, then thats fine, but done claim something that I did not say.

Treat my posts however you would like, im not here to make you happy.

Joe

Originally posted by JBIZ718
Last time I checked: Free Speach was still around.

It is, but please realize that this is a privately owned public forum, and we do have rules. (Not directed only at Joe). I think it is time to end this thread.

Feel free to disagree, but no, "You're an..." please.