Should there be more or Less?

I mean the latest stats are that there our 16k hosting companies.

Whether Tier 1 or Resellers it doesnt matter, but there has to be space for advertising.

So I ask this board:

Should there be more or Less?

In my opinion, there are already too many hosting directories... however, I think that the number of quality host directories is lower... probably on a ratio of about 1 fairly useful directory for every 15 directories out there. This is part of the problem, a lot of people seem to not check the other directories because they just lack what all of the other's have... be it content or whatever.

If somebody was thinking of bringing another host directory and plans to make it useful then that's great... but it seems there are too many of them who just care about an extra buck.

Regards,

Mike

I agree.

Joe

I agree too. I mean, I only visit about 3 directories myself and they are the best of the best. The rest are basically people trying to make money off of the hosting companies by selling them advertising. Ive even seen some host directories that are just ads, no content, not even a way to add a host. Its gotten alittle crazy for what people will do to bring in a few bucks.

Jim

Do you think that directories are truly unbiased or really driven my marketing dollars?

Cheers,
Seagate

The big ones really consult for themselves and marketing really plays out in the showcase sections and the places were most 'newbie' webmasters go to look for a host. Although, most of the articals the directories post are valid and are unbiased as well as comments from customers. This makes these bigger directories a better place to go to look for a hosting company. Its true that some of the best hosts are actually little and do not have the marketing dollars to spend on big ads that cost millions. This is where the little hosts can get their spot of fame.

Jim

I also agree

Joe

Do you think that a hosting company that pays more money to have ads on a place like Tophost.com is better that a company that pays very little to get on a place like addahost.com or findahost.com?

Cheers,
Seagate

Its really up to the hosting company. A 1,000 banner ad (CPM) give the the same amount of exposer on tophost as they do on addahost. When you purchase this, you know that you are receiving 1,000 people looking at your ads. The only thing that would make difference is if you are purchasing something like showcased host, which gives unlimited impressions. If you want something like this, it would be better to go with a larger directory, since you get a whole lot more views and ultimately lots of clicks. But, this kind of listing costs alot. I know that on hostsearch, these types of listings can reach upto $600/month per little 125x125 ad. You are also listed with about 10 to 30 other hosting companies trying to draw from the same number of viewers. It can either flood you with orders, or leave you dry.

But don't you think the customers that are seaching addahost.com or findahost.com are the customers that are looking for a cheap hosting solutions, where a customer that searches a place like tophost.com or hostindex.com are looking for a more repeatable host.

I mean if you look at the types of hosting companies have banners on findahost.com, they are companies that have hosting solutions under $15.00

Where at hostindex.com or tophost.com you see more ads for hosting companies that have hosting packages at a higher rate.

Just a thought...

Cheers,
Michael

Those are some good Points

Joe

Putting my two cents in :)

I think there are a lot of directories out there. I posted in the Ad section here that there are more than 70 of them. Out of those I would say there are about 5-8 good ones, but I am a little biased.

Everyone makes a good point. Here is what I say, but again I am a little biased.

If you offer $2.00 hosting, look for a directory that has a lot of hosts advertising that offer $2.00 hosting. You will probably get your best return there. If you offer NT hosting, look for a directory that has a lot of NT hosts advertising there. See what I mean.

You also need to find a directory that has a high conversion ratio. If you do not have a program to track the traffic generated from advertisements from entry to sale, get one now! This will tell you how well advertising on a site works for you and if you are getting your moneys worth.

Also, look for directories that have repeat advertisers. If you see a site that has 5 different and new advertisers each month, then the site probably does not convert well.

It is very hard to attract good traffic to a hosting directory, or even a hosting company for that matter. What a lot of people don't know is that hosting directories cannot just advertise everywhere and expect a good return for their advertisers, it really takes a lot of work.

Take Care,

Originally posted by seagate

Where at hostindex.com or tophost.com you see more ads for hosting companies that have hosting packages at a higher rate.


I know that the smaller companies (i am in one myself) are very open to these host directories. You can find that on tophost.com alot of major hosting companies, since they have more money to spend. Still, evertime the smaller companies get some money together, they do tend to go with the smaller directories, since it costs alot less. This could be due to the TOO HIGH prices that major hosting directories charge. I used to to some advertising for a sister site on Hostsearch.com, and they charge $24.00/CPM and a minimun of 10 CPM.

Also, the fact that places like hostsearch, tophost, webhosters and others make you pay for a huge number of ads at a time, bring the litter companies away. A small host doesn't need 10,000 banner ads all at once. One time, I put my 10,000 ads on hostsearch and they were used up in about 5 hours! During that time, I was over ran with orders and it took about 2-3 days to clear it up.

This is why the smaller directories that do not require you to purchase in large quanties are not that bad. And realize, the ads do not make any difference, a 1,000 ad views on one site are the same as a 1,000 views on another. So the pricing is really off when you come across these directories.

Jim

Originally posted by JBIZ718
Should there be more or Less?

Personally, I'm puzzled as to why a host would ask this. I'm also puzzled as to why Charles has a, "Great, another one!" disposition about them.

Ok, I understand that half of them are worthless as far as actually providing help for someone who is looking for hosting. Some are good, many are worthless.

Aside from that, what you have is someone making a site aimed at people looking for hosting. Hosts get to put their link (and often more than just a link, perhaps a whole page), on the site and it might even result in a sign up. I honestly can't imagine why hosts don't *love* these sites???

Again, I'm not looking at this from the consumers' point of view, but from the hosts' point of view. I just don't get it??? What am I missing here?

Hosts dont like them cause companies like *****s and others have millions to throw away on advertising. So, if you are a host directory, and you know ***** will pay you $200.00 for a small ad, dont you think you will set the charge a $200.00. I mean, put yourself in the position of a host directory owner. If say 10 HUGE hosts like (*****s, HOSTROCKET, and others), are willing to pay you $200.00 for a small ad, wouldnt you set your prices for that ad at $200.00. Well, when they raise that limit, sure ***** can pay that easily, but what about small companies that are just starting out. They need clients as well, but since the price has been set at $200, they can only hope to get the funds to pay for that kind of marketing budget. Also, the hosts that give alot more money, normally make alot more TOP 10 Host lists, as well as Showcased hosts.

Now, Im not saying that hosts hate the hosting directories, they actually can bring alot of traffic, but what Im saying is that they are turning more into just for profit than actually helping the customer looking for hosting.

Jim

All very good points!

Hey Jimb,

Believe it or not, most hosting companies do not throw away money on advertising. I can tell you that most of our advertisers track ad stats from the first page visited to the final sale. They know the conversion rate of referrals/sales. If hosting directories were charging unreasonable rate, they would have no advertisers. Do you think *****, Verio, Rackspace, etc. have bottomless pits of money? Maybe they do, and maybe they don't but I am sure they do not throw away money because they can. They do it because it works.

I do believe in helping smaller companies, but it take money to run a site. Hosting directories are not non-profit organizations. They are here to make money, as are you, and hopefully help some visitors find a host along the way. If a hosting directory were to sell advertising below the cost of what it takes to operate, they would not be around very long. You also have to remember that hosting directories are also competing for the same visitors as hosting companies. It takes a lot of capital.

I do agree that some are turning into profit mongers instead of being a valuable resource, but that is just how the Internet works.

Best,

People people... please...

without hosting directories it would be very difficult for all those hosting company owners to get some clients...

words of mouth? yea maybe when you're talking about 10-20 clients, but you don't get masses just for being nice and providing a good support.

Web hosting directories sare there to give you review, forums, communication between the host - the user and a 3d party - which is very important.

You don't like some directory? so what!! there are other 73 for you to choose from.

Cheers

[Edited by logus on 04-06-2001 at 09:14 PM]

I realize that starting a host directory can cost alot and that running one costs alot as well. But, when you say, "a hosting directory were to sell advertising below the cost of what it takes to operate, they would not be around very long" (MikePalmer), I ask, how much does it cost to run a directory.

I know this much though, Hostsearch receives about 14 Million Page Views per month (or somewhere around that). When they charge 20 advertisers in 6 different Showcased Areas, at $500.00 per ad, they get $60,000 a month. Also, take into consideration that they sell buttons on their site for $3,000 per month. This means that they receive about another $15,000 for those a month. Also, they have the 125x125 banners on the side bar of there site. When I last talked to them, they said these are static, and go for $5,000 per month. They have 4 running right now and that brings in another $20,000. Now, the sponsered links on the site fetch $1,200 per link. They have 3 running right now, which makes $3,600.

$98,600 per month total

Now, that is enough to run a website, pay for bandwidth, and employee people? Keep in mind that the number only reflects a few sections to advertise in. They still have the banner CPMs which start at $24 per CPM, as well as the special sponserships that can reach upto $15,000 per month.

Sorry, but do these prices seem alittle steep for you? They are just like this on all the other directories as well, maybe alittle cheaper, but truely, what hosting company that has 100 clients or less, pay for advertising here and for servers, tech supports, and anything else they might need?

The directories are really just taking from the big companies that don't care where the money is going as long as it brings them unsupecting customers.

Now, I know all host directories aren't like this, and Im sure that MikePalmer has the best intentions in mind. Im just coming from a small hosts persepective here.

Jim

Originally posted by logus

<<MOD NOTE: Thanks Jim (had to edit this though) :)>>


This is the general post section, dont put advertising here please. You can put those in the ads section.

I would take this off before Chicken gets after you.

Jim

[Edited by Chicken on 04-06-2001 at 09:29 PM]

Hey jimb,

Great points but let me expand.

You said based on your calculations that Hostsearch would make about $100,000.00+-/Month if they sold all the spots on their site. What you do not take into consideration is that many of these spots sold with a great discount. We have never sold out our site at full price, and never will. You get companies who purchase large, long-term campaigns and they get great discounts. It's like anything in life, buy bulk get a discount.

Do you know how much money it takes to run a site that generates 14,000,000 pageviews/month. You are talking about the cost of a nice bandwidth bill, your server farm (because you know you cannot just run that on a cobalt), programmers, sales people, network admins, advertising of your site (which alone is about 2/3 of your revenue).

These prices do not seem steep at all. Do you think on a cost/click model that $2.00-$3.00/CPM for highly target visitors who are ready to buy your product is expensive? Look at what the top ads on Goto.com go for, a lot more than this and the traffic in no where near as good as what will come from a directory.

There are directories out there that over charge for advertising, but most of the time I see that is that they don’t have the traffic to deliver. $500.00 for 100 impressions (and I have seen that before), that is high. $2,000-$5,000 for a cost/click of $2.00-$3.00, that is pretty sweet.

Yeah, I agree that it must cost alot for these host directories to keep up and running, but what I am saying is that the directories focus more on just making money than doing what they are supposed to do. I know your place...findwebspace is not like this..(we were going to start a campain there, but we pulled from it to re-organize our company) but anyway.

Even in your place, its filled with referances to these big hosting companies who have major bugdets to waste. And anyone who knows anything about bussiness, knows that these guys like *****s dump millions down the drain and hope to get something back.

Also, Since they are dumping millions into it, the prices raise. I was on *****s site today and saw that they offer the same plans that others do, but for $50/month instead of $9.95/month. This is a direct result of this flow of money that is coming out of the marketing areas. This is evident in other smaller hosting companies as well. I mean, you know that a 100 MB, 5 GIG bandwidth site shouldn't cost someone $24.95/month. Thats stupid, but since the hosting companies have to pay these rates that are on the host directories, the overall price raises.

Just something to consider,

Jim