Hi all,
This is a bit of a vague and rambling question, so please bear with me!
I am wondering if there are many people out there who outsource all their design work. My background is development, and I couldn't design my way out of a wet paper bag. Think etch-a-sketch married with finger painting.
However, I have integrated a good few templates from a designer into a web application that I have developed (e.g. custom CMS). This has been on behalf of a graphic designer who has gotten the contract, but I would like to reverse this so I am the one getting in the work, and using a graphic designer as required.
This is all part-time stuff, though I can fire off emails from my 9-5.
Is it stupid to offer websites without having any of the design skills in-house? Is it borderline dishonest to do so? I wouldn't claim to do the designs, but would say something like "I project manage the process with a range of design companies".
Any thoughts would be great.
thanks,
Eoin

Is it stupid to offer websites without having any of the design skills in-house? Is it borderline dishonest to do so? I wouldn't claim to do the designs, but would say something like "I project manage the process with a range of design companies".
Any thoughts would be great.
thanks,
Eoin
Hi,
I don't think so. I'm in a similar situation to you except, I am a designer and tend to outsource the coding to programmers. It doesn't matter to me whether the coder is in-house or not as long as you have good project management skills then you can pull off a website package without the client having to know your business practice with ease - not to mention that I openly let it be known that I am a one-man operation but a professional to grab the confidence of clients if in any doubt by displaying my portfolio.
This is coming from a freelance designer. I work full time for a company and they have everything in-house which I suppose is more suitable maybe due to larger clients etc but I don't think it's worth the hassle as a freelancer.

Thanks for the reply Star La.
I suppose the big difference is that you can show someone logos / mock-ups and all that stuff first, and then when it's finalised, you can get the developer to do the functionality.
But I reckon that if I can get an initial meeting with a client, I can get enough information to contact some designers to get some drafts done. In my 4 or so days on this site, I've already been really impressed with the designs and templates for sale here, so I think it could be an option.
It just seems a little weird that I will have to outsource the design of my own site, when that's the one of the very things I will be selling!

There is nothing wrong in outsource the design IF you are the responsible for the final product. The designers should elaborate mock-ups based on customer requirements gathered by you and system analysis done by you. And their work should be supervised and approved by you -- no direct contact between designers and customers.

Thanks for that. I would absolutely be the point of contact. The customer would have no contact at all with the designer.
Another sort of related question - is it reasonable to expect that I wouldn't have to credit the designer at all? If I get a template which I turn into a site, would it be reasonable to expect that I can put a button or link pointing to my business?

I think "outsourcing all design" is a fine option, even without the client knowing, as long as you fully guarantee the end product as if it was your own.
-mike

I think "outsourcing all design" is a fine option, even without the client knowing, as long as you fully guarantee the end product as if it was your own.
-mike
Thank you Mike.
I am pretty proficient in (X)HTML, and my CSS knowledge is reasonable. I can use them, just not come up with nice designs. So, I would be able to fix problems with pages on the website. I wouldn't be able to do much with graphics that need changing, but I would have the customer sign off in the first place, so any changes that need doing would hopefully be paid for by the customer, which I could then pass on to the designer.
Does anyone have any thoughts or experience on "site created by"? As far as I am concerned: if I buy a design for a customer, then that gives me the right to call the design my own, and I wouldn't expect to have to credit the designer through HTML comments or any other way. Is this a fair assumption to make?
Thanks again,
Eoin

Eoin, I am in a similar to your situation. There is nothing bad saying that 'I am the project manager and coder and I cooperate with a very good designer to get your job done'. Concerning the button 'created by', my option would be 'Created by [Project Owner-you] with cooperation of [Designer]', assuming that you have a good relationship with the designer. Of course the relationship you have with the designer is very important. If he is a common partner of yours with the works that you do, you can go together, if you don't know him at all, maybe it could be reasonable to sign a contract making you 'full owner' of the design works.

Thanks aseim, good point. I will just have to take it one by one until I build up a relationship with a designer.
Thanks all for useful replies, it's good to hear that what I hope to do isn't completely unworkable!

Does anyone have any thoughts or experience on "site created by"? As far as I am concerned: if I buy a design for a customer, then that gives me the right to call the design my own, and I wouldn't expect to have to credit the designer through HTML comments or any other way. Is this a fair assumption to make?
Sometimes I have to outsource design work - work which I could do myself but just too busy to do it so in this case I would request from designers to not state the work on their portfolio - they charge me an additional fee and that is fine. No credit is given if I outsource.
However if it is a project I collaborate on such as hiring someone to do some 3d animation (something I can't do) then I would credit that person
But in the case of coding work such as PHP/AJAX/MYSQL etc then I tend not to take credit at all but just pay-off the coders for doing the work but make it clear that it is under my company name. Who/what/when did the coding is irrelevant to the client as long as they get what they ask for and the ethics are in place.
Eoin
is it reasonable to expect that I wouldn't have to credit the designer at all? If I get a template which I turn into a site, would it be reasonable to expect that I can put a button or link pointing to my business?
I guess this varies on who you work with.
people outsource to me and most of them require that I do not put the work on my portfolio which is fine but I charge them an additional fee or a premium price simply because my portfolio is my foundation to more work therefore if someone wants to limit it, they must consolidate.
In your situation, if you found the client, made a sale to the client and project managed the website then I don't see why you shouldn't tag it under your name/company. Just make sure you make it be known to the designers that the project is done under YOUR name and they cannot use it on their portfolio to avoid any banter once in the deep end.

Their portfolio wouldn't bother me too much as I would be upfront that an external resource is doing the logo.
Crediting them in the HTML markup or on my site etc would not be an option, and I would also expect to be able to put a picture of the customer's site on mine.
As you said, I'll just have to make this clear upfront to any designers that I end up working with.

I agree with Star La.
I've done my share of outsourcing of work over the years and have always agreed with whoever was doing the work that the end result belonged to my company or my customer. Yes, they designed/coded/whatever it... but it was a job in which they were paid to do.
To me, it's no different than hiring an employee. If you had a team of designers in house you wouldn't put the individual designer's name on the website credits - you put your company name.