Hi all,

The title of this post probably gives it all away, I am looking at both VDI and Alabanza to either colocate or rent a server. I know they are a little more pricy than VDI (even though I cant find their prices at their site) but they do seem to offer a lot more to automate hosting, apart from the CPanel they seem to have Billing and better security solutions. This is just from reading their site, so could I ask people with first hand experience to post whats good/bad about VDI/Alabanza and if any of these features really put Alabanze ahead of VDI.

Many Thanks,

John

At this point, Alabanza does not colocate servers. They only lease them. It is true that you have full automation with Alabanza, but any host that uses cpanel will have the automation very soon as well.

Basically, you want to look at the uptime of your servers and where they are located. If uptime is very important, you may want to consider Alabanza, but they have been having a few problems as well lately. As you probably know, VDI has had quite a few problems as well.

Thanks Michael, What are the prices of the servers they lease ? Or does anyone know the page where they display them, I can't find any on their site.

As for CPanel, Will it offer billing and what is security like compared to the Alabanza CP ? I have come across http://www.billadmin.com is this what will be incorporated into CPanel ? if so this costs extra so it might make it more worthwile to look at Alabanza..

Alabanza servers are going for $895/mo with only 50GB transfer + $1 for each control panel after the first 35. It adds up very quickly and you may want to reconider them because of this huge price.

Cpanel will be offering automated billing in their next release (slated to come out soon -- that's all I can say). It will be very similar to the Alabanza CP.

Billadmin will not be incorporated into cpanel. It is a seperate billing system (very good one) that is available for you as well.

Will the CPanel incorporate billing completely or will there be need for a third party program like instabill, excuse me if this is a stupid question - billing is something I need to look in to more...

Thanks

You will probably just have to get an authorize.net account and do a batch upload for billing.

Or Cybercash, as they are supposed to be incorporating that into their billing system.

Please note: I am replying to these messages not being 100% sure if I am right. Only from what I have heard.

I spoke with Alabanza this morning, in addition to $895/month, they want a $1000 set up fee! $500 if you pay for a quarter, $250.00 for 6 months and no set up fee if you pay for a year.

Wow ... does anyone know how vBulletin works on their servers? smoothly?

I haven't seen any problems with vBull on their servers mentioned here. Personally, I'd fork over the $10,740 for the year to save yourself the $1,000 set-up fee (yeeeeeah riiiiiiight!)

Yes
Alabanza is just getting far too expensive.
I have dedicated servers with 4 companies, all running Cpanel and all located at VDI.
The prices range from $400 up including 100GB transfer and unlimited sites (no control panel charges).

I think it is hard to justify the prices being charged by Alabanza.

The other advantage of the Cpanel system is that there is a lot of knowledge/cooperation out there amongst the smaller providers and if you have a problem you should be able to fix it yourself quite quickly.

Gordon

Originally posted by Destee
I spoke with Alabanza this morning, in addition to $895/month, they want a $1000 set up fee! $500 if you pay for a quarter, $250.00 for 6 months and no set up fee if you pay for a year.

Wow ... does anyone know how vBulletin works on their servers? smoothly?

Funny. I spoke with an account person there just yesterday, and the setup fee is comparable to everywhere else you go: $500.

vBulletin works smoothly on a server that is well-managed. I'd be less concerned about where the server is in terms of that than I would be about the quality of the people behind it. Alabanza has a good reputation for solidity, even with their network hiccups. I'll say right now I'm not a big fan of VDI. If you want to avoid both, go check out catalog.com or rackspace.com.

Originally posted by Peeps
[QUOTE]I'll say right now I'm not a big fan of VDI.

May I know why? Is this because of the connectivity problems they are having?

cheers,
:beer:

Originally posted by GordonH

The other advantage of the Cpanel system is that there is a lot of knowledge/cooperation out there amongst the smaller providers and if you have a problem you should be able to fix it yourself quite quickly.

Gordon



I assume you don't mean Cpanel is the advantage, but the advnatage of lots of VDI hosts running it and can maybe help each other solve the problems it creates? I've been dealing with fixing problems (and I'm talking major problems!) Cpanel and WHM have been creating, on various hosts, basically all day so far (and this seems to be every day!) Cpanel just did it's auto-update and the new problems flow in again. 10,000 problems and counting! I'm so pissed right now! All these Cpanel/WHM problems, are preventing me from doing my job, which I need to take a break for a few minutes from Cpanel and then get to my work again.

dektong, I will never match Tim for sheer verbosity, but I'll try to explain my post in words that number a bit less than the aggregate total of War and Peace.

I've watched VDI for quite awhile now. While people here may think they are the greatest thing on the planet (shades of Alabanza), I disagree with that assessment. I have a place in my heart for people in general and hosts specifically who understand that the image they present in public forums is very important. It doesn't matter if they are having a bad day. If they are angry with someone who has posted something less than optimal about them. If they think they're right. It only matters that what you see in a public forum is likely to be exactly what you get in a private forum. For my tastes, this is problematic for a large number of hosts. They cannot control themselves in public. They engage in wars over disputes that should be addressed and resolved in private (UltraspeedUK/USA, VO, Tim Greer). They insult clients or former clients over issues in public - maybe the client is right, maybe the client is wrong (Brendan at Host Rocket) - because they don't understand that holding yourself with decorum wins you more kudos than attempting to show everyone just how right you think you are. Finally, there is a communication issue. If a host (or provider in this case) cannot be clear, cannot express him/herself in a way that is easily understood, or cannot seem to be bothered about at least proofreading what they are about to say, that tells me that either they don't care if they look like idiots or they lack an attention to details that I would want were I hosting with them. William at VDI falls into this category, along with a host (if you'll excuse the expression) of other people. VDI's (ongoing) connectivity problems, resurfacing as they have after some months of quietude, is another reason for me to avoid them. Also, I do not care for CPanel, its "redesign", which is really, really terrible and really, really slow, or its inherent instability and bugginess. Finally, I do not like the fact that VDI hosts porn sites. I do not object to the content (as long as it is adults, you understand, since people should have the freedom to do what they will) as much as I do to the trouble it causes - everything from spamming to denial of service attacks (which VDI seems to get quite a lot). There are thousands of hosts out there, and several hundred providers. Out of all of those choices, why would I want to burden myself with a provider's problems?

PEEPS can you show me a perfect network ? or at least a network that there is never a complaint about ? You complain about my grammer and then say VDI stinks cause william has bad grammer :)

It`s possible that i`m typing all day and night ,lack of sleep. All this becomes 1 big blur. But your concern is my grammer ?

I`m going to take this scenario here about "WHY VDI the greatest thing on the planet" I have seen many hosting companies come here with 1 to 3 servers from Alabanza, DI, RackSpace, Verio, PSI and many other larger places. It Blows my mind when I see these little hosting companies explode to 15 - 60 servers in less then 3 - 5 months and this is that bad ?

As large as VDI is, and the amount of companies that host here. The main issue is when you get to certain size you get more eye-balls looking at you, so when things get rough, it becomes a "target for insults". no matter why / who fault it is.

The important fact is this:

I am doing something about it, I am actully reading and caring about what happends. I am spending 1/4 Million on the front end of the network. It will take 4 weeks to get it 101% again. It can`t happen over night.

I`m not all talk and hoping these things will just blow over, i am going to make VDI one heck of a network. I actully really give a damn about my clients and do what i can to make sure they can make money.

If you have 2 hours of your life to spare, you can bring your physical self to the Data Center and see what is going on, and one last thing.. WE DO NOT COMPARE TO ALABANZA, WE are not like Alabanza, nor do we want to be like Alabanza.

I did not build VDI to compete againse some of the larger data centers, we don`t even advertise. We just make sure we are there for our clients as much as possible. I intend to make it even better then what it currently is.

And yes I have made many many many mistakes on how a business should be run, growing pains, and learning about what not to do. The fact is at that at the end it will be experience that makes the better company. VDI is on the right track now and knows what needs to be done. All i see now is "other" non VDI clients or competitors trying to step on every fault or any oportunity to "Scream VDI sucks" don't go with them." Even in this months Whostmag, a competitor posted a article about something that happened 2 years ago to try to bash VDI. Is this the price you pay when you have a good thing going?

It`s 6:39 am now and i`m tired, i have to be up in 2 hours to build more servers and keep up with all the successful clients in VDI. It`s the Clients who have made VDI a good place, they have made the announcements, I never make a "Ghost post" to make VDI better then it was.

If you have anyting you like to address, please "call me" or at least icq me.

Have a nice day :)

PS. THE DOS attacks are not because of porn, they are because of people that allow Egg Drops and IRC servers.

To this day, not a single adult server was whacked with a dos attack.
















[Edited by William on 04-04-2001 at 09:44 AM]

For my tastes, this is problematic for a large number of hosts. They cannot control themselves in public. They engage in wars over disputes that should be addressed and resolved in private (UltraspeedUK/USA, VO, Tim Greer).
They insult clients or former clients over issues in public


My name mentioned there? Am I misunderstanding your post, or are you saying I'm one of the people that insult former clients? Just for the sake or interest and if you did mean that, I don't run a web host and I don't have any former client's here. Can you be clear about this, if you were meaning I insulted client's in public or even private and what that was? or if you meant something else? Just curious.

Also, you must also know, that Bill and I weren't exactly the best of pals before... I can tell you, that even after all that stuff, we get along fine and I can tell you, that even if VDI doesn't have all the money they want to upgrade the lines right this moment, that Bill does surely want this to work properly for everyone (why would he want his business to fail?) and that I don't get the impression that he'd risk DOS and allow SPAM issues, if they could be prevented.

Tim, I don't think peeps was saying you as the bad guy, but you as a victim... that was between you and USUSA/VO... I don't know anything about you and VDI... so let that open for peeops to answer.

cheers,
:beer:

I cannot for the life of me understand why people are so happy to take offense so quickly, without reading fully what they are now complaining about. Tim, if you'll notice, the issue between you and USUSA/VO has nothing to do with anything other than it should have been broached, discussed, and resolved in private instead of being hashed out in a public forum.

William, I don't really care what sorts of rationalizations you have to offer, particularly regarding the "size makes a target" claim. I don't see jumpline or pair being the target of anything in particular. I also don't care how hard you say you're working. Everyone works hard if they want to succeed, and that doesn't make you any different than anyone else. If you read carefully, you'll see that nowhere did I say that VDI was a bad network because of your grammar. I said that I personally do not care for people who cannot express themselves well or cannot bother to check what they are about to post (both in terms of spelling/grammar and in content). I don't personally care for the connectivity problems that seem to affect VDI more than other NOCs. I don't care that you don't want to be like Alabanza, even though they do have some very good things going on. One of the best things they have going, along with jumpline, pair, and so on, is that they aren't here slagging off other providers and trying to make themselves look good by comparison. Your post illustrates very nicely my reasoning: you immediately jump to the defensive, you try to tell everyone how much better VDI is than anyone else out there (instead of allowing actions to speak for themselves - which they do at this time, but poorly), your post is just this side of coherence, and you sound a lot like a pompous airbag, which is not something to which normal people aspire when they are trying to make a good impression on people. Thus far, neither VDI nor you have impressed me that greatly.

Originally posted by Peeps
I cannot for the life of me understand why people are so happy to take offense so quickly, without reading fully what they are now complaining about. Tim, if you'll notice, the issue between you and USUSA/VO has nothing to do with anything other than it should have been broached, discussed, and resolved in private instead of being hashed out in a public forum.

I wasn't quick to "take offense", nor did I "complain". You seem to be doing this fine yourself, I don't need to help. (And if you are going to say that wasn't directed to me, you ought to make a little effort to phrase your posts more comprehensively). I didn't have anything to take offense or complain about, since I obviously didn't know what you even had meant, or in what manner; hence my general and expected inquiry. To be clear, since you missed what I said, or didn't read my content for simply what it was; I asked as I saw my name mentioned, in direction of the "and these people insult clients and former client's of theirs in public". Whatever you knew it meant, it wasn't immediately evidenced to the public viewers, as you knew it to mean. Nonetheless, I'd expect you'd understand my simple inquiry for just what it was. It would appear that you took my post the wrong way, which ironically, you've seemed to indicate I took yours the wrong way, unless I'm mistaken about that.

The way it seems, is that basically, I should resolve my problems in private, yet you are here, now, publicly stating your issues (with not only what didn't directly involve you, but about issues that can also be directed to people in private) and that's perfectly reasonable in your case? Yet you say Bill is "sounding a lot like a pompous airbag"? You continue to bring up the issue of how he sounds, yet you seem to think your immune to that fact in your own posts? Just trying to understand this logic, is it arrogance? Is it personal? Is this the same mood that inspired you to post about someone saying they are happy with VO? Yes, it's apparent and archived that you don't like VDI or a lot of hosts on it, so is there a further point?

Why, is it okay for you to publicly hash out your problem, when you even went out of your way to mention myself and other's (which have little do to with the subject at hand), and you use this as a tool to debate your feelings about this subject you yourself had interjected from who-knows-where, therein committing that very action? I don't even understand where your post came from or how it's relevant to the context of and order of, the thread? It seemed to come out of nowhere? That said, I don't understand what you're doing, other than contradicting yourself, by committing the very act that you've intentionally brought up, outlined and demonized other's for. You do realize this, right?

Do you just not care how this action, when you're complaining about other's doing that very act, reflects on you and your point? Either way, a poor standing to your argument. Either way, contradictive. If you ran a NOC or host, I could easily add others. Perhaps that can explain why I wasn't clear on the aspect of why you mentioned it (me, or the content entirely, for that matter) and how it's certainly difficult to know what you're being clear about or the meaning, for those very reasons. No offense, but it seems like a $Pot->{Kettle}->{Black} type of thing to me. Really, I'm not trying to sound like some revenant by getting involved in this, just a general and harmless inquiry in regards to the provenance of this topic and a general observation in regard to it. Oh well, have fun.

[Edited by Tim_Greer on 04-05-2001 at 03:45 AM]

PEEPS - In this business actions speak louder than words, I would much rather an upstream or any other provider make a quick post in here if there is a problem and then spend the rest of the time dealing with it rather than analyse every single word in the post and waste 5 minutes doing so.

WHT is an informal discussion forum not an English class, when I deal with anyone for business on a serious level it is by letter, email or phone - that is when I worry about if they paying atention to detail when I am dealing with a serious business issue.

To be honest I think a discussion about grammar on forums is a little petty if you ask me, as long as people understand what you are getting it then it all works nice, as I said before - Actions speak louder then words and VDI is currently shouting from the roof tops with its actions at the moment.

So my advice to you PEEPS is put up or shut up - if you're not a VDI customer then stop whinging about them when you obviously don't have any experience with them, if you are a customer then put up with it or go somewhere else (sorry Bill - I'm not trying to loose you customers).

Tim, let's bury this right now, shall we? I thought you would be cogent enough to understand (especially since you've read and commented in another thread where I have made this distinction): the taking offense line was a general comment. The following line was directed at you, which you picked up without problem. Don't turn this into a fight with me, because you and I tend to be on the same wavelength, thought-wise, and because you and I tend to be rather blunt in our postings. If I've offended you in some way, you have my apologies. Fair enough?

Karl, if you think this forum has no relation on how companies are viewed, you have missed the point, like so many others. As soon as you post in the capacity of representing a company, and as soon as you put your company name in your signature, it is no longer informal, and people judge the poster by the contents of their posts. If you're sloppy, don't pay attention to details, or if you take potshots at your competitors while trying to inflate your own image, people will notice. If you don't understand this, then you don't understand some basic premises of business, like quite a few other hosts that populate this forum. And if you'll notice, nowhere did I say this was a grammar class. dektong asked me why I had no interest in VDI, and I responded with my opinion. You don't agree, that's fine by me. I think VDI's actions thus far, and their actions last year with the months of problems, speak quite loudly and quite clearly to certain things - things with which I have no desire to be associated.

Originally posted by Peeps
Tim, let's bury this right now, shall we? I thought you would be cogent enough to understand (especially since you've read and commented in another thread where I have made this distinction): the taking offense line was a general comment. The following line was directed at you, which you picked up without problem. Don't turn this into a fight with me, because you and I tend to be on the same wavelength, thought-wise, and because you and I tend to be rather blunt in our postings. If I've offended you in some way, you have my apologies. Fair enough?

Of course, I don't wait to argue about it. I was just giving you a hard time, really. There's no need for us to argue, apologies for my misunderstandings.