Try this one on for size...

Customer has his server with Company.

Customer has service issue with Company.

Customer posts cry for help at WHT and then posts a long, detailed complaint about Company.

Much discussion ensues, none by Company, and a 5 or 6 page thread results in just a day or so.

Now, Company tells Customer that if you don;t get the thread removed that Customer's service with Company will be immediately cancelled.

Customer asks Moderator to remove the thread .....

Here's the question ...

Should the Moderator, at the Customers' request, remove the thread????

I have not voted yet, but would like to know one thing.

Has Customer attempted to deal with Company directly?

NO!

If the customer wants to resolve the issue, then he should do it privately with the company... and post his experience with the company when/if it gets resolved.

If he wants to do it in public, then both sides of the story should be heard. However I don't like all of these threads mixed in with all the useful stuff in the Main Forums :(

Just my 0.02 ;)

Originally posted by headsurfer
Should teh Moderator, at teh Customers' request, remove the thread????
Absolutely not. That's outragous that the company stuffs up and then blackmails the customer to remove the thread. They should be kicked for those actions. That's so lame and pathetic of the company to do that. :eek: :rolleyes: :mad:

But if the company makes good on their threat, then that will be more harmful for the customer. It's so lame that they threaten their customer like that. :mad: It's childish, unprofessional and disgraceful.

The customer should try all avenues of contacting the company, but sometimes folks have just got to vent when they're at the end of their teather. The company should defend their service they delivered to the customer in the thread instead of hiding behind childish threats. If this is based on a real thread, then shame on the company for their actions....:mad:

what if Customer has in no way attempted to solve the matter with company first?

if the company didn't know about the thread and therefore didn't explain or try to resolve the situation at WHT (which shouldn't be happening), shouldn't the company have the right to remove a slanderous thread (assuming that's what the complaint contains?)

i've already made up my mind as to which way im voting (still haven't voted though) but would like my question answered before i vote

If the customer does not deal with the company directly and then proceeds to slander company without proof then yes the thread should be removed.

However....

If the customer has dealt with the company and the company provides poor service then customer has the right to voice his/her opinion and the thread stays as is.

At no point should company blackmail customer for his comments on a forum board. It is a public service. If the moderators are professional they will be able to pick through the threads that are true experiences and those that are just flames. ie. Chicken

[edit]Oh oops, sorta read that one wrong. No company should ever blackmail a customer. If the customer asks for the thread to be removed (without beling pressured by the company) the thread should be removed regardless of circumstance (unless your timmah) :D[edit]

akash, regarding your question, "Has Customer attempted to deal with Company directly?" I'm not sure that matters. The point is that the customer posted their experience and/or opinion.

akash, I'm not sure what, "what if Customer has in no way attempted to solve the matter with company first?" has to do with the question.

Slander has nothing to do with the issue. Any post determined to be untrue is removed from the forum without question, without the thread starter's request or approval. This is a given, and you should assume that the issue is a valid one.

Hostkookster, the question isn't, "Does the customer have the right to voice his/her opinion?" They do.

The question isn't, "Should a company blackmail a customer for their comments on a forum board?" They shouldn't. Again, you have to assume that this issue is valid.

The question is should we remove an informative thread for the benefit of the thread starter, or leave the thread for the benefit of the community (a search wouldn't show the issue)? Understand that the thread starter's service would most likely be terminated if the thread is kept (or at least that is what the thread starter is told).


I don't want to write much more, as I don't want to influence the voting. You have to read the question carefully and consider the ramifications of both removing and keeping the thread. Place yourself in both the thread starter's shoes and in the shoes of yourself/someone else considering this host and not finding the issue in a search (one of the most common suggestions on the forum is to 'search the forum' and this is one of the benefits of a forum verses chat).

The question is should we remove an informative thread for the benefit of the thread starter, or leave the thread for the benefit of the community (a search wouldn't show the issue)? Understand that the thread starter's service would most likely be terminated if the thread is kept (or at least that is what the thread starter is told).

Then the thread should be kept (and kept open at that).

Originally posted by Chicken
The question is should we remove an informative thread for the benefit of the thread starter, or leave the thread for the benefit of the community (a search wouldn't show the issue)? Understand that the thread starter's service would most likely be terminated if the thread is kept (or at least that is what the thread starter is told).
It's a really touchy issue. The company has done the wrong thing by blackmailing the customer to remove the thread. It was their lack of action and service is what led their customer to post the thread of complaint in the first place.

That's discusting and totally unprofessional. If they can't defend their actions in the thread and prefer to hide like a little scumbag coward behind a lame childish threat to pull their server, then you'd have to wonder what are they doing in business? :mad:

Originally posted by Aussie Bob

It's a really touchy issue. The company has done the wrong thing by blackmailing the customer to remove the thread. It was their lack of action and service is what led their customer to post the thread of complaint in the first place.

That's discusting and totally unprofessional. If they can't defend their actions in the thread and prefer to hide like a little scumbag coward behind a lame childish threat to pull their server, then you'd have to wonder what are they doing in business? :mad:

i totally agree with you, but this is assuming that the customer already tried resolving it with the company and that the complaint that the customer made is true

The thread should be left as is. We are all responsible for our actions if you get mad and post without first trying to resolve the problem with the company and if you lose your account that is the consequences of your actions. If the company was in the wrong to remove the thread under the guise of blackmail is compounding the wrong.

Moral of the story:

Don't post without thinking and take care of business then you will not have to blackmail your customers.

I think situations as of these have to go on a per situation basis. WHT is getting bigger than many colleges, maybe its time for a more structured government :) A sort of council voted.. but then again I doubt that would work.. anyhow, that's another topic BLEH.

If the complaint was accurate keep the post. If it wasn't, he should edit and restate it, or if its totally off delete the thread. Thats my opinion

Aahh, I understand now. :dunce:

Hypotherically speaking using headsurfers example without critisizing or changing it....if the customer requests that the thread be removed, then it should be closed but not deleted. Future customers will want to know both the good and bad times of a company.

Originally posted by akash


i totally agree with you, but this is assuming that the customer already tried resolving it with the company and that the complaint that the customer made is true

As per Chicken:
"Slander has nothing to do with the issue. Any post determined to be untrue is removed from the forum without question, without the thread starter's request or approval. This is a given, and you should assume that the issue is a valid one. "

So if the customer comes here and it is not true the post gets removed, if the post is true the company can deal with the issue in the open and show others how they treat customers. If it is a customer that just cannot be made happy then the company can handle it however they see fit. Either way the post should stay.

I tried to vote HELL NO!!!!.


I had to settle for NO.


Nothing to expand on what already's been mentioned. It's pretty simple really. For the good of the community; it stays.

No, Robert, IMHO you should leave the hos****ket thread(s) as they stand :D

Just FYI, it ins't about hos****ket, or a particular host. Just a general question.

...since this is hypothetical, all based on "ifs", with us not knowing what the customer's complaint "was", or the customer's "attitude" in posting his/her/their/its compaint...

...if the customer had a legitimate grievance, which the COMPANY did not address... the COMPANY is obviously unethical... but...
...if the customer will suffer much from the removal of the customer's account from the COMPANY server...
...then in the best interests of the customer, i would grant customer's wish by removing the thread...

..at least then customer will have more time to make other arrangements, after which he can return to the WHT and re-tell the entire experience... :dunce:

Originally posted by Chicken
Just FYI, it ins't about hos****ket, or a particular host. Just a general question.

oops...oh well...dang...:bawling:

I don't think I've ever seen a thread that needed deleting. Sure, close em. But, don't delete em. And don't feed me that stuff about, "Well they're not deleted; just moved to a forum you can't get to." :rolleyes: To us; they're deleted. :(
The truth generally always shines through in the end. I believe it is important to know, if it is a he said/ she said kinda thing, who was being truthful. Sometimes we miss that part when threads get moved to that undisclosed location. The black hole. :(

But, I'm rambliing. Especially since I voted NO, a long time ago. :)

Well, while I understand about the 'if we can see it it is deleted' thing, even threads in thrown threads have been restored once the issue calms down (for searching purposes).

In the spirit of the net and all that is great about it, the thread should not be deleted, nor should it be edited in any way, just close the thing.

WHT needs to have high morals, with headsurfer's company owning the site now they will be under heavy scrutiny and if they delete the post...

I believe that all posts should stay unless a credible suit presents itself. Then well, by all means take the thing down and leave an explanation.

The company that requests/blackmails the end user in to requesting deleting the thread is just all around stupid.

People here do their research, nor are they so naive to believe one thread makes a companies reputation.

Never accept blackmail.
Internet - and especially forums - is a place where you discuss issues, during and after they have occured.

I'd really love to say no... but (gotta love those 'but's)...

If the threadstarter decides that their hosting account means more to them than spreading their experience to other people, then the thread should be removed. Remember too that the "damage" has already been done anyway, and while someone can't search and find it later, the hundreds of people that read it will already know it (and what's to stop one of them from starting a new thread or telling people on their own not to host there).

With a person's right to free speech also comes the right to retract a statement, for whatever reason they see fit to use (even under threat of blackmail as it were). Remember a company who handles clients like that is likely to generate a lot of negative publicity even if one thread at this message board is removed (the customer also can use the time they saved to transfer to a new hosting company, and then re-post their complaints again). Ultimately, I think the decision about whether or not to keep a thread that has not broken any guidelines should be left to the threadstarter, not the moderators.

thread starters have the right to request a thread to be closed but not deleted.

btw, the free speech amendment does not apply here :)

No free speech; I forgot about that.. and I also forgot that we signed our eternal souls over to WHT when we signed up ;)

The thread should be left, should be left open, should be made sticky, and it should be noted that the company is trying to force the customer to have the thread removed ... but I would think that the moderator who makes it sticky should be the one to note that the company is trying to force the customer to get it removed.

Or am I babbling?

from a moderator point of view, I will always do as the thread starter asks, if a thread starter requests a thread that they originally posted be deleted I would have to admit i would remove it from the forums. Simply because thats the way I work.

Most of the time us mods dont get to find out the real reason a thread starter wants the thread dopping, sometimes id imagine they are paid to get it removed but i honestly cant speculate.

I've noticed a couple of threads/posts come up since I've joined where my British cynicism kicked in - saw as nothing more than marketing attempts, either to promote own services, or to attack competitors.

People relating to experiences - fine. Customer whining on here first instead of to the company makes customer look bad first.

Companies aggressively marketing themselves by creating extraneous IDs for marketing purposes are likely to hurt themselves real bad.

PS - No vote - poster simply edits/deletes own thread as he or she wishes, on whatever whimsy.

This is a really tough one to call. And I can sure see why you put it to the forum.

If it were the company making the request I would say an ABSOLUTE NO. Let the company do whats right and work out the situation with the customer.

In the case of this situation, the SCUMBAG company is trying to blackmail the customer. Now, what if the poor customer has 15 client sites and a couple of e-commerce operations going on that are mission critical and producing 1000's of dollars in sales per day for those clients. You really can't allow this guy to get turned off.

I think the best road to take here is to advise the customer that you will do as he asks however that blackmail is wrong and he should seek another vendor for his mission critical operations that is worthy of trust.

My two cents,

Robert,
like Chicken underlined, if this is undeserved criticism and the customer is an ass, well, I think that the thread should be removed (not taking in account the scummy blackmail issue)

However, if the customer has good reasons to complain here, I don't see why a give company should get some special treatment just because they don't like it :rolleyes:
Everybody know that, if they are so touchy, best way to solve this issue is to improve their level of service.

No thread should not be removed. And company should not involve WHT with it.
What if I was running WHT forum or your client post in someother forum which is not run by company. I would have never removed this thread. Like before also there are so many cases like this where people have cried for help in WHT and some have bashed the companies.
Now 2 things
WHT and Company's are two identities. Though WHT is part of Company it should not threatened the user of WHT for this.
You have given the user not choice either delete or his services will be withdrawn.....
To be very honest its not fair. Now even the user wants to keep this forum he will request the moderator to remove because he will think of his services with company first.
WHT should be free from threats.
User should aplolozize to company in forum if there was mistake from his side.

Could you post that threads URL.

No. No matter even if the company is right in this situation, blackmailing a customer like that is plain wrong.

As with softwarereview....the thread should stay for the betterment of the online environment. Blackmail and/or extortion is illegal for a reason.

I think the thread should be closed, but not removed. Here's my reasoning:

* if the complaint is genuine, and the client attempted to resolve the issue but could not, then the general community should know about it, and the company should be held liable for their actions or lack thereof

* if the complaint is genuine, but the client did not attempt to resolve it properly with the company in question, then the person acted before they thought; and should be held liable for their actions, in all senses of the word (lawsuit for slander and / or libel)

* if the complaint is not genuine, again, the person acted before they thought; and should be held liable for their actions, in all senses of the word

Leaving a thread public but closed minimises the administrative overhead for the forum moderators. They shouldn't have to run around cleaning up peoples' messes; and if either a web host or a consumer acts before they think...well, they shouldn't be allowed to get off scot free. Too many entities - individuals and companies alike - seem to rely on short memories and / or elastic ethics.

I believe the thread should be left alone. Getting involved with disputes between customers and companies gets to be a sticky situation and trying to be the judge is a hard position for anyone to be involved in.

There are always 2 sides to the story and when it comes to customer vs. company these stories are usually dramatically different.

If a customer chooses to post of WHT this is in every way their given right and depending on the company if they choose to cancel service this is also their given right.

How about a new off shoot of WHT, called WEBHOSTINGCOURT.COM?? featuring "Judge Chicken"!

No, posts should stay. Short of blatant insults and swearing, they should not be edited either.

It also helps if old posts aren't deleted either.

Originally posted by ap_surge
How about a new off shoot of WHT, called WEBHOSTINGCOURT.COM?? featuring "Judge Chicken"!
LOL... errrrrr... well. "Both parties have agreed to settle this matter in our court..." Where's Doug Luellen (spelling is probably off) when you need him? I always liked Doug.

Welcome to free information,
The internet can bring a community together and has the ability to inform quickly. If the customer has made a, or several attempts to request assistance or resolve an issue with the company, to no avail. Then Cry Havoc and unleash the dogs of War!!! Especially when the company is in the internet business.

PS Blackmail should never be tolerated, let the company then post on the forum and request the individual to continue the issue in private and have the results posted back in the forum.

We are all humans a business may be late with an issue but continuous neglect or ignorance is unacceptable!

Pete

Removing threads can get into sticky issues.
One day it's for one reason, then it's for another reason.
If a thread is untrue, and therefore damaging to another, yes. Any other reason will just lead to broader spectrum of "if's" and "but's".
Besides, how do you know that the memembrs pw hasn't been comprimised, and that the requester is who he says he is?
Nope, leave the threads and if someone doesn't like people saying they suck, well, then they should just quit sucking. :D

why would a company ask to have a thread removed , here in america , we pride ourselves on freedom of speech/press , i could see if someone made a false statement and being held "liable" for it . But to to blackmale a person like that is just as illegal as making a "liable" statement

No,

The Customer posted about Company by himself, nobody forced him or told him to, so why should the moderator have to jump in and fill in for a stupid mistake the Customer has done and only just realised because of what Company said.

No,
Shouldn't be like that. Not our fault that their customer service didn't solve the request correctly. If they want to moan here about it go ahead. Constitutional Right to do so.
-MH

The ethical thing to do would be to vote NO.

If it was the server of some other company I would do the ethical thing.

However if it was my own server I don't think telling my customers how I stood up for my rights "doing the ethical thing" would fill my mailbox with cheers and compliments as they face at least 2 days downtime and possible dataloss.

Customers go before ethics in this case ):

After I had moved my customers though I would be back in the forum telling everybody how the bastards blackmailed me into removing the thread. So in the end they will pay. For what it's worth anyway...

Actually, the customer takes responsibilty for whatever s/he posts in any public forum. If their post is incorrect, and the host has a clause stating that slander and / or libel could result in account termination, that's not blackmail, but straight consequences. Just as having a negative review posted about your company, if you don't bother to professionally handle your clients' support requests, is a possible consequence to a host.

It seems that far too many people feel that Internet anonymity gives them the right to falsely accuse either businesses or clients, and then get off scot-free. Wrong. If you falsely accuse someone, you should be prepared to deal with the consequences - which can include loss of business, diminished business reputation, suspension or termination of services, even legal action. I'm not an advocate of suing everyone who makes a false statement about you or your business, just like I'm not an advocate of using chargebacks as a primary solution - but they do have their place; and hopefully all sides can be mature enough to solve the problem before such measures need to be used.

Nothing is consequence-free. The consequences may be relatively mild, maybe even positive (enhanced business reputation being one example of a positive consequence, if that term isn't a complete oxymoron); but nothing is consequence-free. If a client or business starts a thread that turns out to be false or fixed, they should have the intestinal fortitude to go back and edit their original post to note that the situation was resolved, or was a misunderstanding, or whatever. The post shouldn't be erased, and neither should the thread.

Both company and customer have the opportunity to use the thread to apologise/put the record straight if they desire to do so.

Great point :D

I believe the thread should not be removed.

First of all, if it is based on a legitimate complaint, the community will benefit from hearing about it, now and in future searches. It's one of the few ways to research a company here before doing business with them.

If the complaint is bogus, I still think it should remain undeleted. I think most of us are intelligent enough to weed through all the inaccuracies and draw our own conclusions.

Besides, I would find it very valuable to see how the company handles itself in such a situation. Whether they have done wrong or not, the manner in which they reply speaks volumes about their professionalism and maturity as a company. Even if a company has been unfairly accused, if they lash back with immature and inappropriate comments, that may affect my decision to do business with them in the future. Anyone can look good when the feathers aren't ruffled.

And needless to say, nobody should ever tolerate being blackmailed into removing a thread.

My 2 cents...

Vito

I voted NO because.

1) If the company wants it deleted,they apparntly have something to hide.

2) If they threaten to remove you as a customer for stating the truth,thier not worth bieng with,they obviously arent an honest/up front market.........

The Dude :)

Hello,

In my opinion, the moderator should remove/hide the thread, and when the customer resolves his situation (like move to another host or something), should ask the moderator to re-activate the thread.

What do you think?

Why????????

And let a dishonest company continue to go unnoticed???

I disagree totally.......

The Dude :)

That's what I said.

HIDE the thread until the client resolves his situation (that means move to another host so the dishonest company can not take his site down.

And then RE-ACTIVATE or UNHIDE, or something the thread, so everybody can see it.

> The question is should we remove an informative
> thread for the benefit of the thread starter, ...

The thread starter can already remove his own posts, right? I think I saw that when I signed up (but didn't really care because
I try to be careful with my posts and stand for correction rather than running to hide).

Posters should take care with their posts. Members should not be denied the benefit of a thread because the thread starter was careless.

I vote NO. Thanks for asking.

Oh,i thought you meant take the thread offline NC99,i see what you mean :)

I dont think anyone is going to try and knock someone's site down just to get rid of a TRUTH about them (At least i hope they wouldnt)

The Dude :)

I prefer forums where I can remove my own stupid threads or posts - and not wait for an admins or a moderator's permision to remove them for me.

We all make mistakes, me more than most - and Anger produces some very stupid posts, that the poster might want to delete about after they cool down a bit - or their problem gets fixed to their satisfaction.

Originally posted by headsurfer
Should the Moderator, at the Customers' request, remove the thread????

Yes, Mods should always remove threads if the thread starter requests it. The Company, however, should be banned for extorting the Customer to make the request in the first place.

Customer should try all avenues of contacting company, if all fail, then dont post slanderous things about said company, but do put a note saying that you didnt like their service, and they will probably respond and be more willing to resolve the issue. Saw this recently with rackshack, a customer had a problem with their customer service, and posted a message here, mario jumped in immediately and offered a solution to the issue, which after much debate, the customer accepted.

I also aqgree with post above mine, company should be banned from posting on wht for blackmail/extortion, and should probably be reported to the bbb or some regulatory organization. Just my 2c worth.

If the company is going to terminate the customer when the thread was the truth, then the customer doesn't need to be with that company anyway. Customers should be valued.

how did the company find out about thread ?
if they are browsing forum and haven't got the balls (oops) to defend their position in what is an "open" (albeit at the moment one-sided discussion) forum then they should go cry somewhere else. In the customers contract I am sure it talks about service levels.

Forums are a form of free speech (no I'm not going to do a rant) and the thread should be UNTOUCHED.

seems like situation was handled badly by customer but handled insidiously (yes insidiously) by the company.

Originally posted by phpcoder
NO!

If the customer wants to resolve the issue, then he should do it privately with the company... and post his experience with the company when/if it gets resolved.

Just my 0.02 ;)

Unfortunatley, if said issue is negative, the staff here will gladly close the thread and tell the user to move on, calling it a flame. I'd love to see this kind of feedback, but I've had certain individuals claim I'm simply out for flaming someone when I'm posting facts, pure and simple truth and facts.

Sadly, a great deal of business done through organizations such as this is going to be negative, because it's a quick way to make a $$$, and people (seriously) don't investigate who they're doing business with and ask for some sort of proof of what they get. When they find out they've been screwed as is quite common with boards like this, well, it's too late.

I'll just ignore the post by wolfstream as he has already been warned due to his behavior for previous posts (which you can tell). He will be invited to troll elsewhere.

This thread was started a long time ago and concerned a specific issue. That issue is long since dead, and the opinions offered in this thread have helped to form a new policy in which threads are locked but not removed. Thank you.