I see posts about 14 year old kids running hosting companies. It seems that other web hosts despise young web hosts. If the owner is mature enough, has good business skills, and provides a good service, then why would it matter how old the person is?

School sound to you?
how about if the child do something wrong and his parents don't let him use the computer?
A 14 years old person can't legally run a bussines.

It’s hard for me to get jobs and I am 19! I have more skills then most people with a Microsoft Certified Dummy Cert. they do have kids that have the skills and the maturity. It’s mostly money though.

1. Can't legally bind contracts
2. School

I don't have a problem with people working for hosting companies that are that age... as the company will most likely setup some kind of system so that it can still perform even if he/she is not available. If they provide good service, skills, etc, then all the power to them.

However, I think that 14yr's old to own/run a company is a bad idea.

Wow, i never thought about school. I don't know what i was thinking. Anyway, i thought this would be an interesting thread.

Note that there is a difference between running and owning a business.....i've met quite a few minors (16/17) that have great business minds with the business registered under their father's name (who in most cases, also has a great business mind)

"If the owner is mature enough, has good business skills, and provides a good service, then why would it matter how old the person is?"

(Aside from the legal ramifications) Given this exceedingly rare combination then most would have no problem. How many 14 yr olds have good business skills? Many 14 yr olds may think they do, but they don't. Granted there are 30 yr olds who shouldn't be running a business - this board is littered with their failed companies. Could a 14 yr old make a great syadmin? sure, but a business person - very, very rarely.

The kid could be one of those geniuses that are out of college by 15 :)

legal issues. Accountability. Its all fine when things go ok but who do you sue when things go wrong? Its not the individual's ability.

hosty

Hello,

Well the most important issue is experience. Do you think running a web hosting business is as easy as 1.2.3 ?

Of course not, however anyone can be a reseller, but what about having enough experience to run it ? This business requires a certain level of knowledge in the use of Internet languages, protocols, and software.

You might think the owner just manage the business, and he will recruit some staffs in different departments. Admins, Sales, Customer services... But since the owner himself has got no experience or might not have enough knowledge of this industry, he may get ripped by his staff.

I think its only logic.
How can a 14yr old run a business and attend schl at the same time? Running a webhost company asks alot of time to maintain and manage. How much time can a 14 yr old have to do that all at once with schl and whatever he/she is doing in his/her teen life?
And if hes/shes not going to school then what business skills will he/she have in the future? even for that webhosting company?

Accountability, availability, efficacy

Accountability - Liable to being called to account;

Assuming they are responsible and accountable in their own nature, you cannot hold them legally accountable. Unless you enter into a contract with their parents you are out-of-luck. This is especially dangerous if something more than just downtime goes wrong...

Availability - Present and ready for use; at hand; accessible

Will school work, friends, and/or girl/boyfriends distract them and take them away from this serious job they are supposed to be doing for you? (Sorry the service was down all afternoon, evening, and night on Friday as well as Saturday morning..I had a date and then slept in. or I can't believe I turned down a date with the girl of my dreams and ruined that opportunity for a fruitful relationship forever because I decided to sit home and upgrade a kernel instead.)

Efficacy - Power or capacity to produce a desired effect; effectiveness.

IF they appear to have it now, will their parents take that away, for whatever reason? Sorry son. That mistake you made was unexcusable and you're grounded from your computer. or Gee son, we love you so much and hate to see you wasting the most precious years of your life in front of that box. For your own good... to encourage you to get outside more, interact with others, and broaden your horizons, we are limiting your computer time to 2 hours per day max.

I'd also really like to think responsible people would rather not put a young mind into a mode where they must decide between Fixing something for a client vs. Study for a test where the grade may have permanent affects on their future.

If the child is focussed on the hosting industry would it not be better for them to become employed with a host that can utilize their services on a part (or in some cases full) time basis? In this way the child continues to enhance his skills in an industry he is dedicated to going into yet allows him time to continue his education and relationships without the risk of ruining his entire life before he's old enough for even a driver's license.

If you're young, I would recommend going the route of obtaining a job in the industry you enjoy most rather than starting the company yourself. Your ability to earn an income is still there, and possibly you'll make even more. Your ability to build your skills in the area is still there, your ability to go on a date without the stress of it is there, and your risk of getting into serious trouble (as well as getting your parents into trouble. see accountability above) is avoided.

My 20 cents...

<edited to fix smiley that was trying to intrude>

It's a bad idea. While it may be the same result, it's the same concept as why a client wouldnt wanna hire a 14 lawyer even if he is good enough.

Btw im not saying its possible, it is, but there are other issues to look at aswell as the post posted by Deb :)

If clients know your age and are still willing to sign up I don't see a problem with it. Would you entrust a domain with important contact methods such as email to a 14 year old? However mature you can be at that age you're still missing one vital aspect: real life experience.

Don't rush to grow up. You have over 50 years to act mature once school's done and I guarantee there'll always be another service industry like web hosting to get involved in at that time. Enjoy what youth provides: make friends, party (call it networking if you're a business nut), and play football.

Sincerely,

-Matt

If you really want to hire a kid, hire them to make you logos or webpages or templates or something. Have them script for you.

Anyways, there's plenty of people with kids to feed that would love your business hosting.

-WC-

A 14 years old person can't legally run a bussines. Yes they can, they cannot legally own a business though ( http://www.njdiscjockey.com ). I run a disc jockey company that I started last year (I'm 15 now), and the DBA is filed under my dad's name, so he technically owns the company, and he signs the contracts.

I am responsible, and I DJ dances and parties in my spare time. I work my business around school, since it doesn't require me to be available 24/7/365, like a webhosting business would.

- Matt

I really don't know how anyone in school could do it. I work 16-18hrs per day and i still think I could be doing more...I coudn't imaging that you would be able to provide effective service while going to school.

Get your education first then come join the hosting world. You might realize it isn't really what ya wanna do. (not me though ;) )

Originally posted by Jedito
School sound to you?
how about if the child do something wrong and his parents don't let him use the computer?
A 14 years old person can't legally run a bussines.

Actually they can run a business legally, I called up our business people here in utah, they said you can be any age and have a business license. What do kids do out of school? Some go skate boarding, some go out with friends, and some stay home on the computer. People may think they need a life besides sitting on the computer, well usually us teenagers don't care what you think. We like to do what we like to do. I started web hosting when I was 15, I am now 16 and by staying home on the computer every night I have learned a tremendous amount of knowledge. I do have a social life, student government, school, and lots of friends. I do business on the side preparing me for life. I have a business license for www.truji.net but I am unable to get a merchant gateway, I am in the process of having someone older sign up for me. Now, what if the teeanger did something bad and the parents got sued for it, any smart parent wouldn't just take their kid away from the computer. If they did then what happens to the customers? Most likely the parents will get sued some more, so most parents would legally shutdown the company before just banning their teenager from the computer. Anyways, those are my thoughts.

Why not hire the 14 year old doctor next time someone needs an operation? :rolleyes:

mainarea sounds like a responsible 15 year old. He understands he doesn't have the time run a business.

Originally posted by OverSkilled


. . . . . . . .well usually us teenagers don't care what you think. . . . . . . . Well, another great reason why they shouldn't try running a business.

Originally posted by SoftWareRevue
Why not hire the 14 year old doctor next time someone needs an operation? :rolleyes:

mainarea sounds like a responsible 15 year old. He understands he doesn't have the time run a business.

Hey, there are 13 year olds that already have graduated from college.

Originally posted by OverSkilled


Hey, there are 13 year olds that already have graduated from college. Yeh. There are retired people that never graduated Elementary School. So, what's your point?

What's wron with 14 year olds? :angry: :bawling:

Hello,

I believe first of all it's better to clarify if you mean a real hosting business or just being a reseller ?

Cause if you look around the Reseller forum in WHT you'll find out most of them are teenagers. So that's totally different if that gentleman meant to be a web hosting reseller or running his business in real meaning.

My point is that you can be any age and do just about anything. A 13 year old can do a operation, may not do it right, but he still can, can't he? If you had some disease no other person knew how to cure besides a 10 year old, would you trust him?

I hate when people doubt the younger generation.

Originally posted by HeadMaster
Hello,

I believe first of all it's better to clarify if you mean a real hosting business or just being a reseller ?

Cause if you look around the Reseller forum in WHT you'll find out most of them are teenagers. So that's totally different if that gentleman meant to be a web hosting reseller or running his business in real meaning.

What do you define as a real business? A reseller is a real business, the person collects money doesn't he/she? They provide customer support and all that junk. They provide the same products you do.

Like it was mentioned before, there's a difference between running and owning a business. Obviously, if a minor starts his own company, it would be a bumpy road, unless he has people to back him up. Most teenagers I believe are mature enough and often has the basic skills needed to manage a small business, only problem is that their daily lives might interfere.

Imo, there's nothing wrong with a minor running their own businesses and try to get in touch with the real world and gaining experience. As long as they don't quit one day, and leave loose ends behind.

I wouldn't let a 13 year old kid perform an operation on me no matter how smart he is.

Call me old-fashion, but I think yard work and delivering newspapers is more suitable for a 14-year old.
Kids need exercise at that age while their bones develop, and don't need to be sedentary on a computer for hours on end. They also need the outside world for developing their social skills.

Originally posted by OverSkilled
My point is that you can be any age and do just about anything. A 13 year old can do a operation, may not do it right, but he still can, can't he? If you had some disease no other person knew how to cure besides a 10 year old, would you trust him?

I hate when people doubt the younger generation. Nothing to do with doubting. Has to do with legalities and the fact that what seems great and wonderful now, looks entirely different in five minutes.


Not to mention some kids that say things like, "Well, if I start a company, and it goes to pot, mom and dad will just disolve it for me." That is certainly not the kind of people that should be heads of companies.

Originally posted by SoftWareRevue
Nothing to do with doubting. Has to do with legalities and the fact that what seems great and wonderful now, looks entirely different in five minutes.


Not to mention some kids that say things like, "Well, if I start a company, and it goes to pot, mom and dad will just disolve it for me." That is certainly not the kind of people that should be heads of companies.
Absolute stereotype, not all teenagers do that, and trust me, I know alot.

Did you read the thread? Did you see something like those words?

Originally posted by OverSkilled


What do you define as a real business? A reseller is a real business, the person collects money doesn't he/she? They provide customer support and all that junk. They provide the same products you do.

Dear friend,

Real business is defined as:

- Having a company/office, under a certain name.
- Holding the business license as whether Inc. , LLC and etc.
- Recruiting a group of professional staff in every field available, in the company, so that they may deliver unparalleled service and support to customers.
- Having the bank account under the company's name.
-.....
-.....

P.S: Not all of them are necessary.

In anyway you can make money, but different between official business way and unofficial way.

Originally posted by Limbo
...trust me, I know alot.

LOL... famous last words, and it sounds like something a teenager would say.

and?

Originally posted by Limbo
and? 14 year olds shouldn't be owning hosting "companies" or running hosting companies that are "owned" by their parents that don't have a clue what their kid does on the puter.

LOL! I emplore anyone under 17 that adds input into this thread to print this thread, seal the printout into an envelope and write on the envelope "DO NOT OPEN UNTIL 2015". File that envelope someplace very safe in a file that will go with you over the years.

Read it then.... it'll make you laugh or cry at that time ;)

For even more fun... save it for your own kids to read to you when they are about to make a decision ... ahh the whiplash!!!

I suppose a 14 year old reseller wouldn't be terrible. Then you know that there really is someone knowledgeable and available behind the scenes at the server for any problems.

-WC-

Sorry if my post was misleading, but it never mentioned anything about starting a hosting company on their own, or running their parent's business. I simply said not all teenagers are irresponsible and know nothing of the business world.

Again; the wise voice of Deb enters this thread. :D

Originally posted by Limbo
Sorry if my post was misleading, but it never mentioned anything about starting a hosting company on their own, or running their parent's business. I simply said not all teenagers are irresponsible and know nothing of the business world. Maybe not; but you were implying my response to OverSkilled was wrong when he was stating those very things.

Originally posted by SoftWareRevue
Again; the wise voice of Deb enters this thread. :D Hey, I knew EVERYTHING once before too ya know :stickout

My bad then.

Originally posted by Deb
Hey, I knew EVERYTHING once before too ya know :stickout :D Heh . . . Didn't we all?

Now that I think about it, I may have paid no attention to the ramblings of them old people. So, I suppose, to save what little sanity I have left, I should bow out from this thread. :)

Not to long ago....

Kid says "Mom I need a new bike!" Mom says "Go mow some lawns and save your money"

Today...

Kid says "Mom I need a new NVIDIA GeForce4 TI4600 video card!" Mom says "Talk your father into letting you run a web hosting company"

I am 15 and i would have to say there are advantages and disadvantages to my hosting company..
Disadvantages:
-School: definatly a major disadvantage considering thats 8 hours of non sleeping time that i am not able to provide for my customers.
-Chores/Homework/Punished: these add to the time not spent making sure my customers are all doing well.
-Age: people dont respect what i can offer.
-Legal issues: already talked about a lot in this post

Advantages: yes there are some.
-Small: my customers are in a small community and most are local. And a lot are friends and friends of friends. I am on a first name basis with all my customers. I email them and ask how they are doing instead of waiting for them to ask me for help.
-Also i am not out to make a living so i am not in it for the money. More for a hobby. So i usually put most of the profit back into the company, which in turn makes my customers more happy.
-I designed most of my customers sites and they are mostly brochure sites, so my customers dont need a lot of customer support, and when they do, they know when and how to reach me.

Overall i think i am at no disadvantage being a youngin and i enjoy the experience. And throughout highschool and college who knows, i might be able to build a strong enough base to be able to use that as my profession after college.

Bandwidth, that is an intelligent post, and shows that you think things through and recognize (and, I assume/hope, plan from) your strengths and weaknesses.

If young 'uns know (and are upfront about) the weaknesses, then there is no problem other than the sticky wicket of not being able to enter into a contract (but that can be taken care of properly).

Still, I think most 14 year olds don't have that kind of maturity -- I know I sure didn't, myself -- and are less apt to put in the thought and effort necessary to make a good business.

Originally posted by bandwidth
I am 15 and i would have to say there are advantages and disadvantages to my hosting company..
Disadvantages:
-School: definatly a major disadvantage considering thats 8 hours of non sleeping time that i am not able to provide for my customers.
-Chores/Homework/Punished: these add to the time not spent making sure my customers are all doing well.
-Age: people dont respect what i can offer.
-Legal issues: already talked about a lot in this post

Advantages: yes there are some.
-Small: my customers are in a small community and most are local. And a lot are friends and friends of friends. I am on a first name basis with all my customers. I email them and ask how they are doing instead of waiting for them to ask me for help.
-Also i am not out to make a living so i am not in it for the money. More for a hobby. So i usually put most of the profit back into the company, which in turn makes my customers more happy.
-I designed most of my customers sites and they are mostly brochure sites, so my customers dont need a lot of customer support, and when they do, they know when and how to reach me.

Overall i think i am at no disadvantage being a youngin and i enjoy the experience. And throughout highschool and college who knows, i might be able to build a strong enough base to be able to use that as my profession after college.
tru, tru

Although a younger person is capable, I'd not risk it with a site and hope I didn't find out the hard way. There's enough hosts with experience and good prices that are knowledgeable to have no need to make anyone have to make that decision.

I'm not saying this out of prejudice for younger people, but as some people mentioned, and as some didn't or didn't say clearly.

Legalities; They can have their parent agree to and sign contracts, etc., but the 14 year old is ultimately the one that will deliver or not. If you go with a 14 year old (Paradise designs is a good example) and you get screwed over, you only have yourself to blame for not considering that it's difficult to seek action.

Commitments; Not only school, but anything. Also that they don't have control over their lives. They can be grounded, their parent can think they are putting too much time into the online business and pull the plug. Homework is also a part of school, it's not just the same thing every day and go to school and come home and your day is free. What about chores at home? Between school, homework, breakfast and dinner, sleep, possibly work (chores) at home, and a few other things, there's not a lot of time to commit to learning and getting experience, let alone to run it how it should be.

Experience; Some people can learn a lot, but there is experience that's involved that takes more than a few weeks or months to know all there is to properly run a web host. We're talking years of knowledge and this "I'm 14, but I've been using 'computers' since I was 5" doesn't cut it. Barring any uniquely smart child that has the ability to graduate college at 14-ish, you can bet that it's incredibly rare and I don't think any of them are running a web hosting business anyway. The point being that it takes time to learn, not just knowledge, but experience of doing things.

Control; A 14 year old in most countries doesn't have the control over their life and time and what they do with that time. They are committed to do what their parents tell them, what the laws that apply to their age limit them to, and even the school system. Even if they desired to commit all their time and energy, anything can happen. Parents can pull the plug because they don't want their kids online so much or for any reason. What if the parent is irresponsible and doesn't pay their Internet or electric bill? What if the parent loses their job and can't afford it, has to relocate for a new job where there's no decent (or any) internet access. Yeah, I'm reaching with the last couple, but there's a lot of legitimate issues that can apply, where even if it's not the 14-year old's fault, they are not in control of the life they live in yet and anything can happen.

Redundant failure; As mentioned above, other issues are involved. Now not only do you have to count on one person being skilled, responsible, ethical and committed (even at a young age or not), you have to also enter the parents and entire family life into the equation and any problems at home, financially or worse, with the parents affect everyone, including the kid at home. Worse, is any family problems. The office environment isn't entered into the equation anymore. You are now at the mercy of any family issues that kids face which adults do not and can deal with differently if they do -- and it certainly is less likely to affect their business. This can all affect your business and how you interact or provide service to your clients.

There are other elements involved as well. Yes, a 14 year old could do well, maybe if they are on home study and nothing went wrong and they were a responsible, moral person with technical and business skills, but that is so very rare at that age. I say it's great if you want to get an early start and run such a business, but I don't think anyone with a site that relies on the elements that a 14 year old couldn't provide if it came down to it and was the right circumstances. My actual point is that there are valid reasons why it's wrong, but also that it can work, but it's rarely -- and that anyone that doesn't want to go with such a company doesn't have to anyway, so if you want to, go for it, if not, there's a lot of experienced and skilled companies out there that can meet the requirements too.

Ultimately, I don't think it'll matter for a lot of people, as long as you're honest on your site, but how many people say the age of themselves or staff in that case? I think the problem is where people don't know and then find out their age after problems and that gets people worried it's just a fact with younger people. I wonder how many younger people run businesses that we don't know are that young simply because there's been no problems? At the same time, I don't see any really successful or experienced businesses ran by such young people and I think there's a reason for that. I'm trying to be fair and there are a lot of reasons why there's problems with it. I don't expect that any 14 year old running a business will agree though.

I don't think age matters.


You could have the most mature 12 year old, and the most immature 45 year old, and it wouldn't matter.

Originally posted by bandwidth
I am 15 and i would have to say there are advantages and disadvantages to my hosting company..
Disadvantages:
-School: definatly a major disadvantage considering thats 8 hours of non sleeping time that i am not able to provide for my customers.
-Chores/Homework/Punished: these add to the time not spent making sure my customers are all doing well.
-Age: people dont respect what i can offer.
-Legal issues: already talked about a lot in this post

Advantages: yes there are some.
-Small: my customers are in a small community and most are local. And a lot are friends and friends of friends. I am on a first name basis with all my customers. I email them and ask how they are doing instead of waiting for them to ask me for help.
-Also i am not out to make a living so i am not in it for the money. More for a hobby. So i usually put most of the profit back into the company, which in turn makes my customers more happy.
-I designed most of my customers sites and they are mostly brochure sites, so my customers dont need a lot of customer support, and when they do, they know when and how to reach me.

Overall i think i am at no disadvantage being a youngin and i enjoy the experience. And throughout highschool and college who knows, i might be able to build a strong enough base to be able to use that as my profession after college.

Good points. Also there is another advantage. Since you don't need the profit and can therefore undersell everyone, you get to have cheaper plans. Of course the con to that is that you can't commit the same amount of time and have the same experience and skills as someone that's been doing it longer, so it's a trade off.

Originally posted by dreamHOBO
I don't think age matters.


You could have the most mature 12 year old, and the most immature 45 year old, and it wouldn't matter.

Of course age matters, and people have given reasons throughout this thread. Yes it can come down to the person, but most people that are 12 and 14 are more immature than most people that are 45. Also, a 45 year old isn't told what to do which can have an affect on the business. Of course, all the other reasons people mentioned about the time, commitment, legalities, etc. all come into play as well. So of course it matters. That's not to say it changes how the person is (mature or not, smart or not), but just the circumstances. If a 14 year old had the same advantages as an 18 year old in the US and a 16 year old in the UK, then it'd not even be a discussion, because then it would come down to the person (their maturity, business sense, attitude, skills, etc.), just like any other company owner. For now, it does matter though, because of those reasons. I'm not sure what someone can disagree on to assume it doesn't matter? If you mean for you personal, sure, that's fine.

Don't forget that stuff like beanie babies and Subway were started by "kids". Bill gates programmed his first software when he was 13 and sold his first at 17. I don't think age matters. I mean, sure, we have all seen 14 year olds try and fail badly at business, but who said they could represent each and every teen there is? Just like those who have succeeded, they are still at a small number.

Besides, think about it this way. People like Timmy, have been banned from the boards but how much money did he run away with? 10bucks may not mean anything to one person, but multiply it by the number of people he's cheated and you probably will get at least a thousand. And from what kind of people did he get it from? Adults- the same people who think that they are old enough, mature enough to tell what's right and wrong. So who won in the end? He certainly got what he wanted which was money he ran off with. How many of those he dealt with actually got their refunds?

14 year old kids are unreliable? Adults are smarter? Open your eyes, take a look at those around you and realise that there are exceptions to every stereotype. I know 40 year olds who still can't even communicate properly, let alone do business.

It's typical of society, and this board in effect, to stereotype younger people. Have you ever watched the news? All you get stuffed down your throat is that teens now are lazy, pill popping, pot smoking, failures. We are disrespectful and don't care about anyone. I'd say that is about 10% of children today.

Do you ever hear about the sucessful 14 year old? No. No one really cares. But believe you and me, if a 14 year old failed, you would hear about it.


Even if you people think you are older and more mature than me and my younger counterparts, you still act immature, and childishly stereotype.

No one is stereotyping anyone in this thread. Completely valid reasons of the differences have been discussed and explained. No one said that a 14 year old couldn't, just that it's less likely they could as well as an adult, for those reasons. A stereotype would actually be to assume that younger people are smarter or more apt to this business and the technical aspects. That too isn't true. As you said, it all comes down to the person. Yes, that is true, but there are other issues at hand, unfortunately, as mentioned above that are completely valid and relevant points outlining the differences in a manner that shows it's less common, less likely and higher risk.

Originally posted by phpcoder
1. Can't legally bind contracts
2. School

I don't have a problem with people working for hosting companies that are that age... as the company will most likely setup some kind of system so that it can still perform even if he/she is not available. If they provide good service, skills, etc, then all the power to them.

However, I think that 14yr's old to own/run a company is a bad idea.
No offence, but aren't you of a similar age? :eek:

Originally posted by dreamHOBO
It's typical of society, and this board in effect, to stereotype younger people. Have you ever watched the news? All you get stuffed down your throat is that teens now are lazy, pill popping, pot smoking, failures. We are disrespectful and don't care about anyone. I'd say that is about 10% of children today.

Do you ever hear about the sucessful 14 year old? No. No one really cares. But believe you and me, if a 14 year old failed, you would hear about it.


Even if you people think you are older and more mature than me and my younger counterparts, you still act immature, and childishly stereotype.
Tru, but a bit exaggerated, you do hear about successful teens, just not in the mainstream media..

Originally posted by 2host.com
No one is stereotyping anyone in this thread.

Originally posted by 2host.com
Of course age matters, and people have given reasons throughout this thread. Yes it can come down to the person, but most people that are 12 and 14 are more immature than most people that are 45.

Originally posted by dreamHOBO
It's typical of society, and this board in effect, to stereotype younger people. Have you ever watched the news? All you get stuffed down your throat is that teens now are lazy, pill popping, pot smoking, failures. We are disrespectful and don't care about anyone. I'd say that is about 10% of children today.

Do you ever hear about the sucessful 14 year old? No. No one really cares. But believe you and me, if a 14 year old failed, you would hear about it.


Even if you people think you are older and more mature than me and my younger counterparts, you still act immature, and childishly stereotype.

Do you really equate people's reasons in this thread to believing everything they hear and see on TV or in a news paper and forming opinions on that without thinking? Also, what do you mean by "you people" when you say that they act more immature and childishly stereotype? What post are you applying that to and by whom? Perhaps I missed the post where someone did/said such things?

Originally posted by Xandra




That is not a stereotype. Think about what you're saying in response to something so innocent. You're telling me that more 12 year olds are more mature than most 45 year olds? Please document this. I think you're being overly sensitive to the comments here. These are accurate and valid points, they are not meant to offend you.

Originally posted by chrisb
Call me old-fashion, but I think yard work and delivering newspapers is more suitable for a 14-year old.
Kids need exercise at that age while their bones develop, and don't need to be sedentary on a computer for hours on end. They also need the outside world for developing their social skills.
You're old-fashioned. :D

Originally posted by 2host.com


That is not a stereotype. Think about what you're saying in response to something so innocent. You're telling me that more 12 year olds are more mature than most 45 year olds? Please document this. I think you're being overly sensitive to the comments here. These are accurate and valid points, they are not meant to offend you.
I wouldn't say MORE mature, but mature enough to a certain extent.

I am 17 and I have a webhosting company. I can confidently say I am more mature than the average person my age. I was incarcerated from the age of 13 to 15. When I was 15 I was released and I learned a lot about life when I was locked up. I know it is a bad idea telling people that I was incarcerated however it is a good defense for me when people tell me that I am not ready to run a webhosting company.

School is a big problem, however I am invaluable at my school and they realize that. They have setup special classes just for me at the school where I am able to go around to the different schools in my district and service the computers. I know all of the teachers in the school district very well and they respect me highly.

I designed my Internet Service Provider's website and he has me make house calls for him sometimes when he is busy or unavailable. The school also created a class for me that is dedicated to my High School's website, they realize that I do not have time to work on that outside of school. I do not get a lot of homework anymore but when I do they give me extra time to work on it because they are proud of me, they respect my accomplishments, and they want to see me succeed.

There are a lot of people pushing for me and I know I am in a different situation than a lot of these younger webhosts. I know that I have things worked out for me to keep things going. I am not saying I am better than them but I have the resources to be successful, stay in school and keep my customers satisfied all at the same time.

That is my two cents.

I knew this would be an interesting topic :)

Originally posted by FloHost
I am 17 and I have a webhosting company. I can confidently say I am more mature than the average person my age. I was incarcerated from the age of 13 to 15. When I was 15 I was released and I learned a lot about life when I was locked up. I know it is a bad idea telling people that I was incarcerated however it is a good defense for me when people tell me that I am not ready to run a webhosting company.

School is a big problem, however I am invaluable at my school and they realize that. They have setup special classes just for me at the school where I am able to go around to the different schools in my district and service the computers. I know all of the teachers in the school district very well and they respect me highly.

I designed my Internet Service Provider's website and he has me make house calls for him sometimes when he is busy or unavailable. The school also created a class for me that is dedicated to my High School's website, they realize that I do not have time to work on that outside of school. I do not get a lot of homework anymore but when I do they give me extra time to work on it because they are proud of me, they respect my accomplishments, and they want to see me succeed.

There are a lot of people pushing for me and I know I am in a different situation than a lot of these younger webhosts. I know that I have things worked out for me to keep things going. I am not saying I am better than them but I have the resources to be successful, stay in school and keep my customers satisfied all at the same time.

That is my two cents.
I'm very happy for you, it's great to have understanding people around you who care and tries to help you succeed.
(I think i'm jealous :D)

Experience is soooo important with soooo many things. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. Ever rode a bicycle? Caught a ball? Kissed a gal? Taken a test? Played a musical instrument? Walked? Fed yourself? Tied your shoes? Were you better at any of these things the first time you tried than you are now, or would the opposite be more accurate? "Practice makes perfect" ... experience is gained with practice. Anyone can do the math.

Inventing a widget, selling it, getting rich, and then going out of business because of bad business choices only prevents others from purchasing more of those widgets. Taking control of someone's files, which in many cases contain very private information, and affecting their business presence on the Internet for hours, days, weeks, or more is a very different scenario. Some folks simply need to consider this and choose their host on the side of caution. Not because the adult wont screw up worse than the teen might, but because they have a better chance of being able to hold the adult accountable for their actions.

I, like FloHost, got an early start on life. I was emancipated (legally considered an adult responsible and accountable for my own actions) at age 15 and had three kids by the age of 18. This included the ability to completely ruin my credit before I totally understood what credit was. Webhosting at that time may have been just the ticket to get me going much better and faster than the alternative route I had to take BUT as I sit here today experienced in the web hosting industry I KNOW my company probably would've failed due to my lack of knowledge and experience. Often times it takes mistakes to gain knowledge, the main point of the "parenting" type posts in this thread, I believe are an attempt to encourage a teen to learn first and take the shot at adulthood later...

With that said... The original question was: If the owner is mature enough, has good business skills, and provides a good service, then why would it matter how old the person is? For those that have stayed on topic of the original question, you'll note that it is assumed the teen in question has "good business skills, and provides good service". The response to why does it matter how old they are, considering they DO have these skills boils down to "power", in this case the lack of power.

The teen has less power due to the restrictions that can be placed on them by their legal guardians and by the law. If you remove EVERYTHING else out of it, that's the bottom line. The teen is simply incapable of being held accountable for their actions and this would be cause for concern by anyone who may need to hold them accountable.

There are plenty of humans in general that will be good at what they do, and plenty more that wont be, regardless of age. This is why we have to do our homework and decide if the human we choose stacks up "good enough" for our needs. The age is something that is added to our overall list of plus and minuses when making that decision. The reason age matters has been included in this thread.

The same "age" issue can be held against the company in general. Many teens and adults alike in this forum recommend the question "Is the host less than 1 year old?" when choosing a host. Why should the age of the host matter? What difference does it make if it is 2 days old vs 2 years old vs 10 yrs old? The 2 day old host has a chance of succeeding and the 10 year old host can fail. Yet we continue to ask that question though because we believe experience does matter. It does not mean we wont choose to go with the 2 day old host, but the 2 day old host certainly didn't receive brownie points for being so young.

Originally posted by 2host.com


That is not a stereotype. Think about what you're saying in response to something so innocent. You're telling me that more 12 year olds are more mature than most 45 year olds? Please document this. I think you're being overly sensitive to the comments here. These are accurate and valid points, they are not meant to offend you.
What's the difference between stereotyping and generalising? No, I'm not telling you that I think more 12 year olds are mature than 45 year olds. If I did, that would make me a hypocrite wouldnt it? I did however, give a few examples in my last post.

If you think me expressing myself, just like you, would mean that I'm offended, then I guess you should've put up a disclaimer below your posts, telling people to not reply. You've quoted my post. Does it mean you are over sensitive? Please, humour me just this once.

i think age does matter but if your 14 and know how to work everything you should be fine... I'm 14 and starting my own webhost i am also a manager for my mom's resturant. So if you know what you are doing, you can do anything. Also yes school does affect your support and homework but what if you have people that are 19 and up and work for you with support? well then you should have a great webhost.. I have about 6-7 staff for support...

by the way to have a really good support system you should have

1) E-mail support
2) Live Support (AIM,ICQ,Chat Rooms)
3) Message boards support
4) P.O BOX or address
5) telephone support

How are you going to pay your 6-7 staff members? One can only work for free for so long.

all of them are my friends that i have known for 1 year to 14 years and like i told them since i am just getting started i can only pay alittle a week for now, but later on i will pay more. I get the money from my webhost, programming, my other job, birthday, donations ect....

LOL.."I get the money from my...birthday". That sounds immature to me, but whatever, cash is cash I suppose.

lol :D

This is a silly thread.
Ofcourse age doesnt matter.

In the end its all about the skills the person has, the age doesnt matter.

My little brothers friend lives in the forrest, like 20km outside the civilisation here in Sweden, no TV or nothing.

He got his first computer 4 years ago, when he was 12.
He doesnt have internet, not even now, not even on modem.

The guy started to learn C and C++, now hes 16 (soon 17), after school he works for a company, and guess what, hes the project manager.

He has 8 educated ppl under him, and some of them are like 40+.

Age DOES not matter, its about the skill.

I would just like to say that alot of you who are saying you wouldnt get hosted by a company run by a 14 year old, are probably well beyond what a 14 year old could offer. I doubt many 14 year olds own a data center where you could get a colo. I also doubt any 14 year olds sell managed servers. If you guys were the regular joe schmoe who wants a website to talk about his band, or to give contact info for their small buisness, then having a company run by a 14 year old wouldnt matter at all.

And thank you Lurleene and Limbo for understaning where i was ocming from on my previous post.

Originally posted by Xandra
What's the difference between stereotyping and generalising?


I did neither. I stated a fact in response to someone's claim that 12 and 14 year olds are more mature. I didn't say they can't be.


No, I'm not telling you that I think more 12 year olds are mature than 45 year olds.


Then you agree with my statement, so what's the problem with it and where do you assume it's stereotyping?


If I did, that would make me a hypocrite wouldnt it?


No, because to say that is not a stereotype. It's not a "common generalization" (which would more accurately describe what stereotyping is and the difference). I would have to question the claim though.


I did however, give a few examples in my last post.


Yes.


If you think me expressing myself, just like you, would mean that I'm offended,


I never said that. It was the context of your response that indicated that. You quoted my comment about more 12 year olds are more immature than most 45 year olds. That's not a stereotype, it's a fact. You seemed to equate that comment to meaning that I said that no 12 year old could be more mature and I never said that. That was the reason why I commented that it wasn't said to offend you. When people assume I meant something that bothers them, I usually assume they misunderstood (or don't agree) and are offended. I fail to understand why else someone would say I was stereotyping anyone, especially since it would be wrong. In general, 12 year olds are less mature than 45 year olds. That is not a stereotype and I don't see why you'd make an issue about it? I'm not arguing with you, I'm just a little confused about your reaction and to say it was stereotyping.


then I guess you should've put up a disclaimer below your posts, telling people to not reply.


As you can see, you're making more out of this than there is and that doesn't apply.


You've quoted my post. Does it mean you are over sensitive?


Yes I quoted it, as it helps keep the comments related to the content you respond to, keeping it on topic and usually results in less confusion. Of course that doesn't mean I'm over sensitive. I posted that it looked like you were, if you thought my comment was stereotyping in nature. You did say that in a post above after all.


Please, humour me just this once.

I'm not sure what accounts for that sort of comment, but I can see this is going no where. That's okay. Again, no offense was meant. Don't read too much into things to find a reason to comment in opposition (if you are, I'm not accusing you of having done that -- I'm just confused where you got the idea you did is all). I'll end on that note, I don't wish to debate or argue about this and what I "actually meant".

Originally posted by Deb
I was emancipated (legally considered an adult responsible and accountable for my own actions) at age 15 and had three kids by the age of 18. This included the ability to completely ruin my credit before I totally understood what credit was.
WOW. :eek: All I can say Deb is, congrats for getting where you were to where you now are. :agree:

:blush: :nuts:

I use to be hosted by a company and about a month into it I started experiencing downtime. Then I found out the company was run by a whole bunch of teenagers. I was pissed. I think that if you're buying hosting from someone underage then they should have to mention somewhere on their site that they are underaged. I don't like the idea at all of handing my money over to a kid.

Plus how much experience can a 14 year old have? I doubt many 14 year olds have done tech support for other businesses...

The main problem I see with 14 yr olds running a web host company is this; a 14 year old does not have a family to feed a house payment to make or lives that depend on them to bring food in every day. To most of the younger host an extra $150 a month they make off a server pays the car payment. They sell the hosting plans cheap and reap a little profit from it. They do not need to make large sums so it is not hard to under cut the pricing.

Now from a customer point of view on the surface that sounds great, but what happens later in life when that money is not enough? What happens when they get board? They close shop and move on leaving hundreds of accounts without.
A 14 year old has less to lose than some one doing this for a living and our families our staff's families depend on us. If times get tough at 14 you can close and go live off mom and dad a while at 45 if times get tough you better get tough and make it work or your family suffers. At 14 you do not understand the responsibility of others depending on you for their lives.

What about the people that have put their trust in you? Some of them are running businesses have their hopes and dreams wrapped up in that web site on you server. When you close and leave them high and dry their lives are affected much more than you think.

Sure at 14 you think you are mature enough to handle it and no you are not going to fail you have the technical skills. But you are missing the all important life skills that can only be gained thru living.

I too at 14 thought I knew it all, had all it took. I got married at 16 had my own business at 15, but it was not until I had failed several times lost it all and built it back up that much later in life did I realize I did not know and still do not know half of what life is all about.

If you are really mature and sure about yourself tell your customers your age and if they decide to host with you great, but if you lie make out like you are older than you are, then you are scamming and someone is going to get hurt.

...i appreciate those of you who are younger than an age which binds you to a legal contract and which bars you from entering into a legal contract for posting your stories, and venting your proud admissions that you are so young and so capable...

... i hope those of you who are not younger than an age which binds you to a legal contract and permits you to enter into a legal contract make notes of the names and pseudo-company names of the brave crusaders who have established themselves as competent to have under their control access to any and all of your most sensitive information...

...i hope that you refer to those notes if you are in need of hosting, so you will not have to wonder next year what happened to the 14 year old who gave it all up for the next whim, or scheme, or boyfriend, or girlfriend or/and any of hundreds of other distractions inevitably thrust into young lives by the very nature of the energy of youth itself...

...finally, for those of you who are younger than an age which binds you to a legal contract and which bars you from entering into a legal contract, i hope for a day which comes soon, very soon, tomorrow if possible, where only those legally able to enter into contracts, who form legitimate business entities which they then register with proper agencies are made to prove their businessworthiness before being allowed to provide services in exhange for money on the internet...

...do i stereotype teens under the legal age as unbusinessworthy?

...yes, i do...

...wholeheartedly, without shame or guilt about it...

...and until the law changes regarding the legal status and rights of minors, my stereotype applies to 100% of the underage population, with no exceptions, regardless of computer skills, intelligence, maturity and experience... i have no other legal option but to stereotype the legally disabled...

...of course, i can take the stance of a crusader for the rights of youth worldwide, and knowingly enter into business arrangements with them just to show those stupid f***ing adults that kids are as competent as they are...

...but i won't... because they're not... legally, that is...

...for you younger people providing services as "hosting companies", the least you could do would be to post a disclaimer in your fine print: "we at readytobeadults.com feel we must inform you that we are owned by a 14 year old mature person who has 19 year old mature persons helping out until whenever that changes for whatever reason. that being said, we have nothing to hide. if you still want our services, we welcome you with open, mature, not legally binding arms." ...

...please uncle george, or uncle ashcroft, end this nightmare of underage brats giving the hosting business a bad name...from: i.b. linuks, ceo, readytobeadults.com...all those great control panels!! they make it soooo easy to lie!! ...don't like my opinion? sue me... :dunce:

14 year owned should not be allow to own a business not to talk of running one. They need to be in school period.

I disagree highly with most of you, some of the greatest known hackers are 15, and they are rhitoric enough to get a telecom's security to give them access to vital infromation over a phone line, and have a better knowledge of internet protocols, programming languages, and alot else that most of us might ever....

Its true this isnt a common case, but it does happen, In most cases someone under 18 cant own a business, but he can manage one. As everyones said and is aware he cant legally bind contracts with his signatue, but he can still manage it and the owner or an older employee sign for him

Being that young and attempting to run a hosting business comonly dosent work becuase they have school, and they need sleep to survive, whilst operating a hosting company takes countless hours of work daily more than a kid can or is willing to spare....

Just my idealism -dan

Originally posted by cyhosting
14 year owned should not be allow to own a business not to talk of running one. They need to be in school period.

??

Originally posted by ninji

...

some of the greatest known hackers are 15, and they are rhitoric enough to get a telecom's security to give them access to vital infromation over a phone line, and have a better knowledge of internet protocols, programming languages, and alot else that most of us might ever....

...

Just my idealism -dan

You watch and believe _way_ too many movies. There are some 15 year olds that are capable and some good, but it would be incredibly rare that one would be any threat. Anyone can call the right person and do some social engineering and most of these kids run tools other people have made. It's a poor stereotype, speaking of those, to think that younger people are better with technology. A lot of us people over 20 and 25 (and much older than that for many) are those that were messing around in the mid to late 70's and early 80's having fun -- before things like this were frowned upon. A 15 year old computer wiz that can "hack" (do you mean "crack"?) would be a rarity.

I don't really care how much people defend teenage company owners, the fact remains, unless some have defeated evolution, that the brain isn't fully developed and not capable of making well-thought decisions.

Why do you think we all were called "minors" at some point?

why dont younger people go out and get a partner thats over 21...that way the partner can do some of the legal requirements....

Clockwork; Well, there are some exceptions, but I don't think it's common. Nevertheless, there's nothing so complex that a 14 year old couldn't do it enough of the time technically, but there is more than technical aspects to it, which is what I'm sure you also meant and it's uncommon for it to be otherwise, even if there is the rare exception. 10 year olds graduating with medical and law degrees from Harvard isn't too common, even if it's happened (I admit that's pretty impressive though).

PS: I didn't get a chance to respond to your post the other day in another thread (and then it was locked). I confused you with another clock* user (not that he's a bad guy). I just try not to read too much into things, because reading too much into it, can be just as much of a mistake as not reading enough into it -- and hadn't seen his other posts about it. Apologies for the oversight.

Originally posted by HeadMaster


Dear friend,

Real business is defined as:

- Having a company/office, under a certain name.
- Holding the business license as whether Inc. , LLC and etc.
- Recruiting a group of professional staff in every field available, in the company, so that they may deliver unparalleled service and support to customers.
- Having the bank account under the company's name.
-.....
-.....

P.S: Not all of them are necessary.

In anyway you can make money, but different between official business way and unofficial way.

Look at this: http://www.youngbiz.com/yb_mag_news/2001youngbiz100/main.htm

Many young people have your requirements:

- Having a company/office, under a certain name.
- Holding the business license as whether Inc. , LLC and etc.
- Recruiting a group of professional staff in every field available, in the company, so that they may deliver unparalleled service and support to customers.
- Having the bank account under the company's name.

Actually, to be honset - I get calls from local kids in school all the time looking for a job. I've had 16 year olds with resume's that say they own and operate they're own business.

As for the legal ramifications, they just can't be an executive... They can own 100% of the shares of the business. Not that I trust them, but my point is:

The hosting business is too easy to get into - we have kids going and getting a resellers account for $20/month and starting to sell and make money. Once summers over though the support goes down the drain as with your money when his mom makes him do homework instead of fixing a down server.

Originally posted by refcom
...

The hosting business is too easy to get into

...



Any business online is a victim to that. You can't see who you're dealing with. having nothing to do with issues of age, but many variables. The same is for any postal mail business. In person or over the phone is more difficult and people will decide then and there if they want to do business with the person or company due to a variety of reasons.

There's no way to stop or control businesses online, so things can happen (for the good or bad). Web hosting is only easy to get into for people, because of programs like control panels do all the generic and basic work for them. Without those, people would be forced to have skills.

I'm sure many of you, like me, have had a large amount of people ask very basic questions (even how to use simple shell commands or ask what SSH is), yet they own hosting businesses and get away with it by using a control panel, until a problem comes up or the control panel can't do what they need. Other online businesses are just as easy to get into as well.

I ran my own webdesign, and webhosting reseller business when i was 14. I openly admitted my age to customers and they had no problem with it, as long as the product or service I produced was top notch.

And in reference to Akash several hundred posts back - I had my dad behind me so there wasn't a "legal" problem and he was actively involved in teching me the basics of business. I was a registered business in Canada, with a tax number, and a business bank account. Had no employees however I contracted work to people if I couldn't do it myself, due to expertise.

Unless I told my customers I was 14, they had absolutely no idea because I was professional. That is what separates a good business man from a bad one; professionalism. I even worked through school without missing a beat and was making 5 times the salary my friends were making at their minimum wage jobs. :)

The problem comes when 14 year olds fake their age - then there would be a problem. :)

I'm 19 now - would you want to do business with me? :D

For those of you who fall under the mis-conception that a business can't legally be run by a 14-year old - think again. It does happen all the time, and legally. Starting a business is easy for a young, dedicated mind without any stress - think about the things we did when we were young!

A youth of 14 years can own 100% shares of a company, and have the title "Secretary" or "Treasurer" but not Director or Officer... His Mom will have to hold this. This youth can in fact make every business decision at shareholder meetings and in the day to day business if he appoints himself to do so...

It is all Legal. But, I agree most with the simple point: school. Even if they can do it legally I still don't think its right. Its a great experience for them, but school is more important - what does a 14year old do if:

1) They start hosting...
2) They make $5000/month
3) Wow - thats a LOT for a 14year old.
4) Drop out of school
5) Three years later, business fails.
6) 17-year old doesnt want to go to school with 14year olds...
7) Does correspondance... enters depression cause he sees no friends at his virtual school and the only thing he put most of his teen years into failed...

Is this what we want our Children doing? Not for me, thanks. I'll let them listen to "enimem" and that rap stuff, watch R movies, and do other generally harmless things that help them learn - but my kids will always have school before business.

Originally posted by refcom

...

7) Does correspondance... enters depression cause he sees no friends at his virtual school and the only thing he put most of his teen years into failed...

...



Hey! Finish the story, don't leave us all hanging! :-)

I would not do business with a 14 year old. Sorry let me rephrase that I would not do business with a teenager again.

I just signed a design client that does 18 mill. a year and having their site hosted by a 14 year old would give me even more gray hairs. ( client is going inhouse for his server, and I would never put him on a virtual account)


What ever happened to just being a kid?

What about students who advanced quicker than others through school and finished his HSC by the age of 17? (Instead of 18)??

There are a few good business thinking students out there. Many schools (in Australia anyhow), have classes since the age of 14 learning business ethics and practices..

By the time they have finished school, early or late, they know quite a bit :)

Infact, some say they know more than 40 year old adults with a uni degree - What can I say.. the schooling system in Australia is just.. well pretty good. The students may not like it but it is good.


Ahhh.. I am talking about Catholic school's here.. the government school's aint TO crash hot.. but they are still alright :)

Originally posted by 2host.com
I did neither. I stated a fact in response to someone's claim that 12 and 14 year olds are more mature. I didn't say they can't be.
Wouldnt stereotyping begeneralising or making a conclusion out of incomplete facts. You havent interviewed the world, have you. You've just looked at members of this board... most of them biased adults like yourself. I call that generalising.



Then you agree with my statement, so what's the problem with it and where do you assume it's stereotyping?
Nope, I don't. Just because I'm not willing to spend my time writing a 10 page essay trying to convince you doesn't make me your supporter. I've expressed that from the first post I've made in this thread. Not all 45 year olds are as smart as they claim to be.



No, because to say that is not a stereotype. It's not a "common generalization" (which would more accurately describe what stereotyping is and the difference). I would have to question the claim though.
Pick up a dictionary and look up the words, "stereotype", "generalise" and "common generalisation".



I never said that. It was the context of your response that indicated that. You quoted my comment about more 12 year olds are more immature than most 45 year olds. That's not a stereotype, it's a fact. You seemed to equate that comment to meaning that I said that no 12 year old could be more mature and I never said that. That was the reason why I commented that it wasn't said to offend you. When people assume I meant something that bothers them, I usually assume they misunderstood (or don't agree) and are offended. I fail to understand why else someone would say I was stereotyping anyone, especially since it would be wrong. In general, 12 year olds are less mature than 45 year olds. That is not a stereotype and I don't see why you'd make an issue about it? I'm not arguing with you, I'm just a little confused about your reaction and to say it was stereotyping.
I didn't say that but a response I typed out indicated that? Do I see a paradox here? Please... make up your mind and stop making your "generalisations" and faslse deductions. I think this is your third one in this thread so far. If you can't stand to have your views challenged, keep them to yourself.



As you can see, you're making more out of this than there is and that doesn't apply.No, I don't see. All I can see is a guy who needs to be back in English class.



Yes I quoted it, as it helps keep the comments related to the content you respond to, keeping it on topic and usually results in less confusion. Of course that doesn't mean I'm over sensitive. I posted that it looked like you were, if you thought my comment was stereotyping in nature. You did say that in a post above after all.
Yes, and I still stick to my earlier conclusion.


I'm not sure what accounts for that sort of comment, but I can see this is going no where. That's okay. Again, no offense was meant. Don't read too much into things to find a reason to comment in opposition (if you are, I'm not accusing you of having done that -- I'm just confused where you got the idea you did is all). I'll end on that note, I don't wish to debate or argue about this and what I "actually meant".
Neither do I, so quit your assumptions.

I think this post from another thread says it well:
Most of the younger people I have dealt with do not fully have the concept of work responsibility down, You tend to have to hound them to get work done/keep them on track.

How many 14-15 year olds do you know that have had time to learn about pride of there work.. Most teenages flip burgers for money and don't enjoy it, They are there so they can buy a car thats it.

The ones that are doing tech work, have prob never held a real job in there life.. They are smart sure, I will give most of them that but they just have not grown up enough to take a job seriously.
--

Youngins may be smart and sometimes more skilled than their elders, but there's more to running a company than tech smarts. I'm finding it hard to find a reliable host in an 'industry' run mostly by kids who spend their days fighting on WHT (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73075) rather than running a company :\

By all means, if you're techy, find a tech job or a part timer with a current host helping them setup accounts etc. But taking on your own company without prior work experience will only lead your company to an early death.

any flame posts may be sent directly to my PM box thank you.

Originally posted by FloHost
I was incarcerated from the age of 13 to 15. When I was 15 I was released and I learned a lot about life when I was locked up.


Soooooooo...what did you do? Kill someone? Get caught stealing hot wheels from Walmart? Been sharing a cell with Kevin Mitnick? Huh?


Anyway...here's how I see it.

Kid starts a company when he's like 13 or 14, next thing you know he starts to notice girls and gets a little chubby if you know what I mean. :D Then enters high school and we all know how that can be, with extra curricular activities like drama, sports, band. Those 3 require extra time outside of school for practice.

What happens when the server goes down and he is on stage playing Fiddler on the Roof and singing "If I were a rich man"

Or he/she is in the high school band and the server goes down on a Friday night. I'm sitting here waiting for a response on a support ticket while the host is marching around a damn football field honking on a slide trombone!

Then the kid turns 16 and gets a drivers license and mommy/daddy buys them a Honda civic. They soon lose interest in webhosting and wants to spend all their time ricing up their Honda with stupid little stickers, wing on the trunk, chrome fire extinguishers and oversized exhaust pipes.

At 18, kid either joins the military, slacks off or goes off to college. He will spend most of his time in the dorm room trying to keep up but gets distracted by the Hall hockey games, the coed next door coming in to borrow a towel or those wacky frat parties. Kid is out at 1am guzzling down a beer bong and hasn't turned his computer on in over a week.

Sunday night he finally turns it back on at 10pm, instead of answering emails, he is frantically typing a 10 page report on Renaissance Europe that is due by 9am the next morning. He finally gets it done, turns it in and crashes for a little nap. Wakes up at 5pm, heads off to the cafeteria for dinner and back to the dorm to catch Monday Night Football or Wrestling and he still hasn't answered that email about the server being down.

MilkMan:

:emlaugh:


you must have went to college? i know alot of kids that go to LSU. eeehehehehehehe :stickout

Originally posted by 2host.com


You watch and believe _way_ too many movies. There are some 15 year olds that are capable and some good, but it would be incredibly rare that one would be any threat. Anyone can call the right person and do some social engineering and most of these kids run tools other people have made. It's a poor stereotype, speaking of those, to think that younger people are better with technology. A lot of us people over 20 and 25 (and much older than that for many) are those that were messing around in the mid to late 70's and early 80's having fun -- before things like this were frowned upon. A 15 year old computer wiz that can "hack" (do you mean "crack"?) would be a rarity.

Strange, ill quote this website now, and i know this for sure cause i live in Umea (http://web.textfiles.com/ezines/OCPP/ocpp07.txt)


Busted-Mohawk



Swedish police nab cannabis promoting hackers

Two young Swedish hackers who turned a Swedish county's home page into an advertisement for pornography and cannabis and broke into the U.S.

space agency's computer system have been tracked down, local media reported.
After a year-long hunt, police in Umea in northern Sweden finally traced the two youths, aged 18 and 15, and seized their computers, the
newspaper Vasterbottens Folkblad said on Wednesday. Police were quoted
as saying no charges would be laid because no economic crime had been committed.

They said the older of the two youths was known to the authorities
after his involvement in a case of illegal data entries and computer fraud two years ago for which an older youth was sent to jail.

Greetings everyone:

There are many children (even younger than teenagers) whose learning skills put most adults to shame; and, who, technically, can run rings around those same adults.

However, knowledge is one thing and wisdom is another.

Wisdom comes with experience and takes time. A parent helping out can lend some wisdom, but only ask it relates to their own experiences in the subject matter.

Futhermore, unless the parent takes an active role in managing the business they may not have all of the information necessary to pass on some of their wisdom and experiences to the children running the show.

Please note that even in the most clean environments where maximum communication is being sought by both parties, there will always be things left unsaid that should have been stated, as well as things misunderstood but not known as being misunderstood.

Lastly, as it was mentioned to death -- children cannot sign legally binding contracts. And while there are legal entities such as corporations and the like that might be formed to allow such events, most contracts do require an officer of the entity to sign that is of age.

Thank you.

When I was 14 I droped out of school to start a hosting and programming business. I couldnt legally drop out I just stoped going working was ALOT more fun and I felt it was better for my future. I started using computers when I was 11 and by that time was an avid c++ programmer, and I felt I knew enough to do what I was(and I still feel at that point I knew more than most of the kids with hosting companys do now).

My original company did indeed fail:
WHY:
Becuase I was 14, and had no clue about business ethics, I had enough techinical skill to do everything I needed. But I wasnt up at 6 am to take business calls, or in any position to hire staff or make any necessary partnerships. I also didnt have any source of income to start the company on which obviously makes it difficult.

However, If I could go back I would still do the same becuase now I own a nationwide ISP, and if I didnt take that huge a step in my life I would probably be a student at MIT, and then get a job for a company like the one I now own only after X years of school.

This isnt telling any of you who may be 14 years old to dropout and try and endup like me, like I said my original company had failed, but it was the learning experience that benefited me.

-Dan

You watch and believe _way_ too many movies. There are some 15 year olds that are capable and some good, but it would be incredibly rare that one would be any threat. Anyone can call the right person and do some social engineering and most of these kids run tools other people have made. It's a poor stereotype, speaking of those, to think that younger people are better with technology. A lot of us people over 20 and 25 (and much older than that for many) are those that were messing around in the mid to late 70's and early 80's having fun -- before things like this were frowned upon. A 15 year old computer wiz that can "hack" (do you mean "crack"?) would be a rarity.

No. Amoung the greatest known 10 hackers alive, one is telsa whom is long dead, 2 are under 16. I dont get my information from hacker movies, I get my information from secuirty confrences, hpvca meetings, security magazines, and detailed message boards. The hacker i speak of is famed especially for his quote "My kung fu is better than yours". If you want that quote and hacker into google.

Criticism on skill by age is poor, You may spend all your time on a computer, but theres kids that spend all their time LEARNING about computers, telecomunications, etc...

The real hacker students dont spend their time running scripts and talking in message boards. They are ALWAYS learning, every free moment is devoted to gaining more information. If one of these people decieds to run a company, I dont care if hes 14, if he knows more about telecommunications and networking than this whole message board, I think he has a right to run a hosting company.

Here's my opinion:
The NORMAL 13-18 year old can not run a successful web hosting business. I think when this was discussed about 6 months ago, Alan of Splashost(Recently turned 19 I believe) said that the normal person of his age could not do what he has done. I agee.

Today we live in a society where we grow up and our parents and teachers tell us you can be whatever you want to be. Someone hears about a 14 year old making it big in web hosting and decides to try it himself. Its too easy to start up a hosting company! I mean rackshack's ad in hosttech says, "Start your own web hosting business today!" for only 99 bucks a month. Other companies use similar slogans for their resellers, and only charge 2 weeks of a 14 year old's allowance for them to get their own account. If they hit up some of their family friends and relatives, they can be paying for their account in almost no time. Their parents will probably start bragging about them, as well as their family and friends which makes the 14 year old feel successful already. The problem is this is an internet company, not a local lemonade stand. People all over the world will see your service and will be able to buy your services. Once you start to grow, and people are asking if you support Java Servlets, is SSH available, what are your bandwidth carriers, and these words are GREEK to the 14 year old. As the client base grows, its just too much for the kid to handle, for all the reasons stated like
School
Its the life of a 14 year old, he may want to go out with friends
Punished by parents for a 2am support call
Not enough education
Going to camp, on vacation, ect.

Now there are exceptions to the rule. I was 14 when I started my hosting business as a reseller in 99. I was able to succeed because:
I went in with 2 other 14/15 year olds who were very smart(1580s on the SAT) and had a good business sense. My father is in the computer industry, and a partner's father was a lawyer(which was invaluable to us). Although they went to school, I was sick most of the time and unable to attend public school, so I was homebound (Sorta like homeschooling but you teach yourself the subjects and take the tests provided by the public school system.) I was at home all day, and teaching myself about computers, business, and web hosting was much more fun than teaching myself Algebra 2. The hosting business is still alive and going strong, and I am proud of it. I'm proud of what I have accomplished, and the experience I have gained.

But 14 year olds getting into this, lend me your ears. If I could exchange all of this for the life of an average teenager..
I WOULD

Originally posted by faculty
What about students who advanced quicker than others through school and finished his HSC by the age of 17? (Instead of 18)??

There are a few good business thinking students out there. Many schools (in Australia anyhow), have classes since the age of 14 learning business ethics and practices..

By the time they have finished school, early or late, they know quite a bit :)


Sorry - but learning from a textbook and real life business experience are two VERY different things. The thing is though, one has to come before the other and guess what - learning the theory has to come first, or people will get burnt - usually the unsuspecting client who didn't do enough research into who he is handing his / her money over to.

I thought i knew it all at 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21.... you get the drift (i'm now >30 <32 :D ), but guess what, even when i went to University and got some qualifications, i thought - well i must have learnt everything now - wrong. Even University is just about getting wide ranging experience in all aspects of grown up life and i find it so sad when young people choose to miss up such valuable life experience and go into work / go into business, let alone the nutters that drop out of school. Ok so many people do drop out and go on to be successful, but they really are the tiny minority.

Would i trust my hosting to a 14 year old. Absolutely no way on this earth - they just don't have the valuable experience, and wisdom.

The thing is though, because the barriers to entry are so low this industry is bound to be overrun by kids - i'd do it for sure (if i could be 14 again). And i probably wouldn't listen to anyone on here that was trying to tell me not to. Why 'cos you're 14 man and you are streetwise now and you know a lot!! LOL. It isn't just hosting that this is going to happen in, there are countless other industries that will face similar problems as technological advances (amongst many other factors) continually allow the barriers to entry to be lowered. So what is the way forward?

a) Allow it to continue?
b) Don't care because you don't compete at the bucket shop end of the market (that most 14 year olds compete in), anyway? (<--Mainly My Choice)
c) Raise the Barriers to Entry?
i. Make it against the law to be in business without a licence? (Pretty darn difficult to do)
ii. Make it illegal to sell rackspace / serverspace to a minor? (They'll only stick a server on the end of an aDSL pipe !!)
iii. Require written statements of the ages of Key company personnel on all Client facing material (when a minor)?
iv. Start an Trade Association that bars Minors from being members, thereby educating the buyers?
I am sure there are many, many more options.

One thing is for sure, i have noticed over the past few years that boards like this have started to become more like playgrounds than serious areas for serious discussion and debate. Perhaps RS, should start an Over18 board with proof of age required? Just a thought.

Just my 2 pence.

Originally posted by markcastle

Perhaps RS, should start an Over18 board with proof of age required? Just a thought.

Just my 2 pence.

They'd lose 50% of their customer base

Not necessarily - I didn't mean get rid of this board (a big proportion of their target market) - but create an additional one. Anyhow like i said just a thought :D

I have to agree though.. while a 14 year old may have good business ethics and practices, when the going gets tough the child may loose maturity about himself and skidadle just like many hosts we have seen on this board :rolleyes:

Originally posted by ninji

This isnt telling any of you who may be 14 years old to dropout and try and endup like me, like I said my original company had failed, but it was the learning experience that benefited me.
[/B]

Yes but did your "learning experience" benefit your customers.
I guess maybe in the sense it could have, because maybe in the future they would be more careful in doing research about the hosting company they're signing up with.

That's one reason I won't sign up with a teen-age host, I would not want to be part of someone's learning experience.

Do you mean to say 30-40 year old males and females don't have learning experiances either?! Haha.. buddy.. everyone has learning experiances. BIG or small..

I think if a 14 year old has the mentality, business ethics, care for people, an idea and manners, then they should go ahead and do what they can.

However, I think the customer deserves the right to know how old the host is.

I also think a lot of this arguement has a lot to do with adults being very jelous and upset about the fact that some 14 year old's in this day and age can do just as much, if not more than the 30 year old.


Go figure.

Originally posted by faculty
I also think a lot of this arguement has a lot to do with adults being very jelous and upset about the fact that some 14 year old's in this day and age can do just as much, if not more than the 30 year old.


Go figure.
I'm sure! I'm jealous over all the 14 year olds who are the best designers I've ever seen!

lol I knew you were jealous of me rewdog ;) hehe except im 16

Originally posted by Xandra
Wouldnt stereotyping begeneralising or making a conclusion out of incomplete facts.


Incomplete? It stands to reason, it's logical and it's nothing that's difficult to believe. Why do you have trouble accepting that more 45 year old people are more mature than more 12 year olds? Don't you think you're being a bit silly? Why are you taking such a reasonable and innocent comment and taking issue with it? Why argue about this? I've said nothing to offend you and you're trying to fight with me about it?


You havent interviewed the world, have you.


No, and nor have you. So unless you want to try and do so yourself and show me that more 12 year olds are more mature than most 45 year olds and prove common sense wrong, then I suggest you just act a little more reasonable. I'm not arguing with you, I'm trying to explain. You're acting the part of someone that's immature (albeit I bet you think I am being immature for "explaining" to you). Note that I'm not arguing with you.


You've just looked at members of this board... most of them biased adults like yourself. I call that generalising.


You're being ridiculous. I've said nothing that is biased. I said such an innocent and reasonable comment that is perfectly within rationalization and common sense. Apparently I can't comment on any such fact without you claiming I'm generalizing. There's no reason to go to such an extreme and since I said nothing offensive or incorrect, I don't see your motivation to be doing this.


Nope, I don't. Just because I'm not willing to spend my time writing a 10 page essay trying to convince you doesn't make me your supporter.


You're right, you'd much rather ignore common sense and argue with me about how I'm wrong. Apparently you have a bone to pick.


I've expressed that from the first post I've made in this thread. Not all 45 year olds are as smart as they claim to be.


Excuse me, but I never said anything about "smart". That is irrelevant to my innocent comment. I never said more 45 year olds are smarter than more 12 year olds. I said more 45 year olds are more mature than more 12 year olds. It's simple and it's innocent. Try not to find things that I didn't say to take issue with.


Pick up a dictionary and look up the words, "stereotype", "generalise" and "common generalisation".


Isn't the irony a little thick today? With all the confusion and misspellings from you and you are taking a non issue, trying to use it as an excuse to fight with someone, and then make such a remark to me? With your attitude, I really have to wonder why you're being so condescending. Just read what I said, don't look for things to fight about in my words -- there's nothing there to argue about.


I didn't say that but a response I typed out indicated that?


Yes, that is correct. You didn't come out and say "I am offended", but your response seems to have definite indications that you were offended. Perhaps I'm wrong and you're just looking to fight with people about non-issues?


Do I see a paradox here?


No. I clearly said your post indicated you were offended. If you aren't, you aren't, but it sure seems to indicate it.


Please... make up your mind and stop making your "generalisations" and faslse deductions.


You sure like to abuse words. I think it's pretty clear that you've got some problem. I've been posting completely sound responses and you intend to fight about it. Perhaps you should try and act a little more mature about this, since it's the topic you're arguing about? If my deduction was false, so be it. I didn't accuse you of anything, I responded to what it seemed. You seem offended in this post too. After all, you're accusing me of things that aren't true and you think it's okay. Why do I need to explain this? The generalization to say more 45 year olds are more mature than most 12 year olds is perhaps a generalization, just as it is to say that most water is wet. That doesn't make it unreasonable or wrong to say it just because some water can be frozen to not be wet.

That doesn't mean I said that wet water is "better" than frozen water, or that frozen water can't melt and be just as wet as any non frozen water. There's no reason for you to want to fight about this. Again, I've said nothing you should take issue with, it's a simple, innocent and sensible comment. You either read too much into it, or you're just trying to... well, who knows what you're trying to do or why, I don't want to falsely deduce why you're trying to fight with someone that didn't give you any reason to. Please go back and read what I said. I never said anything to give you a reason to be acting like this.


I think this is your third one in this thread so far.


Just read what I said, stop looking to fight.


If you can't stand to have your views challenged, keep them to yourself.


My views challenged? The arrogance you convey is getting a little much. Are you going to fight about my name now too, and tell me I can't say that it's my name without you trying to 'challenge' what I said? I can handle your comments just fine. Simply because you want to be arrogant and try and act like I'm somehow threatened, is ridiculous. There's nothing in my comments that anyone in their right mind could take issue with, unless they are just trying to find any excuse for a fight. You should really act more mature and use some common sense. You're not making any sense.


No, I don't see. All I can see is a guy who needs to be back in English class.


Wow, you're really a piece of work. :-)


Yes, and I still stick to my earlier conclusion.


You mean you'll stick to the fact that you want to fight with and insult people, even if there's nothing in their comment that you should be offended by. How someone can so grossly misinterpret such a simple thing as "most 12 year olds are more immature than most 45 year olds" to fight about it and try and insult me with petty and immature remarks, truly says something.


Neither do I, so quit your assumptions.

I assume nothing about you. You're obviously either offended or you simply are looking for a fight with someone (perhaps to try and feel smarter, or that's just how you are?) for no reason at all. There's absolutely no sense to your actions here, nor your fighting attitude. This is beyond rational. I don't understand what set you off, and I know I've said nothing in any of the posts above to offend you or give you reason. I made a simple and innocent comment.

Don't create conflict for yourself and blame me for it. If I actually did do something to make you act this way, I'd apologize and make what I said more clear, but just fighting with me about some non issue leaves me nowhere to avoid this. I didn't intend to respond to you before, and I'm definitely not again. Go find someone else to fight with. It seems you don't need a reason, so it should be pretty easy to find someone else to bother. The irony of the topic of this alone is too much to carry on any reasonable debate, let alone to see you fight. I'm not interested.

Originally posted by Johan H


Strange, ill quote this website now, and i know this for sure cause i live in Umea (http://web.textfiles.com/ezines/OCPP/ocpp07.txt)


Busted-Mohawk



Swedish police nab cannabis promoting hackers

Two young Swedish hackers who turned a Swedish county's home page into an advertisement for pornography and cannabis and broke into the U.S.

space agency's computer system have been tracked down, local media reported.
After a year-long hunt, police in Umea in northern Sweden finally traced the two youths, aged 18 and 15, and seized their computers, the
newspaper Vasterbottens Folkblad said on Wednesday. Police were quoted
as saying no charges would be laid because no economic crime had been committed.

They said the older of the two youths was known to the authorities
after his involvement in a case of illegal data entries and computer fraud two years ago for which an older youth was sent to jail.

I didn't say that kids don't take tools and use them against sites that are vulnerable to commit these acts (and some crimes as well). It didn't outline what, if any tools they used, how secure, if any, the server was, and so on.

Originally posted by ninji
No. Amoung the greatest known 10 hackers alive, one is telsa whom is long dead, 2 are under 16.


I said for the most part, that most are older. I didn't say none can be younger.


I dont get my information from hacker movies, I get my information from secuirty confrences, hpvca meetings, security magazines, and detailed message boards. The hacker i speak of is famed especially for his quote "My kung fu is better than yours". If you want that quote and hacker into google.


Then you'd know that few people around that age are very good. Few people that age are able to dedicate the time, is why, not because they aren't smart enough to.


Criticism on skill by age is poor,


That depends. I've been in this business for a long time, I've been involved with those communities and that topic and I saw very few people around that age that were any good. If there was, myself and others in that community would have known. It happened, rarely.


You may spend all your time on a computer, but theres kids that spend all their time LEARNING about computers, telecomunications, etc...


What makes you assume that I just "use" computers, while these people are "learning"? Anyone that's qualified at all and has any skills, does the same thing. Not due to their age. This stereotype that more kids have better skills or that they are learning more things, isn't the case.


The real hacker students dont spend their time running scripts and talking in message boards.


That is true.


They are ALWAYS learning, every free moment is devoted to gaining more information.


My point wasn't to say that's not true, my point is to say that so do people that are older.


If one of these people decieds to run a company, I dont care if hes 14, if he knows more about telecommunications and networking than this whole message board, I think he has a right to run a hosting company.

Perhaps. But to just say he knows more because he's young isn't always the case. There are plenty of people that have been doing this for 30 years working on *nix systems, servers and program, etc. They have a ton more experience and knowledge than a person around 15 that's doing the same thing. Many of us that were doing this when we were 7 or 8, and are not in our mid to late 20's (and people that are in their 40's and 50's even), have years of experience more, which equates to a better understanding and better skills.

There are exceptions to every case, indeed. But it's rare that a 15 year old hacker would know more than someone that's been doing it for twice as long as the 15 year old has been alive. I'm not talking about comparing a 15 year old to most adults, because we can compare an adult that knows very little about compares to most other adults and try and act like the guy that knows very little is a wizard with computers. The way you posted that comment previously, seemed a bit off to me. Maybe you didn't mean to have it come out how it did?

After all, that would be like saying that these skills kids now won't be able to learn more as they grow older and get more experience with more things. It's rare that someone with real skills is so young, not that it doesn't happen. My point was people that were so young before, 20 or 30 years ago, have been doing it for that much longer. These smart kids from back then, the one's that built the technology, etc. So, while there are exceptions to most rules, it's rare in this case.

Originally posted by faculty
I also think a lot of this arguement has a lot to do with adults being very jelous and upset about the fact that some 14 year old's in this day and age can do just as much, if not more than the 30 year old.


Go figure.

That could be for some people. However, at the same time anyone could have been doing and learning at any time they were interested. If they want to learn and do it, they can do just as much, assuming they are capable *some people just aren't*.

Originally posted by faculty
Do you mean to say 30-40 year old males and females don't have learning experiances either?! Haha.. buddy.. everyone has learning experiances. BIG or small..

I think if a 14 year old has the mentality, business ethics, care for people, an idea and manners, then they should go ahead and do what they can.

However, I think the customer deserves the right to know how old the host is.

You are entirely right that they should be able to, and other than other issues not related to the 14 year old personally, there's nothing wrong with it. Consider another point though; 30-40 year olds have had more time to invest in learning, knowledge, experience, etc. to develop their kills in many aspects. They have that advantage over the 14 year old. Now, we know that most people aren't that technically skilled and just because they are an adult doesn't mean they've been using their time to their advantage. The adult still has to have interest and been doing it, sure. But there are those that have.

It all depends on what person you're comparing to what person in any of this debate as far as skills and much more goes. You make a good point that 30-40 year olds learn all the time too -- or they can, or should anyway. :-) My point was that assuming a 30-40 year old has been, that assuming that they have the comprehension for these type of things, that they have an advantage. It all comes down to the person and a lot of people have been doing this for a long time and are very good. Most adults in general aren't, true, but a lot are.

Being 14 myself, I may be a bit biased here, but I'd like to make my opinion known.

Personally, I think that anyone who would limit the rights of all children exhibits severe ageism here...not to sound like some politically correct freak here...but saying that "no kids should be running a business or even thinking about it" is one of the most saddening things I believe I have ever heard (yes, a user here said that). The mere notion that someone as old as myself is incapable of comprehending business, is simply ridiculous. I am unsure as to how, without experience in such matters, a new adult is supposed to take the first step into that world? If anything, having experiences as a youth will be extremely beneficial, because it teaches you a lot of things that you would otherwise gain only through time.

First, running a business tests maturity. Maturity to follow the rules, to be willing to take responsibility for your actions, and to carry yourself as an adult. Maturity to make commitments, and to make good on them. The kids you see running web businesses are not bike-riding, bubblegum-chewing preteens that may come to mind; nay, they are the younger image of the businessmen and women of the future. They are suited for this business, and will find their adult ventures far easier having taken similar steps as a youth.

Second, running a business develops business skills and attitudes. Everyone who runs their own business, child or adult, wants to see it succeed in the best of ways. Thus, they will change as necessary to achieve that success. Meaning what? Meaning that they would discover what are proper techniques and attitudes to succeed. Meaning that they are just as capable as adults.

Another thing is develops is skills. Real, honest to god skills. Are the abilities of a fourteen year old irrelevant? Certainly not. You could look at a piece of artwork, a website, anything, and have no idea the age of its designer. How much easier it would be for everyone in this business had they learned at my ripe old age of 14. How much farther they could have come in that same amount of time, if they had begun down that road years earlier.

There are many other traits these prodigies have displayed, but we can all think of them ourselves.

I don't call these young endeavors a waste of time, a wrong, none of that. I call that labeling of these endeavors an unnecessary condemnation. It is not against the law to work at 14. Not for yourself, not for anyone else. Now, things like legally binding contracts, are definitely a problem that will get in their way, but should not completely stop such endeavors. A waste of time is watching television, riding your bike, or playing videogames. Selling services to the world, and making money...calling that a waste of time shocks me. What should I be doing? I do well in school. I do VERY well in school, and I spend a great deal of time studying, doing homework, and sitting in a desk. More time than any adult does. And I spend a lot of time working on my hobby, my interest, my business. They're one in the same, and it's a highly productive, educational, and worthwhile use of time, so long as it does not interfere with other priorities, like school. I call it a priority, because it is. If these young designers do not also see this, only then is there a problem.

I have spent a lot of time on my hobby, the occupation I wish to continue to hold for a long time. I have received a lot of support from my similarly-aged and older peers alike. Many of those friends were not even aware of my being a legal minor, let alone 14 years old. It's that that I stress. If you can't tell a 14 year old from a 25 year old...then wherein lies the problem?

I cannot express my appreciation for those adults who support my position. And I respect the reasoning that it takes away from studying, etc.

Maybe we don't have the wisdom of a thirty year old. And maybe we don't have the experience of one. Maybe we don't know what's right for ourselves. And maybe, by the time we're an adult, we will. How many 21 year olds do you know that started fresh into the business world and had such assets?

If experience and wisdom are valuable assets, what's wrong with getting a head start?

It's kind of a 'duh' thing that more 45 year olds are mature than 14 year olds...but it's an equally 'duh' response that the immature kids aren't running around making business deals.

With that attitude and outlook, I support you.

Those of you who post about experience, how can you get experience if you've never done it before, if your 20 and this is ypur first webhosting buisness you still have barly any experience

Originally posted by LordLardo
Those of you who post about experience, how can you get experience if you've never done it before, if your 20 and this is ypur first webhosting buisness you still have barly any experience

Whether you are 14 or 34, if you are incapable of running a hosting business (or any business for that matter) you are incapable. Period.

There are plenty of ways you can learn and gain experience without diving into an empty pool and starting your own company without knowing what the heck you are doing. I've seen this in this business from people of all ages. They want to be web hosts, but know nothing about running servers and even less about dealing with people.

I don't doubt that there are some 14 year olds that are more than capable of running their own business. I do think that the ones that truly are capable are few and far between. Frankly, I think the same goes for adults.

I know I left this thread quite a few pages ago. But, I just had to stop back in for a minute.

Bear with me. This won't take long. I just have to do something real quick.



:uzi:dbbrock1:smash:


Thanks. I feel better now.





:D

Originally posted by LordLardo
Those of you who post about experience, how can you get experience if you've never done it before, if your 20 and this is ypur first webhosting buisness you still have barly any experience

Well for starters i got a job working for a real Entrepreneur - you would not believe how much you can learn from experienced business people. Then, unwittingly i formed a web hosting company with another Entrepreneur and subsequently got shafted for over a million bucks. He was way more experienced than i was in the "art" of doing business. You REALLY wouldn't believe how much i learnt. Do you think it is coincidence that the over 50's as a rule have the highest dispensible income? Nothing to do with the fact that they have the most experience in "Business" (regardless of industry sector).

Alan of Splashost(Recently turned 19 I believe) said that the normal person of his age could not do what he has done


Recently turned 18, but you were close enough :) I started a company called madhosts doing free hosting when i was 15, this is how i learnt to do what i do now. Then after finishing high school at 16(about to turn 17) i started splashhost, i did own the company but i did have to get my dad to sign the contracts.

Do you think it is coincidence that the over 50's as a rule have the highest dispensible income? Nothing to do with the fact that they have the most experience in "Business" (regardless of industry sector).

Ive got more dispensible income than my dad who is over 50 and runs a business as well :D

Originally posted by SplashHost.com

Ive got more dispensible income than my dad who is over 50 and runs a business as well :D

Good for you but then you are undoubtedly the exception rather than the rule. But then you are not really the main contention of the thread: 14 Yr olds.

Anyone up for writing a script to parse the calendar on here? (I'm too old to do such a tech savy thing :D and i've got to go pick up my pension)

14 is too young..

My final opinion: Age is a unimportant issue. Different people mature faster and have large intelligence spans. If someone really is capable, then that they are. There are no if, ands, or buts. Plan and simple. You can comprehend business and support and provide it or you cant.

Originally posted by dreamHOBO
My final opinion: Age is a unimportant issue. Different people mature faster and have large intelligence spans. If someone really is capable, then that they are. There are no if, ands, or buts. Plan and simple. You can comprehend business and support and provide it or you cant.

I say let them run a company if they want, mature or not.
As long as they have someone of legal age signing the contracts.

Now, what I have a problem with, if they do not clearly state they are a minor that is a bit deceptive.

Why? You don't know who you are really dealing with, I want to be told if I am dealing with a minor or not, and most of the time it is QUITE obvious in the style in which they write of the educational level.

I see exceptions in one-time services such as web design, programming, etc, but something as ongoing as web hosting, that is putting a lot of risk in the air.

What if johnny gets a girlfriend and decides he'd rather spend time with her than making sure the servers are up?

What if they make it big, who is going to want to work for them... "My boss is 14 years old"

It's likely they will hire other people in the same age group, which leads to major legal issues (work hours, contractual agreements, and so on).

It just seems like a paradox.

I think I matured quite fast, but I can honestly say I would have easily brought down a business and upset lots of customers if I were 14.

Hey, not my problem the server was down for 8 hours... i was at school!


MY POINT: Minors are free to run businesses, but restrictions do apply. I would never do anything more than nickel and dime business relationships with a minor, it's simply not logical unless they have extraordinary skills... using WHM to add clients to a PC at rackshack isn't an extraordinary skill (no offense)

YEa true, ever watch Richie Rich? :stickout

Originally posted by Kriz
YEa true, ever watch Richie Rich? :stickout

Excuse #554

"I'm sorry your server was down, I didn't want to miss saturday morning cartoons"

Yes, I am cynical :D

LOL excuse #554? hehe you must have a huge archive for those. Did you get them all from this thread? or experience aswell? :stickout :stickout :stickout

Originally posted by Kriz
LOL excuse #554? hehe you must have a huge archive for those. Did you get them all from this thread? or experience aswell? :stickout :stickout :stickout

Man, i've run 3 seperate hosting companies into the ground!
I was a founder of them all.
Who cares if I screwed hundreds of people, I just needed money for a car, who would have known they wanted to form a long "business relationship" (or whatever they call it!) with me.

Sorry if I took the thread off-track, just trying to show a "lighter" side to the general ideas here.

Where is edude?

Where is he when you need him the most ??

Where is edude

1:24 AM... asleep? (Or have the web hosting addicts forgot what that was)

I'll keep ya'll updated when I find my safe "cure" for sleep.

Originally posted by Rewdog
1:24 AM... asleep? (Or have the web hosting addicts forgot what that was)

I'll keep ya'll updated when I find my safe "cure" for sleep.

Eh?

Originally posted by clockwork


Excuse #554

"I'm sorry your server was down, I didn't want to miss saturday morning cartoons"

Yes, I am cynical :D


Hey, I'm 30, and *I* don't want to miss MY toons!


(Thats why there is a TV next to the server :D )

We're talking about running a hosting company, right? Well, let's talk the focus off age for just a bit. The three major things you need to have to run a hosting company is 1. knowledge, 2. time, 3. maturity (I don't own a hosting company, but I'm thinking these are the basics of just about any business anyway). A close fourth would be patience, but I'm getting off track. Back on subject, if someone has those things, they should be able to run a reputable hosting company, regardless of age.

However, if you do not have all of those qualifications, then you are taking a risk, and putting others at risk along with you. The point many people are trying to point out here is that it takes time to run a hosting company... time that might be better spent in school, and of course, school is mandatory for those of age 14 (unless you want to be charged with truancy).

I don't think most people here are trying to put anyone down because of their age. I am 20 and I am more competant on the web than my 45 year old mother. However, I am in college, trying to focus on my studies, and if she quit her current job and decided to start a hosting company, sure, she would have much more time to dedicate to all her customers than I would, even though I might know more.

The point here is support and service. When there isn't much extra time, how are you going to look after your clients? At 14, there are much more restrictions school-wise than when you are at the college/university level and even now I would not feel entirely comfortable running my own hosting biz because I simply do not feel I could devote enough time to the biz.

By the way, for you 21 and unders who have made it (read: managed to start up a successful, reliable biz), I applaud you. You've beat the rough odds that these people are pointing out.

Well I haven't read all these posts and I felt compelled to at least comment.

I started my business when I was 15, I am now 19. I'm a entertainer and currently run a muti op. I'm not going to touch upon how successful we have been or are. However I wanted to rather give you a bit of insight from one of those minorities that made it. That's still huffing and puffin up the never ending mountain.

in all of life whether older or younger you have those who make it and others who don't.

Love what you do; it’s the key to being successful. Follow your vision, be determined to accomplish. You will arrive at your destination; before you understand. Never say never, always follow your dreams. Don’t let people stop you. Take a step further. Listen to yourself. Live life, let it flow. –Enjoy & Dance

People who bash others do so ignorant and arrogantly. I pity those who do and wonder why they don't stop and think a bit more on life and who people are.

Originally posted by dreamHOBO
My final opinion: Age is a unimportant issue. Different people mature faster and have large intelligence spans. If someone really is capable, then that they are. There are no if, ands, or buts. Plan and simple. You can comprehend business and support and provide it or you cant.

I think this is the best reply to the thread yet. It's the message a lot of us would like to convey, made concise. If you have a disagreement with it, you really are displaying ageism at its worst...not just scoffing at our endeavors...but to try to deny us the American privilege to do so...is unbelievable.

Hello,

I'm very young, I don't believe I'm fully mature - however i'm no TimPD, i'm not biting off more than I can chew.

I'm going be leaving school this educational year and hope to move to the USA to work for a web hosting company in technical support and server administration :)

I work very hard, I do not drop things just because I should go to sleep, I get the job done - When a client has a problem, I fix it.

Just because someone is 40, does that mean that they are mature ??

Ones mature status is only measured by ones actions ( unless you mean mature as kindof words for old :P ), therefor.... age doesn't really come into it ... however... I agree the average 11-16 year old would not have enough experience to run a business, however - not everyone is average :D

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ninji

This isnt telling any of you who may be 14 years old to dropout and try and endup like me, like I said my original company had failed, but it was the learning experience that benefited me.
[/B]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yes but did your "learning experience" benefit your customers.
I guess maybe in the sense it could have, because maybe in the future they would be more careful in doing research about the hosting company they're signing up with.

That's one reason I won't sign up with a teen-age host, I would not want to be part of someone's learning experience

My customers were completly happy with me and the service I provided with them the problem was they liked it so much they reffered friends and I wasn't prepared to handle more than the clients I had, so I sold all my clients to a very large company whom will remain nameless. The company only failed becuase I wasnt prepared to handle it, which is the case with most people of that age, but had I wanted to, I could of hired staff and continued to host at that time, but that was too much responisbility for me at that time.

Kids can indeed run successful businesses. I'm living proof.

I do agree with whoever posted the effiacy and availability thing. I disagree with the accountability part though, just for the simple fact that there is all kinds of legal ways around that.

I would like to comment out on this.

I myself could say I am a minor. I am the Owner/CEO of TechEGlobal Computer Solutions. We are a Computer Solutions provider for Homes, Businesses & schools nationwide.

The business is registered locally and with the state under my name. Business Income tax is also filed under my name also.

It is totally legal for a minor to Own/Operate a business. As long as he or she understand that the parent is liable for any wrongdoing.

Also, The parent is responsible as a co-signer for all legal contracts to make them legally binding.

I just thought I would put my 2-Cents in.

Thanks,
Owner/CEO
TechEGlobal Computer Solutions
http://www.techeglobal.com

At the end of the day, as has already been said, no matter how knowledgable/dedicated/honest/mature a minor may be, they are still subject to the conditions placed on them within their family, and by the law. As has been mentioned several times, scenarios such as being banned from the computer, or moving to an area without Internet access etc etc mean that a minor can not be in full control... that's not to say they can't get round some scenarios, but when you are not fending for yourself 100% you are always on a back foot. It's just part of life. You'll get to adulthood eventually and it'll all be behind you. In the meantime, you just have to accept that things won't all go your own way.

Another point worth bearing in mind is that all adults were 14 once, we know what it's like to be that age, whereas 14 year olds haven't experienced what it's like to be an adult. Therefore, 14 year olds should accept that you are unable to call on experience in the same way that adults can, and no matter how right you may think you are (I'm not about to comment on what's right and what's not), you haven't yet made adulthood so you can't know exactly what lies ahead.

And the same applies to everybody - I can't call on the experience of a 50 year old because I'm nowhere near 50. I may think what I do and how I do it is just right and that things can't possibly go wrong, yet I'm sure that once I hit 50, I'll look back on some of what I do now and see ways in which I was wrong. It's all part of life, you're continually ageing and increasing in experience, and you will find yourself thinking differently to how you do now.

You are pointing out how a minor isnt in full control and under certain circumstances they might have to give up their company, that doesnt mean the same thing cant happen to an adult.

What if they have a day job and are running their company in the evenings. They are using the money from their job to pay for a server or 2. If all of a sudden they find themselves out of a job for what ever reason are they going to a)keep on paying for the servers b)keep on paying the rent or mortage for their houes?

Thats just one situation it could happen. I would agree that its more likely to happen to a minor because parents could ban them from the internet, but if they were serious about their company, and the parents new they were serious would the parents do that?

With all that is said in this thread I do find on fact interesting. Almost all the minor owners and host you can spot right away by the fact they use the title like founder/CEO or something in their signature. Where as very few of the adults do.

I find that rather amusing. :)

I don't :)

Originally posted by Monte


I find that rather amusing. :)


LOL, I noticed that too


Just call me El Presidente, CEO, CIO, Founder, Owner, Head Chef and Chief Bottle Washer

Originally posted by Monte
With all that is said in this thread I do find on fact interesting. Almost all the minor owners and host you can spot right away by the fact they use the title like founder/CEO or something in their signature. Where as very few of the adults do.

I find that rather amusing. :)

hehe, that is funny. I used to. :laugh:

Originally posted by SplashHost.com
Thats just one situation it could happen. I would agree that its more likely to happen to a minor because parents could ban them from the internet, but if they were serious about their company, and the parents new they were serious would the parents do that?


Good point. All parents *would* have to know they are running a business BIG or SMALL.

Now depending on the maturity/common sense of the adult, they wouldn't ban a child from the computer.

Another thing, what if the parents support the child in the business and pay for the servers?


Some adults are wealthy, and therefor so are the children..



Then you also have to think.. wait.. what if the parents both own their own business's and the child has been learning since he could talk?


Business ethics and practices can be a primary language for children if their parents are high up in the industry.

Originally posted by SplashHost.com
You are pointing out how a minor isnt in full control and under certain circumstances they might have to give up their company, that doesnt mean the same thing cant happen to an adult.

What if they have a day job and are running their company in the evenings. They are using the money from their job to pay for a server or 2. If all of a sudden they find themselves out of a job for what ever reason are they going to a)keep on paying for the servers b)keep on paying the rent or mortage for their houes?

Thats just one situation it could happen. I would agree that its more likely to happen to a minor because parents could ban them from the internet, but if they were serious about their company, and the parents new they were serious would the parents do that? Yep, you're right to some extent, I did think of making some reference to this in my post but it was late and I just wanted to get to bed :D

The difference with an adult over a minor though is that because they are in control, even if disaster strikes, they're still able to wind down the company - they're not going to face the situation where all of a sudden, overnight they're stopped from using their computer for the foreseeable future, hence can do nothing about offloading clients to somebody else etc. They're also not going to be told to go to bed just as a critical server issue crops up ;)

That's not to say all adults run good businesses, or all minors run bad businesses, but the fact that minors aren't fully in control, even if they think they are, means that minors as a whole are treated with much more caution because of the potential problems that could crop up due to their age, even if in individual cases this is highly improbable.

This is the sort of subject where you are going to have the two extremes. You'll have the teenagers saying they can run a business, and you'll have the adults saying that the teenagers saying that they can't.

I'm 18 years old. I think that I am the only teenager on here that will admit that I wouldn't have been comfortable (and I'm still not comfortable) running my own business when I was 15. Trust me, I was cocky with my computer abilities like most teenagers here are. I have no problems with teenagers working for computer companies.

Trust me however, I go to university. There are the computer geeks there who think they are all that, you know the whole "I have been programming my amiga since i was 5 years old" attitude. These people typically do well in the first year computers, and once they start doing some of the harder stuff they are stuck. You need some sort of professional training.

The key factor in the arguement however is "responsiblity". Running your own business is a huge responsibility. You need to be legally responsible for your actions. No matter how mature someone is, I'm not going to do business with someone who is not legally responsible for the actions they take. I am also not going to sign up with someone who is getting there mum or dad to sign the contracts for them.

I used to make a fair bit of money from the internet. I used to use referal programs for hosting however, instead of using some sort of system in which I was responsible for customer support, managing the server etc. I simply collected my 25% monthly recurring commisions.

I used to do a lot of perl and php scripting as well. However, I used to do the work for the client, and when they were happy with it - get them to send me the check. I do the work, and I would get paid. This is a much better way for a teenager to work, rather then getting paid beforehand and then realising then you agreed to do something that you couldn't do.

The same went with my old website. When I sold advertising, I would get the advertisers to pay me after I had shown all there ads and satisifed all the agreements. I was young, I could have had to stop paying the hosting bills at anytime, and the advertisers would have been buggered.

The point I am making is: If you are young and want to do business - do so in a way in which you have no, or minimal responsibility.

I could go on for ages - but I think I made my point. I'll clarify anything I said later on if it isn't clear.

Cheers,

Michael Bray

Mr Bray, you are wise beyond your years and I am impressed.

Good luck to you in school and in your future endevours.

-WC-

Michael, you are absolutely spot on, I couldn't agree more :)

Hehe I might be the youngest here, I am 14! I wouldn't even THINK of running my own company at this age! Honestly, it's a silly idea for a 14 year old to do that, unless he/she doesn't go to school. Think about it, there's school, homework, bedtime, the fact you need sleep for the next day, eating time, TV time. It all adds up and you end up having next to no time to sort out server problems etc. I don't even think I will run my own company in any form until I'm at least 24! There's all this school business for me to get through, GCSE's, AS Levels, A Levels, and so on. Then there's university. That means there's no time for that kind of thing, and also, us teenagers at this age have a life to live too. Not the time to sit in front of a computer all day running a server, getting clients to upload their files to something you run! I personally don't think teenagers should get into that kind of thing until they're at least 18! It's just not made for us, however, this is what is happening. The kids are taking over the world...heh...it's true. A few years ago, only people 20+ were running servers etc. this being about 5-10 years ago. Then teenagers started using the internet more, and eventually most teenagers got internet access in some form in their own household. Once they keep going on the internet, and out of curiosity wondering how a site is made, they learn HTML and make a geocities site. They then wonder how to get a .com name and eventually find out, but then they find out they need hosting if the site is to be popular. So they do that and it's a chain in other words, it goes on and on and look how fast it's all evolving now, word of mouth spreads the word of how it's done and teenagers are taking over!

Maybe people's agenda's are less than you?


I know one thing.. I aint watched TV in a long while (but I aint 14).

If something were to ever happen, I would only find out unless it happened in my front yard or if one of my mates told me over MSN ;)

Originally posted by faculty
Maybe people's agenda's are less than you?


I know one thing.. I aint watched TV in a long while (but I aint 14).

If something were to ever happen, I would only find out unless it happened in my front yard or if one of my mates told me over MSN ;)

That may be true in a way however most people my age that I know have the same agenda as me. Think of it this way, I don't do many extra curricular activites yet it doesn't leave me enough time...

Orgranisation my friend.

I was tought since the mighty age of 3 about business ethics (both parents own their own business - profitable). I have worked in their offices. Been on sales.. basically anything.

As they say - Your always best at the language you learn as a baby.. this is something I have learnt as a child.

Cartoons are last on my agenda ;)

INfact.. I dont remember them ever being on my agenda! I aint watched TV in about 5 weeks ;)

What if you are a teen that is making a webhost for other teens that have school and stuff just like u? then would your host be successful

I think that the bottom line is: It is possible to run your own web host when you're underage on several conditions:

1) You have someone over 18 helping you out with all the legal issues.
2) You are able to access your server during emergencies in school, via a PDA, or at least a cell phone.
3) You are NOT the only person providing support and both of you cover different times.

I think that with a LOT of work and most importantly commitment, you'll be able to pull something off. But once again... some people are just not cut out for this, while others are.

Boris

im myself 15, and i legally work for a hosting/design firm as an art director on a local level. people at my age can be as knowledgeable, responsible, and mature as anyone, and as stupid as anyone too, its not relative to age. i work 2-3 hours after school, then go back to my home in my own car, and go out, have fun, etc. its just a matter of controlling your life and not giving it away :D

The weird thing is, everyone thinks teenagers are stupid to the business world in some way, we (and yes, we; my self being 13) are smarter then you think. I've heard of a 15 year-old millionaire from my web hosting reselling company. They've even offered me a job at 18, which was when I was 12.

I even got into their main server control panel with my account username and password; which their server admins over looked (NOT HACKING!).

My Mom is the actual owner of the business and my Uncle is the one who started me off, and which I still work with him making earning money.

I implement an Outlook custom calendaring system through subcontractors (for my uncle), and I am setting my client up with his second merchant account.

Please before you post, think of what you are saying; before you say it. ;)

Thanks for understanding!

David

Remember, there are a LOT of home-schooled and unschooled 14 year olds that have no restrictions, period. I being one, and I have had no problems with my business :)

I myself am 18, I started running doing web design about 2 years ago and switched over to web hosting. I have to say financally hosting has opened a new door.... I mean with the profits I made from hosting alone so far I was able to buy my first car (an Acura RSX 2002). I mean not to say hosting isn't a lot of responsibilty and work but if you handle things right it really can pay off. Basically you need to keep your expenses to a minimum, right now my only expenses are the server fees, advertising and proccessing fees. <<Spam removed, user removed>>

[i]Doing this I am able to sell account with 1GB/month data transfer for $29.99 and still turn quite a profit. [/B]



People purchase hosting accounts for $29.99 P/MONTH with only 1 gigs transfers?!


Where is this market! Let me at em! :D

Per year :)

Well all i can say is, I am 15 i run a hosting company, i have the knowledge and experience to run it fine, i run linux at home and my knowledge of it is very extensive, extensive enough even that i am area co-ordinator for a new wireless ISP in my area, which the main server is to be housed at my local school.

As for running the business i can do that fine to, i have been studying business studies at school for 2 years now, and have a good understanding of it, with the highest marks in my class.

I do think maturity and skill is more important than age

Although i am not of legal age to drive on the road, my mum can (although she doesnt have a car) drive, and i know i can drive alot better than the most of my family, i race cars, in an emergency situation i had to drive 20 miles, i didnt have one problem i drove past several police cars also, why wants i pulled over? because i could drive they had no reason to suspect i was underage.

Originally posted by mikeh


Although i am not of legal age to drive on the road, my mum can (although she doesnt have a car) drive, and i know i can drive alot better than the most of my family, i race cars, in an emergency situation i had to drive 20 miles, i didnt have one problem i drove past several police cars also, why wants i pulled over? because i could drive they had no reason to suspect i was underage.


LOL, server at school goes down at 3am and wake mum up to take you up there.

You race them, do you rice them up? Because every sticker you put on adds 5hp more.

To both teenagers and adults,

Like people of any age, some teenagers are cut out to be entrepreneurs, and some are not. The issue isn't all black or white, especially since it centers around individuals themselves, not one nebulous group. Clearly, not every teenager should start a business—many aren't responsible enough—but those with the drive and the talent definitely should. From my own experience as a so-called "teenage entrepreneur," there's a lot you can learn.

For those interested in the general subject of young entrepreneurs, you may want to read an editorial (http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~greensp/enronforkids.html) that I wrote on the subject. I think that it is indicative of larger trends, many of which have been evidenced on this bulletin board.

Although I don't have the time to read through 12 pages of posts, I do want to give my opinion on the topic.

Their are a lot of immature kids out there. Their are a lot of mature kids out there. Their are a lot of immature adults out there. Their are a lot of mature adults out there.

For anyone in this world to think that age is a defining factor of experience, knowledge, maturity is absolutely absurd.

Kids: It takes a lot to run a hosting company, or anything for that matter that interacts with people on a business level. Those of you that can do it are awesome; understand that their are many low life losers that are intimidated by the fact that they compete with kids.

Originally posted by brandonk
For anyone in this world to think that age is a defining factor of experience, knowledge, maturity is absolutely absurd.

I could not agree more. Very well said.

Patrick (14 year old entrepreneur :) )

I wonder how many gigs of transfer this thread has used :D

Originally posted by brandonk

Their are a lot of immature kids out there. Their are a lot of mature kids out there. Their are a lot of immature adults out there. Their are a lot of mature adults out there.


Technically the maturity of someone isnt the ONLY factor in being able to run a business.

Yes, you need to have some maturity...

BUT you also need TIME to Operate the business (Could be an issue with school)

Resources (investment capitol, money for ongoing expenses, technical resources -- I've been working with computers since I was 10. I'm 30 now. When I was 10 people thought I was a "wiz" and so did I. But over the years I've learned how little DEPTH of knowledge I possessed, which IF YOU APPLY THE EFFORT comes with time.)

LEGAL STUFF (MAJOR BIG THING HERE FOR EVERYONE INVOLVED!!) As an underage host, I would be --WITHOUT A CO-SIGNER OR OTHER ADULT INVOLVED IN SOME WAY, DEPENDING ON YOUR LOCAL LAWS-- **COMPLETELY UNABLE TO BE LEGALLY BOUND TO A CONTRACT**. As a customer of this host....Well I would think several times and then NOT go with someone I couldnt do business with except at my own risk.

Comittment. No matter the level of maturity of the person or age, they need to be committed to working at that business. (That would be a MAJOR question in my mind, for someone without good references no matter their age.)

Originally posted by brandonk
For anyone in this world to think that age is a defining factor of experience, knowledge, maturity is absolutely absurd.


Age is a huge factor in experience. While it is not such a big factor in the other two qualities you mentioned, it is a factor. I take it that you are about 15 years old?

The way, I would set my company up; on my contract I list my mother as the owner of the business, or I will list my Uncle, and I would be listed as Vise President. So, legally it's my mother's business, but I am the real owner.

And so far I have had no problems with clients, I am not sure why, I must be blessed. But, I think my Uncle had a major part in it, he basically refers all of my clients to me, and I have had a few problems before, one client being a manic-depressant bipolar (He was a weirdo). Anyways, I think the hardest think to overcome is the stress a young teenager (under 16) can endure. I've gone through same major stress (Me=13yr.) where basically I was afraid of the computer, it was so bad :blush:. But, I overcame (“the fear”) and after a nice vacation from the computer; everything have been going good, thanks to God’s grace.

Thanks for your understanding! :)

PS. I am homeschooled so, I have more time on my hands then public schoolar's

David

Who really wants to give his money to a 14 years old ? Who believs he can do a serious business with a 14 years old?

Originally posted by Michael_Bray


Age is a huge factor in experience. While it is not such a big factor in the other two qualities you mentioned, it is a factor. I take it that you are about 15 years old?

I'm in college there bud. Did you go to college? You don't sound very scholarly.

Could you please explain how age is a HUGE factor of experience? Could you please tell me why an 18 year old couldn't be more experienced in programming or web design than a 40 year old who just started?

Age is not a factor of experience. Experience is active participation in events or activities, leading to the accumulation of knowledge or skill. Your age has NOTHING to do with it.

::I shake my head and wonder why their are so many ignorant people in this world::

Originally posted by greatbeast

Technically the maturity of someone isnt the ONLY factor in being able to run a business.


My point was that you cannot define anything, except being legally accountable, by being under 18 or over 18.

Their are MANY ways around the legal issue, just go form an LLC with your parents.

Originally posted by wmac
Who really wants to give his money to a 14 years old ? Who believs he can do a serious business with a 14 years old?

Who would want to give his money to someone like you who can't even write a coherent sentence?

Originally posted by brandonk

Could you please explain how age is a HUGE factor of experience?

Could you please tell me why an 18 year old couldn't be more experienced in programming or web design than a 40 year old who just started?




Hmmm...

Take an 18 year old and a 40 year old, both newbies and let them go at it in starting a business from scratch

Since you say you are in college, take a class with a TA vs a Professor and see how much difference there is in teaching styles. The depth of knowledge, life experiences etc.

With age comes experience and wisdom, not just in web but in life. Ask yourself that question (Could you please explain how age is a HUGE factor of experience?) when you turn 21, 25, 30, 35, 40. 45, 50, etc and see how your views will differ.

I started IntraHost when I was 16, my dad signed all the papers, etc. etc.

I'm now 19 and have bought my dad's part of the business out. We're doing pretty damn good if I must say. Not really out to make the business a multi-million dollar business in a couple years because I'm still in college. But we sustain ourselves, which was my goal. My only limitation right now is I don't PUSH sales a lot. We do advertising and what not, but I'm not a very big outreach on sales guy right now, because I'm so involved in organizations on campus and also with school, homework, etc. etc.

I can say its not the age that matters, but your percieved age. I had a couple of interviews with Discover Card recently, they were impressed because of my maturity and also my experience. My resume was full, I actually had to cut stuff, GOOD stuff, not just "created webpages" type crap. I've worked the past couple summers at First American and Wells Fargo. Both large players in thier field, both publicly traded. I also own my own business. Its not about if you're 14 or 30. If you are 30 and act 3, then your chances of a succesful business will diminish. If you're 14 and and 45, then you may have a better chance. Once you're 16 and have run the business for a couple years, you may now appear to be 55. With experience grows maturity I believe.

Both companies I worked for were impressed about the quality of my work, the speed, and the efficiency. Its not terribly hard stuff, I wasn't running mission ciritical projects, but I took the little things at important too, a sign of maturity.

My two cents. :)

brandonk,

I am also currently in college. To say that age isn't a factor in experience is ignorant, not the other way round. The longer you live, the more experience you are going to have.

A 40 year old with no experience with web design won't be as good as an 18 year old in web design like you said :rolleyes:

By using your method of reasoning I could say an 18 year old with no experience with web design won't be as good as a 40 year old with experience, and it would be just as valid an arguement.


Age is not a factor of experience. Experience is active participation in events or activities, leading to the accumulation of knowledge or skill. Your age has NOTHING to do with it.


Mate - The longer you have been around, the more time you have to spend in "active participation in events or activities". Ask anyone who has done interviews for jobs, which people had more experience that applied. The 35+ year olds, or the 22- year olds?

An 18 year old can't have much experience cause they have usually just left school. Sure you can sit at home after school and play on your computer. That experience is no where near as good as being taught my a professional, or working in an I.T. company - and an older person who has finished school, and had more time to gain experience is more likely to have done so.

This thread is becoming a joke. Can't believe people that they are running a serious business and should be taken seriously when they get there mum to sign the forms for them.

Michael_Bray,

This thread is becoming a joke. Can't believe people that they are running a serious business and should be taken seriously when they get there mum to sign the forms for them.

The thing is, it is an option for us (teenagers-under 18) to be taken seriously or not, we make that dissension. We don't need some punk out of college (Still in, in your case :cartman: ) thinking they know it all; telling us what should be taken seriously and what shouldn't. Once more, that is our decision, not yours.

:idea: Do us all a favor; and lay off!

D A V I D

Originally posted by Michael_Bray
Can't believe people that they are running a serious business and should be taken seriously when they get there mum to sign the forms for them.

Are you kidding? You are clearly against minors having businesses, but just because they are minors? That is called age discrimination. When it comes down to it, minors can run a business just as well as the next guy. I can't believe some people, just pointing out a whole group of people and titling them like this!

Wonder if we would be talking the same way if it wasn't a cloak/dagger web business but rather a brick and motar business?

It's not age discrimination. There are law's saying that you can't do certain things till you are a certain age. You can't drive till you are one age, and you can't be held legally responsible till you are another age.

Saying that you can't be expected to be taken seriously in a business in which you aren't legally responsible therefore is a perfectly valid statement.

I admit I am "clearly against minors having businesses, but just because they are minors". I'm also against 14 year olds driving. Some 14 year olds can drive however. Does that mean that all 14 year olds should be allowed to drive? It doesn't.

Originally posted by Mind-Field
Michael_Bray,



The thing is, it is an option for us (teenagers-under 18) to be taken seriously or not, we make that dissension. We don't need some punk out of college (Still in, in your case :cartman: ) thinking they know it all; telling us what should be taken seriously and what shouldn't. Once more, that is our decision, not yours.

:idea: Do us all a favor; and lay off!

D A V I D


Insulting people is hardly a way to make people take you seriously, you know.

Originally posted by Michael_Bray
I admit I am "clearly against minors having businesses, but just because they are minors". I'm also against 14 year olds driving. Some 14 year olds can drive however. Does that mean that all 14 year olds should be allowed to drive? It doesn't.

Of course all 14 year olds shouldn't be allowed to drive. Driving is something you do when you are mentally and physically able to handle the risks (ya know, the whole death thing) of driving.

Web Hosting, however, you just have to be mentally able to handle the hard work, know how to run a business, and be available many hours a day.

Declaring that no 14 year old should be taken seriously running a business is discrimination. Give people a chance, you might learn something :)

I am not saying that there aren't teenagers who know enough about running a server to host webpages. What I am saying is, since they aren't legally responsible they should be allowed to run the business. They should simply work in a business, and start one when they are older.

Originally posted by CubeXHosting


Of course all 14 year olds shouldn't be allowed to drive. Driving is something you do when you are mentally and physically able to handle the risks (ya know, the whole death thing) of driving.


Actually I know of a 15 year old than can drive. Albeit its on a farm but the things he can do with a tractor and combine is amazing but that comes with experience.

Anyway...

Take a 14 year old and a 40 year old, both with 10 years experience and all other things being equal, give them both $10,000 as startup capital and let them start up a business.

They can have no outside help from friends or family members. It has to be a pull yourself up by your bootstraps type situation.

BTW the business cannot be just online, needs a brick/motar operation as well which is why it's 10,000 and not 1,000 in the cash department.

Ignore this post.

Originally posted by Michael_Bray


Also 4 year olds tend to be learning how to add 5 and 5 rather then gaining computer experience. A 14 year old is unlikely to have 10 years experience.


That was hypothetical but I have seen some teens who do claim 10 years experience :D

Yeah :) I thought I deleted my post before anyone would have time to read it. I'm sure there are a lot of 14 year olds that claim to have 10 years experience.

School, immature, no experience, after school jobs, homework, going on vacation with parents, where are they getting time to run a proper company?

Originally posted by MilkMan
Actually I know of a 15 year old than can drive. Albeit its on a farm but the things he can do with a tractor and combine is amazing but that comes with experience.


I think he was talking about another aspect of that example.


Anyway...

Take a 14 year old and a 40 year old, both with 10 years experience and all other things being equal, give them both $10,000 as startup capital and let them start up a business.

They can have no outside help from friends or family members. It has to be a pull yourself up by your bootstraps type situation.

BTW the business cannot be just online, needs a brick/motar operation as well which is why it's 10,000 and not 1,000 in the cash department.


The issue he mentioned that I got from what he said, wasn't anything like that, but that experience comes with age in the way that people whom are older have had more time to do this than people whom are younger.

That doesn't mean that older people have more experience, just that if they've been doing it for 10 years (like you said), that's 10 years. Where a 15 year old can't possibly have the same 10 years worth of experience, simply because they don't posses the comprehension until they get to a certain age (unless there is a uniquely exceptional person, which you can bet that type wouldn't be bothering with web hosting).

The example you gave could have been better said "A 22 year old with 10 years experience, compared to a 40 year old with 10 years experience". Someone that's only just turned 15 couldn't have possibly have had the same abilities to learn and apply, over time or comprehensively since they were 5, that a 40 year old could over those 10 years since they were 30. It just stands to reason and I'm not saying you'd argue that point, but the examples vary greatly on how many years, the subject of the skills and experience that could be acquired as well as the age they started at.

So comparing a 40 year old that's been doing it since they were 30 to a 22 year old that's been doing it since they were 12 and put in 10 years too, sure, maybe so. The older they start at, the more chances they can learn and excel faster and be able to apply it, buy the equipment they need, get real world experience at jobs, etc. They have advantages.

So if someone starts at 12, there's still a lot they are learning at that age too and it would be unlikely they'd learn as fast as the person starting at 30 would, unless that person that's older who you compare them to is too dumb, uncomprehensive, untalented or doesn't use their time wisely or is otherwise less apt to the field, which can be a reasonable argument, but that would come down to the person and we're talking about age.

I'll be 27 in about a month and I know there's a lot of people in their 40's that know more than me and I've been doing everything from using systems, to programming other aspects once I got online and started getting into administration and web server aspects and so much more (Internet stuff about 9 years, about 15 total including BBS and probably been using computers since I was 5 or 6) -- not that I think that means a whole lot, but just that I knew that people that started earlier than I did would know more -- and age is a big factor in this regard. That's not to say I didn't know more than older people though -- just people that have been doing it too, for as long or longer, people older and able to learn things I was not.

Anyone can or can not use their time wisely, but I'm simply saying they have an advantage. They are well of an age where they can learn, (if they are ever able to) and putting in 10 years can offer them a lot more. Mainly in regards to the 14 year old that could be doing it for 10 years (since they were 4). That's way too extreme and untrue -- and anyone can compare any aged person to anyone else of any age that's "just starting" to say "see, the 10 year old is better" (maybe in that specific case, yes, and there's probably more people over 40 that know less than more people that are under 20 or even 15 when it comes to this stuff), and that doesn't mean anything about either age, just circumstance and who you compare it to. Age does matter though, and these are reasons why it matters and why you trust your business site to someone older if you can.

Sure, it ultimately comes down to the person versus the other person when making such comparisons, but it is a reality and common sense that someone who starts at 15 that has 5 years experience and is now 20, will be more able than people that started when they are 10 and are now 15 -- all things being equal. A 20 year old that's been doing it since they were 15 would agree, while a 15 yea old would try and say how it's not true. Well, you can bet that any reasonable 15 year old will admit that more 15 year olds that've been doing it for 5 years are better and more skilled than a 10 year old that's been doing it since they were 5. As the 15 year old gets older, they will see this, even if it's not to the same degree or extreme as the 10 year old vs. 15 year old comparison, just as a 25 year old doing it for 5 years might not be able to be any better than a person 20 that's been doing it for 5.

There is a simple equation of life and experience. There's a certain degree where someone's almost always too young to be able to comprehend things that someone only a few years older can comprehend. It's nothing offensive and it's not age discrimination.

It's about comprehension and the time they have to apply it. Of course someone that's 40 that's been doing it for 10 years is going to know a huge amount more than a 14 year old that's been doing it for 10 years. It's just common sense. I think too many people are taking the points the wrong way.

You know, people don't just get more stupid or slow as they get older, and that's certainly not to say that people can't learn things at a young age as well. It's simply a matter of the older person can dedicate more time and be able to learn more faster, when you compare them to the age where most kids will be watching Power Rangers (and no, I'm not saying they all do) and not really be learning how to hack a Linux kernel. Someone older can learn that and move on, where the 12 year old might just be finishing learning the first parts of this. There's no reason to be offended by it, humans are built to grow older and wiser and they all learn as they go.

Everyone has a chance to catch up and be the best in their own generation, it's nothing more than that -- just as it's fair for you to say at 15 that an 8 year old probably doesn't know as much as you do. It's the facts if you've been doing it for 5 or 7 years, as the 8 year old can't possibly know what you know.

That holds true for a 20 to 15 year old comparison, but the higher up the younger age in the comparison goes, certainly the more chances you are correct -- which as a 15 year old compared to a 20 year old. That can depend on the person, when they started, etc. If you compare a 25 and 30 year old, it's very close. And so on, it begins to be about the person.

However, not to go off track from the original question, you can see there are unarguable differences and there's absolutely no reason for people to take such offense. Give it a few more years and the 14 year olds will be the most experienced 18 year olds, and they will be able to run a great business or get a lot of job offers. When they turn 25, it'll even be more so. That doesn't mean anything bad, and I wish people would just see it for exactly that.

If someone thinks that's a generalization, is just looking to argue or takes it personally, just read what I said again, as it contains no negative things at all. Facts are facts, they don't equate to bad things. To a certain age, it does matter. After you grow older, it is about skills and not age. At certain ages, you can't possibly posses the same skills as someone that's older, assuming that the person has been doing it for just as long, and likely longer.

Comparing a 15 year old that does some stuff on a web server or programs with some 40 year old that's just starting to learn, is the same as comparing a 10 year old that's been doing it for a couple of years and comparing them to a 15 year old that's just getting started. You can argue semantics all you like or assume people are prejudice, but that's not the case.

There are real reasons why it matters and those reasons have been covered well in this thread, even if some people have gone to extremes on both view points. Lets' be fair, it definitely matters (for business, legal reasons, as well as skills and experience -- even if it does often come down to the person, the older person, given the same amount or more of time invested, has a better chance of being more skilled and experienced. The fact is true, that if you start earlier though, by the time you're their age (or sooner), you can be more skilled than they were at their current age, but everyone can continue to learn and get better). I hope no oversensitive person takes issue with this, I won't respond.

Hi, i am a 15 year old and is webmaster of Acnova.com (Free unlimited web hosted, php/mysql/cgi/perl)

I am running this thing together with some other school mates as a hobby (singapore high school students).

Fundermentally, i dun see anything wrong except that it should not affect our schoolwork. Sometimes dealing with hackers and spammers is hard work but we still enjoy it.

Insulting people is hardly a way to make people take you seriously, you know.

You know, I wouldn't have to insult you, if you didn't insult me first. Have you ever herd the saying "...An eye for an eye..." or "tit-for-tat".

Think about first before replying, please.

By the way, I'm the only one who posted about their mother signing to forms for them, so don't try and tell me you didn't insult me first. I took that as an insult.

Thank You!

D A V I D

Ps. Let's try and stop this before it becomes a major 30-page forum thread, and we end up in virtual-fist fighting :argue: .

I've only been on the forums for about a month, and have post under 20 posts, and I am already in a major forum discussion. :eek2:

Originally posted by Mind-Field


You know, I wouldn't have to insult you, if you didn't insult me first. Have you ever herd the saying "...An eye for an eye..." or "tit-for-tat".

Think about first before replying, please.



I'm afraid your a bit confused. I don't recall insulting anyone.

I just mentioned that insulting others (The referring to someone as a "punk out of college") didn't help your case any and doesn't help people in taking you seriously. (And technically, that goes for anyone of any age.)

A lot of posts on this thread - so it isn't just me that realizes it is a huge problem in the web hosting market. But lets face the real problem for a minute:

It's far to easy to get into the web hosting business.

Customers need to be better educated before they make a purchasing decision, they need to know more about the company. A web site "levels the playing field" letting a 14-year old look the same as a company with 100 staff. I think that is the main problem here - is not that its any 14-year old, its just the fact that on average we have these small 1-2 person businesses competing against the large companies with 20 or more employees.

My main problem with these 1-2 person business is that they can't provide adequate 24 hour support, yet they still advertise it.

Customer's need to know some basic rules to not get ripped off - first, check and make sure that they are not hosted with a reseller. Back when the whole reseller business was started the business like pair.com wanted it to be "VAR" - VALUE ADDED RESELLER.... that means, "I'll do your web site design, programming, marketing, and I can also host it to make things easier for you." It didn't mean "Host with me, but I don't offer anything special."

With a market saturated with "Host with me's, but I don't offer anything special" its impossible for customers to stay away from resellers and unknowledgable businesses and stay with those that know what they are doing.

To disclaim myself, 1-2 person businesses can provide better support and services all around than a large 20 person company, but in that case its a problem with the 20 people - if 1 person can do better than 20 people something is wrong in upper management. Also, not all resellers are scams. But I don't really agree with the reseller business as a whole, unless the only reason they are reselling is to offload support to the resellers in which case there is an added-value: support.

I fail to see how it being "too easy to get into a business" has anything to do with anything.

I mean, we might as well be talking about any kind of business. Yes, if you want to sell cars, you will need a lot more (Millions of dollars of product, licenses, permits, etc) but the fact is this: MANY PEOPLE IN EVERY BUSINESS SECTOR WHO ARENT THE BEST QUALIFIED FOR WHATEVER THEY DO GET INTO BUSINESS EVERY DAY.

That is a fact of life and won't change.

I don't see resellers being a problem at all, and I fail to see why you do. Yes, maybe they just host and dont add any value to anything at all. Maybe your company looks the same as theirs in features, except you have your own datacenter and control your own boxes and network.

My question is this: So what ?

If you DO offer more services, advertise that fact. Even if the customer doesnt understand 1/2 of what you offer, they will hear a lot of technospeak and take that as a good thing as options for the future.

If you are tired of competing with someone who is only charging $5 a year for hosting....Well, just wait a bit and capture their customers. Or resell some of YOUR space to THEM (prepaid, naturally) so you can both profit from their lack of business accumen, and be ready to grab all their customers for your service when they cant pay the bills.

Yelling for the neighborhood cop when someone starts selling diamond rings for ten-cents outside your jewelry store isnt the answer. Waiting for them to run out of rings (and charging for appraisals for their customers) would be a better idea.
(If you get the bad analogy)

Customer's need to know some basic rules to not get ripped off - first, check and make sure that they are not hosted with a reseller.

You obviously have problem with the resellers/competition.
I bet that your company is still trying to sell 25MB/2G package for $25/mo and I doubt it that you can offer something better than the average reseller.
What makes you better then the others, tell us?

But I don't really agree with the reseller business as a whole...

Fortunately, nobody is asking you if you agree or not :D


Peter

Call me old-fashion, but I think yard work and delivering newspapers is more suitable for a 14-year old.
Kids need exercise at that age while their bones develop, and don't need to be sedentary on a computer for hours on end. They also need the outside world for developing their social skills.


Old Fashioned.

I am really not liking what I'm hearing here. Business at the teenage level is a wonderful thing. Many adults now roll their eyes at the "wisping away" of our nations youth, yet when they see teens trying to do something that isn't traditional, they look down on it?

Yes, I know that there are many teens that are irresponsible, yet they work in this industry. So WHAT! They are a a million worse things these kids could be doing, and at least they are making an attempt to be productive.

You guys, ESPECIALLY in this forum should be the first to encourage and mentor teens in the industry, not shun them.

In regards to comparing a 14 year old doctor or lawyer to hold an occupation in this industy... thats like comparing apples to oranges. Law and Medicine is a different type of field where lives are in the balance, and both of which require several years of training. I don't think you can say the same about the hosting industry.

I think that was worth more than $.2

--JCA Justin

Hmm...old fashioned? Gives me an idea for a story.*


Little Timmay starts a lawn cutting service..does pretty good, has 3 regular clients. Word gets around and has a few more, even convinces some to let him do their yardwork year round and is paid for the work in advance.

Now Timmay has 57 customers and the work is killing him, no longer has time for school, cartoons or sleep. His parents don't know anything since his uncle tells them, it's just a little side business so he can save up and buy Christmas presents.

Parents are pleased. Timmay is not. He is sick and tired of toiling in the hot sun after overselling his services. He stops working. First tells people his lawn mower broke. Then he ran out of gas or his staff quit on him.

After a while people start calling his mother asking about it. Soon 57 angry customers are pounding on the front door demanding either service or a refund. Mother goes to find Timmay but he is busily playing quake 2 on his computer. He told his mom he was tired of the work and shut his business down. She asked about the money and refunds. He told her what are they going to do, sue him? He's just a kid.

Next summer Timmay starts a dog walking/grooming business. Now who is going to get bitten this time? The customers or Timmay!






*based on a true story, not affliated with pair of dice-designs, earhost, flohost or Timmay from South Park.
Copyright 2002, All rights reserved, member FDIC.

Call me old-fashion
Dear old-fashion,

I think yard work and delivering newspapers is more suitable for a 14-year old.
There are plenty of other ways for us to get exercise than delivering newspapers. But that is besides the point.

The point is, delivering newspapers may be better for some 14 year olds, but for the ones that can handle a business, there is no reason to hold them back. Plus, how does delivering newspapers prepare them for adult life?

Originally posted by CubeXHosting

Plus, how does delivering newspapers prepare them for adult life?


That's an easy one: Paper or Plastic!

Originally posted by MilkMan


That's an easy one: Paper or Plastic!

LOL, I meant a reasonably sucessful adult life.

This post is not intended to offend any bag boys/men

Interesting topic, I guess I'll make my first post my .02.

First of all, there seems to be a slight contradiction regarding minors and legal rights. To clear things up (as I was once in Law Enforcement) - Minors (< 18) cannot enter into any legally binding contract, nor can they register a business, be it DBA, incorporation, or otherwise. That being said, *some* states allow minors to place their name on certain property. For example, in certain states, a minor may place him/herself on the title of an automobile with parental consent. This does not mean, in any way, that the minor holds interest or posesses liability for the vehicle, all liability and ownership are retained by the parents regardless if the minor's name is on the said title. Being as business registrations (aka DBA, Doing Business As) are handled on a county level, and each county may have different procedures, some counties allow registration by minors WITH their parents - but it is essentially useless and entitles the minor to nothing... courts do not recognize minors, period... parents are held accountable for their children's actions.

Secondly, there is no doubt there are some talented young individuals, that I would even go as far as to say that are helping drive the technological age... but there is a fine line between talent, intelligence and competency. I started a small consulting business when I was 14-15 and as many of the kids here, my father registered the business and handled all financial tasks of the company. Way back then, I thought I knew it all.. "I don't need my dad, I have this all under control" - I thought on many occasions. Then one day, a process server shows up at our door serving my dad with a subponea. Turns out, it was a dissatisfied customer who was trying to milk the system. Needless to say, at 15, I was terrified when I saw a subponea and was told I would have to goto court with my father to testify on his behalf. The court utlimately sided with my dad, as the whole incident was not (for once lol) my fault, but I will be perfectly honest in saying that was a reality check. Before the incident, I had the typical teenage 'invincible complex' which led me to believe I was ready to conquer the world and face any challenge that came my way. I was sorely mistaken. After that point, I never questioned my father's decisions again. ;)

The point is, ALL kids (you can call that a stereotype if you wish) think they are more ready than they really are. The reason? I couldn't say... but in my case, I feel it was because I didn't know any different. TV, even parents tend to make life look much easier than it really is. The day I graduated and turned 18, it was yet another sore reality check.. Suddenly, the world didn't look so easy anymore. Age 21 was yet another reality check, and so on... The bottom line is, life is a learning experience in itself.. We, as adults, learn more and more each day, just as you kids do. You never stop learning, never stop trying, and never stop failing. NOBODY knows it all.

Now, to be fair to the other side, it is true, there are many people of *all* ages that have absolutely no place in the business world, and even more that have the mentality of a 12yr old. What's the difference between them and a 14yr old? If nothing else; Accountability. If a 30yr old destroys his business and takes advantage of 200 customers, those customers are going to come at HIM full force. If a 14yr old destroys his business and takes advantage of 200 customers, they are either out of luck, or can try a roll of the dice with coming at the parents full force. That's not even taking into account the fact that it is a medical and sociological fact that 14yr olds are NOT yet fully developed.. physically, mentally, and emotionally. That is the exact reason why the government and mainstream america feel it's in everyone's best interest to define a minor as being capable to enter "the real world" at Age 18, and generally not before.

There used to be a time when 14-15yr old males were sent to work in the fields and factories because they were deemed ready for physical labor, and many felt it would instill discipline. Well, of course the child labor movement occurred, and over the years, we have been left with spoiled kids who want everything handed to them and believe 12hrs/day gaming will prepare them for the world. We've got 8-12yr olds shooting their peers, a 300% increase in teenage pregnancies, an excessive high school drop out rate, an increasing alcohol and drug abuse problem among teenages, and states are now determining that teenagers are so much more irresponsible than before that even the driving laws are being changed. Some (if not most) states, you can't drive unrestricted until age 18. Now, I ask you, given that most teenagers can BARELY handle the cakewalk of a life they lead as a teen, they're ready to start a business? Don't get me wrong... I applaud those who would rather work on their future, than cave to the pressures of usual teenage life... but it's not gonna happen.

Starting ANY type of business is no easy task (if you wish for success anyway.) There is a lot of planning, thought and preparation involved. In the case of webhosting, you have to evaluate the market you're going after, evaluate the competition and identify your niche.. What are you going to offer your customers that can reasonably meet/exceed your competition? Being 14, it's surely not going to be adequate support, given that at least 10hrs a day is devoted to schooling and extracurricular activities. Low overhead means more savings to the customers, but that's not everything. The second thing to ask is: Why do you want to start a business? Evaluate your reasons (make a list) and ensure that they are infact good reasons. Starting a business merely to say "I'm 14, and have a business" or "I'm powahfull!" is no reason.

My long-winded .02 :)

at 14, i was trying to get laid, not start a biz.

haha, i failed at getting laid too until i was 19 at least.., but anyway starting a biz at 14 is fine if it suits the age, like lawn service or something simple. I agree that experince plays a big part of it. I dont care if my eye surgeon is 30, 40, or 50... if hes the best at what he does and can prove it with references, ill take him... if hes 50 and just out of med school, forget it!
I think thats the issue, a 14 year old doesnt have much experince in anything but MTV. I am 24 and I knew I am not the most experinced at anything yet but I am always learning.

I think if he is good at what he does fine, and if you get ripped off by a 14 year old hoster, you should have asked more questions before you choose a host. I wouldnt trust my hosting to any company unless they have been around at least 3 years and have good referneces, regardless of cost.. unless of course i wanted to start my own

Prolix, very well said! And yes, I read the whole thing :D

Originally posted by Mekhu
Prolix, very well said! And yes, I read the whole thing :D

lol sorry about that... imagine how my wife feels. :p

Just another opinion...

I knew a case where a teenager who was 15 years old ran a web hosting business with his partner who was 19. The 15 year old had much more experience in the web hosting area and he was handling most of the technical support and issues. His partner was handling the financial issues and basic support during the time when the teenager had school. Overall, the client never had to wait more than 8 hours for a basic response. And if there was an emergency, both of the partners had cell phones through which they could communicate.

Their company grew to 300 clients in 8 months. Does it mean that they were spending 14 hours managing their clients? No. After they reached a certain amount of clients, they simply hired another person to help them manage the workload.

The 16 year old was still succeeding in school and leading a pretty good social life, from what I heard, so running a business only took away 4-5 hours from his day (1 hour before school, 2 hours after school, 1-2 hours at night). And he had 2 people which were also working around the schedule.

The clients weren't complaining because this team provided a hell of a service... much more personal than the "big boys" but better than a 1-man company.

The bottom line is... even though, the 15 year old had a partner, he was basically the heart of the company. He managed the original planning, promotion, etc. The 18 year old was taking care of the financial issues, so it never became a problem.

This just goes to show that IT IS possible to provide a good service at a young age. Obviously, it takes a lot of commitment and responsobilities, and sometimes self-sacrifice, because sometimes there was no choice but to work, instead of going to hang out with friends. But it can be done ... and it can be done very well.

Think about it... if the company grows bigger than the 15-yr can handle, he can either:

a) Hire someone to help him out.
b) Sell the company to someone else and make a decent profit
c) If he wants to close it down, he just needs to let the clients know 30 days in a advance and help them move to different web hosts.

If you are 25 years old right now and are trying to look at it from a 15 year olds point of view, you really can't. You can't say that it can't be done, because it's only an assumption.

I guess that's all I wanted to state so far.

Best Regards,
Boris

Boris,

That was a well-stated perfect example.

--JCA Justin

Boris, is your example referring to Hostrocket per chance? If memory serves, Brendan was around 19 when HR was started - and it seems like John was even younger.

If that's the case, you're right... they did an excellent job at building their market, however, I don't think it's anywhere near reasonable to assume that's not a very rare exception. They also hit the market at the perfect time and had a solid foundation.

Irregardless, the example you posted, in my opinion, is an exception -not- the norm. The bottom line is, children do not belong in a serious business environment. Now, if we're talking about a kid getting a reseller account and hosting some buddy's gaming sites, that's one thing... but if we're talking about a kid who gets funding from his parents to get a dedicated server and a full-fledged hosting company, not only is that ludacris, it's unethical as well, in my opinion - unless the minor makes it perfectly clear that he/she is just that.. a minor. Age DOES matter... legally and ethically. Sorry, it's a harsh reality for some... but we've ALL been there.


If you are 25 years old right now and are trying to look at it from a 15 year olds point of view, you really can't. You can't say that it can't be done, because it's only an assumption.

Sure I can... because I've been there. What's more... I don't think anyone is saying it "can't" be done... I am personally saying, it *shouldn't* be done. It amazes me how many kids are in such a rush to grow up when it comes to more prestigious things, but when it comes down to true responsibility, it's "Hey, I'm just a kid." :rolleyes:

I do hope that this thread is still here in 5, maybe 10 years time and all you young hosts re-read the whole thing.

yeah, all of you 13 somethin' you're all obsolete.

I'm 9 and running web hosting business. I'm better than you 13 years old.

My school takes less time than yours, bahhh. I'm smarter too.

And if you say I cannot run my own business, you ain't better than those of legal age.

My only problem is my competition, a little freak next door. He's only 5 and thinks hes better than me. Yeah right!

Let me tell you, 5 years old shouldn't be in business.

CEO and Founder
pOWAhkIDs.com

Totally right Atlonim!
At least i think so... i'm 11 and may start my own web host. But i don't know if i'm up to it now. I'd like to say i am but if i get clients, i don't want to let them down because of school.

My .02 on this subject. If a 14 year old has the brains the will the discipline and the common sence to listen to advise that people give him/her more power to that 14 year old :). I kinda think that history repeats itself in terms of what 14 year olds do. Back in 1920's and 30's 14 year old kids fed their whole families and worked at factories and whatnot. If a person can demonstrate professionalism and the skill set that I am looking for I don't really care what age they are :).


Balancing school and work can be tough but it is doable . I did it through my years in college, working full time and carrying full-time load of college credits.

P.S. I am no 14 anymore :).

Kids these days know way much more about the tech than a lot of older people in this fields...

Just an example is Hackers, most of them are teen and they crack into those multi-billion dollars companies who's maintained by some guy who is 40 years old.

My thought is this;

If a teen wants to start his or her own business, let them!

In this age if they loose anything, it's ok, they have a whole life to make it up, on the other hand, if a person in it's late 30's tries to do same and looses money, I think it's very hard for him to make it again.

Some people born with skills and the kids you see trying to start a company or business are one of those..

My younger borther and sister (both are twin and are in thier late teen) are awsome at what they do.

Sister looks like a born artist, when it comes to graphics, she can blow anyone's mind, on the other side, brother is very good at CGI and flash.
If I ever get a request to build a site for someone, I usually give it to them (I don't like to make pages, unless I really really have to) and so far I have not got any complains from my/thier costumers!

More, people now contact them instead of me for their web designing needs.
I have 100% faith on a person who is a teen as much a person who is in his/her 20's or 30's.

Once again, it's about skills, not age, most people say "You learn skills with age", I think it's just something that God gifts to people.

My $0.02.

My god 15 pages.. people got a lot of things to say these days, anyway here are my thoughts on this matter...

:cartman:

When I just started i opened up a web design company called Penguin web design - and I had only one customer, but then I kept working adding some new things to my porfolio - all customers knew that I was very young back then, but they didn't care as long as the job was done.


So, I strongly encourage young people to work - it doesn't mean it's a good thing to open a business but to work for someone else and gain experience - there's nothing wrong with that :)

So good luck to all of you 14 year old out there...

Originally posted by Mesum
Kids these days know way much more about the tech than a lot of older people in this fields...

Just an example is Hackers, most of them are teen and they crack into those multi-billion dollars companies who's maintained by some guy who is 40 years old.


And you want to know why that is? Because the 40 year old in question, doesn't know what they are doing (and yes some company probably hired them because they are older). Want to know why else? Because fewer kids seem to pay as big a penalty and adults have a lot more to loose for going to prison for breaking into corporate systems. Perhaps also because people that are adults that have been doing it longer and are better due to that, also get caught less (believe it). Even more so, more teens breaking into systems hits the news more. There are plenty of older people that never grew up and were never capable of respecting the laws that do it too -- and many have been caught as well. It's a misconception because more adults that do it won't get the same publicity. That's not to say a kid can't do it, but most kids using tools and hitting a corporate site is nothing special.


My thought is this;

If a teen wants to start his or her own business, let them!

In this age if they loose anything, it's ok, they have a whole life to make it up, on the other hand, if a person in it's late 30's tries to do same and looses money, I think it's very hard for him to make it again.


But you see, that's the problem people mentioned. I'm not sure I agree with it, but I realize it can be the case enough of the time -- where it isn't life or death to their financial status to fail, so people have stated that is why it's more of a risk. You've just reinforced that opinion of that person whom made that comment.


Some people born with skills and the kids you see trying to start a company or business are one of those..


Well, sometimes that's true. Simply because someone's young and wants to start a business and think they have all the skills and are ready to, doesn't mean that's the case. If that was the case, there would be less problems of those type giving younger people a bad name (and of course not all younger people deserve to be compared to other younger people just because another one does wrong -- but it's a reality enough of the time (yes for adults too)).

Some people will be good and some won't and age doesn't have anything to do with it. However, if they will be good, than the older they are and the (more) longer they've been doing it, the better they will be. It's their advantage, but the younger person has that advantage over people smart that are starting younger than them, or later. For example, I'm going to be 27 soon. I haven't seen a 15 year old yet, that knows something I don't, or more than me. Really, that's not ego talking, it's just due to the fact I'm older and have been doing this longer.

If it was true that people at any age could know just as much or more than someone at an older age that's been doing it longer, than the older person would simply not really have the skills or comprehension they should. As the 15 year old gets older, even in a few more years, then by the time they are 27, they might know a lot more than I do now. It's a simple reality, nothing arrogant or offensive. I'm sure there are 15 year olds somewhere that know more than I do about this field, but it's unlikely there's very many at all. Just as there are 7 year olds that might be very intelligent that know more than most 15 year olds, but it's just unlikely -- but watch out when those people do turn 15 or do turn 27! People that think it's actually that common to see someone that age know that much, should (as mentioned previously) come back in 5 or 10 years.


My younger borther and sister (both are twin and are in thier late teen) are awsome at what they do.

Sister looks like a born artist, when it comes to graphics, she can blow anyone's mind, on the other side, brother is very good at CGI and flash.
If I ever get a request to build a site for someone, I usually give it to them (I don't like to make pages, unless I really really have to) and so far I have not got any complains from my/thier costumers!


I'm not going to get into your opinion about your siblings, but I've seen many people claim these and I've seen their code, and... well... Anyway, that's not to say they aren't great at what they do or aren't as talented as you say.


More, people now contact them instead of me for their web designing needs.
I have 100% faith on a person who is a teen as much a person who is in his/her 20's or 30's.


That's fine and you might be right on the money with that opinion. It all depends who you deal with, and age is next down the line. I just personally would go with someone older that's been around and will probably have more developed skills (and not the 40 year old that doesn't know anything in everyone's negative examples of anyone older).


Once again, it's about skills, not age, most people say "You learn skills with age", I think it's just something that God gifts to people.

My $0.02.

Yes, it is about skills. I made the point previously about how age can allow someone to have more or better skills. However, that doesn't equate to saying the younger person won't have enough skills to do their job very well either. So you might be right, but this topic was specifically about 14 year olds running *web hosting* businesses. Not designs and not programming, but running a business. Needing the skills for administration, support, programming, protocols, networking, P&R, sales, legal issues, time to commit to it, experience in too many things to list.

That said, it is _unlikely_ that many 14 year olds in the world would be able to do all of those things. I'm sure some can, but that would be rare. However, if you deal with a 14 year old and you're happy, that's all that matters. I'm not going to tell other people what to think or do, but I was sharing my views on this topic and how age _does_ make a difference. Since that's not _always_ the case it seems, then it doesn't _always_ make a difference, but it _does_ in most cases.

To close my thoughts here, and to be clear as to not cause any confusion or be accused of anything -- I'm not saying anyone that's 14 or even younger shouldn't do what they can, or run a business. If they want to, go for it. You might do very well and it might be the best choice you can make. However, don't be surprised or ask yourself why some people might not want to use your service or say they don't have a good reason. Everyone's reasons are their own and there are surely valid reasons for this mentioned throughout this thread.

So don't let that stop you, but just be honest about your age and business and have fun learning all you can. If you don't make it now, you might eventually be highly desirable to a company when you do get older, assuming you have the mind for this sort of field (and that is what it will ultimately come down to, as we all can agree). Until then, do what you can and don't let it bother you, when you get older, you'll get a fair shot just like all the rest of us (and maybe sooner if you do go for it). Good luck.

11 year olds know databases, so your right there. Kids know more than you may think, now.

Originally posted by whatever
11 year olds know databases, so your right there. Kids know more than you may think, now.

I personally never said that kids don't know anything, or even a good amount. I simply gave reasons why it makes a difference, because more people that are older usually know more. (Not comparing it to a clueless 40 year old, but people that are skilled in this field that are older and have been doing it longer). If you compare an 11 or 15 year old that knows a lot for their age, to a person that's 25 or 30 that knows a lot, you'll probably better understand that I'm saying -- and that's not to say the kid doesn't know a lot, especially for his age.

I'm 11 and i wasn't complaining about you.

Originally posted by whatever
I'm 11 and i wasn't complaining about you.

I couldn't tell who you were responding to (which is why I quote to avoid that, and I also probably needlessly quote the content as I go along responding to make sure that there's confusion), so I wouldn't take it personally -- not that I would anyway if I thought you were responding to me. Anyway, good luck with your ventures.

Sorry it was unclear, i was responding to someone who i couldn't remember there name, i should of checked.

Originally posted by whatever
Sorry it was unclear, i was responding to someone who i couldn't remember there name, i should of checked.

Not at all, it was entirely my fault. :-)

okay.

11 year olds know databases, so your right there. Kids know more than you may think, now.

What can you do with databases? Can you please list what you can do with databases: Please don't exagerate. I am interested in seeing which databases you can use, and exactly what you can do with them.

Originally posted by Prolix
Boris, is your example referring to Hostrocket per chance? If memory serves, Brendan was around 19 when HR was started - and it seems like John was even younger.


Im pretty sure he's not talking about us but I may be wrong...

-Brendan

Hey Brendan... long time no see.

Don't worry - the post wasn't about you and your company.

Best Regards,
Boris

I use the following database combinations Michael_Bray:
Access & ASP
PHP & Text files
PHP & MySQL (not alot tho)

I have read this whole thread and I guess age has its good points and bad points.

But something for everyone one that owns a hosting company to think about.

If a 14 year-old gets into your server, crashes everything, deletes files off the server and then finds a path or hole in your server to allow him into the backbone providers network. I guess I would have to ask. What does the fact that he was 14 years-old have to do with anything? Except the MO fits what a 14 year-old would do.

Knowledge isn't discriminating, it doesn't care weather your young, old, male or female. But what it took to break into your server did take some knowledge. More then the average web administrator knows.

CyberSorcerer

1. Can't legally bind contracts

Sorry to verge this off-topic, but at what age do you have to be to legally bind contracts?

Plus, how does delivering newspapers prepare them for adult life?

Obviously... Responsibility, hard work, and financial management.

I think it bores them, so when they get a job they realise how boring it is.

I want to meet a 14 year old running a hosting biz. And I wanna see the hosting biz. I, personally would be impressed if it were a well run company..


-ryan

than would you consider them?

Originally posted by whatever
than would you consider them?

:confused:

Use the quote button, makes it easier for everyone :D

I would like to talk to them, and make sure they knew what was really going on. If I felt comfortable enough, I don't see any reason why not.. I'm interested in seeing one of these. Does anyone know for sure of a company owned and operated by a 14 year old?

-ryan

Pawn I am LMAO :D

What about a guy who started the company who was 10 at the time?

http://www.bbb.org/alerts/galaxy090999.asp

He was only caught out at 14!!! But this gets better, the 14 year old company director ripped off an 11year old customer. LOL. :bawling:


More will come out - They are amoungst us!!!!

Well im 14 years of age right now.

I am thinking alot about being a reseller. I Know *alot* about hosting, i made my first site at the age of 10-11. I built my first computer at the age of 11. (which i run test and such of now but it works fine :) ) Im fairely skilled as a web designer and know im moving into learning c/c++. I Do have friends which are about 20 that are also helping me as tech people for are upcomeing site they dont know as much as me but i am teaching them. I seen a few people talking about "grounding" ect . Well my failmly does not beleave in this grounding nor would i be grounded becuase they know what im doing and if i do go on a date i will have one of are 4 teachs take over tell i get back. I know im new to the reseller world but i know that poeple like good tech help when needed and i am on msn every day for a long time too. I also will be starting a fully scripted irc room with tech help there. I dont see the different really if you know it the you know it right? if i can offer the same servise as any other reseller then why should my age matter?

thats my 2 cents :cool:

//sirgamesalot

Originally posted by sirgamesalot
Well im 14 years of age right now.

I am thinking alot about being a reseller. I Know *alot* about hosting, i made my first site at the age of 10-11. I built my first computer at the age of 11. (which i run test and such of now but it works fine :) ) Im fairely skilled as a web designer and know im moving into learning c/c++. I Do have friends which are about 20 that are also helping me as tech people for are upcomeing site they dont know as much as me but i am teaching them. I seen a few people talking about "grounding" ect . Well my failmly does not beleave in this grounding nor would i be grounded becuase they know what im doing and if i do go on a date i will have one of are 4 teachs take over tell i get back. I know im new to the reseller world but i know that poeple like good tech help when needed and i am on msn every day for a long time too. I also will be starting a fully scripted irc room with tech help there. I dont see the different really if you know it the you know it right? if i can offer the same servise as any other reseller then why should my age matter?

thats my 2 cents :cool:

//sirgamesalot

Sirgames,

You are doing well for yourself, and seem to have some knowledge, and thats good.

Unfortunately-- (Like a lot of people, even myself when I was younger) you dont know the LIMITS of what you know.

Keep working at everything, and dont stop learning, and you'll be ready to hit the ground running when you are of age.

Just something to think about--- Ive worked in the Industry (IT) for about 5 years now, and been dealing with computers for maybe the past 18 or 20 or something like that--- The people who decide they "know" something usually dont, because they decide they are experts and stop learning. Just be aware and watchful for that.

Well of course i dont know everything and i dont think anyone does I also took this reselling job to learn a little more about the web and how to run a bizness which if you learn at a young age is going to help you more when your older ( or at least i think it should)

Im for one that will never stop learning about computers, the web, programming ect. I dont know what i really want to be when i get older but the more i know the better off i will be. Got to be a good thing to put of my res-a-may (not the right spellling :)) built your first computer at 10 years of age and ran a small bizness at the age of 14.

I hope i do good in the work world Im almost not in this no make alot of money. i know its going to be very hard to get ahead to start making money but i know ill do just fine :stickout

//sirgamesalot

Grrr.. Learn your GRAMMAR and SPELLING!!

Other than that... good luck=]:cool:

OMG!!!
14 years old and you want to run a webhosting company?

My suggestion enjoy your life why you can....

Once your in the working field your in it for the rest of your life and no matter what you do it just becomes work after awhile. Enjoy your life and get a good education...

And i have to disagree with some of you a 14 year old is not capable of running a business successfully, no way.. there may be VERY FEW 14 year olds that break the norm that are genius or special but not many,, a 14 year old doesnt even know what the real world is like what he/she wants to do with their life, they dont even understand life...

14 years old......
How many bills do you have?
What responsibilities do you have?
What dependents do you have?
What type of work do you do?
What experience could you possibley have hands on?
WHAT FORM OF TRANSPORTATION <-------- ARE YOU GOING TO USE!

How long could you possibley manage to ride your bicycle to the colo facility every other day?
Bank accounts, checking account, investments, cash flow to get started/stay going, business license, registrations, tax reporting,

here is another big one = CUSTOMER SUPPORT, do you have 10-20 other 14 year olds that are capable of what you are and that are going to be partnering with you, because i dont know many adults that will...

Im sure you have a goal and that you want to accomplish it,but your goal now should be education/getting to know yourself/fun/girls/and developing character and personality,, what kind of business descisions can you make and negotiate or even handle properly at such a young age...

Reseller hosts should screen there clients much better if its possible for a 10-16 year old to get a reseller account, thats just rediculous...

my opinion, sorry if i offended you , but lets get real.

14 is way to young.