Hello,

Dear friends, I would like to get your opinion on the following conversations, which was made between a client of us and our technical department.

I believe use of web hosting services require a certain level of knowledge in the use of Internet languages, protocols, and software. This level of knowledge varies depending on the anticipated use and desired content of Client's web space by the Client. The following examples are offered:

- Web Publishing: requires knowledge of HTML, properly locating and linking documents, FTPing Web contents, Graphics, text, sound, image mapping, etc.

- FrontPage web publishing: knowledge of the FrontPage tools as well as Telnet and FTP understanding and capability.


** So, who's to be blame here ? ( Our Technical Department or client ? )


Here we go with the conversations:

Client's e-mail to Tech. department - # 1
==============================================
Hello my name is *******. I have a doman name basic package with you. My domain name is ------------.com

I had a web designer who was designing my journal using ftp and now I'm the one designing it, however I'm not quite familiar with it or microsoft front page

however, I'm familiar with html coding and I would like to do my pages working ina file editor section of the page.

now I'm not sure how to create a new file, edit the html area of the file, or rename files, so I can archive them.
however I have a good idea how to archive accept I would need to rename the file so the current opening page of my journal that is under my domain name, would have to be renamed and archived.

and the new page i would have that will be permanent would by under my domain name as the file name.

What I need is to be able to create new files, editing the html area of the file, (code the page manually in advanced edit) then I need to be able to create a director where the file should exist and link the files from there.
I need to able to rename my current first page of my site that is under ********.com (my domain name) and make the new page I create under my domain name.

I spent three house inside the control panel of my site and all I saw was create a new directory and upload files from your computer. I did not see anything that allow you to create a blank files and code it manually and I need to be able to do that. I know that many other places have that feature of advanced edit (html area of the files (documents)

that is what I need and have to have in order to do my pages now. If someone can assist me with finding out where this feature is in the control panel and how to go about creating directories and all that would be great.


please contact me as soon as possible with any technical support you can give. I would gladly appreciate it

Thank you - **********

==============================================


Our Tech. Department wrote him back :
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear **********,

Hello and greetings. Thank you for your e-mail.

AS per your questions, we do not provide any html editor at our control panel. However I can recommend you to download a HTML editor from http://www.download.com

Simply search for " Macromedia Dreamweaver ". Then download and install it on your hard drive. It has got all the documents with itself to let you know how you can create a html file, modify it, and etc.

Also, if you are interested, you can provide us with the pages/changes that you want to make on your web site, and we will be much happier to modify/change them for you.

Please advice.

*************
Tech. Deparmtent
Hostmatix.com


Client's e-mail to Tech. department - # 2
==============================================
Thank you for you quick response.

There is a few more questions.
When I download the html editor, how will I be able to put the pages that I have created and edited into the control panel at my site (***********)

So are you saying I would create and edit a page with the software you told me to download, but how would I get the page from there to the inside of my control panel.

I will most likely will be asking for more of yoru help over the next two weeks. Thank you very much for you reply and if you can answer my question regarding moving the file from the software you recommend to my control panel, i would be greatful.

Thanks again!
I look forward to your response
==============================================


Our Tech. Department wrote him back :
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You do not need have to save your files into your control panel. Once you created the html files with " Dreamweaver " then you need to have a FTP client ( File Transfer Portocol ).

FTP (File Transfer Protocol) is a means by which you may transfer files from one computer to another. When you have an account with us, the two computers involved are your desktop and your Hostmatix web server.

In order to make use of your web hosting account with us you need to move your Web site files from your desktop to your Hostmatix web server so that your site will be displayed live on the Internet. This process is called "uploading" files. At some time, you might also want to retrieve Web site files from your account with us and put them on your desktop computer to retain a back up copy of your site, for example. This process is called "downloading" your files.

FTP is also referred to as a software program, as you will need to obtain an FTP client and install it on your desktop to upload and download files to your Hostmatix.com hosted Web site account.

You can download a FTP client called " WS FTP Pro " from http://www.download.com

Once you installed WS FTP client, you will be asked to input the following information:
Hostname/IP : **********.com
username : ******
password : ******

Then simply you have to do some drags and drops, and your site is up and running :-)

I would highly recommend you to first download " Macromedia Dreamweaver " and read the documents which really helps you to learn these stuffs.

Yours,

*************
Tech. Deparmtent
Hostmatix.com

Client's e-mail to Tech. department - # 3
==============================================
I'm having alot of problems with most of the software I downloaded for the html editor I needed. I'm pressing for time to publish my next issue, I need the html editor as soon as possible and you don't provide that. I have no choice put to cancel my package with you, because I can not operate your control panel
or html editor at your site and I need that. I don't have any more time to waist and I'm sorry for leaving so early in my package, but your control panel is much to advanced me, very difficult to work and does not have the main thing that i need to create my next issue.

Thank you for your help, but I can not operate my, manage my issues, or
create them with your package or control panel.

If someone could contact me in regards to canceling my package and keeping the domain name, I would be greatful.


=========================================

**** What do you think ?

I appreciate any input.

LOLOLOL :D That is sad.

Originally posted by HeadMaster
I appreciate any input.

Occasionally a client will come along who really has no experience with these things. Sometimes what is worse is a client who doesn't have the experience but thinks that they do. They have gotten hold of a few pieces of terminology and they're keen as mustard. In either case, you can only chip away with guidance and help like you have done so above (quite amicably). Do you run a forum? Invite them into your forum and ask that they post these more general questions there, so that others may benefit from the responses. Or if it is for a business site, you could recommend that they employ the services of a local developer to get them up and running.

But you have offered some good advice so far. Good luck with the outcome.

Regards

Gary

I'd refund him. You've done all that could be expected.

Gary & Robert,

I really appreciate your comments. At least with your comments I calmed down.

This is really bad when they think you are responsible for every single thing related to their web site !

We really wanted to help him, even a tech. staff asked him :

Also, if you are interested, you can provide us with the pages/changes that you want to make on your web site, and we will be much happier to modify/change them for you.

Anyways. These things happens quite often, we are the ones who got to educate some of our clients.

Have a wonderful day :-)

Originally posted by SoftWareRevue
I'd refund him. You've done all that could be expected.

Hello SoftWareRevue,

Of course we have refunded him as per his request. Sometimes having less kinda clients is much better than having hundreds of them, even paying you good.

Thanks for your comment SoftWareRevue.

wow

Originally posted by SoftWareRevue
I'd refund him. You've done all that could be expected.


Yes, i agree.. you have done everything you could and although you may seem it as a waste, a refund would be proper.

I do appreciate that you walked this out with the guy/gal and that you didnt give up or throw in the towel. :-) However, i think i speak on behalf of every host here.. we all have clients like that. I just try to remember that one day when I was new. Eww.. bad day ;)

Originally posted by ecpHosting



Yes, i agree.. you have done everything you could and although you may seem it as a waste, a refund would be proper.

I do appreciate that you walked this out with the guy/gal and that you didnt give up or throw in the towel. :-) However, i think i speak on behalf of every host here.. we all have clients like that. I just try to remember that one day when I was new. Eww.. bad day ;)

Absolutely right....

I'm sure most of the web hosting providers are having the same problem as I do. So we have to whether educate the clients in some way ( good to get some ideas about how to do it ) or simply refund them :-)

But also there's another problem... They will find WHT and will post a negative thread about you. " My Bad Experience with Hostmatix.com " BE AWARE !! LOOOL

Have a nice day my friends

PS: More inputs please. I'd like to your same experiences.

Originally posted by HeadMaster
But also there's another problem... They will find WHT and will post a negative thread about you.

Those who have found WHT before them will generally understand these situations though. Nobody is in the wrong. Your client needs to learn or be taught, and that's not your ultimate responsibility. We all try to go an extra mile, but sometimes that wont be enough. It happens.

Regards

Gary

Originally posted by HeadMaster
. . . . . . .But also there's another problem... They will find WHT and will post a negative threat about you. " My Bad Experience with Hostmatix.com " BE AWARE !! . . . . . This I don't agree with.
Don't ever let the fear of negative publicity on WHT be the deciding factor on how you run your business.
The members of this forum are far too intelligent to be swayed by unsubstantiated claims of poor service.
I have seen, on several occasions, consumers post to bash a host; only to be told by our wise members that the problem was theirs and not the host.

In your example, the customer admittedly had no clue. And although I commend your efforts on trying to enlighten him; you would have been much better off recommending other services to him in the initial response. There are plenty of hosts that offer on-line editors that would have, obviously, better suited this client.

Your tech showed great patience though. :)

Hello,

Well... I do agree with both of you and have changed my mind. As you mentioned, there are far too intelligent business owners than can understand each another.

I can just imagine how :angry: I would become, if I was handling tech. support as a member of team.

Occasionally a client will come along who really has no experience with these things. Sometimes what is worse is a client who doesn't have the experience but thinks that they do. They have gotten hold of a few pieces of terminology and they're keen as mustard.

How true! I cringe everytime a potential customer calls and prefaces the conversation with, "I'm in the industry". Example the other day a guy said to me, "Hi I'm in the industry and I need some IPs". Are you an existing customer? "No". Are you on our network? "No." I don't know what industry you are in, but how can I sell you IP space?

Originally posted by the-admiral


How true! I cringe everytime a potential customer calls and prefaces the conversation with, "I'm in the industry". Example the other day a guy said to me, "Hi I'm in the industry and I need some IPs". Are you an existing customer? "No". Are you on our network? "No." I don't know what industry you are in, but how can I sell you IP space?

You know what the scary thing is? They probably were 'in the industry'. I've talked with 'hosts' who don't know how to SSH into their servers. It's quite alarming.

HeadMaster your tech handled it well there will always be one or two come along you just have to hand hold as long as you can then let them go if they wish.

I had one client that did not know how to use front page, after 38 emails I finally got them to send the files to me I published the site and spent 2 hours fixing broken code, but then 2 days later get an email telling me the site was not working again. I looked at and they had uninstalled the FP extensions and then reinstalled them again wiping all I had done out.

I explained it all republished the site again, then to top it all after all this on the 28th day I get an email asking for the their money back under the 30 day warranty, which I gladly gave to get rid of em.

There is only so much you can do.

Originally posted by SoftWareRevue
This I don't agree with.
Don't ever let the fear of negative publicity on WHT be the deciding factor on how you run your business.
The members of this forum are far too intelligent to be swayed by unsubstantiated claims of poor service.
I have seen, on several occasions, consumers post to bash a host; only to be told by our wise members that the problem was theirs and not the host.

In your example, the customer admittedly had no clue. And although I commend your efforts on trying to enlighten him; you would have been much better off recommending other services to him in the initial response. There are plenty of hosts that offer on-line editors that would have, obviously, better suited this client.

Your tech showed great patience though. :)

Hello,

Can you please recommend me the host that offer on-line editors that would have, obviously, better suited this client. So I can give some ideas to my valued client ( Even he left us already ) ?

Your response is highly appreciated in advance.

Just do a search on google for "site builders" there are quite a number of them

Monte,

It's sad to hear that.... You try your best to provide the best possible service they could ever get, and suddenly on the 28th day, you'll receive a refund request via e-mail.

However, I believe sometimes having less kinda clients is much better than having hundreds of them, even paying you good.

Wish you lucks with your business Monte.

Have a great day my friend :-)

Originally posted by net-trend
Just do a search on google for "site builders" there are quite a number of them

Dear friend,

I simply meant " A hosting provider that offers site builder along with their standard features. "

Any idea ?

Even a host with a site builder I am afraid after reading that exchange, would be pulling their hair out with HeadMasters former client.

Also, if you are interested, you can provide us with the pages/changes that you want to make on your web site, and we will be much happier to modify/change them for you.

Set a limit. Like Rack Shack. I would never let our support dept. do this. You do it once, you do it a hundred times. Guaranteed, this person would be back asking the same questions and 'demanding' the same support. If you are not set on what you and your support staff will do, this happens:



I had one client that did not know how to use front page, after 38 emails I finally got them to send the files to me I published the site and spent 2 hours fixing broken code, but then 2 days later get an email telling me the site was not working again. I looked at and they had uninstalled the FP extensions and then reinstalled them again wiping all I had done out.

I explained it all republished the site again, then to top it all after all this on the 28th day I get an email asking for the their money back under the 30 day warranty, which I gladly gave to get rid of em.

I'd say you've done a fantastic job of supporting him, probably better than me when I did support (well, maybe just as good :p)

This isn't rare at all. At least he could formulate a complete sentence.

I have a customer. English speaking, educated and very well spoken in person, however, His e-mails are jibberish. Really. I spend most of my time trying to figure out what he's talking about.

Example:

Damn it. 1,2,3,4,5 and a lot of Jpg.s before I jumped out and we emailed each other about forwarding to a Cpanel .

It's not a big deal I just have to spend about another 5 hours rebulding it.


This is the entire e-mail. Out of the blue. No previous conversation.

How am I supposed to reply to something like this?

Aaron

Originally posted by Monte
Even a host with a site builder I am afraid after reading that exchange, would be pulling their hair out with HeadMasters former client.

I agree....

But there are also lots of hosts around which are looking for few bucks per customer, they don't care whether their client is happy with their customer/technical support or not.

Originally posted by UmBillyCord


Set a limit. Like Rack Shack. I would never let our support dept. do this. You do it once, you do it a hundred times. Guaranteed, this person would be back asking the same questions and 'demanding' the same support. If you are not set on what you and your support staff will do, this happens:


While I agree with your premise, as a small host you have to bend over backwards for your customers. The vast majority will never take advantage of you for it either. There will always be that 1 or 2 % come along that will and when that happens you go as far as you can then say no more.

Dunno it is just not in my blood to do as RachShack does.

Dunno it is just not in my blood to do as RachShack does.

If you grow, you will. We learned this from experience. I am a huge number cruncher. I keep stats on everything, including stuff like this. We have found we need to be stiff on support and billing. No lead way. This doesn't mean we suck at support. Quite the opposite. We have a large customerbase. We have maybe one or two complaints. Non here! We have been ith the BBB online for going on three years. People can go right to our site and file a complaint online. Real easy. We have one complaint and it was resolved! My point is that being strict on what you support does not equal bad service.

It is great for small host to handhold. That is a way to build a base. But there comes a point where this is no longer possible. Things like freely working on peoples scripts or web sites just add up to costing you more then that person pays.

When you go to a bookstore and buy a book in German. Is it that person behind the desk responsibilty to teach you German or read it out load for you? No. Same with hosting. Put 100% toward ensuring everything you *offfer* is supported and working. Your customer needs to now make sure they handle their end.

Monte,

Regarding limiting the support like RackShack, I do agree with you as well.

How may % of RackShack's clients are happy with their limited support ? I'm not saying they are not happy with their service, but their support. Simply whatever you ask them, whether they tell you to look into the forum, or they don't provide support for that. It's fine... since they are providing un-managed dedicated servers.

But what about a hosting company, can they be the same ? of course not. All the hosting companies are claiming superior customer service, excellent , best etc. So, would you count a hosting provider which limits the support like RackShack as an Excellent customer support ? There are far too many web hosting providers, it's like a flash for a client to move to a new host.

We have mentioned in our acceptable usage policy that support is just limited to problems that rise from our end, however as a favor we will try our bests to help you with your problem.

There are far too many third party scripts, databases, and etc. that you cannot provide support for that. It takes ages to get to know to system and they way each of them work. I believe most of hosting providers will not support third party stuffs.

Originally posted by Winkie
I'd say you've done a fantastic job of supporting him, probably better than me when I did support (well, maybe just as good :p)

Hello,

I appreciate your kind comments. Thank you for your understanding :-)

All I can say is WOW! I think we all have experienced similar conversations with customers. Your tech staffs professionalism really shined through and you did what you could for the customer. Everything else aside the person was lucky to have you as a host. Keep in mind maybe they will be back when they become a little more knowledgable with html :)

I agree that this person was a little... needy. But speaking from someone who can't use FTP, and who writes HTML onsite through a control panel, not having those features is very frustrating.

Next time, this person will know better and ask a host who will supply him with what he needs. It sucks that you got caught up in his growing pains, though.

Originally posted by Mr.G
All I can say is WOW! I think we all have experienced similar conversations with customers. Your tech staffs professionalism really shined through and you did what you could for the customer. Everything else aside the person was lucky to have you as a host. Keep in mind maybe they will be back when they become a little more knowledgable with html :)

Mr. G ,

Hmmmm, Don't know how to answer to your kind comments. a Big thank you :-)

I hope our tech. department deserve that.

I'm sure all the hosting providers are trying to keep their clients happy, otherwise they are gone in 60 seconds. Cause an experienced person said, it's much easier to sell to whom you've already sold. Better to keep your current clients happy, rather than looking for new customers.

And of course we are following the leaders, and taking advantage of their experiences. They are good in support, so we've gotta be good as well.

Heh, heh.
Yes, your tech gave them good answers that they won't get at a lot of other hosts.
People like to be treated special. No matter what you do, you will get people who want a 'little' more.
Not only do I have tutorials on html, index files, creating files, FTPing, ect., I also have a a WYSIWYG editor in their control panel, plus a "Make changes" form that lets them enter any changes they want me to make for them. (no charge for one instance per month for as many changes as they can fit on the form. LOL) For image changes, all they have to do is, fill out the above form telling me the name of pic and where they want it. (for security reasons, I make it two steps, which is all logged) They are automatically sent the URL and password to the actual upload page. They hit the browse button select the file, and hit the upload button. They can also email me the changes.
Either way, this would take them ten minutes max, and me about the same to download, optimise the pic, upload the new one, and make the change.
So what do people do? They call and tell me they will be dropping off some pics for me to scan and change. This will take them 30 minutes driving time one way, at least 20 minutes talking about it, ect. By the time they leave, I could have done it ten times over.

Oh, well, at least they are happy.

All the hosting companies are claiming superior customer service, excellent , best etc. So, would you count a hosting provider which limits the support like RackShack as an Excellent customer support ?

RS does not sell managed services. So their support does *exactly* what you are paying for. So yes, it is good support. If you go and buy a hotdog for $.05 without a bun, are you going to complain when it doesn't come witht he bun? If you are, then buy a hotdog that comes with one. Most people who buy low-spec, cheap servers know they will be unmanaged. So they got exactly what they paid for and they understand that. It is the cheap skates that want the world on a platter for pennies who don't get it. These are the ones who complain about RS support. "Why didn't they rebuild apache and install my custom built software? :bawling: They suck!".

ATST, as a one person show, you can do these things. But when you have 10 techs helping hundreds of tickets a day, these type of service levels are not possible. A customer paying $10.00/mo can cost you way more in employee salaries and other expenses just to help in a way you are doing. Unless you calculate this type of "Fanatical" support into your prices (like Rack SPACE), youare losing money on that customer.

Anyway, just my though on it.

Hello,

Well I just want to appreciate all your inputs and Im very interested in hearing such experiences that you had with your clients.

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by HeadMaster


Dear friend,

I simply meant " A hosting provider that offers site builder along with their standard features. "

Any idea ?

Umm, that was what i was saying exactly. Search on google for the term" site builder web hosting" and it will show which web hosting companies have it.

Plain and simple.

LOL. I know I shouldn't laugh, but some people are hopeless when it comes to the internet.

Originally posted by HeadMaster
Can you please recommend me the host that offer on-line editors that would have, obviously, better suited this client.

http://homestead.com ?

You should make it clear in your ToS and hosting plan page the scope of reasonable support to:

- protect yourself from clients like this who abuse tech support (whether or not intentionally)
- let your clients know that they are expected to know the 'basics' of webpages

Hello,

Thanks for your post and your suggestion.

We have already listed this in our Acceptable Usage Policy, but seems when they want tech. support, they don't care about anything. They just want their technical issue to be resolved. And Simply we cannot address them to our AUP and tell them OK ! due to this and this we cannot give you support, this is not supported.

Just leave them in the past. If they were that dependent on your support team, they would have most likely caused more problems.

Can you please recommend me the host that offer on-line editors that would have, obviously, better suited this client. So I can give some ideas to my valued client ( Even he left us already ) ?

ever tried running something like trellix?

I also just realized that your company has control panel demos...So, they should have known better when they signed up :rolleyes:

Originally posted by ChickenFart


ever tried running something like trellix?

No... What's it about and where can I get additional info ?

Anyway, thanks for advising.

Originally posted by dreamHOBO
I also just realized that your company has control panel demos...So, they should have known better when they signed up :rolleyes:

Yeah, we provide our clients with choice of Ensim 3.0 and Cpanel 5.0. We have highly recommened the visitors to test drive it before they sign-up.

Anyway, he's gone now.... By having a new client, you won't become rich and by loosing him, you won't be poor.

No... What's it about and where can I get additional info ?
http://www.trellix.com/products/sitebuilding.asp <-- check that out. Although this is far after the fact, and a lot of trouble for just one customer, it's a program your customers use to make basic websites.

::EDIT::

But i'm sure there are plenty of cheaper and simpler solutions :)

Hello,

I'll take a look at their web site, to get more info. I appreciate your input and suggestion.

Have a wonderful day ChickenFart.

Originally posted by HeadMaster
Hello,

Thanks for your post and your suggestion.

We have already listed this in our Acceptable Usage Policy, but seems when they want tech. support, they don't care about anything. They just want their technical issue to be resolved. And Simply we cannot address them to our AUP and tell them OK ! due to this and this we cannot give you support, this is not supported.

I understand you can't just turn them away like that. the clause in your AUP is just to protect yourself in case they go to extremes and try to tarnish your merchant account record, etc...

However, it isn't really fair to you if you have to answer endless open ended questions about webpage basics. In this case I usually refer this person to other resources, for example a program or tutorial that will help them out. 94.2% of the time they will leave you alone for the most part.

Hello,

Our tech. department has done whatever could be done. They even asked him to provide us with the pages/changes that he want to make on his web site, and we will be much happier to modify/change them for him.

Isn't it enough ?

As earlier a friend mentioned, there are always some people who need 'little' more :-)

I think he's basically saying you should draw the line somewhere. You shouldn't be responsible for any scripting issues at all. The farthest i'd go is to send the customer a few links or tell him/her to consult the helpfiles for whatever program he/she is having issues with (if the program isn't a mail program or something and has to do with scripting)

Don't get me wrong, I help my customers as much as they can, but there is just a point after which they are asking for too much; when you are spending hours trying to help them learn the web, it is really not reasonable to spend so much time teaching them something that is not directly related to the hosting.