Now, to my fellow brothers and sisters who have the financial means to do so, please disregard this post.

As most of you might already know, I have been on a huge kick about removing all of these 'Kiddie Hosts' from WHT.

Have it be from maxing out their bandwidth, or defacing them by showing the WHT community the lies they spread!


As most people know, reseller accounts are the coolest thing since viagra!

It allows the average joe to become his/her own Company!

Now, I say "Company" in quotes, as I do not consider them a real company. Let me explain further,


Most kiddie hosts have access to some sort of a WHM panel via cPanel. This feature allows even resellers to offer reseller accounts.

So its a multi tiered pyramid of resellers!


Gixxer PC has been in business for some time now under various DBA names, but the owners, the experience, and the staff remain all of the same. (For those who want to go whois our domain name).


Last week, we looked pretty deep into our servers and found out that one of our clients was basically the top tier of a 7 tier reseller pyramid! What does that mean?

Reseller 1 (our initial client) sells a reseller account to reseller 2. Reseller 2 then does the same, for Reseller 3. So on and so forth for 7 tiers!


Ultimately, we're the ones left with the support. Lets say Reseller 7 has a client who has an issue which is only fixable via SSH(Root). As per policy, a standard reseller does not have access to this feature. So Client from Reseller 7 submits a ticket to Reseller 7. Reseller 7 then contacts Reseller 6, then 6 to 5, 5 to 4, 4 to 3, 3 to 2, 2 to 1, 1 to us.

Thats what we like to call a 'Cluster F**K'. Client 7 is getting strung around by a 7 tiered support system!

And ultimately, reseller 7 is dependent on reseller 1's plan!

So for Reseller 1, he now has the power of god if you will.

If Reseller 1's account can not handle what he/she claims it does, and it gets suspended due to maxing out bandwidth/diskspace, then he/she will be the one responsible for defacing 6 other "companies" below him/her.


It saddens me to see when such a thing happens. I understand that people want to make some money, and they think that web hosting is easy.

Web Hosting as an industry might be easy from a reseller's point of view, but not for the parent company in question.

It doesnt take much effort to set up a few scripts such as WHMCS and a PayPal account and let the money roll in.


We've even had resellers ultimately forward their support email to ours. So it became a hands free operation for them.

Not a bad idea right?

Well, we cant deny fixing the problem, as technically it is coming from our client.

But what happens is, when we reply. We don't know if they are then relaying the information!

It saddens me to see people come to these "solutions" to earn a quick buck nowadays.

. . . Most kiddie hosts have access to some sort of a WHM panel via cPanel. This feature allows even resellers to offer reseller accounts.
You'll need additional software for that. You can't do that with a straight cpanel install. Resellers cannot create other reseller accounts in cpanel. Resellers can create single domain accounts for their customers, but not full reseller accounts with reseller WHM access.

Just thought that needed some clarification. :peace:

You'll need additional software for that. You can't do that with a straight cpanel install. Resellers cannot create other reseller accounts in cpanel. Resellers can create single domain accounts for their customers, but not full reseller accounts with reseller WHM access.

Just thought that needed some clarification. :peace:

This is incorrect as our resellers are able to do so.

Thank you for the post though.

This is incorrect as our resellers are able to do so.

Thank you for the post though.


Well you're either using third party software along with cpanel or you do not have the accounts setup properly. Standard reseller accounts do not have the ability to create other reseller accounts.

Well you're either using third party software along with cpanel or you do not have the accounts setup properly. Standard reseller accounts do not have the ability to create other reseller accounts.
This is correct. I've been working with Cpanel since 2001, and reseller clients cannot create other full reseller (WHM access) accounts. It's just not possible, unless you have 3rd party software to do this.

Bob is correct resellers cannot create reseller accounts unless you set the software up to do it on your servers and if you did you have no one to blame but yourself for it.

Bob is correct resellers cannot create reseller accounts unless you set the software up to do it on your servers and if you did you have no one to blame but yourself for it.

That and I hope they're not giving all their resellers root access. :D I can't think of any other way to explain how the method is being done lol

Bob is correct (thought I'd join the bandwagon).

But in other aspects I agree with what your saying and chains of resellers isn't good for the end user.

Bob is correct (thought I'd join the bandwagon).

But in other aspects I agree with what your saying and chains of resellers isn't good for the end user.

I always thought that was a screwy idea from the start, just seems like a house of cards ready to fall.

Kind of like the world banking system:D

I've haven't seen sub-reseller option without using 3rd party script since early days of cPanel.

Gixxerpc you need to check on this.

They could do reseller type accounts, using addon domains, but not being able to setup full reseller accounts with WHM access. You need root access for that, or 3rd party software that allows you to do such - which IMO is a horrible idea. One layer of resellers on the server is bad enough, without adding multiple layers of resellers. :S

Reseller 1 (our initial client) sells a reseller account to reseller 2. Reseller 2 then does the same, for Reseller 3. So on and so forth for 7 tiers!

Why the ***** do you allow resellers and even sub-reseller to create resellers accounts? :eek: You started this mess yourself with allowing that.

Now, to my fellow brothers and sisters who have the financial means to do so, please disregard this post.

As most of you might already know, I have been on a huge kick about removing all of these 'Kiddie Hosts' from WHT.

Have it be from maxing out their bandwidth, or defacing them by showing the WHT community the lies they spread!


As most people know, reseller accounts are the coolest thing since viagra!

It allows the average joe to become his/her own Company!

Now, I say "Company" in quotes, as I do not consider them a real company. Let me explain further,


Most kiddie hosts have access to some sort of a WHM panel via cPanel. This feature allows even resellers to offer reseller accounts.

So its a multi tiered pyramid of resellers!


Gixxer PC has been in business for some time now under various DBA names, but the owners, the experience, and the staff remain all of the same. (For those who want to go whois our domain name).


Last week, we looked pretty deep into our servers and found out that one of our clients was basically the top tier of a 7 tier reseller pyramid! What does that mean?

Reseller 1 (our initial client) sells a reseller account to reseller 2. Reseller 2 then does the same, for Reseller 3. So on and so forth for 7 tiers!


Ultimately, we're the ones left with the support. Lets say Reseller 7 has a client who has an issue which is only fixable via SSH(Root). As per policy, a standard reseller does not have access to this feature. So Client from Reseller 7 submits a ticket to Reseller 7. Reseller 7 then contacts Reseller 6, then 6 to 5, 5 to 4, 4 to 3, 3 to 2, 2 to 1, 1 to us.

Thats what we like to call a 'Cluster F**K'. Client 7 is getting strung around by a 7 tiered support system!

And ultimately, reseller 7 is dependent on reseller 1's plan!

So for Reseller 1, he now has the power of god if you will.

If Reseller 1's account can not handle what he/she claims it does, and it gets suspended due to maxing out bandwidth/diskspace, then he/she will be the one responsible for defacing 6 other "companies" below him/her.


It saddens me to see when such a thing happens. I understand that people want to make some money, and they think that web hosting is easy.

Web Hosting as an industry might be easy from a reseller's point of view, but not for the parent company in question.

It doesnt take much effort to set up a few scripts such as WHMCS and a PayPal account and let the money roll in.


We've even had resellers ultimately forward their support email to ours. So it became a hands free operation for them.

Not a bad idea right?

Well, we cant deny fixing the problem, as technically it is coming from our client.

But what happens is, when we reply. We don't know if they are then relaying the information!

It saddens me to see people come to these "solutions" to earn a quick buck nowadays.

now I get what your talking about separate resellers selling your resellers then they buy another one from you am I correct or way off ??? if not I've hared of this script you can install threw ssh it's called a master reseller were you can sell resellers ..

You are chasing the industry that feeds you.
This is a free market, people find cunning ways to make money, competition
drops prices. To tell you my opinion you have found the wrong way
to market yourself.
On another episode you are talking about overselling. I noticed that your prices
have fallen about 60% on the same plans almost.

While your posts are informative you should be careful because sometimes are
words and our actions can turn against us.

With my host, I do not allow resellers to resell. I feel the same way as you.

Good luck getting rid of those hosts!

I think most of us are holding the wrong end of the stick here.

I think he means...

customer a is buying a reseller package from him lets say the reseller package is called Z....

so customer a buys reseller plan z from him. then customer A changes the name and price of the plan and sells it on to customer B and just sends the client into to that new customer.

basically reselling a reseller plan.

its commonly done but not with reseller plans, its mostly done these days via dedicated servers.

e.g. customer a buys dedicated server from <INSERT PROVIDER> and sells it on to a new customer of that customer a 'company'.

Most kiddie hosts have access to some sort of a WHM panel via cPanel. This feature allows even resellers to offer reseller accounts.

So its a multi tiered pyramid of resellers!

Only if you set it up that way by installing third party software...

Most of our reseller accounts tend to be sold to web design companies. Companies that want the resources and the flexibility of being able to create web hosting accounts and controlling features etc, but without the time or expertise to manage a server themselves.

Im a bit confused. It seems like the OP is complaining about an issue that he is creating himself.

I agree that the WHM subresellers or whatever script its called is a bad idea and in majority of cases, it just results in oversold servers with users getting poor support. I have no problem with resellers (I have many of them). Im just againts the whole multi tiered reseller thing (resellers creating resellers).

This is correct. I've been working with Cpanel since 2001, and reseller clients cannot create other full reseller (WHM access) accounts. It's just not possible, unless you have 3rd party software to do this.

Don't you just love it when some blow hard comes around here and tries to act like they know it all, then you have one of the most reputable faces in the industry (Aussie Bob) put them in their place?

This is just another story by GixxarPC. Don't get me wrong, it's great bedtime reading but I would take everything said by him with a huge grain of salt.

Just to back up my claim that everything GixxerPC says should be taken with a huge grain of salt, I'd like to reference two threads:

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=698683
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=660756

Why these two threads you ask? Well, in the first thread you'll see GixxerPC claim he had 300 clients with Rapid City Hosting. Not bad, right? Well, he ended up selling the company in the second thread where only 26 clients were listed.

I'll let WHT be the judge as to if these stories are credible or not. :)

Why the ***** do you allow resellers and even sub-reseller to create resellers accounts? :eek: You started this mess yourself with allowing that.

This thread did not require you to point a finger and to curse.

I am not 'complaining', merely pointing out my experiences.

Good day to you.

This thread did not require you to point a finger and to curse.

Yes it did! You're pointing the finger at other people for the way they choose to run a business, when you yourself are guilty of the very same actions. Hypocrites! :rolleyes:

Just to back up my claim that everything GixxerPC says should be taken with a huge grain of salt, I'd like to reference two threads:

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=698683
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=660756

Why these two threads you ask? Well, in the first thread you'll see GixxerPC claim he had 300 clients with Rapid City Hosting. Not bad, right? Well, he ended up selling the company in the second thread where only 26 clients were listed.

I'll let WHT be the judge as to if these stories are credible or not. :)

I really do enjoy seeing people like yourself taking their time to find 'dirt' on me.

If you would of read back even further, you'd also know that we sold our clients per account type in the past.

That thread you were referring too was merely shared hosting.



Thank you for your time to make me 'look bad'. Im going to go kill myself from the shame you've caused me.

Thank you for your time to make me 'look bad'. Im going to go kill myself from the shame you've caused me.

Don't be so dramatic, you're just mad that I'm exposing your stories, and had you stopped posting such mindless dribbling BS I wouldn't have taken an interest.

You sold those 300 clients? Where exactly did you sell them, because it wasn't WHT. Rapid City Hosting only has about 50 domains, that's a far cry from the 300 you claimed, or ... I'll stop guessing and let you write up another story to explain this one.

:popcorn:

Yes it did! You're pointing the finger at other people for the way they choose to run a business, when you yourself are guilty of the very same actions. Hypocrites! :rolleyes:

I can only assume your the tool thats been logging onto our website from canada and wasting our time via live chat.

If you are, I ask you to stop.

Id also appreciate it if you dont have anything nice, or informational to say, to stay out of my threads.

I can only assume your the tool thats been logging onto our website from canada and wasting our time via live chat.

No. Unfortunately, Canada is a very large country with a large percentage of internet users, so I apologize if a fellow Canadian has been acting like a moron on your live help.

Additionally, as you are posting on a public forum and feel the need to slam certain aspects of the industry, you can expect a little bit of negativity towards your comments. If you don't like it, feel free to stop posting such silly rants.

Im curious Pat, How old are you?

Do you have nothing better to do?

Kids? Wife(or Husband)? Homework? Recess?

Your seriously acting more immature than my 2 year old does when I tell him he cant have ice cream. Only difference is, he doesn't find more excuses as to why he's right.

If you feel the need to continue this conversation forward, feel free to PM me. Or give me the word and i'll call you.

<more dribbling bs>

I like how you deflect the questions regarding your integrity when you are cornered with absolutely no way out to back up your claims, just like a true Bill O'Reilly!

To answer your questions, I'm older than you (at least judging by your colorful MySpace profile...), happily have a girlfriend who works at a law firm as a Trademark Paralegal, and no kids that I'm aware of. :)

To be fair as you are the original poster, I will stop replying ... assuming you have no further replies.

Atleast thats one thing we can relate on. We both have kids that we might not be aware of.


And yes, my 'colorful' MySpace profile is of my new toy.

a 2008 GSX-R 750.


and thank you for stopping your replies. Have a good day.

This thread appears to have run it's course now. :wht: