Overselling as a new host will do nothing but cause you headaches, especially from people like myself. Why? let myself explain a bit further.


With the ever so increasing competition from 'kiddie hosts' as I like to call them ("Owners" around the age of 15, pre 18), tend to post up an insanely oversold package for $1-2 a month.


I like to consider myself an informer to new businesses. I dont mind helping newbies to the industry on the ins and outs of running a business. Obviously, I am no expect, but I like to consider myself 'far ahead of others' with over 5 years of business owning experience.



But lets not get side tracked. Why you shouldn't oversell.

Hasn't your mom or dad ever taught you that lying is bad? Nothing is more disrespectful than to lie to someone.


Now to us old timers, do you remember those little dinosaur sponges that when you got them wet, they were advertised to grow to a massive size? After begging mom, or dad for that $5 to buy a pack, you eagerly rush them through the store to hurry their butts up so you can get home to play with it?

Only to put that water on your dinosaur, only for it to grow a mere 1-2 mm's?


Its basically the same with overselling. You get naive people to believe in what your selling, only for them to be given a hand full of lies.



In my journey to get people to stop with this act of lying, ive decided to conduct a journey.


Let me explain a bit,

<my site> uses approx 7tb of bandwidth, and has approx 1tb of total files in backups.

We have set out to find some of these hosts, ask them if they oversell, only to receive the ever so popular answer of "No". I then inform them I will set up a 1 month account with them. If they please me, I will then sign up for their biggest account, and prepay for a year! Naturally this gets people going!

After carefully reading the TOS and seeing that either A. they dont have one, or B. nothing says anything about backup hosting.


I set up an account, and setup our servers to use them as 'Backup hosting' as well as our own blend of backups.


Within the first 6 hours of me signing up, we put out approx 25Gig's of bandwidth from us to them. Hold on...Im getting an error in my email saying that our server cant communicate with theirs?

I view my 'webspace' and see that my accounts been suspended for 'excessive bandwidth'. Well what the hell, I am paying $2.25 for 1TB of bandwidth a month!

I visit their website, only to get the same error. Wow...a webhost's own site is suspended? He must of made his mom mad, and she shut off his business!

Luckily, I remembered to get his aim/msn name. I contact him asking what the deal is.

He then replies with "Sorry Sir, our server had a problem!" I said, "a problem on a new companies server?", he replied with "Yes, but we will transfer you to another server of ours".

After about 3 hours, my sites magically up again, as is his, and I have the same old IP. But they claim Im on a completely new server. I continue to play dumb.

He asks me some questions about what im uploading. I said "Files". He then says "They look like cPanel files", I said "Why are you looking at my files?". He replies back with "We like to ensure the safety of our servers to prevent viruses". Understood. But I didnt think looking at files could do that? I thought thats why cPanel included a virus scanner, plus there is always other programs you could use. Right?

I resubmit my backups, they continue the job. not 15min later. Server is down again.

Ask him what the deal is..again! Same old response.

After the course of 2 more hours. He eventually canceled my account, and refunded my money. Total time from signup to cancellation was 6 hours.


I did this to about 8 more 'companies'. All from this lovely website.

Each and every single one failed my test.


Moral of the story, quit overselling, or atleast add that you dont allow backup hosting, or someone like me will come and make you lose money.

Yes, i understand that overselling will take you to the end of the line, it is a question of time.

How who is new in the market can compete with oversellers? We can not compare a company that provides services have 10 years to a company that started in the beginning of the year.

It's hard. But i liked your point of view.

Yes, i understand that overselling will take you to the end of the line, it is a question of time.

How who is new in the market can compete with oversellers? We can not compare a company that provides services have 10 years to a company that started in the beginning of the year.

It's hard. But i liked your point of view.

Sure you can. Don't sell based on Disk Space and Bandwidth. Of course the gold mine can be locally with local business. But also it can be other things. You can advertise certain features, like for instance cPanel has a Mobile Skin, right? You could advertise that you can control your website from a web enabled mobile device (WAP). There's a lot of stuff like that.

You can also, get involved with certain communities. For example, you could sponsor a community site about photography and advertise about some sort of online Gallery software that you have in Fantastico/Installatron.

I mean, really, its not about putting up a website with the same old bland stuff, its about setting yourself apart from the pack.

Gixxer, PM'ed you some questions.

Wow Gixxer, very nice!
I was going to do something like this but you bet me to the chase :P
Well done on catching our those hosts, and wow... 6 hours from
signup to cancellation, brilliant!
Thanks for this, Gixxer! :agree:

Great eye opener.

Great post GixxerPC.

Name and shame the companies that kicked you. :D

Well what the hell, I am paying $2.25 for 1TB of bandwidth a month!

This made me laugh.... sorry couldn't resist.

Thank you GixxerPC. Very useful post. I will share you thread in other forums also.

I got this article from the web, I hope this will help explain the concept of Overselling and help understand the positiver and deltas for the same -

What's Overselling: Overselling is a term used in the web hosting industry to describe a situation in which a company provides hosting service that are unsustainable if every one of its customers uses the full extent of services advertised. The term is usually referred to the web space and bandwidth transfer allowance, but now has been extent to the service after the selling.

Below is an example will give you a better understanding about what's overselling:

If web hosting company has a server with disk space 100GB, and it will host 10 web sites for different customers and promise 20GB diskspace for each, then overselling will happen.

Why Overselling: Overselling is a marketing strategy. We can use the same case in above as an example. When web hosting companies provide 20GB disk space for each customer, and only host 5 web site in one server, he will find that not all the customers have used up all 20GB space, there will be a lot of space there without being used. So, the service providers decide to take some risk, and sell more accounts in one server. What he bets on is that not all the customers will use up all the signed resource.

Is Overselling Bad: Overselling is very common in almost all the service industry. Let's take the telecom companies as an example. They have millions of customers, what if all the customers dial out at the same time? Can their infrastructure support so many customers? The answer is definitely NO. So, shall they upgrade their infrastruture to avoid it, the answer is NO as well since it won't happen in the real world. So, overselling is not really bad if you can monitor the service status closely, and make sure what you provide to your customer is still in line with the service level agreement, it should be ok. And overselling will bring more profits to the companies.

Overselling in Web Hosting Industry: I believe almost all the web hosting companies now are using overselling strategy in their business. They host thousands of web sites in one server, promise thousands of GB for each and only charge you less $10 per month. Some of companies can manage the overselling very well and are able to keep up with the serivce they have promised to their customers. But in most case, what we heard are:

Server becomes in-stable and more downtime happened on the web site:

Connection speed become slow
No one response for the support tickets, customer service turn out to be very bad.
How to Win by Using Overselling Strategy As a web hosting companies, in order to fall into the trouble brought by overselling, below are some methods which definitely should be referred to:
Closely monitor the bandwidth and disk space usage of the domains in each server, and figure out the best numbers of the accounts can be hosted in one server in overselling situation.
Extend the bandwidth of the datacenter monthly according to the growth of the customers. Renew the bandwidth contract monthly will help the web hosting companies balance the cost and the service in a good manner
Hire more people if too many cases coming in, this is necessary since when they oversell their product and get more customers in, they will need more people to maintain the customer service level. It would be very helpful if they can figure out one supporter can serve how many customers. In this case, they can plan the hiring according to the growth of their customers.
Summary

Overselling can help making more money without investing too much, but keeping up with the service level agreement is a key thing should not be forget in companies what to win in this marketing strategy.

GixxerPC I don't mean to be rude but aren't you a little hypocritical. I went to your website to check out your plans and if I would have to guess you are overselling also.

SO just because it's a new company doesn't mean that they aren't trying to get a foot in the door. Yes the amounts are ridiculous, as I have gone to a couple websites where they offered 'unlimited' space talked to their sales - and later found out that I can only host a certain amount of files but if I have one file that is 100gb that would be ok.

Anyways just because they don't have the same cushion(lots of servers movement around) as you when overselling doesn't mean their a bad host.

If you are indeed not overselling - which I would have a hard time believing - then I apologize.

GixxerPC I don't mean to be rude but aren't you a little hypocritical. I went to your website to check out your plans and if I would have to guess you are overselling also.

SO just because it's a new company doesn't mean that they aren't trying to get a foot in the door. Yes the amounts are ridiculous, as I have gone to a couple websites where they offered 'unlimited' space talked to their sales - and later found out that I can only host a certain amount of files but if I have one file that is 100gb that would be ok.

Anyways just because they don't have the same cushion(lots of servers movement around) as you when overselling doesn't mean their a bad host.

If you are indeed not overselling - which I would have a hard time believing - then I apologize.


Actually, you are a bit far from the truth.

Our plans are setup, so technically if we wished too, we could host 10 of the highest accounts on 1 of our servers. Does that make us oversellers? Nope.

Great post GixxerPC.

Name and shame the companies that kicked you. :D

Im not one to flame the little guys. I'll say this though, they post ad's in the shared hosting section.



My next stop is to get a group of 2-3 big boys, and take down hostgator or godaddy.

GixxerPC, nice to see you got this eye opener topic started.

My next stop is to get a group of 2-3 big boys, and take down hostgator or godaddy.

Don't forget to abide by their TOS! ;)

. . . My next stop is to get a group of 2-3 big boys, and take down hostgator or godaddy.
The big oversellers have a water tight TOS that protects them from their own unlimited offer. I'd bet you'd break that TOS with your use.

Name n' shame! Save people from these companies.

Great read though, and unfortunately all too true, it's a real shame. However, there is an argument to well managed overselling, because it allows the full server to be utilized, it can be more economical. In the extreme, however, it's ridiculous.

This is very good informational post, bad news is that not hardly one web hosting client may see it since it is in Running A Web Host Business. This should be a sticky. And please keep us informed on how you do with the other companies.

Good post, It's quite funny when companies like that can't support their claims of space and bandwidth.

heheheh as real and serious as this post was I found this post hilarious....

GixxerPC do you have a blog? You should start one

I've been thinking of doing something similar, like back up my personal computer... hmmm...

Hostgator might have a water tight TOS regarding certain things, however Im sure I can find a loophole, and continue to transfer rather large images repeatedly.

Heres how I look at it.

If they pass, they have another client. and id recommend them to everyone!

If they fail....well, thats just it. They fail.


Doggins, at this time I do not have a blog. Ive considered it in the past, but kinda bleh on it.


I might setup a review website deal, where thats basically what I do. I go from host to host, test if what it says is true.

If they pass, they get some free marketing.

If they fail, well, they will get some free marketing as well.

Hostgator might have a water tight TOS regarding certain things, however Im sure I can find a loophole, and continue to transfer rather large images repeatedly.
I think you'll find they're fairly well protected from themselves with their water tight TOS and AUP. But it will be an interesting experiment never the less. Also check out bluehost too, while you're at it. It will be interesting to see how far they can go.

I wouldnt mind bringing down GoDaddy. I despise that "company".

jojojo, go for HostGator, DreamHost and GoDaddy :D

Hostgator might have a water tight TOS regarding certain things, however Im sure I can find a loophole, and continue to transfer rather large images repeatedly.

Have you recently seen HOSTGATOR shared hosting plans.

They have UNLIMITED SPACE + BANDWIDTH now on all shared plans.

thats something which has been here for long long threads for to be at or not to be at.

GixxerPC seems they've challenged you now :D

I think they have Xeonfan.

Im sure there is a number behind the word of 'Unlimited'.

The real thing is. Do my servers have the bandwidth to compete? lol.

yes hostgator limits you for CPU usage and iNode Limits.
Also they charge you for data restore if your site is defaced anyhow.

Wow very nice.
Teach them to not oversell or properly oversell.

Overselling as a new host will do nothing but cause you headaches, especially from people like myself. Why? let myself explain a bit further.


With the ever so increasing competition from 'kiddie hosts' as I like to call them ("Owners" around the age of 15, pre 18), tend to post up an insanely oversold package for $1-2 a month.


I like to consider myself an informer to new businesses. I dont mind helping newbies to the industry on the ins and outs of running a business. Obviously, I am no expect, but I like to consider myself 'far ahead of others' with over 5 years of business owning experience.



But lets not get side tracked. Why you shouldn't oversell.

Hasn't your mom or dad ever taught you that lying is bad? Nothing is more disrespectful than to lie to someone.


Now to us old timers, do you remember those little dinosaur sponges that when you got them wet, they were advertised to grow to a massive size? After begging mom, or dad for that $5 to buy a pack, you eagerly rush them through the store to hurry their butts up so you can get home to play with it?

Only to put that water on your dinosaur, only for it to grow a mere 1-2 mm's?


Its basically the same with overselling. You get naive people to believe in what your selling, only for them to be given a hand full of lies.



In my journey to get people to stop with this act of lying, ive decided to conduct a journey.


Let me explain a bit,

<my site> uses approx 7tb of bandwidth, and has approx 1tb of total files in backups.

We have set out to find some of these hosts, ask them if they oversell, only to receive the ever so popular answer of "No". I then inform them I will set up a 1 month account with them. If they please me, I will then sign up for their biggest account, and prepay for a year! Naturally this gets people going!

After carefully reading the TOS and seeing that either A. they dont have one, or B. nothing says anything about backup hosting.


I set up an account, and setup our servers to use them as 'Backup hosting' as well as our own blend of backups.


Within the first 6 hours of me signing up, we put out approx 25Gig's of bandwidth from us to them. Hold on...Im getting an error in my email saying that our server cant communicate with theirs?

I view my 'webspace' and see that my accounts been suspended for 'excessive bandwidth'. Well what the hell, I am paying $2.25 for 1TB of bandwidth a month!

I visit their website, only to get the same error. Wow...a webhost's own site is suspended? He must of made his mom mad, and she shut off his business!

Luckily, I remembered to get his aim/msn name. I contact him asking what the deal is.

He then replies with "Sorry Sir, our server had a problem!" I said, "a problem on a new companies server?", he replied with "Yes, but we will transfer you to another server of ours".

After about 3 hours, my sites magically up again, as is his, and I have the same old IP. But they claim Im on a completely new server. I continue to play dumb.

He asks me some questions about what im uploading. I said "Files". He then says "They look like cPanel files", I said "Why are you looking at my files?". He replies back with "We like to ensure the safety of our servers to prevent viruses". Understood. But I didnt think looking at files could do that? I thought thats why cPanel included a virus scanner, plus there is always other programs you could use. Right?

I resubmit my backups, they continue the job. not 15min later. Server is down again.

Ask him what the deal is..again! Same old response.

After the course of 2 more hours. He eventually canceled my account, and refunded my money. Total time from signup to cancellation was 6 hours.


I did this to about 8 more 'companies'. All from this lovely website.

Each and every single one failed my test.


Moral of the story, quit overselling, or atleast add that you dont allow backup hosting, or someone like me will come and make you lose money.

Being a web host and then going to your competitors to do these types of activities seems a bit unethical if you ask me. But of course, thats just my opinion.

It doesn't seem so "unethical" to legitimately purchase a product or service and "test" it.

I am sure each and every host out there purchased their own service(s) to evaluate the transaction and service level. So, why not see what the competition is doing ?

All of the big players in the "unlimited" space have pretty tight TOS that say you can only upload files directly related to the operation of your website. Most of them specifically exclude backup files, video files over a certain size, etc...

So essentially, you would likely break their TOS by actually uploading your testing files.

Your test would certainly show their advertising is misleading, but it is somewhat pointless, I think. You're preaching to the choir around here. Unless you can get a congressman to take interest, or somehow "publicize" your findings... there will always be a huge market of sucker website owners who fall for the false advertising of unlimited hosting.

In other words.. your testing is interesting to read about, but really.. what's the point?

What benefits and dis-advantages would you say be for the use of overselling and not overselling?

Would many of you see that if you didn't oversell would you still allow your users to host proxy sites and/or file hosts? Unlike major hosting companies who don't allow any but oversell alot?

What are your thoughts?