I'd like some advice, our company owns a site called:

http://www.webhostdir.com

We registered the domain name in 1997, and have actively developed the business ever since. In September last year it came to our attention that a company had registered a very similar domain name to ours:

http://www.Web********.com

Since then the site has remained undeveloped. Until now! Today I was informed by one of our visitors that they had seen a similar site to ours at the other address. I visited the site and found that they have taken our header images, logo and certain aspects of our page design directly from within our site. Unbelievable! Can anyone suggest what action we should take?

I have contacted the host with which the site is registered, and I'm still waiting for a response. I have also contacted the site owner, and I'm still waiting for a response.

Any help/advice warmly welcome.

An email from an attorney is a great way to let them know you are serious.

Some people have big ones (not attorneys, but ...)

Did you visit their site and compare it to ours? I still cant believe how blatant they're being!

Well, that's definitely the same logo. It even says "webhostdir," not "web********." And they even left in the TM graphic, to show that it's, uh... somebody's trademark!

But there don't seem to be any hosts yet in their database, so presumably they're not in operation yet. While it's pretty sleazy to copy what they did, and to place someone else's logo on a site even while under development it may be that they don't plan to keep it that way.

If you're serious about your business, though, I'd certainly have an attorney mail a letter (real legal communication isn't done through email) to them warning them to remove the logo and pointing out that your copyright extends to certain page and design elements. I wouldn't get too worried yet, but you should move to protect your business.

Quick! - Take a screen shot of thier home page with your logo on it!!

Yes, Jay, you are correct. mail is the way to go. I am just so used to giving out my email and saying email that mail is starting to drift out of my head.

Hey James,

We have the same problem all the time. We normally try to contact the hosting provider because it is usually a violation of their TOS and we also contact the person who owns the site to let them know that they are in violation of copyright law.

This works sometimes, and not others. I have found that web hosts are not that cooperative, and most of time it takes a direct letter from our attorney to the person who owns the site.

One thing you can also do is send a e-mail / Mail / Fax to there host or backbone as well. Backbone like UUnet and Verio will trun there lines off if they don't remove it if you prove it is copy righted.

From their WHOIS alone :


Technical Contact:
Fasthosts, Domain Admin Team domains@fasthosts.co.uk
154 Southgate Street
Discovery Court
Gloucester, GL1 2EX
UK
+44 (01452) 541499

That alone suggests to me that they're hosted on FastHosts or a reseller of. Time to give them a little buzz :)

(can someone do an IP block check and confirm this please? I can't get to SamSpade at this point. Ta)

This should be every thing you need for Web********.com and to get them to stop useing your stuff.
Whois:
Registrant:
MPoweR IT Ltd
'Tranquillity' 29 Southwood Av
Southbourne Bournmouth
Dorset, BH6 3QB
UK

Domain Name: WEB********.COM

Administrative Contact:
Roberts, Michael MPoweRIT@aol.com
'Tranquillity' 29 Southwood Av
Southbourne Bournmouth
Dorset, BH6 3QB
UK
01202 382962

Technical Contact:
Fasthosts, Domain Admin Team domains@fasthosts.co.uk
154 Southgate Street
Discovery Court
Gloucester, GL1 2EX
UK
+44 (01452) 541499

Billing Contact:
Roberts, Michael mpowerit@aol.com
'Tranquillity' 29 Southwood Av
Southbourne Bournmouth
Dorset, BH6 3QB
UK
01202 382962


Record last updated on 20-Mar-2001.
Record expires on 24-May-2001.
Record Created on 24-May-2000.

Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.LIVEDNS.CO.UK 213.171.193.14
NS2.LIVEDNS.CO.UK 213.171.193.250

Trace Route:

traceroute to WEB********.COM (213.171.193.8), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 moe.Firewall.Opus1.COM (192.245.12.96) 5.859 ms 2 Opus-GW (207.182.35.49) 7.812 ms 3 bar2-serial4-0-0-7-0.Anaheim.cw.net (208.172.40.113) 24.413 ms 4 acr2-loopback.Anaheim.cw.net (208.172.34.62) 26.366 ms 5 acr1-loopback.NewYorknyr.cw.net (206.24.194.61) 100.580 ms 6 iar1-loopback.NewYorknyr.cw.net (206.24.194.23) 100.579 ms 7 bcr1-so-6-0-0.Amsterdam.cw.net (208.173.135.18) 179.676 ms 8 bcr1-so-6-0-0.Thamesside.cw.net (166.63.211.177) 180.652 ms 9 bcr1-so-0-2-0.London.cw.net (166.63.211.150) 188.464 ms10 bt-telecommunications.London.cw.net (166.63.163.226) 175.770 ms11 core3-gig2-0.ealing.ukcore.bt.net (194.72.9.153) 176.746 ms12 core3-pos10-0.reading.ukcore.bt.net (195.99.120.206) 177.723 ms13 core3-pos8-0.birmingham.ukcore.bt.net (195.99.120.225) 181.629 ms14 mspaccess1-fa0-0-0.birmingham.fixed.bt.net (62.6.196.7) 183.582 ms15 62.7.239.178 (62.7.239.178) 187.488 ms16 213.171.193.8 (213.171.193.8) 189.441 ms


There ip is 213.171.193.8 most likley a IPLess Domain.

RIPE.net Whois for 213.171.193.8

inetnum: 213.171.192.0 - 213.171.197.255
netname: FASTHOSTS-UK-NETWORK
descr: UK's largest web hosting company
descr: based in Gloucester, England
country: GB
admin-c: RC2965-RIPE
tech-c: MW8691-RIPE
status: ASSIGNED PA
changed: hostmaster@ripe.net 20000510
source: RIPE

route: 213.171.192.0/19
descr: FasthostInternet Ltd
origin: AS2856
mnt-by: BTNET-MNT
changed: paul.mccrystal@bt.net 20000522
source: RIPE

person: Rob Crack
address: Fasthosts Internet Limited
address: Suite 7, Discovery Court
address: 154 Southgate Street
address: Gloucester, GL1 2EX
phone: +44 1452 541251
fax-no: +44 1452 541633
e-mail: rob@fasthosts.co.uk
nic-hdl: RC2965-RIPE
changed: mark@fasthosts.co.uk 20000316
source: RIPE

person: Mark Wood
address: Fasthosts Internet Limited
address: Suite 7, Discovery Court
address: 154 Southgate Street
address: Gloucester, GL1 2EX
phone: +44 1452 541251
fax-no: +44 1452 541633
e-mail: mark@fasthosts.co.uk
nic-hdl: MW8691-RIPE
changed: mark@fasthosts.co.uk 20000316
source: RIPE


So it is 100% FastHost that are hosting this domain and site. I would send them a E-mail first. If you do not get any thing back send a Mail or FAX also.



P.S You are right BC it is fasthosts.co.uk. ;)

Thanks for all the help guys, I really appreciate it.

Just to bring you up to speed on the events so far. I've contacted fasthosts.co.uk. Unfortunately they do not have anyone who can deal with abuse issues over the phone, they must be addressed to them via email!

I first reported the problem to them 16 hours ago. I've had one confirmation (auto mailer) response, saying they will look into the matter. Since then I have contacted them twice more by phone and three times via email. Still nothing!

I don't think they fully appreciate the business I'm involved in. I've made my living for the past four years from the promotion and marketing hosting providers. Negative press can really damage a business no matter what its size. Just ask *****.

What's worse is we gave them an industry award this month! Nothing beats first hand experience ;-)

Some more news, we've been looking into the company responsible for the site.

http://www.webshopfronts.co.uk

Aside from the fact that they have completely ripped of the menu bars from our previous site release (1999/00)

We started looking into their client base and found a couple of the sites they've "designed".

Check out this site and then look at webhostdir.com. You might see some similarities.

I can see this issue escalating. I'll keep you all up to date on developments.

Heres all the correspondance we've had with fasthosts.co.uk. As you can see they're really bending over backwards to help us!


-----Original Message-----
From: James Cross [mailto:james.cross@inspiringtech.com]
Sent: 20 March 2001 19:01
To: abuse@fasthosts.co.uk
Cc: Lindsey Rodgers; Hugh Choudhury; Kevin Smith; Tommy Lai
Subject: COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT


Our company has been informed of a serious copyright infringement by one of
your clients. A Mr Michael Roberts, currently has a site
http://www.Web********.com hosted with you. Mr Roberts has blatantly registered a
domain extension similar to our own http://www.WebHostDir.com with the intention of
profiteering from our brand, which has been established since 1997.

On the 29th of September we held a meeting with your client to establish his
intentions for the development of his site. We made our legal stance very
clear and Mr Roberts provided us with a signed letter stating that he had no
intention of developing the site for commercial purposes.

However it has now come to our attention that Mr Roberts has placed our
companies own header images, logo and page content into his own site. This
action is being regarded extremely seriously by our Board of Directors. Our
technical team have taken screen shots to substantiate our claims, and will
be forwarding it to our legal advisors by close of play 21st March 2001, if
no action has been taken by either yourselves or MR Roberts.

We recognise that as a host it is extremely difficult to ascertain the full
intentions of your clients hosting requirements, and as such do not hold you
directly responsible to date for Mr Roberts actions.

Please have one of your management team contact me urgently so that this
matter does not escalate any further.



-----Original Message-----
From: Erin-Lee Mills [mailto:abuse@fasthosts.co.uk]
Sent: 21 March 2001 09:31
To: james.cross@inspiringtech.com
Subject: RE: COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT


Dear Mr Cross,

Thank you for your email regarding http://www.web********.com.

With reference to the content of your email, I can confirm that the
appropriate action will been taken as soon as possible.

In the meantime if you have any other query's please don't hesitate to
contact us.

Yours sincerely

Miss Erin Mills
Abuse Investigation Team
Fasthosts Internet Ltd
abuse@fasthosts.co.uk



-----Original Message-----
From: James Cross [mailto:james.cross@inspiringtech.com]
Sent: 21 March 2001 09:51
To: Erin-Lee Mills
Cc: Hugh Choudhury; Kevin Smith; Tommy Lai; Lindsey Rodgers
Subject: RE: COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT


Miss Mills,

Can you please confirm that the offending site will be deactivated
immediately. As stated in my original message I would like one of your
management team to contact us immediately so that this matter may be
resolved. Since first reporting the infringement, the site has remained
operational for 15 hours.

James Cross
Managing Director


-----Original Message-----
From: Erin-Lee Mills [mailto:abuse@fasthosts.co.uk]
Sent: 21 March 2001 12:10
To: james.cross@inspiringtech.com
Subject: RE: COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT


Dear Mr Cross,

Thank you for your email.

I appreciate the urgency of this matter and assure you that reasonable steps
are being taken to resolve this situation as quickly as possible.

Thank you for your patience in this matter.

Yours sincerely,

Miss Erin Mills
Abuse Investigation Team
Fasthosts Internet Ltd
abuse@fasthosts.co.uk



Miss Mills

We would like an explanation as to why you have not yet:

1. Contacted us by phone, as requested.
2. Deactivated the offending web site.

This matter does not require deep investigation. A 5 min visit to both sites will reveal the obvious nature of their offence.

I believe your technical directors direct line is: +44 1452 538 484 Would the process be speeded up if I were to contact him directly?

Since us first reporting this matter we have made further discoveries relating to your offending client. The site http://www.carsharecentral.com designed by the same company and again hosted on your servers, is again blatantly displaying design features taken from within our site http://www.webhostdir.com.

I should inform you that we are the industry leader in evaluation and independent assessment of hosting providers. So far your company, a current award winner within our site, is failing to perform its role as a leading UK provider.

James Cross
Managing Director

why dunt you just hire a lawyer?

We felt that the time it would take for a lawyer to react was too long. If they have not deactivated the offending site by the end of the day, we will refer the matter over to our lawyers.

I was hoping it wouldnt have to go that far.

James,

you may wish to direct Miss Erin's attention to this thread as well. It's quite amazing at times how fast some people react once they're informed a 2000 member forum is watching the proceedings with avid interest.

Greg Moore

After a long day and several threatening emails I finally got someone from fasthosts.co.uk to contact us.

Very "nice" lady, explained to me how my emails had been interfering with their work and would I stop sending them :-) Good start to a conversation......


Anyway to cut a long story short they have investigated our complaint (that must have taken them a while) and decided that our allegations are well founded. As such they have made the decision to bring down the offending web site. They're also likely to terminate the offending companies account with them.

As yet the site is still up and running but they have assured us that this will not be the case by the end of the day.

If any of the hosts reading this thread are approached by a company for a home for the following sites:

webshopfronts.co.uk
carsharecentral.com
TomahawkProducts.com
GEPWindTurbine.com
KingstonMouldings.co.uk
MillennialQuest.co.uk
RCMicroArmor.com

Please tell (the owner) Mr Michael Roberts where to go!

Thanks again for all the feedback, it was really appreciated, I'll let you know if anything changes.

I would not deal with Fast Hosts. Not ever. I know that is not what this thread is about, but I just wanted to point out that they really have no time for any potential customers, and even less time or patience for current customers.

Below is a conversation I had via e-mail with one of their sales team.


----- Original Message -----
From: Rich Amies
To: sales@fasthosts.co.uk
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: Reseller Package


Hi,

A small question - do you have a "Guaranteed uptime" for your servers? Or a Service Level Agreement of any type?

Thanks,

Rich

----- Original Message -----
From: Tiffany Mead
To: Rich Amies
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: Reseller Package


Rich

Over the last 4 months we have had a uptime of 99.99%. We are now using the 2000 Dual Pentium 4 servers which have hot swapable skusy harddrive with 1GB of memory.

If you have any further enquiries please do not hesitate to contact me on 01452 541260

Yours sincerely,

Tiffany Mead
Technical Sales Advisor
Fasthosts Internet Ltd


http://fasthosts.co.uk

----- Original Message -----
From: Rich Amies
To: Tiffany Mead
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: Reseller Package


Thanks for the reply.

'swapable' is generally spelt as 'Swappable'
'skusy' is generally spelt as 'SCSI'

The service from your company loosk rather unprofessional, judging by the amount of time it took for this reply(30 hours) and the spelling as noted above. Without any technical knowledge, I would assume you are saying the hot swapable skusy harddrives are 1GB in size?

Obviously I know this is not the case, but it just reflects poorly on your company. And the cost of using SQL on a domain is £25/month? Also, I had a domain hosted with a reseller of yours and experienced nothing like 99.99% uptime. The service went downhill after the move to Win2k servers was completed, I couldn't send email via the SMTP server, and the CGI timeout setting was set far too low. Which meant the majority of my site was unfunctional, despite the code being used on hundreds of thousands of other websites accross the globe without any problems.

I think I'm better off using a dedicated server from the sound of things. You are welcome to try and change my mind, if you have the faith and trust in your own company's standards and levels of service.

Regards,

Rich



I really do think they need to train their staff a little further, in both technical matters and sales techniques :).

UKReg.com is also a part of their company, and I have had nothing but problems with them either. I soon discovered the only way to get a problem resolved was to write a perl script that would send out the email once per minute until they corrected the problem.

Just sharing my views on the company. I know this probably wasn't the thread, I just wantedto point out the type of company you were unfortunately dealing with. I sincerely hope they resolve your problem swiftly and painlessly, unfortunately I doubt this will be the case.

Rich

[Edited by Inspa.net on 03-21-2001 at 01:53 PM]

From start to finish I found them totally unhelpfull. They even complained that my emailing them had been disrupting their business!

They should stop bragging about their new £10Million data center and spend some money on customer support.

I know this only taking the thread farther off course, but I need to put my two cents in on Fasthosts.

After 6 years of hosting with the same company they decided to close up shop, and I was stuck looking for a new one, with over 20 domains to move. I signed up with shanje.com (NEVER use them!) and had nothing but problems and no support available.

After several months of investigating nearly every sizeable host on the planet, and thankfully discovering this forum befor I almost signed on with experthosting, I decided to try fasthosts, in part based on some decent feedback I read in these forums.

I will say that starting up the account was a bit rocky, with tons of problems related to their virtual IP mapping, control panels and mail servers. BUT, they did indeed have knowlegable tech support folks (yes several, I spoke with 6 different people over 3 days) available 24/7, their tech support emails were always answered within 24 hours or less, and they went out of their way to clear up my troubles, even calling me back once to ask for more info.

Once the tech issues were ironed out (which did take 3 days), the service has been fantastic, and although there a few services I'd like to see them add (like custom MIME types), I'm finding that Fasthosts is more stable and reliable than most, and my sites load faster than they did when I was hosting in the U.S.... VERY fast in fact.

If anyone is thinking of trying them, I would reccomend them. I would also add the caveat that you should be prepared for a few days of hassles, as they seem to have trouble getting their "automated" systems to get the initial account configurations going properly. But if you can handle the initial headaches, you should find that once properly configured, their service really does work very well.

I'm glad you had a pleasant experience with them :).

I've had no end of problems with them - I registered a domain through ukreg.com and all went well. Until they cocked it up and wouldn't accept my password when I was trying to configure forwarding/email. But as my password was accepted on the rest of the configuartion section, they couldn't see a problem :).

When I hosted a site with them, I literally had no end of problems. Very slow FTP access, refusal to allow me SMTP relaying on my mail server(UBB needs this), various DNS screwups by them resulting in complete downtime for my site for 72 hours. Then they switched fron NT servers to Win2k servers, and I found I couldn't run the UBB because I kept receiving CGI timeout errors.

At which point I cancelled my account. All this was in the space of 5 weeks, I'm now hosted through a WebFusion reseller and have no gripes at all with them. The FastHosts reseller package is on paper a lot better than WebFusion, but I think I'd rather clean up dog crap for a living than offer services on behalf of FastHosts. I couldn't(and wouldn't) resell any of their accounts to my customers, as I have no faith in them at all. technical support were poor, sales were no better.

Very poor performance in my case. I dare say 99% of their customers love them, and have had no problems with them. But I couldn't bite my tongue and use them ever again.

Rich
:)

With between 12,000 - 15,000 hosting companies out there, I wouldnt chance it.

BTW: I'm still waiting for them to call me back and confirm the action they have taken. If that's an indication of their customer support they can keep it!

Originally posted by JamesCrossfasthosts.co.uk.

What's worse is we gave them an industry award this month! Nothing beats first hand experience ;-) Recognizing a mistake may have been made, I'm curious as to what Catagory, they could have earned an award in.

They came 3rd in our reseller category :-(

http://www.webhostdir.com/webhostawards/reseller.asp

Like I said earlier, no matter how unbiased our testing is (theyre not an advertiser) nothing beats first hand experience!

Get legal counsel as soon as you are aware of the issue, because if this goes to court, it makes a big difference if you did something about it right away or let it slide.

Get your lawyer to send off a memo to the offending company ASAP.