Any 2checkout members out there should watch out they don't have any charge backs. Apparently they keep their fees, deduct the full transaction amount from your 2CO account, and then charge the chargeback fee on top.

http://support.2checkout.com/forums//thread.php?threadid=967&boardid=17


Not commenting on this, just making you aware.

Hhmmm..


They could be doing this as chargebacks damage a merchants "look"..


You need to take more care in your orders :)

Well, yes. As was stated in the other thread, they get charged fees, they pass that fee onto you (marked up a couple of points). I don't see why they'd return that due to a chargeback. But anyway, I suppose the point of the thread is just to make people aware of the policy, not debate it.

I think most payment processors do this. By their reckoning they 'processed' the transaction, but it was charged back incurring the chargeback fee. ergo:

processing fee + amount charged + chargeback fee.

Call it the cost of doing business online. It's not a pleasant e-mail to get but as long as your good customers outweigh the bad it shouldn't present much of an issue.

Greg Moore

lol@kristin's pr skills again...

I bet she handles thousands of requests for support a year... I do not envy her... but I'm sure she does the best she can.

Any type of edited post or thread tends to lose the context of the message conveyed. I will admit to a tendency to express impatience when I read through a thread and see an issue having been explained numerous times before I'm requested to get involved.

To summarize: "Per transaction" fees are just that - a fee charged for each transaction. Sales are transactions. Returns are transactions. Chargebacks are transactions.

The fees we pay to our merchant account provider are on a per transaction basis. The fees we charge to our merchant vendors follow the same arrangement.

We absorb quite a few fees that merchants never, ever see. In many instances chargeback fees are not passed along to the merchant involved. Indeed, in many instances if you can provide additional information regarding proof of the good or service provided we'll reverse the fees involved. This isn't a given, however. Additional criteria can and will apply before we'll agree to absorb a chargeback fee on your behalf.

Some of the other criteria may include:

Did the merchant request to be opted out of the survey function?
Is 2CO prominently displayed as the 3rd party cc processor on the website involved?
What is the merchant's refund history? Who issued the refunds -- 2CO or the merchant? How many inquiries regarding non-recognized charges are on record? Does the merchant have a negative customer service history? Have their been chargeback or dispute issues in the past?

There are a lot of factors. Some weigh in more heavily than others but we are always more than willing to assist in the dispute of any chargeback. Rest assured if the fee is reversed from our utilization we'll certainly credit the fee back to your account as well.

^^^^^^ Kristin @ 2checkout.com ^^^^^^^^


forgot to change the login on this computer.

Sorry.

Originally posted by Mr Green
I will admit to a tendency to express impatience when I read through a thread and see an issue having been explained numerous times before I'm requested to get involved.

Well if you're going to play at tech support that's the hat you have to wear - we all do it everyday :)

But I agree with your post. We don't use 2CheckOut, but do accept that transactions incur a fee, regardless of whether they're for our good, or not. As a processor whenever something is passed through the system we understand that a 'transaction' has occured.

We'll kick up a stink if our processor has screwed something up (which all of them do at some stage), but if it's a genuine cost, either through normal processing, or due to someone charging back, the process involves charges.

As stated, we don't use 2CheckOut, but I find the 'criteria' a little odd. While I think it's a nice idea to consider the customer history when looking at fees, maybe it would be better practice to give everyone the same set of fees regardless. It would set a uniform approach so no-one gets suprised when something does occur.

A leads to B
and B leads to C
no questions asked.

Greg Moore

What an interesting topic. But I am a little confused.

In case of a chargeback you pay 2checkout fees TWICE?

Example:
100$ sale
Customer asks for chargeback because he forgot your order

Result: Costs you a total of 40.90 in fees.
(29$ + 2checkout fee + 2checkout chargeback transaction fee)

Did I understand this correctly?

I left them for this very reason for a site I no longer run. Not to mention a charge back that never existed in our database was on their site and they claimed there could not be a mistake in their system. Hog wash.. Our system would not even make the charge unless there were accounts for the person and projects created, etc. etc. Our system was more likely correct, then theirs. They pretty much cleaned house on our account with a huge charge that was not ours, never ever go back to them. They would not even consider the fact their system could make a mistake. To top it off , they have some very rude support people, that was enough for me. Never again!!

Originally posted by DotComEr
What an interesting topic. But I am a little confused.

In case of a chargeback you pay 2checkout fees TWICE?

Example:
100$ sale
Customer asks for chargeback because he forgot your order

Result: Costs you a total of 40.90 in fees.
(29$ + 2checkout fee + 2checkout chargeback transaction fee)

Did I understand this correctly?

No.
If I'm not mistaken here, the complaint is that the original processing fees were not deducted from the refund.

ie. I process a $100.00 order and 2checkout only pays me $94.05, so if there is a chargeback, they should only take $94.05 + whatever chargeback fee the CC imposes.

That is not how chargebacks are processed. We pay a transaction fee for the order, and a transaction fee for the refund.

That is why you are charged the full refund.

Originally posted by Brad
I left them for this very reason for a site I no longer run. Not to mention a charge back that never existed in our database was on their site and they claimed there could not be a mistake in their system. Hog wash.. Our system would not even make the charge unless there were accounts for the person and projects created, etc. etc. Our system was more likely correct, then theirs. They pretty much cleaned house on our account with a huge charge that was not ours, never ever go back to them. They would not even consider the fact their system could make a mistake. To top it off , they have some very rude support people, that was enough for me. Never again!!

That is simply not the case, and we both know it Brad.

The sale did, indeed, show up in the admin panel. The charge was made to a credit card. The customer did request a refund.

You were credited with the sale when it happened, and had it deducted when the chargeback was imposed.

I never said it wasn't in your system, it was. I'm not debating the fact it was there, it was and shouldn't have been. It was not ours and was not ever in our system!! I have more proof it never came from our system then you do that it did.

In order for a charge to happen on our site, they would have to have an account with us and a deposit request with us, then the deposit would be charged and credited to their account, there was NOT ONE of these at all in our database.

When I sent repeated emails to your support that this charge did not come from our system and was somehow crossed on your system. I was accused of making allegations that their was some kind of 2checkout conspiracy against me, hahahah. They said, since our company is huge and yours was so tiny, why would they bother and I should learn a lesson from all of this. I don't know where any of that came from, it blew me away, your support people must take some good stuff.

All I tried to convince them of, was a mistake was made on their part, it did not originate from our system. There was just not any records of any transactions from our site, it's just not possible. That did not ever seem to be a possibility with your support personnel, I guess your system is perfect, NOT..

Originally posted by TomD


No.


What No?

You said No and confirmed what I wrote.
Is my example correct?

We don't charge you the $29.00. That isn't a 2checkout.com fee, the credit card company charges it.

Soooooo... when you said "pay 2checkout.com fees twice" I drew the conclusion you were referring to the 5.5% + $0.45 transaction fees.

Originally posted by Brad
IAll I tried to convince them of, was a mistake was made on their part, it did not originate from our system. There was just not any records of any transactions from our site, it's just not possible. That did not ever seem to be a possibility with your support personnel, I guess your system is perfect, NOT..

I'm trying hard not to laugh at this comment. It is "impossible" for it to originate from your system. But it wasn't "impossible" to originate from ours, and be incorrect.

Leads one to wonder...if your system is so infallible, how come you didn't notice the fact the account balance didn't agree with your order balance and have it investigated?

Surely it wasn't a case of you just treating this "impossible transaction" as found money, was it?

TomD I gave a precise example.
In other words...
100$ sale.
Chargeback.
How much will be the TOTAL cost to the seller with 2checkout?
How much will be the financial damage of a chargaback on a 100$ sale?
Inclusive of all transaction fees, chargback fees etc.

Originally posted by TomD

I'm trying hard not to laugh at this comment. It is "impossible" for it to originate from your system. But it wasn't "impossible" to originate from ours, and be incorrect.

Don't belittle me with your nonsense Tom. As anyone can see this is the same attitude they will get from the staff at 2checkout, you people have no expertise what so ever in dealing with customers, It's like talking to a brick wall.

If you deal with 2checkout, you can expect this kind of treatment people, you get nowhere with these bozos. I have explained this till I'm blue in the face and just sick of their attitude and disregard for their customers and the truth.

Do you see anything helpful in your comments? Besides, antagonisms and ill regard for the truth, you are speaking like a child and making up thoughts like some kid being accused of stealing cookies. This seems to be the 2checkout mentality; it comes from your support people and now you, total uselessness and a waste of time.



Leads one to wonder...if your system is so infallible, how come you didn't notice the fact the account balance didn't agree with your order balance and have it investigated?


There you go again, wandering in your thoughts, backed against the wall and throwing stones..

Who said, I didn't notice your error? This has been the whole conversation of which you seem to have ignored. I did notice your imbalance, I sent multiple emails, which nothing was resolved with and your staff just ignored my comments. The only way to see the 2checkout balance is to login in and look, when I did, the transactions were wrong. There was a deposit and a back charge all there on your system that was not in our system, there was no indifference on our system, no red flags because the transaction never existed! The balance on your system was wrong!

Now I’m sick of your belittling attitude and useless comments, hopefully everyone here can see the kind of people you have to deal with over there when a problem arises. You get nowhere with these jokers.

My god, as you say, “Leads one to wonder”, you people go to such great lengths to keep your back charge monies, it makes us wonder too huh?



Originally posted by TomD


I'm trying hard not to laugh at this comment. It is "impossible" for it to originate from your system. But it wasn't "impossible" to originate from ours, and be incorrect.

Leads one to wonder...if your system is so infallible, how come you didn't notice the fact the account balance didn't agree with your order balance and have it investigated?

Surely it wasn't a case of you just treating this "impossible transaction" as found money, was it?

Originally posted by DotComEr
What an interesting topic. But I am a little confused.

In case of a chargeback you pay 2checkout fees TWICE?

Example:
100$ sale
Customer asks for chargeback because he forgot your order

Result: Costs you a total of 40.90 in fees.
(29$ + 2checkout fee + 2checkout chargeback transaction fee)

Did I understand this correctly?

I think you did. The original transaction had the 5.5% + 35 (or whatever) cents deducted. the client forgot she ordered it and put the chargeback through. 2co then charged the chargeback fee + kept the 5.5%

so the original vendor would have lost $100 + $29 + 5.5% and 35 cents.

It seems all the questions were very reasonably addressed by 2co, but for some reason the thread has now been removed. maybe because it appeared on here.

Originally posted by Brad

In order for a charge to happen on our site, they would have to have an account with us and a deposit request with us, then the deposit would be charged and credited to their account, there was NOT ONE of these at all in our database.


Maybe someone made a typo on their 2CO hidden fields and accidentally typed your account number instead of theirs.

I would imagine that would be very easily done?

Originally posted by DotComEr
TomD I gave a precise example.
In other words...
100$ sale.
Chargeback.
How much will be the TOTAL cost to the seller with 2checkout?
How much will be the financial damage of a chargaback on a 100$ sale?
Inclusive of all transaction fees, chargback fees etc.

The original sale was $224.95. 2CO took the few cents + 5.5%, which came to $12.82, leaving $212.12.

The chargeback came in and the account was debited $224.95 + $29 = $253.94 (don't know where that penny went).

So they kept the 5.5%, but did not charge it twice.

It seems all the questions were very reasonably addressed by 2co, but for some reason the thread has now been removed. maybe because it appeared on here.


I really think that 2CO removed the thread because it was bad propaganda for them

Originally posted by horoscopes2000


The original sale was $224.95. 2CO took the few cents + 5.5%, which came to $12.82, leaving $212.12.

The chargeback came in and the account was debited $224.95 + $29 = $253.94 (don't know where that penny went).

So they kept the 5.5%, but did not charge it twice.

That's what I tried to explain in my convoluted way, horoscopes.

We did not charge the 5.5% + $0.45 on the refund to the credit card, even though we pay transaction % and transaction fees on refunds.

Tom, I think you need to have that thread reinstated. Whilst it deals with a potentially hot potato, I think 2CO dealt with it very well, and I for one ended up with far more understanding of why 2CO kept the charges.

Once Keith (?) got involved the thread turned from a sarcastic note to a factual one.