This thread was started off a different thread in which someone was thinking of putting a server in a Florida data center.

Why Co-locate in Florida? I mean Hurricanes make hell of a mess of everything. I can remember back when a couple nailed Florida and communications going in to Florida wasn't even connecting because everyone was calling family and friends there. People were asked to not call the state because of the very high demand it placed on the lines. Wouldn't Internet communications be out for more then a few days. I mean how long did it take to restore everything from the last big storms?

Maybe it's me but I just don't understand why people would put data centers in places that are prone to major events that happen on a regular basis, We all know Florida is hit by more then 1 hurricane every year some nice and some down right awful.

I mean look at what happened with VDI or their uplink, some hardware broke and people went into a panic because the data center was down for what 9 hours. Sure lets blame the hardware for the problem but yet an act of God that takes you offline for days is acceptable because someone didn't take the time to reasonably think out the risk involved?

Course we can look at Cali, If it's not earth quakes it's blackouts. Now I don't mean to cause an uproar as I know this does everytime I post something like this but I would like to hear others views on this topic.

BTW: lets be reasonable about it and not start saying what if MIR crashes into the data center. :rolleyes:

Isn't it kind of extreme to say an entire state is going to be impacted by this kind of "Act of God"?

Not all areas of Florida get hit by hurricanes.. just like not all areas of California get really bad earthquakes.
I've lived in California all my life (San Diego) and not once have I suffered a major earthquake. A little tremble now and then.. but not often (not in the last 5 or so years at least.. and if there was, it was so tiny no one would know unless they were a geologist). As for the blackouts, I experienced that yesterday but it did not last long (and frankly I can't remember when there was a last power outage in my area.. 10 years ago?). I am pretty sure the data centers out there are going to have enough backup to support an hour or so (which is what I experienced) worth of power outage.

Well, that is my view.. what does everyone else think ? :)


P.S.
Check this place out if you are really paranoid about how often natural disasters happen - http://www.usgs.gov/


[Edited by Elena on 03-20-2001 at 05:34 AM]

Elena is right on the money. There is nothing inherently wrong with locating a data center in Florida, California, or in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, as long as you take proper precautions.

Most "true" Data Centers are designed to easily withstand natural disasters such as hurricanes and earthquakes, and should have enough power to keep them going for 3-4 days in the event of an outage.

Also, most data centers are not going to be using the same lines for connectivity that people are using to check on Grandma, and they will also have connections into different COs/POPs to provide multiple data paths. As a last ditch bandwidth backup many DCs even have a satellite uplink.

I've been told that this is actually one of the safer areas to be in, earthquake wise. Why? We are more prepared than most areas in terms of disaster relief, emergency services, retrofitting, etc. We also have small ones all the time so there is less of a chance (in theory), that a large destructive one will happen.

Areas that are not prepared, and do not get them often will (in theory), suffer greater damage and experience a large quake.

Now I realize that we get earthquakes here more than other places, but keep in mind the strongest earthquake in the U.S. happened in... Missouri.

If you're really concerned abotu such things then earthquake is just one factor. Flood, storm, blizzard, civil unrest etc. are all factors.

Problem is all the good NOC's are located at or near some potential problem area.

Have a backup plan!

You must also consider where in a particualr city the NOC is located. You want to make sure it is on/near major business district and/or hospitals. If there is ever a major problem, these areas are given priority so that things can get back up and running in a jiffy.

Originally posted by Jaiem
Problem is all the good NOC's are located at or near some potential problem area.

Well, I'd like to point something out here, if I could. I don't think you will find *anywhere* in the U.S. (and probably in the world) where you could locate a datacenter absolutely 100% risk-free. There is going to be the potential for disasters anywhere you go.

Name a location, any location, and chances are there is a natural disaster waiting to happen there.

Jason

Originally posted by Jason Ellis

Name a location, any location, and chances are there is a natural disaster waiting to happen there.


Yes, I agree. Being in Arizona, the one good thing is that natural disasters (hurricane, earthquake, snow, ice, tornados, etc.) are extremely minimized. But, not totally impossible.

Well how 'bout the safest NOC out there, http://www.thebunker.net/ It's the Fort Knox of NOCs.

Well, in case of a major disaster most likely the connection to the main backbone will probably be affected. The satelite used can be destroyed also (I may be wrong, but don't think the signal can penetrate the thick wall that they have if the satelite hosted inside). maybe they do have some other way to send the packets out....

Originally posted by WeinBar
[BBeing in Arizona, the one good thing is that natural disasters (hurricane, earthquake, snow, ice, tornados, etc.) are extremely minimized. But, not totally impossible. [/B]

Well, I honestly don't know much about Arizona - in fact I've only been there once and that was only for 2 hours during a layover in Phoenix (never again will I fly AmericaWest - four flights on that trip, every one of them delayed more than an hour!)

So, I can't really say much about natural disasters, but from my 2 hours of experience with the state I can say one thing about non-natural disasters that could affect a datacenter located there - your servers are toast if your air conditioner dies. :D

Jason

Only in the summer. But then again, it doesn't matter where you are if the air conditioner dies in a NOC. Redundancy is the key. Especially here in AZ.

In the mist of all this, here is somthing everybody furgot, one of the most successfull companies in this business, Dialtone .. where do you think they are Located ? FL !!

Originally posted by Chicken
I've been told that this is actually one of the safer areas to be in, earthquake wise. Why? We are more prepared than most areas in terms of disaster relief, emergency services, retrofitting, etc. We also have small ones all the time so there is less of a chance (in theory), that a large destructive one will happen.

Areas that are not prepared, and do not get them often will (in theory), suffer greater damage and experience a large quake.

Now I realize that we get earthquakes here more than other places, but keep in mind the strongest earthquake in the U.S. happened in... Missouri.

chicken, have you checked out www.alchemyfx.com ?
their NOC is in downtown l.a and from what i heard they are a solid noc.

the one close to where i live (about 5-6 miles) is at www.dynamic.com, i'll go there and ask them if they can offer colo pricing around 100-150, will email you when i can get them to offer us a good deal on colo :)

About TheBunker NOC. I looked at the pictures, especially the doors and wondered something. What good is a blast proof door when you have a normal door right next it like shown in the pic?

Originally posted by Webdude
About TheBunker NOC. I looked at the pictures, especially the doors and wondered something. What good is a blast proof door when you have a normal door right next it like shown in the pic?

are you talking about this pic ?
www.thebunker.net/pic1.htm (http://www.thebunker.net/pic1.htm)

:emlaugh:

Yeah

Originally posted by Chicken
...
Now I realize that we get earthquakes here more than other places, but keep in mind the strongest earthquake in the U.S. happened in... Missouri.
Actually, the top eight strongest earthquakes in US history have occured in Alaska (although only two of those have occured since Alaska has actually been a state). Don't mean to be picky, just don't want to slight our friends up north. :)

BTW, here's where I got the info: http://wwwneic.cr.usgs.gov/neis/eqlists/10maps_usa.html

You guys might not know this but a MAE is being built in Miami, Florida. The MAE-South will be the second most connected NAP/MAE point in the world (next to the MAE-East). Backbone providers (or contractors) are running their fiber along the railroads even as I write.

Remember, internet communications are (in most cases) seperate then voice communications. They are also newer and are run with dark fiber now. Power is easy to generate during power outages. For instance Verio is hosted in an old IBM building in Boca Raton, FL. The building is rated for 220mph winds. And believe those walls are thick. They also have 7GigaWatt generators in a similiarly housed building. Several other major hosts are locating in these buildings.

I not touting Verio, believe me I can't stand their network...but they are the biggest host out there and they trust South Florida. Not to mention Dialtone in Fort Lauderdale, FL (as someone else stated). The company I now work for, CosmoTek.net, colocates in a datacenter in Deerfield Beach, FL. The building is rated for 160mph winds and also backed up with generators.

I have lived in South Florida for 6 years now. We only experienced 1 hurricane coming close in that time. It turned out to give us only 30-50mph winds, which is nothing more than a stiff breeze. Yes Florida can get hit by a big huricane but even through Huricane Andrew good NOCs continued to operate without problems. Even the wireless company, GoFuzion, ran without a single packet lost during Andrew.

Originally posted by Webdude
About TheBunker NOC. I looked at the pictures, especially the doors and wondered something. What good is a blast proof door when you have a normal door right next it like shown in the pic?

Yes but you have to read the sign above the door - It says "This entrance employees only. Terrorists please use main entrance".

Originally posted by elijah
chicken, have you checked out www.alchemyfx.com ?
their NOC is in downtown l.a and from what i heard they are a solid noc.

the one close to where i live (about 5-6 miles) is at www.dynamic.com, i'll go there and ask them if they can offer colo pricing around 100-150, will email you when i can get them to offer us a good deal on colo :)

I haven't checked out either of those places. When I was looking, I asked one and the prices were not favorable. $300/mo for a 1U w/o bandwidth, and an extra $300/mo for them to monitor it. They had a grand total of 10, maybe 15 servers there, so I figured the price was a bit steep.

Chris- good eye! I was excluding Alaska since it doesn't seem to be the hot colo location (heh heh)...

Seattle, WA has a great colo location, the Westin Building, which has a NAP and a number of NOCs.

Thanx Guys and Gals, This was the kind of information I was looking for. :)