What are the major ways most web host directories drive traffic to their sites?

If the question is how do web hosting directories get their traffic - I think it is an interesting question.

Our traffic comes mostly from web hosting related searches on Google & Yahoo. Then misc levels of traffic from links on other sites & various message boards and other search engines like Altavista. A small amount comes from advertising but that is not so much.

Correct Question - Thanks for your input.

Yes, paid advertising doesnt really get very far unless you advertise everywhere and that can get pretty costly. But like Nova said, search engine traffic is a plus, not to mention WORD OF MOUTH! I don't know about other hosting firms here, but word of mouth has played a big part in our recruitment of new clients. :-) It's as my fast-food manager once said. You please one customer and they tell 10 people on how good your food was and those 10 people tell another 10 and another 10. But if you have a bad customer, it works the same way. That one tells 10 the bad news and those 10 tell another 10.. and so on.

Keep customers happy and they'll eventually make YOU happy :-)

Advertising will build your brand [for what that's worth] but it's hard to get an exact ROI on your ad dollar. It's usually considered an investment and not something that you should expect an immediate ROI from. [IMO] :D

Word of mouth rules!! :D:agree:

The smart host has carved up a niche somewhere based around some excellent keywords. They then secure top positions in the SEs with their highly targeted keywords for their niche market that they're servicing. Finding the right keywords with limited competition and sufficient demand is tricky though. So basically, you are the honey and the bees will find you. :)

This is why the host has to be "smart". Most won't find this place though. :D

Talking from experience (I own host approval) I advertise with Fineclicks, DKAds and Fastclicks to name a few. These sites are expensive to use but are all very valuable to for bringing in targeted webmasters.

We also find it VERY(since it boosts google pageranks as well) beneficial to get webmaster related sites linking to us. We usually offer them a place in our web resources page in exchange for a link on their site.

Finally allot of our traffic comes from Google. This is in my mind "free traffic" and the types of visitors are generally beginner webmasters. We try and make our site as search engine friendly as possible.

I would say our percentage of visitors come in as following:

- 50% Paid advertising
- 35% Google
- 15% Partner links

Hope that helps

I do less of advertising. Most of the clients we get through is from Google, Lycos and Yahoo. One thing everybody has left to mention that mouth publicity is the best. It is afterall the kind of service you offer, diverts the traffic towards you.

Floppy, I think word of mouth is good if you are a web host. But web hosting directories really need lots of flowing traffic, they dont need recurring visitors or faithful vistors.

What you said is true, but we also get a lot of buyers from viral marketing and recommendations from websites and magazines.

I don't know about other hosting firms here, but word of mouth has played a big part in our recruitment of new clients
[...]
The smart host has carved up a niche somewhere based around some excellent keywords.
[...]
Most of the clients we get through is from Google, Lycos and Yahoo.Some of you guys apparently haven't noticed that the topic is "web hosting directories, not web hosting firms.

While some general principles are the same in bringing traffic to any kind of site, I think that Worthen is more interested in issues specific to directory sites, and the experiences of operators of those sites.

Of course, that doesn't explain why this thread is in the "Running a Web Hosting Biz" forum... :)

The principals are very similar to hosting sites. Find hosting buyers, get them to the directory. The quality control is the same too. Hosts measure the quality of traffic coming through to their site. A decent directory will do the same.

Most of the traffic comes from online sources.

As previously mentioned by NovaW, a lot of it comes from search engines.

Some directories place highly targeted links and ads on sites that are web management related. Sites such as http://www.hitboxcentral.com/ .

Directories compete for some of the same traffic as hosts - people who are looking to buy hosting. But futhermore, it also attracts traffic from people looking for advice on and wish to compare hosting services.

Yeah, I completely agree that a hosting directory site is competing for some of the same traffic as host sites, and targeting some of the same keywords on search engines. I guess my point was that there have been dozens of threads here on the topic of getting traffic to host sites through search engines (I know, because I've participated in most of them) to the point where they're the same answers over and over. This is an interesting twist on the question, so I'd like to see it not have all the same answers! :)

One thing: directory sites in general have a powerful built-in advantage over hosting sites in search engine positioning. I'd go as far as to say that a hosting directory should almost always be able to beat a host's site for any hosting query it targets. So I'd certainly try to take advantage of that and maximize search engine traffic -- even while a lot of hosts have practically given up on it.

One thing: directory sites in general have a powerful built-in advantage over hosting sites in search engine positioning.

This is certainly true. Directory sites are content driven so typically have hundreds of pages of content, and are much more likely to get hundreds of incoming links by nature of being a resource rather than a web host site designed primarily to be an online sales tool. Content is a big factor in overall SE success.

Directory sites should also further qualify the prospects for a particular hosting requirement - i,e make it more targeted than the raw search engine traffic - so it's important that the traffic arriving at the directory is targeted when it arrives. It's really pointless if a directory is simply passing on pop-up ad traffic for example.

In terms of bringing in traffic to our site - we have found that advertising is only really useful for branding purposes - the traffic that we get from advertising does not typically generate sales for the hosting companies listed, it's more curiosity visitors (who of course may come back later) - but for the most part it is the traffic from SE that ultimately results in a sale for a host. We haven't done any PPC advertising - but one would expect that this should be as equally targeted as google or Yahoo traffic.

We won't spend money on advertising in a web hosting directory unless that web hosting directory is spending lots and lots of money on advertising.

We won't spend money on advertising in a web hosting directory unless that web hosting directory is spending lots and lots of money on advertising.

hard to comprehend that logic

Sites like WebHostDir etc get fed by targeted traffic from search engines, provide a resource & then sell advertising to support the directory.

Well here is an original method we use:


http://www.findsp.com/hosting/?cobid=1

(We do this only with highly targeted webmaster related sites).

I agree with bitserv - too many hosting dirs expect a piece of your (the hosts) ad budget, but barely have an ad budget of their own. Yes, some hosting dirs are well hooked up in the search engines, but still I think we have an obligation to re-invest as much of our revenues back into more traffic as possible.

I confess we've looked down some useless roads for finding new traffic over the years, but are constantly trying to turn over new rocks for new visitor sources and all in all has worked pretty well.

too many hosting dirs expect a piece of your (the hosts) ad budget, but barely have an ad budget of their own. Yes, some hosting dirs are well hooked up in the search engines, but still I think we have an obligation to re-invest as much of our revenues back into more traffic as possible.

Directories that sell advertising have one obligation - to provide what that they promise - to put hosts ads in front of people interested in hosting. If to do that the directory has spend money on advertising because they have no position in search engines then so be it - but other than that no directory has any obligation to advertise. The traffic that comes into a hosting directory from ads (except for PPC ads) is mostly not high quality & advertising is used for branding not to drive traffic.

If you were going to advertise in a magazine - what would be your criteria? - Their circulation, target audience etc or how much the magazine themselves advertised - think about it - your logic is flawed big time.

So what are you saying - just get listed in the SE's and sit and collect money from the hosts?

If I were going to advertise in a magazine, I'd look at their circulation and demographic, sure. But hosting dirs are a slightly different breed and I still believe have an obligation to continue to try and dig up new sources of traffic.

What - are you telling me that besides your hosting costs and whatever costs you can ram through your business you operate at a 100% profit margin?

Lastly - if it's all about SE's to you, then why should a host advertise with you and not just focus on the SE's themselves?

We don't sell any advertising - so my comments have nothing to do with FindMyHosting.

My logic is simple - worry about what makes sense for your own business, not how other businesses are run. A huge amount of time and effort is needed to create a successful hosting directory. Search Engine traffic is highly targetted - that's why people pay $5 a click on overture. Traffic from Ads into a hosting directory is not nearly as targeted as SE traffic.

I agree - if a host can get themselves listed in the SE then they have no need for spending ad$ in a hosting directory beyond perhaps branding.

Ad based Hosting directories have an obligation to provide what they claim to - targeted traffic & branding to the host The host has an obligation to themselves to make marketing decisions based on common sense - not based on off the wall thinking.

Well, ad based hosting directories are still comprehensive directories of hosts and their offerings, they just have have ways for aggressive hosts to get enhanced exposure. Nothing wrong with that model - at least not so far.

BTW - you do have a very nice site though.

Thanks - you have a nice site also.

I agree with your last comment 100% - there is nothing wrong with ad based hosting directories, the discussion was about how hosting directories get their traffic - my difference of opinion was about the logic that directories have an obligation to advertise themselves.

Thanks for all the excellent views and comments concerning how do web hosting directories drive traffic to their sites.

I'm in the building mode of our hosting service and marketing is my thing.

I have considerable experience with the major PPC SEs and I can say that in our applications the only real game in PPC is Overture. We tried the others but they can't provide the traffic. Also you must be ranked in the top 3 if you want any real traffic / conversions.

With the current prices for top 3 listings for high count keywords at Overture, and with the current high payout structure for hosting affiliate programs, I'm keen to gather all the info I can on hosting directories and their MOs.

When it's ALL said and done - The Proof of the Pudding is in the Eating of it. If a web hosting directory provides a good ROI for your advertising dollars, then they provide a valuable service and will be around along time. Send them a thank you note and a special gift.

Of course us newbies have to get all our ducks in a row, know our conversion rates and be sure we can sell before we are ready to shell out smackaroos on ad budgets.

Originally posted by NovaW
hard to comprehend that logic

They should still be spending money on advertising, whether they are spending it on getting into seach engines or bringing even more traffic than they had before. Show me a web hosting directory that is just pocketing the money given to them, and not spending some of it to drive traffic to their own site, and we won't use them. You may not think it's logical, but it's not your money.

Ok - so it's an emotional issue - it must be because there is no business logic in it all. All that should matter is the ROI - not how the directory spends it's money

I guess Nova - but I think any business that is not making a serious reinvestment in itself to offer more and better service to their customers is overlooking one of the most fundamental rules of business. I don't care what the industry is.

I personally feel that in our industry traffic and branding are one of the best reinvestments we could make. -

But, I guess if I knew it all I'd be rich! :)

I agree with lpguitars here. Hosting directories need to re-invest back.

Hosting directories should think of the general web hosting users and make up a model which keeps in mind their needs..

Whenever i am browsing a hosting directory, all i am mainly seeing are ads...how about some education? Many of us do not know the basics of hosting..how about trying to educate them on general terms...

I mean there is nothing wrong with advertising only hosting dirs but then it should not be tooo commercial..

just my 2 cents... :D

Wow that was an old thread back from the dead

Agree 100% that any resource site should continually re-invest back in itself.

The best thing a directory can do is strive to be a great consumer resource - then everybody wins. The consumer, the directory & the host who can then use the resource as a platform for promotion.

The discussion in that thread was around the logic that a hosting directory has an obligation to advertise itself (which I disagreed with) - if a directory is selling ads to hosts then a directory has an obligation to be a great resource which attracts the right type of visitor.

Recently a new directory is popping up every week & they are trying to sell ads before they have already even launched - this is where it gets crazy & generally is bad for the web in general imho

Eh, maybe "obligated" is a a poor choice of words. Maybe I should have just said, "I think it is wise for dirs such as ours to try and reinvest as much as possible back into our own businesses as possible. Obviously it not only provides a better service to our advertisers but duh helps us grow our businesses as well.

And yeah, there's about as many dirs as there are hosts these days. I'm sure any day now we'll see a directory of hosting directories. LOL - In fact I'd put money on it! :)

too late :) http://www.hostdirs.com haha lol.. funny

give it some time and you'll probably see hostdirdirs.com :)

lol..

I actually quite like the idea of a hostdir dir. I think www.hostdirs.com have alot of potiental.

Add alexa results to each listing proving their traffic and give the ability for web hosts to add plans to multiple hosting dirs using one form.

This thread got so far without me noticing :rolleyes:

My turn ;) ... we drive 300,000 visits through HostAZ largely through http://www.w3exit.com and our partner sites. Our traffic are 100% webmaster, site owners, etc. :cool:

nice thread :D

can you please list some of your best host directories here?

Shikha

that hostdir site is a nice idea - they just need to make the info in it accurate & maybe add the alexa ranking stuff

Nice idea ... just browsed their site ... it's useful for web hosts wanting to compare ad rates ...

Nice idea Vsector and Nova - thanks for the good feedback. We've added the alexa data to our listings.

We're also working on sort of a "traffic verification" system for dirs to gain an added traffic endorsement. If any dirs wish to try the beta please let us know.

Thanks again for the ideas. I hope you will submit more.

Happy new year all!

Yes the Alexa rankings will add value to the list. :cool:

You might want to order your list by the alexa data. The other data is just what sites tell you & it is fairly meaningless data that you have there right now. Alexa is a consistent approach & is good for comparative rankings.

"fairly meaningless data "

thank you Nova.

Sorry - didn't mean to offend - it's just the truth - the data is just what sites enter & it's vastly inflated.

No - no offense at all Nova. I just get a chuckle at how you like to words things.

OK - I've given you some basic sort features on the browse page. It's not overly pretty - but is somewhat funny to compare "posted" stats with alexa data. :)

Cool - you did that quick !

Yep - that is quite an interesting story indeed. I think your site has a great potential to be of real value to hosts - a site like yours is much needed.

One idea - get the directories to give you access to their logfiles & analyse where their visitors come from. If they are honest & want to sell ads with their cards on the table - they should have no problem with that.

"One idea - get the directories to give you access to their logfiles & analyse where their visitors come from. If they are honest & want to sell ads with their cards on the table - they should have no problem with that."

Whew - that one is going to be a tough sell! :)

Ultimately we'd love flat out be able to track perfomance in most all capacity - impressions, clicks, signups, etc. - but we have to start somewhere.

Thanks again!

Just dropped by your site again ... looking good ... added my site too ;)

Originally posted by NovaW
You might want to order your list by the alexa data. The other data is just what sites tell you & it is fairly meaningless data that you have there right now. Alexa is a consistent approach & is good for comparative rankings.

I guess this is a starting point, its better than trusting people to enter honest stats, but its not exactly what I'd call fool proof.

The Alexa stats are easily manipulated by those that want a quick route to the top of the table. So i think relying on them for page views is not such a wise choice.

I would add more metrics to give an even broader picture of the truth. Using maybe a service simillar to www.marketleap.com to see how well linked to the site is across multiple search engines. Much harder to manipulate.

I do agree the site is an excellent idea and could be built into a valuable resource supporting the rapidly growing hosting industry.

Originally posted by HostDirs.com
"One idea - get the directories to give you access to their logfiles & analyse where their visitors come from. If they are honest & want to sell ads with their cards on the table - they should have no problem with that."

Whew - that one is going to be a tough sell! :)

Ultimately we'd love flat out be able to track perfomance in most all capacity - impressions, clicks, signups, etc. - but we have to start somewhere.

Thanks again!

I'd recommend to add a reviews section where hosts could review the directory request additions - and tell about their experience...

I think the Alexa stats are fairly accurate ... mine's at about 45,000th though it ought to be higher as we've over 300,000 visits ... but generally if your site is under 50,000th for Alexa, it's a fairly well travelled site. ;)

As for the reviews, I think they must be verified to be posted by real customers of the directories. Otherwise anyone can post negative comments about the directory ... degrading the overall usefulness of the data.

Originally posted by HostAZ
I think the Alexa stats are fairly accurate

What i meant was to rely on them will only lead to a newer type of fraud. After all using Alexa in the first place implies you do not trust the stats reported by the dirs. So its not exactly a leap of faith to believe the same sites might set about inflating their alexa ratings. Alexa has virtually no fraud prevention. Even site reviews are accepted without editorial intervention. You are in danger of dropping one method in favour of another flawed one. Which is why i suggested a more balanced approach. Use Alexa by all means, but alongside several other methods to give a more balanced measurement.

As for Dir reviews, i think you might be in danger of falling into another trap. How many threads on WHT have complained about host reviews on dirs?

As I say the site is a good idea, but i dont think simply copying the existing dirs approach is the right way to go. Just an opinion.....

Again - all great ideas. Thank you. Yes James the marketleap data is nice - I learned that one from you. ;)

User reviews of some sort are definately coming - but a question for the hosts - would you want to risk diluting your results from a good source by recommending it to your competitors?

Thanks again for the great feedback. I really appreciate it.

So its not exactly a leap of faith to believe the same sites might set about inflating their alexa ratings. Alexa has virtually no fraud prevention. Even site reviews are accepted without editorial intervention. You are in danger of dropping one method in favour of another flawed one

Alexa rankings are not tied to the crummy rating tool alexa has for sites. The alexa ranking works by collecting data on sites that people with the alexa toolbar visit. Enough people have the alexa toolbar installed so as to make this a statistically significant analysis useful for comparative analysis. Every site follows the exact same rules - so it is consistent.

Yahoo is No.1 - i.e it is the most visited site of alexa toolbar users (seems fairly accurate)
Google No.5
WHT No.2587 and so on.

So - the number is a ranking and although it not perfect it is useful & not easy to cheat it. What the alexa ranking doesn't tell you anything about is the type or quality of the traffic. Which is important when you are interested in real leads not just raw traffic.

HostAZ - your alexa ranking is probably not higher than it is because a lot of the 300,000 visitors are popups - i'm just guessing but alexa probably doesn't get chance to log these.

Originally posted by NovaW

HostAZ - your alexa ranking is probably not higher than it is because a lot of the 300,000 visitors are popups - i'm just guessing but alexa probably doesn't get chance to log these.

Yup they are popUNDERs provided by http://www.w3exit.com
They're popped under w3exit's URL so the Alexa ranking goes to there ... that's why w3exit has a ranking of 6,200th currently .. ;)

But I'm ok with that too ... since I always provide my advertisers with a printscreen of our stats .. :cool:

Originally posted by NovaW


Alexa rankings are not tied to the crummy rating tool alexa has for sites. The alexa ranking works by collecting data on sites that people with the alexa toolbar visit.

Alexa has an ip block in place for only 24 hours so it can be manipluated by anyone determined enough. Your point about yahoo and google is valid, however due to their relative size they are bound to have a significant number of visitors using alexa. Ask your self how many web masters or developers Dirs target audiences) like having a tool in their browser that monitors their viewing habbits? Just an opinion.


Anyway my point was not how good or bad Alexa was, it was to have a balanced approach. As i said the idea is a step in the right direction. However its only one in many needed to weed out the fraud within our industry.

Originally posted by James Cross


Ask your self how many web masters or developers Dirs target audiences) like having a tool in their browser that monitors their viewing habbits? Just an opinion.


You do know that Internet Explorer loggs all your visits and reports them back to Microsoft?

IE was created to benefit Microsoft as a marketing tool. It collects our data, and sends it back to Microsoft, and they in turn sell it to people in the respective markets.

Originally posted by hostgrid


You do know that Internet Explorer loggs all your visits and reports them back to Microsoft?

IE was created to benefit Microsoft as a marketing tool. It collects our data, and sends it back to Microsoft, and they in turn sell it to people in the respective markets.

Yeah and Bill Gates was the guy on the Grassy Knoll in Dallas ;)

Come again?

Originally posted by hostgrid
Come again?

Maybe you should look up "grassy Knoll"

Ehhhh... too lazy

well ... just about all of the world's emails and communications are monitored by super computers ... so :rolleyes:

Originally posted by HostAZ
well ... just about all of the world's emails and communications are monitored by super computers ... so :rolleyes:

I know I'm going to regret asking this question, but...... for what master plan are they being monitored?

They make money finding out what you are interested in, and then market products to you.

Originally posted by hostgrid
They make money finding out what you are interested in, and then market products to you.

Who is this mysterious "they"? I'd love to still believe the world is that well organised but the truth is its not. "They" may well gather data but there is not grand purpose for its use. Everything you do in an electronic world is tracked and logged. But believing that there is a big brother watching over it all is a little like believing in the tooth fairy.

what a load of BS...

nobody has supercomputers that logs emails

Originally posted by vSector
what a load of BS...

nobody has supercomputers that logs emails

Thank you Vsector! At last someone who makes some sense. I thought for a minute it was me who had lost it ;)

"I thought for a minute it was me who had lost it "

- James - what does this topic have to do with that? Hahahahahaha~! Just joking!

Originally posted by James Cross


Yeah and Bill Gates was the guy on the Grassy Knoll in Dallas ;)


:)

Good one

Originally posted by Lonny



:)

Good one

Thanks Lonny, glad someone here is old enough to get it ;)

Doesn't webhostdir and similar ad-based hosting directories put a barrier for fair competition amongst hosts?

Let's face it, you click on "dedicated servers" and all you get is a dozen or so of paid-up banners of big market players with high price tickets.

And you can't do a straight search by filling in a text box and click the submit button.

Companies like valueweb, interland must be getting dozens of sales through them each month. For those companies, those directories must be a God-send. A kind of "private dedicated portal."

IMHO the misleading part of it is, the reader is made to believe that when they click on "dedicated servers" that they are getting impartial, "free" recommendation from a "trusted source."

Just my opinion.

I believe you are taking the definition of "fair competition" a bit far. Just because a service offers a place to be that you choose not to invest to be does not mean they are unfair. By your standard, would you think that overture is not fair?

I think if webhostdir's claim was they were the unbiased "consumer reports" of the hosting industry, then showed you a sponsored list of hosts pretending they were based on other research - sure - but it only take a few seconds on their site to clearly see they are sponsor based content.

While there are plenty of "we don't sell advertising" hosting directories out there - most exist to make some money some how some way.

In addition - regardles of the aruments for "non-biased" directories, is it not safe to assume that in most cases those investing the most to gain your business on the front end (advertising) have also invested the most into retaining your business?

Originally posted by HostDirs.com
I believe you are taking the definition of "fair competition" a bit far. Just because a service offers a place to be that you choose not to invest to be does not mean they are unfair. By your standard, would you think that overture is not fair?

I could'nt have put it better myself.

>>> Originally posted by HostDirs.com:

> Just because a service offers a place to be that you choose not to invest...

I feel I could easily invest to bid for a third place (skywebnet.com) in the "dedicated server showcase" in webhostdir.com if I could only have the courage to rent out dedicated servers for $15,180 per year! : http://www.skynetweb.com/dedicated/windows2000.php

> By your standard, would you think that overture is not fair?

I think Overture and PPC IS a fair system. Alright, you still get ranked by what you pay. But you won't get kicked out of the system if you've only got $50 to spare.

> ... but it only take a few seconds on their site to clearly see they are sponsor based content.

How do you get to see that? Click on "dedicated servers" in webhostdir.com, and what do you see? A "Sponsored by:" entry at the top (which is also repeated on the front page) under "Spotlight: Dedicated Server Hosting." The entries with banners have no indication of any shape or form that they've been paid for...

My favorite heading has to be the one at the bottom: "Web Host Directory Recommends." Please James, can I have a recommendation too? :eek:

These are the two misleading aspects.

> While there are plenty of "we don't sell advertising" hosting directories out there - most exist to make some money some how some way.

That's a fair-do. Any commercial enterprise needs to be funded + make a profit. But that's not the topic on hand. :)

I'm not against the ad-based hosting directories per se. I am against the marketing model that it pushes down the throat of the unawares audience. (And no, these two statements don't mean the same!)

Mistral I can see where you are coming from but I still don't really agree. I also don't really know what you meant about the courage to sell a $15k server.

Unaware audiences? Does webhostdir or tophosts make any claims about a host that the host does not make on their own? You make it sound like a paid dir is fooling a customer into making a choice they should not make, and this simply is not the truth. In fact it's one of the few forms of advertising that actually has competitive ads / choices right on the same page.

HostDirs, I think you're mixing up the solely ad-based directories (e.g. webhostdir.com) with search and review based paid directories (e.g. findmyhosting.com).

The solely ad-based directory is essentially a collection of text and banner links. There are no objective reviews done. You are not being restricted in what you want to say or how you want to say it. There's no control mechanism.

The $15K dedicated server was an example of the kind of pricing level companies like skywebnet can impose.

I used the word "unaware audiences" for solely ad-based directories. I gave two examples of how people are being fooled into thinking that they are getting objective assessments and recommendations.

I think there are a few different points

- No site like webhostdir has an obligation to create a place of fair competition, an ad based site is selling ads to companies that can afford to buy the ads - which means by default the larger companies have more opportunity to advertise. I see no problem with that - afterall every company has a 'fair' chance to become 'big enough' - nobody handed interland etc anything on a plate - they created what they have. Actually in reality - you don't have to be a big player to advertise on sites like webhostdir etc, so in reality it is fair to hosts.

- The question of presenting ads as recommendations is miss-leading to the consumer no doubt about that, but again these sites can recommend what they like, even if the recommendation is really "These sites gave us money to recommend them". The question really is how much do they want to compromise their future? Consumers become more savvy & educated over time & eventually will dismiss resources that they don't trust. Any transition takes time on the web because the web is a network and once you are a large node on a network you have a natural pulling power.

- The argument about non ad / ad based models is not really an ethical one. One will not replace the other. HostDir - you mentioned there are plenty of "we don't do advertising sites" - really? - name 2 of them

Well Nova you claim to be one, and well here's another one for example:

http://www.hostdetective.net/

Here's a quote from their site:

"Welcome to Host Detective, one of the best web hosting directories offering non biased results. Host Detective brings you the lastest top ten listings, category listings, articles, press releases and more. "

So - do da math - 1 2. Let me know if you want more.

that has an ad on the home page. You said non advertising sites - I asked you to name 2 such sites

OK - what I meant was where the results (the lists of hosts, servers, plans whatever) were not sponsor driven.

But here's another - I did not go through every page, but I don't see any ads.

They appear to be just like you and promote plans based on affiliate / pay-per-sale methods.

http://www.100best-web-hosting.com/

One minute you say sites that claim to be not biased and then you give examples like that :eek:

I can firmly say that FindMyHosting does not follow anything close to that site's model

Take another look - it could be renamed Top 100 affiliate payout sites. The ranking in FindMyHosting is not impacted by affiliate payout level.

I was to a large degree agreeing to your earlier posts - just questioning the comment you made about there being plenty of non advertising directories

Nova - a host does not get into your site at all unless they agree to run that piece of code that tracks the signup - plus boosts you up in google - correct???

Now you are telling me that you are not an affiliate?

Do you allow hosts into your site without agreeing to pay you a commission for signups?

The first site I showed you was 3 lists supposedly based on non-biased member votes. That site showed 1 ad so you denied it. Now this second site which shows no ads but operates as an affiliate - similar to yourself - does not qualify either?

Man - is this a fair test?

There are fundamental differences between that 100 best hosting site and FindMyHosting. There is 1 similarity - commissions.

That sites awards a top 10 list when clearly the top of the list is high paying affiliate programs. i.e the commissions are variable and the higher the payout the higher you get recommended.

That approach is conning the consumer - sorry but it is. There are 1000's of solid, well performing hosts in existance - why are they excluded? Where was their invitation to be even considered?

FindMyHosting does not judge, nor recommend any host period. We are not and never will be qualified to judge a hosting company. Only real information can do that - measured reliability & customer reviews. Beyond ensuring that the info is as accurate as possible - I have no control over who is listed no.1 or No.100 on any search - that is purely upto the hosts to decide.

The tracking code has no impact on google - I wish it did ! We are high on google because people link to us.

Just to add - In case you accuse me of it - the hostinspector site does not look biased at all - it is providing data for the consumer created by consumers.

BTW Nova - a question about your "ethical, honest, non-misleading, wonderful site...

I searched your really cheap plans and at the top is a .15 per month hosting plan with no setup fee from referable.com.

I clicked and went to signup - but by the time I signup it costs $18.94.

Here's the 2checkout page:

S199-YD Yearly S199 Hosting with Domain (Special Offer) Every 1 Year(s) $ 1.99
Start Up Cost One Time $ 16.95

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total Billed Today $ 18.94

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now my question is how accurate and ethical is your site?

"There are fundamental differences between that 100 best hosting site and FindMyHosting. "

Oh - my bad - you are an affiliate site with search and sort capabilities. I now see the light!

Thanks for clearing that up Nova.

All I can give you is facts.

By the way - the example you used - the $16.95 is the domain name fee. So your example is false, but I am sure you could have found some innacurate host listings.

As I said above "Beyond ensuring that the info is as accurate as possible"

Do I believe that all the info in FMH is 100% accurate? - no it isn't. We have recently implemented a step where 1 person is employed full time to review every single plan as it is added, edited and all the existing plans are being reviewed. Why have we done this? - because it will increase our value to the consumer & I know that our growth is tied to that and that alone.

Hey Nova - I've always thought findmyhosting.com was a great site - so I'm not here to knock it. I actually just get a bit tired of watching you bash paid hosting dirs from your "non-biased" soapbox when you are just as much in this for the money as anyone.

And as for the accuracy of you data -

go order the plan yourself man - it's your data...

you choose to get a new domain or transfer a domain it's still a $16.95 fee.

Here's the signup link to your advertised plan:

http://referable.com/order/order.php?domain=&package=RC100Y-199

Complete to the next step and u will see.

... goog gracious I cannot believe I am missing sleep for this. Night all! :)

You may think that I have bashed ad based directories - but if you read back through my posts - if anything I was defending them & on many other occasions I have said only good things about many ad based sites.

I give my opinion on the long term business viability of conning consumers - that is all. Just because a site has ads does not mean it is conning consumers.

i did not read the whole thread in fact .. i read only the first 2 pages .. but i want to breif the hosting directories in few words

THEY ARE ALL SUCKS ....... only tophosts i find it all over the web, but the others never spend a single $ to enhance their traffic, just invent methods to spread showcases and get more money from hosts .. :mad:

I want every host directory replied here to tell me his position in google, altavista with key words like "hosting, host, webhost,.." ...

Google (& Yahoo)

Web Hosting - No.5 & No. 15
Cheap Web Hosting - No.1
web hosting services - No.4
hosting - No.6
frontpage web hosting - No.3
jsp web hosting - no.8
affordable web hosting - no.8
reseller web hosting - no. 1

+ others etc ...

Originally posted by 2Mhost
i did not read the whole thread in fact .. i read only the first 2 pages .. [/B]

Maybe you should get all the facts before jumping into a thread.

Originally posted by 2Mhost

THEY ARE ALL SUCKS ....... only tophosts i find it all over the web, but the others never spend a single $ to enhance their traffic, just invent methods to spread showcases and get more money from hosts .. :mad:
[/B]


This statement is not true. Do you think that directories simply go on over the years because they are lucky? We have invested 100k's over the last 5 years to keep us where we are. Believe me our monthly ad spend is a lot more than most hosts. Like all successful businesses, you must re-invest to maintain your market share. This is something we take very seriously. Unless you have advertised with "THEY ARE ALL SUCKS" (as you put it) all the directories in the market, which at last count is around 300+ sites, i think youre making a generalisation. A little like saying all hosts suck, because you had a bad experience with one or two.


Originally posted by 2Mhost

I want every host directory replied here to tell me his position in google, altavista with key words like "hosting, host, webhost,.." ...

If your really serious about advertising again on our site and want to know any marketing numbers, then please feel free to contact our sales team. We're not in the habbit of soliciting sales enquiries from bulletin boards.

Originally posted by mistral1

My favorite heading has to be the one at the bottom: "Web Host Directory Recommends." Please James, can I have a recommendation too? :eek:

Sure just give our sales team a call. You do realise we are an ad based business model, right? Tell you what just for you, I'll get the guys to create a "Web Host Directory .....DOESNT RECOMMEND" area on each page. You can have top slot for FREE

You might want to think twice when you next use that big yellow book near your phone. You know I’ve heard a rumour that people actually pay to get listed in prime position in there! If that ever got out the World would be in a panic.......I can just hear them now....."my gosh my plumber ripped me off, i thought he was listed as a full page ad because he was the best there is" LOL

This advertising is bad routine is getting old. The World is full of advertising and most of it doesn’t say "this is an advertisement" in big letters above it. Thankfully the general population have the intelligence to make a decision for themselves.

And please, if i give you the courtesy of letting you know who I’ am when talking to you, please do the same for us. Blank sig file and personal profiles tell a story......(don’t tell me you didn’t want to exploit the WHT for free promotion.)

NovaW [FindMyHosting.com]:

Thank you so much for answer, results is very good and you really pleasured me ... i'll subscribe withing few days ...


James Cross [WebHostDir.com]:
excuse me .. webhostdir is the big sucks in fact and the worst in results with me ever .. and if you check your records you will find that i advertised twice with you ..

just tell me ...

1. what is your ranking for keywords NovaW used ?
2. from where you get your traffic ? (please give me exact URLs)

Thanks

Originally posted by 2Mhost

James Cross [WebHostDir.com]:
excuse me .. webhostdir is the big sucks in fact and the worst in results with me ever ..

I'm sorry your campaign performed poorly on our site. I'm confident that given the opportunity to analyse the reasons for its apparent failure we could have found a solution. I'm more than willing to investigate the matter with your account manager on your behalf.

As for stats, we have the largest advertising base of ALL directories. That speaks for itself. We have clients that have been with us for over 4 years. That again speaks for itself. As I said earlier we are not in the habit of conducting business in an open forum. I think after 5 years we've moved on from the position of needing to justify our position in the industry.

I have been posting here for over 2 years and I think I can say with some confidence my posts have always been of a balanced nature. I do not spend my time posting critical remarks on hosts by name as I feel it would be unprofessional to do so. (Chicken any comments?) Believe me after the length of time I’ve been in the business I could really name and shame.

This thread was of a light hearted nature until 2-3 pages ago, when people began slandering sites by name. Like all responsible business owners I thought it would be negligent of me not to respond in our defence.

PS: I tried to look at your site http://www.2mhost.com but it was down for the hour or so i was online. That could cause some drop offs in your sign ups from advertising.

>>> Originally posted by James Cross:

> ... Tell you what just for you, I'll get the guys to create a "Web Host Directory .....DOESNT RECOMMEND" area on each page. You can have top slot for FREE.

I guess any PR is better than none. :D

Grant you, you can't be taken to court for unfair competition with your heading that says "Web Host Directory Recommends"... while you are actually getting paid all the time for those so-called recommendations. Because, after all you're using the word "recommend" correctly in the true spirit of salesmanship. These are the two definitions that fit your heading:

"Push for something"

"Make attractive or acceptable"

A door-to-door salesman is doing the same when he's "recommending" a certain brand of miracle cure. He doesn't have to know about the properties of the product he's "recommending." He doesn't have to worry over concepts like "value", "fairness", "quality". What he's interested in is his sales commission.

The word "recommend" also has this definition that would not be even remotely related to your cause:

"Express a good opinion of"

That can only come from someone who has already used the product or service to his or her satisfaction (word of mouth).

It would be interesting to survey a group of, say, 50 members of public and ask them which of these 3 definitions they would most likely identify the word "recommend" with. :) Could you guess the result?

> You might want to think twice when you next use that big yellow book near your phone.

Aren't yellow books universally known to be as containing categorized commercial listings + Ads? Yes, it does bias the larger ads but you also have the option to search through the unbiased listings... unlike a solely ad-based directory.

> This advertising is bad routine is getting old... Thankfully the general population have the intelligence to make a decision for themselves.

Advertising isn't "bad." Every ad piece has to be by definition biased. IMHO what makes advertising bad is when it is "unfair" and "uncontrolled" in its representation. When, for example, mcdonalds boasts about 100% beef but conceals the fact that 95% of that beef is saturated animal fat (mixed up with "taste-bud" chemicals and served up in an equally fat laden bun) that can have pretty devastating effects on the health of the unawares public that buys into their advertising.

> And please, if i give you the courtesy of letting you know who I am when talking to you, please do the same for us.

I would do that if I ever contact your company with a view to advertise. ;)

""i did not read the whole thread in fact .. i read only the first 2 pages .. but i want to breif the hosting directories in few words

THEY ARE ALL SUCKS "

What's a suck? Yup there are lots of not so great host dirs out there - but that's a pretty broad statement. I know many hosts that have built their entire business using host dirs.

2m - did you really run a real ad campaign or did you just buy an ad for a month then walk away pissed? Although dirs do generate instant clicks, they are still "advertising" and follow much the same set of rules as other advertising. - Duration and repetition are key.

Hey - when I was in hosting and did not have the budget to be on some of the bigger dirs - I resented the @#$#@ out of them and their advertising hosts too. :)

Originally posted by mistral1

Grant you, you can't be taken to court for unfair competition with your heading that says "Web Host Directory Recommends"... while you are actually getting paid all the time for those so-called recommendations. Because, after all you're using the word "recommend" correctly in the true spirit of salesmanship. These are the two definitions that fit your heading:


Just to put the record straight. In actual fact the web host directory recomends section are a collection of links that route visitors to various areas of our own site. These are not paid listings. However the chances are high that the areas you are directed to will contain paid listings.

Originally posted by mistral1

Aren't yellow books universally known to be as containing categorized commercial listings + Ads? Yes, it does bias the larger ads but you also have the option to search through the unbiased listings... unlike a solely ad-based directory.

Yes as you say they are known for their "directory". Our name is what again???? Ohh thats right "Web Host Directory" Very misleading i know.... We to have areas on our site which also contain non paid exposure to hosts. So we are not a soley ad based directory as you put it. Articles, Interviews and press release syndication are all free on our site as is a standard database entry and forum product postings.

I'm sorry that dirs dont live up to your high standards of business. Prehaps if you came out of the shadows we could comment openly on your own ethics????

webhostdir .... sorry if you can not see my site :stickout:

can you please answer this:

1. what is your ranking for keywords NovaW used ?
2. from where you get your traffic ? (please give me exact URLs)

Originally posted by 2Mhost
webhostdir .... sorry if you can not see my site :stickout:

can you please answer this:

1. what is your ranking for keywords NovaW used ?
2. from where you get your traffic ? (please give me exact URLs)

Do you actually ever read the thread the before posting? I've included the main points i raised above in this posting to help you out ;)


Originally posted by James Cross

I tried to look at your site http://www.2mhost.com but it was down for the hour or so i was online. That could cause some drop offs in your sign ups from advertising.


Originally posted by James Cross

As for stats, we have the largest advertising base of ALL directories. That speaks for itself. We have clients that have been with us for over 4 years. That again speaks for itself. As I said earlier we are not in the habit of conducting business in an open forum. I think after 5 years we've moved on from the position of needing to justify our position in the industry.

why you do not answer in brief like findmyhosting did ?

"largest advertising base of ALL directories" is good thing ,, but this is not the advantage .. i think 100s of hosts goes to your site and update plans and check what others sell is generate a useless traffic ..

Originally posted by 2Mhost
why you do not answer in brief like findmyhosting did ?

Jeez you still missed the point! Here it is again, nice and short for you.

"As for stats, we have the largest advertising base of ALL directories. That speaks for itself. We have clients that have been with us for over 4 years. That again speaks for itself. As I said earlier we are not in the habit of conducting business in an open forum. I think after 5 years we've moved on from the position of needing to justify our position in the industry. "

Actually 2m - in terms of keyword rankings webhostdir is within the top 3. While I recognize findmyhosting has done a great job with his google rankings - webhostdir is very deep rooted in the engines. Just search around and you will find it.

Something else - webhostdir and tophosts are 2 dirs that seem to get tons of written publicity. Whenever I read an article about hosting and a hosting dir gets mentioned - those two seem to be the most common mentions.

Whether webhostdir works for everyone - I cannot answer but in terms of SE's and other types of sites it is very well rooted.

As for stats, we have the largest advertising base of ALL directories. That speaks for itself. We have clients that have been with us for over 4 years. That again speaks for itself. As I said earlier we are not in the habit of conducting business in an open forum. I think after 5 years we've moved on from the position of needing to justify our position in the industry.

jeeeeeeez .... is that your google ranking answer ?

HostDirs.com:

i know with whom i talk, but since 2 years webhostdir was sponser cgi-resources (as i remember) and hostsearch was sponser aspin, ......., ......

but now .. all disappear, i just notice tophosts.com everywhere in webmaster related sites and for that i was asking .. what hosting dirs did for us?

long history and big hosts base is not what give me good traffic ......

OK as youre paying so much attention to my business model, I'm going to break a golden rule of mine and comment on your business for a change.

Lets take a quick look at why you didnt do to well on your dirs advertising "spree".

1. Your reselling services from a foreign country. (Namely Egypt) Yet giving the impresion your actually in the US. You tend to find people dont like being mislead.

2. Your plans are priced at $1.95 and $2.95 respectively which is catering for the bottom end of the market. Where as you will find most of our clients are targeting the $10 + per month customer

3. You are one of those ohh so popular host that promotes "unlimited" bandwidth plans. Do you really think people fall for this stuff anymore?



Now do us both a favour and let this lie before we get really personal :bawling:

I have learned with working with many hosts and their advertising efforts in the past that not all dirs work for all hosts. In addition, not all messages / ads translate the same across all dirs.

It's important to know your dirs traffic. Take a look at their advertisers - especially the ones who have been there a long time - what and how are they selling there because obviously it must be working.

Unless your budget is just huge and you can afford to blindly blanket (brand) - then treat your advertising on any dir as competing with the other ads there - not just a global - one campaign fits all effort. If that makes sense.

I'm actually working on an article about just that that I hope to complete soon.

i did not ask you to check my site, you can start another thread to rate it and i'll answer you in details ... do i need to put pyramids on site to say that i'm not from USA :)

i asked you and i invite other hosts read this post to ask you:

1. what is your ranking in search engines for common keywords?
2. what the URL(s) lead to your site from webmasters sites ?
3. what the proofs of your visitors is webmasters not ppl interst in hosting industry?

side note .. if you think that Unlimited is kind of fraud .. why you accept my money twice and ripped me off ?

Originally posted by 2Mhost
i did not ask you to check my site, you can start another thread to rate it and i'll answer you in details ... do i need to put pyramids on site to say that i'm not from USA :)

i asked you and i invite other hosts read this post to ask you:

1. what is your ranking in search engines for common keywords?
2. what the URL(s) lead to your site from webmaster sites ?

I did'nt ask you to comment on my site but you took it on as a mini project.

As for pyramids that might be a start but at the very least don’t have a corporate info page that implies you are based in NY.

As is the case with your business, I do not have to justify my business to you.

You we're not happy with the return you got on our site, and decided against us helping improve that return. However you should also be aware that many hosts have been happy with the return they received from our site. Albeit they were predominately US based hosts. These companies have stayed with us for a period of years and not months. Although I appreciate they’re business acumen may not approach the levels you have acquired in your many years in the industry. I'm sure that Affinity, Verio, and RackSpace to name but a few of our clients, are treading cautiously knowing that 2Mhost is out there gobbling up their market share

Although I’ve enjoyed your witty little exchange over the last 24 hours, I'm a little too tired to think of anything more to ad to this thread. So please excuse me as I leave you to enjoy the silence.

still i need answers ......

1. what is your ranking in search engines for common keywords?
2. what the URL(s) lead to your site from webmaster sites ?

Hey 2m - Ever seen this site?

http://www.marketleap.com/publinkpop/

Although it does not tell you key words it's a good indicator as to how well someone is ranked.

ok .. ok .. you are tired .. let me help you ..

please complete this:


1. webhostdir rank for 'hosting' in google number:
2. webhostdir rank for 'webhosting' in google number:
3. webhostdir rank for 'web hosting' in google number:

we do sponsor this webmaster related sites:

http://
http://
http://



please complete above :D

Originally posted by 2Mhost
still i need answers ......

1. what is your ranking in search engines for common keywords?
2. what the URL(s) lead to your site from webmaster sites ?

OK last post on this subject.

Why should I want to provide you with this information when you have already accused me of scamming you? That is slander, incidentally. Egypt might be a long way away from us, but your data center isnt, would you like a legal letter issuing to them on our behalf???

Anyone else interested in Web Host Directory is more than welcome to contact us via the usual routes.

Thank you all for taking time out this evening to enjoy our little show. If you enjoyed yourselves, please tell your friends.

The James and 2Mhost show will be coming to a theatre near you soon!

Originally posted by 2Mhost

James Cross [WebHostDir.com]:
excuse me .. webhostdir is the big sucks in fact and the worst in results with me ever .. and if you check your records you will find that i advertised twice with you ..





Well I have to question your own words!! With such poor results why in the world would you advertise a second time with them. DUH!
Makes no sense whatsoever!

Originally posted by 2Mhost
side note .. if you think that Unlimited is kind of fraud .. why you accept my money twice and ripped me off ?


Well, unfortunatley I dont know ANY directory that turns down unlimited offerings....it'd be nice if we could ban the total concept all together and then I think we would all be better off....BUT, thats probably never going to happen.
You seem full of grudges obviously and to air all your dissatisfaction is really going nowhere and you are the one looking UNprofessional to say the least! Take it off of a public board!:rolleyes:
If I spend my hard earned money on a service, product, etc. and dont see at least some form of valid results, then why pay again?
Makes no sense to me.
It looks like he offered to help in a few ways, as far as discussing your ad campaign or whatever!
I can tell you to look around the boards here as I know James and the WHD staff has participated here as well as in their own forums and you wont find a better group of people. They actually join in on their own forums and take an interest in building the community, and have ALWAYS behaved professional, friendly, etc.
Looks like a pretty good thread went sour.
:rolleyes:

LOL - can't say it's been a boring one though. :)

2m - man there are lots more keywords turning up host buyers than just "web hosting". While yes those are golden keywords, don't overlook the many "reseller web hosting", "budget web hosting" - "php hosting" - I could go on forever.

It's a hosting dir's job to deliver buyers - judging by the calibre of advertiser webhostdir sports, plus the fact they have been going strong for years now - I must think that in more cases than not they are delivering buyers.

Nonetheless - there's lots of other traffic sources and MILLIONS of buyers out there. No single dir is going to make or break you in a couple months.

Originally posted by 2Mhost
ok .. ok .. you are tired .. let me help you ..

please complete this:


1. webhostdir rank for 'hosting' in google number:
2. webhostdir rank for 'webhosting' in google number:
3. webhostdir rank for 'web hosting' in google number:

we do sponsor this webmaster related sites:

http://
http://
http://



please complete above :D

2Mhost,

Obviously they are not going to give out their advertising secrets as if they did other directories could do the same to steal traffic away from them. It's kind of the same as if you ever found a directory that sent 1000 uniques to your page.. Would you tell anybody about it? I for sure wouldn’t, as I would want the traffic for myself. It's hard to find good ways to gather traffic to your website but it you do it's like finding a needle in a haystack and you would want to keep that needle away from your competitors. Anyway to sum it up, as long as they are a popular directory, their methods of keeping it that way are somewhat confidential.

Also if you are not advertising with them anymore, they really wouldn't have to tell you anything.

Originally posted by NovaW

By the way - the example you used - the $16.95 is the domain name fee. So your example is false, but I am sure you could have found some innacurate host listings.

As I said above "Beyond ensuring that the info is as accurate as possible"

Do I believe that all the info in FMH is 100% accurate? - no it isn't. We have recently implemented a step where 1 person is employed full time to review every single plan as it is added, edited and all the existing plans are being reviewed. Why have we done this? - because it will increase our value to the consumer & I know that our growth is tied to that and that alone. It looks as if your guy missed out on referable.com!

The actual cost of their plan is not .15 cents but a whopping $1.575 per month. That's 10.5 times the advertised price.

$0.15 --> $1.575

I think you are giving them "unfair" advantage (unknowingly or otherwise) by blinking an eye to their misleading pricing and advertising.

The way they have pulled that one over FMH is to force the customer signing up for their so-called cheap plan to do a registrar transfer (price: $16.95) as opposed to a DNS transfer (which is free). All their other plans allow for free DNS transfers except for this so-called cheap plan.

In brief, referable.com don't have a plan for 0.15 that you can signup for as advertised.

Now that you know it, do you intend to take any action about this?

As a potential advertiser, I for one will certainly wait for the result.

There seems to be another problem with your assessment of advertisers: The year they started in business. How do you evaluate that?

For example, referable.com has this on their so-called "corporate" page: (and how is it that there's no record of their address on their site nor in their domain record if they're a "corporate"?)

"Referable.Com was initially incepted in 1997. Our initial line of business was facused [oops!) on software development for the Windows Platform. Once successful, we added our consulting lines of business."

I mean, anyone could say they did software development since 1997.... on their home computer in their bedroom!

Moreover, the domain itself was registered just under a year ago: on January 10, 2002!

Whereas they are claiming that referable.com (the domain itself) was incepted in 1997!

I have no clue where you came up with $1.575 / month

I do agree that having to pay for a domain regardless is a bit miss-leading.

But, beyond that - what is your point? FMH is a competitive marketplace and hosts do whatever they can to get ahead of the next host - as I mentioned already, our goal is to ensure that the info is accurate as possible. Are we perfect? No - are you perfect?

Why do WE care about accuracy? - The consumer will not find FMH useful if the info is not accurate. There is also a way that you can file a complaint about the accuracy of a plan - did you do it?

You mention "As a potential advertiser, I for one will certainly wait for the result. "

You are not a potential advertiser - there is no advertising. You sound as if we are trying to recruit you - we are not. Our business is not related to selling something to hosts. Our focus is reaching people that want to buy web hosting. As a host you should be glad about that. In short - if a host does not like FMH it is no problem, there are 100 other hosts ready to take their place.

We treat every host the same - small or large - we don't care how much money you have or how big you are, you cannot buy special treatment or special promotion and we won't be upset if you don't like the idea behind FMH.

"We treat every host the same - small or large"

This is not exactly true Nova - about 5 months ago you rejected a host that I actually recommended your site to because they offered a free plan.

I don't recall your exact words as a reason - but it had something to do with the fact that you would not make any money from their listing.

I'll email the host to see if by some crazy chance they still have your email and I'll quote it.

HostDirs - you never give up do you?

Ok let me re-phrase that

"we treat every host that we let join the same" - concept being that you cannot buy a better listing or buy special treatment

NovaW, you are more careless than I thought you might be. :)

> I have no clue where you came up with $1.575 / month

Maybe you need to go to a maths refresher class or examine your advertisers more closely.

Here's the cost breakdown:

Cheap plan from referable.com: $1.99 per year

Domain transfer: $16.95 per year

Total: $18.94 per year

$18.94 / 12 months = ~$1.575 per month.

The advertised 0.15 price is a fallacy. Even if we considered this to be true, the price would have been $1.80 per year, and not $1.99 per year!

Do you agree to these figures or not?

> Why do WE care about accuracy?

How can you make this grandiose claim when you accept inaccurate data from advertisers?

> Our focus is reaching people that want to buy web hosting.

That's the goal of any hosting directory, nothing special in there.

> You are not a potential advertiser - there is no advertising.

You may also need a good dictionary by your side to find out about definitions:

Advertising:

"The business of drawing public attention to goods and services"

"A public promotion of some product or service"

Are you saying that these definitions don't apply to the businesses "appearing" in your directory?

> ...you cannot buy special treatment or special promotion

Well, you can. You are giving an obscure hosting business a preferential treatment and allowing them to mislead the public.

And, of course, you have conveniently ignored the issue about business start-up dates in my previous post! ;)

"HostDirs - you never give up do you? "

Thanks Nova - I take that as a compliment. Yes I work very very hard.

Thanks for clearing that up. :)

PS - I guess it was OK for you to try and challenge me about finding another Dir like yours - but it's not OK for me try and challenge you?

HostDirs - I answered all your questions. We can keep on challenging each other - thats ok :)

mistral1 -
As I said earlier - we have a focus on making sure that the info entered by hosts into FMH is as accurate as possible, in fact we have 1 person who works on this. This includes all aspects of the information you mention. So you found some info that you believe to be inaccurate - thanks for the heads up & your time - but beyond that - what is the point you are trying to make?

We don't sell advertising & you are not a potential advertiser. Sure you can get into semantics about the meaning of the word advertising - but again - what point are you trying to make?

Overall - it's clear you don't like nor respect the approach of FindMyHosting and like I said - thats perfectly ok by us. All discussions have been about the inherent approach or model. If you have suggestions or ideas on how to improve our implementation then I'm all ears - email your ideas or suggestions or post them here.

While I know I did bust your chops about that one host's plan - in Nova's defense, many hosts are not always honest when submitting their data to a dir - plus they often flop around in things like setup fee / no set up fee. It is hard for a dir to police it always...

Not to play both sides of the fence there but. ;)

NovaW, do you get a percentage of the amount of sales that the hosting business makes through leads gained from FMH? Is this your business model? I'm not totally clear about this.

Yes, we get 15% of the sale for 12 months maximium. If the host gets no sales then we get nothing.

Doh! I've been racking my brains asking myself "Why is it that NovaW doesn't wan't see the misleading price advertised by their No.1 ranking advertiser?"

> Yes, we get 15% of the sale for 12 months maximium.

This is the answer!

It's not that you're deficient in maths or you can't see the misleading pricing. ;)

You have to blink an eye... otherwise you would get a measly 30 cents out of the $2 plan advertised!

WE SIMPLY DON'T CARE ABOUT WHETHER THE ADVERTISED PRICES OR THE COMPANY ARE MISLEADING.... AS LONG AS WE GET OUR CUT! ...AND THE LARGER THE PRICE OF THE HOSTING PLAN, THE BIGGER OUR CUT!

(FindMyHosting.com's secret mission statement in block capitals.)

That explains it all. :D

That is just absurd

A person who is looking for hosting visits FindMyHosting & they buy a hosting plan. We make commission. What does it matter to us if they buy from hosting company X, Y or Z - it makes no difference to us.

Lets look at another scenario - A person visits FMH looking to buy web hosting & the info they find is incorrect. What happens - they leave and do not buy anything, then they tell their friends that FMH didn't help them etc etc.

So yeah - you can see that having innaccurate info would help us out a lot. Just out of interest for you - that plan has never sold once via FMH - people don't buy 15cent plans anyway. On top of that if it did - we would get commission on whatever price is listed in FMH.

Why do you say that we do not want to see the info you pointed out? I have already thanked you for dilligence & time and that plan has already been put on review hold. Perhaps you want us to mail you a ribbon.

Who are you mistral1 - what is your name? - you claim we have secret missions - yet you don't even have a name or a website evident in your WHT posts. Come out of the shadows.

The tone of your posts is that we are dishonest. This is the last response I make to one of your posts.

> The tone of your posts is that we are dishonest.

The subject of "honesty" and "dishonesty" is quite complicated, as we all know. I wouldn't say you were dishonest. Let's just say business pressures can make people behave in strange ways at times. ;)

I actually think FMH is quite a valuable concept for many hosts.

> This is the last response I make to one of your posts.

That was my last post about the topic, too. :D

once again .. its hard to read all replies .. but its appear that i chat against alot of ppl .. not a problem anyway

just may i clear some points.

1. i advertised twice with webhostdir because i got bad results first time while i have not good tracking software. but now i installed custom tracking software track the exact sales by IPs and cookies.

and because i never belive that BMW can make bad car i went and i advertised again with them. i stayed the number 1 in search results in my creteria for 30 days, i got 1 fraud sign up!!

software never make wrong results, TOPHOSTs was the best then host search then hotscripts



2. yesterday .. a famous host directory contacted me with some offers for the new year, i sent him questions about what the source of his great stats, he replied that he published in the hosting-tech magazine!!?

what i'll gain if he publish in the hosting magazine? he published to get more advertiser but do the simple customer who need a personal home page will buy the hosting-tech magazine?

:confused:



3. i know that webhostdir not have any answer... because he will answered proudly if he have any FACTS to say

"i sent him questions about what the source of his great stats, he replied that he published in the hosting-tech magazine!!? "

You know 2m - I think I finally agree with you on something. :) While a dir is wise to spend some of their dollars getting their name in front of their own prospects, ie: an ad in hosting tech, those that call this "their method of getting you customers" amaze me.

With the exception of perhaps a reseller dir or a purely dedicated server dir - is it not silly for a dir to factor somewhere like hosting tech as "how they bring you customers"?

Should that not be "how I use your money to bring myself more advertisers"? :)

Originally posted by HostDirs.com
Should that not be "how I use your money to bring myself more advertisers"? :)

That's a good one .... LOL :D

Originally posted by HostDirs.com
"i sent him questions about what the source of his great stats, he replied that he published in the hosting-tech magazine!!? "

You know 2m - I think I finally agree with you on something. :) While a dir is wise to spend some of their dollars getting their name in front of their own prospects, ie: an ad in hosting tech, those that call this "their method of getting you customers" amaze me.

With the exception of perhaps a reseller dir or a purely dedicated server dir - is it not silly for a dir to factor somewhere like hosting tech as "how they bring you customers"?

Should that not be "how I use your money to bring myself more advertisers"? :)

Maybe it shouldn't be the answer however more advertisers means more money - which could be spent on actual advertising :)

1 host talk against some host dir owners ..

any host give openion please :rolleyes:


webhostdir wrote:
"Egypt might be a long way away from us, but your data center isnt, would you like a legal letter issuing to them on our behalf???"

i call that the real ugly face

"which could be spent on actual advertising "

Yeah - I'm totally with you there Lonny - but why ad such a source as hosting tech as part of "how you bring the host customers".

webhostdir wrote:

"Egypt might be a long way away from us, but your data center isnt, would you like a legal letter issuing to them on our behalf???"

i call that the real ugly face.

--------

It definitely is. I'd ignore him though, he's just trying to play the "we are bigger than you, you are small, we have lawyers and we can crush you if you don't shut up" syndrome.

Basically he's trying to frighten you with a pre-emptive attack so you stop complaining about them. This is called a 'novice' bluff and he's obviously sensing that you are becoming dangerous to their interests.

Simple! :)

Originally posted by mistral1
This is called a 'novice' bluff and he's obviously sensing that you are becoming dangerous to their interests.

Simple! :)

LOL

James, why would you otherwise "threaten" him with legal action? If you're laughing about it, that means the threat was a joke right? So you were "bluffing" then?

Originally posted by mistral1
James, why would you otherwise "threaten" him with legal action? If you're laughing about it, that means the threat was a joke right? So you were "bluffing" then?

I was responding to his slanderous comment in an earlier posting.

Originally posted by 2Mhost

why you accept my money twice and ripped me off ?

mistral1 ..... i'm happy to be dangerous ;)
but he do not know that i have deep roots in this business more than most of ppl think ..

but webhostdir answers make me sure about my thoughts that webhostdir star is about to fall soon ..

anyway i do not wish to lose any good adverting space, just want host dirs to hear my noise if they interst to hear from a host depend %100 on web advertising (we do not have local market) to get new signups.

"James, why would you otherwise "threaten" him with legal action?"

What's he supposed to do - threaten to meet him in the school yard after class?

So are close to holding the record for longest thread yet? :)

Originally posted by HostDirs.com
"James, why would you otherwise "threaten" him with legal action?"

What's he supposed to do - threaten to meet him in the school yard after class?

So are close to holding the record for longest thread yet? :)

The funny thing is that the title was:

How Do Web Host Directories Drive Traffic to their Sites?

not what do you thikn of - C-I-H-O-S-T or anything of this nature :)

Lonny - i did not originally post this:

Originally posted by HostDirs.com
"James, why would you otherwise "threaten" him with legal action?"


I was just quoting another post.

Hostdirs.com, it seems (from your previous posts) that you're in a cosy relationship with webhostdir.com.... so your sympathy for James is understandable. ;)

Lonny, maybe you should check the previous posts and then decide who started to deviate from this thread's main purpose in the first place. It certainly wasn't M2host or mistral1!

Lol, fists were about to blow all over the cyber space.... with hostdirs.com teasing, challenging and accusing FMH (nic NovaW); FMH calling webhostdir.com some pretty slanderous names (His exact words: "That approach is conning the consumer - sorry but it is.").

Did James threaten to sue FMH for "slander"? No! Why? Why did he threaten the Egyptian guy with a so-called legal letter and not FMH?

Is it because that he was worried that he might be challenged by FMH, but thought that M2host is just a small fish he could play with?

FMH calling webhostdir.com some pretty slanderous names (His exact words: "That approach is conning the consumer - sorry but it is.").

Mistral1 - you need to keep your facts correct

My post you refer to had 2 main points

Point1 - WebHostDir is fair to hosts
Point2 - Presenting Ads as recommendations is miss-leading to the consumer.

At no point did I slander, accuse WebHostDir of anything or call them any names.

2M Host accused WebHostDir of ripping them off - which is a direct & specific accusation of wrong doing. James has every right to be upset by that posted in a public forum, especially given the reality is :-

- No hosting resource site ever promises sales, it promises traffic & exposure
- A hosts ability to do something with traffic & branding varies tremendously
- It is a hosts responsibility to perform due dilligence on choosing places to spend advertising $

mistral1,

There are various ways in dealing with slander and those who help spread it. The actions need not be direct to the source, for example WHT can be sued for hosting it.

I just wanted to point this out to you in reference of your inaccurate and misleading statements you make above.

Best regards
Tommy Lai

Originally posted by mistral1

Did James threaten to sue FMH for "slander"? No! Why? Why did he threaten the Egyptian guy with a so-called legal letter and not FMH?

As Andrew has pointed out. At no time has he made any allligations about Webhostdir. In fact quite the opposite. Andrew and I have spoken on several occasions and both respect each others business model. We are also educated enough to appreciate the scale of the web hosting market and the fact that there is never going to be only one source of sales leads. There is always room in our industry for new inovative marketing channels as is the case with FMH.

Your posting does imply i had some racist intent, chasing the "Egyptian guy" as you put it. My comments were regarding his company's place of business and not him personally. I merely stated that prospective clients may find misleading them about your office location is unethical.

Originally posted by Tommy

The actions need not be direct to the source ..... I just wanted to point this out to you in reference of your inaccurate and misleading statements you make above.
Well, what's the difference between these two alleged charges that have been levelled against you in this thread?

You're a con (conning the consumer)!

You ripped me off (you charged me twice)!

If you didn't know anything about the people behind those accusations, would you react to both with the same intensity or not?

Originally posted by mistral1


You ripped me off (you charged me twice)!



We did not charge him twice! He claims to have purchased ads from us twice. Which he now claims was a rip off. We did not twist his arm up his back the second time. You do the math.

James, you haven't answered my question. :)

"Hostdirs.com, it seems (from your previous posts) that you're in a cosy relationship with webhostdir.com"

Hahahaha - nope. In fact I cannot even get the suckers to list their dir on my site! grrrrrrr.

In truth - I just know they are a solid service and a strong business. Neither of those titles do you gain by doing the things you are accusing. That's all.

> Neither of those titles do you gain by doing the things you are accusing.

Haha, look who's talking about accusing? You might want to check your previous posts about FMH for a while. ;)

Also those two statements levelled against webhostdir.com have not originated from me.

I still haven't got the answer from James. :)

Mistral1.

If I made a statement like "Idiots are irritating"

Would that mean I called you an idiot?

Of course it would not. Follow the same logic with your thought process above.

Originally posted by mistral1
I still haven't got the answer from James. :)

What answer are you looking for? He's already said that FMH didnt make any comments about him conning consumers, and he's responded about the "rip off" remarks made by the other guy. So what are you waiting for? You seem very determined to keep this thread going. I saw it die yesterday after a few heated exchanges and then up you poped again to stoke the fire. Do you have a day job? Or are you a fulltime crusader on behalf of the common man?

You know I havent posted on this forum for months. So you've achieved something at least ;)

> If I made a statement like "Idiots are irritating" ....

That would be an insult. Slightly different than accusing someone as a con. ;)

I think you both (FindMyHosting and WebHostDir) deserve some credit for contributing to the marketing of the web hosting industry. It's up to the advertiser to use your services to their best advantage.

As hostdirs.com commented somewhere before, there are a few hosters that have grown their entire business by consistently advertising (or appearing in some format or another - e.g. interviews) in the hosting directories.

James, I knew my question was a bit tight. :)

Good luck!

-----
Bgrant, just noticed your post. Thanks for kicking in at the last minute with your half-baked-brain comments! :eek:

> Or are you a fulltime crusader on behalf of the common man?

Haha, loved that. Nice one! I'm enthralled!

So does this mean we're all friends again. I love happy endings ;)

LOL James.

You know this topic kinda reminded me of one of those old kung fu movies where it seems everyone is just whooping up on everyone!

Fun times!

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