First, I want to state that this is a long story (but worth reading I think). I have included all of the facts, and all of the events. I have no place else to turn, and feel that this forum may be the best place to post this. I know there are several threads already running about Powweb, but most of the threads got off topic a long time ago. Please allow this to remain in it’s own thread.

I am writing this to document my experiences with “POWWEB” web hosting incorporated (www.powweb.com). In April of 2001, I decided to start a website. I had no web design experience, and no experience in choosing a hosting company. I saw an advertisement on a message board I frequented for Powweb, went to their site, and signed up for a year of their service. At the time I set up my account, Powweb offered “unlimited bandwidth”, and 70 Megabytes of storage with their hosting packages. I had problems when I first set up my account that were mainly my fault (deleting files, or not knowing how to set up functions of my e-mail or web site), and Powweb was quick to correct them. During my first few months with the company, they had technical problems (like any company), and were quick to let the customers know what was wrong and what they were doing about it. Throughout the year they upgraded their hosting package from 70 to 250 Megabytes of storage, and changed their “unlimited” bandwidth – first to 12 Gigabytes/month, and eventually to the current level of 25 Gigabytes/month. Whenever they upgraded their services, they sent e-mails to existing customers that stated we would get the benefits of the new packages, and be able to keep the features of our previous package (such as “unlimited bandwidth”).

During the course of the first year, I referred several clients to their company and acquired free months of hosting via their “referral credit” promotion. This moved my renewal date from April of 2002, to August 22, 2002. The first year my site was up, it was mainly a “hobby”, and I averaged around 40 or so visitors/day. Around May of 2002, I decided to add a forum to my site. I purchased a “MYSQL” database from Powweb (for a $30.00 fee), and paid (a third party $25.00) to install a forum for me. This increased the number of visitors to my site. In June of 2002, I purchased a second domain name, and paid a $25.00 fee to have the name “Aliased” to my current account. Within a matter of weeks, the number of visitors to my site began to increase dramatically. So did the bandwidth used by my site. I would estimate that during the first year of my site, I never used over 2 Gigs/month. In June of 2002, I used approximately 18 Gigs. In July this went to approximately 38 Gigs, and my site was still growing. I realized that as my bandwidth usage increased, I would eventually have to contend with renewing my site, and working under the new terms that Powweb was offering (a bandwidth limit of 25 Gigs/month).

Around July 15th, an incident occurred that concerned me about Powweb’s commitment to customer satisfaction. I was surprised to check my e-mail and find a message from Powweb support stating that I was receiving my “final warning” about sending “SPAM”, and that my account was in jeopardy of being terminated. I had absolutely no idea what they were talking about, and wrote back and asked for more information. My site is Law Enforcement related, and contains links to many different Law Enforcement agencies. I had a “form” on my site that allowed visitors to submit links to their websites. I set up the form using my web building software (Microsoft FrontPage 2002), and set it to forward all of the submissions directly to me in the form of e-mail. Powweb informed me that there was apparently a security flaw in the form that was allowing someone to send e-mail to third parties using the form. The responses I got back from Powweb Technical Support made it sound like I had been aware of the problem. They informed me that they had disabled the form on at least two occasions, and placed a “README” file in my web directory informing me of the situation. They implied that I had intentionally ignored these files, and had re-enabled the form despite their warnings. I informed them that by using FrontPage, I never actually saw the files that were placed in my web directory. I also informed them that when a person publishes a web with FrontPage, the software automatically looks for problems in the web (such as a form that has been disabled) and fixes it. I disabled the forms, and asked for further assistance in setting up a more secure e-mail system. I was told to “respond to our support forums”, to ask for assistance. I posted a request for help in the support forum, and never received any assistance.

About this time, I was also becoming aware of my bandwidth situation. I knew that I would have to renew my account soon, and would no longer be able to sign up for an “unlimited bandwidth” plan. Since all requests for customer assistance were now being referred to their support forums, I began inquiring in the forums about how I could get someone from Powweb to contact me about my account. As my account renewal date approached (August 22) I posted a thread in their forum on August 2nd stating that I was coming up on my renewal date, and wanted assistance. I told that I anticipated that my site would be using a maximum of 100 Gigs, and that I wanted to know if it was possible to “combine” several of their packages into one account. I received a reply from one of their Technical Support, and forum Administrator “Starr”, who told me “Powweb is not equipped to provide you with what you need… check into a dedicated server”. It was also suggested that I purchase multiple accounts. I stated that I didn’t want the hassle of trying to monitor several different packages at once (I also have two other sites hosted on Powweb), and trying to “juggle” files if my bandwidth limit on one of the accounts was being approached. I also stated that my site was a “hobby” site, and was paid for out of my pocket. I did not want to leave Powweb because the expenses for the “additional services” I had purchased over the last 3 months ($80.00 overall) would be lost. I was in no financial position to purchase a dedicated server. Since I knew “Starr” to be a Tech Rep, I requested that someone from Powweb contact me to discuss options. When I signed up for my original account, the “terms of service” stated that if a customer was having bandwidth problems, Powweb would contact them and they would work with the customer to resolve the situation. My request to be contacted was met without a response.

On August 20th of this year (two days before my “unlimited bandwidth” package expired), I attempted to log on to my site. It was not working. I had recently seen in the support forums that several customers had had problems with their servers lately, so I inquired in the forums if there was a problem with my server. I received a response in the forum from “Starr” that simply stated “Check your account history”. After searching my control panel (I had never accessed my “account history” before, and did not know where to find it), I saw a message that stated my site had been “disabled” for “bandwidth abuse”. I had received no warning, or contact of any type from Powweb, and responded back in the support forum that I was still on an “unlimited bandwidth” package. I also made it clear in the forum that I had been trying for quite some time to get someone from Powweb to contact me regarding my bandwidth. I told “Starr” that I wanted to do what was necessary to resolve the issue, and get my site back up as quickly as possible. I then offered to make a deal with “Starr”, and said that when my account was due for renewal, I would offer to pay $250.00 for the next year’s hosting. This worked out to just over the cost of 3 hosting packages. I also stated I would put a banner for their company on my site if they agreed to this. The only reply I received was “your account has been turned back on” (this message was from “Starr”). Within a matter of a couple of hours, the entire thread was deleted from the forum, and I took this to mean that they had accepted my offer. I never received an e-mail (or any other form of contact) from them stating otherwise.

On August 22nd, the date of my renewal, my credit card was charged for a year of hosting. I assumed that the additional money would be processed as a second transaction. After my site was shut down on August 20th I had informed the members of my forum that my hosting situation was resolved, and I was “good to go” for the next year. I then went about my business like normal… a “satisfied customer”.

On August 28th, I attempted to access my site, and was surprised to see the same screen that was displayed when it had previously been shut down for “bandwidth abuse”. This time, I went directly to my “account history”, and saw a message from “Starr” that stated “You are now over your 25 GB bandwidth limit in only 6 days (he then lists the bandwidth total - for 7 days - two of which were still part of my previous contract). If you wish to remain with Powweb you must pre-pay for the amount of bandwidth you will use if you continue like you are currently. You need to pre-pay $836.00 for the rest of the month to keep your site w/Powweb open. Failure to pay will result in the termination of your account. No Refunds.”

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Needless to say I was quite shocked. I checked my e-mail to see if they had contacted me about the situation. When they adopted a bandwidth limit, they changed their policy so that if you were using excessive bandwidth, they would send you a form that stated that if you went over the bandwidth limit, you would agree to pay a fee of $8.00 for every additional Gigabyte of transfer you used. (You were supposed to sign the form and fax it back to them). I had received NO notification of any type. I then checked called their “customer service” line (it is not a “toll-free” number), to talk to them. When I was connected with a representative, I asked to speak with a Supervisor, but my request was denied. I then explained the situation to the guy on the phone (unfortunately I did not get his name, but he was very polite and listened to my situation). After telling him the story, he said that it sounded like I was not being treated fairly. He stated that he would talk to his Supervisor about the situation, and would e-mail me that evening (Wednesday August 28th), or the following day. I stated that I would prefer to talk to someone from Powweb by phone. He stated that they were “not allowed” to call long distance. I told him that if he would send me an e-mail with the name and number of someone I could speak with, I would call them (at my own expense). I then waited.

Wednesday evening, Thursday, and Friday passed without any contact of any type from Powweb. After the close of business hours on Friday (I knew once their offices closed I would definitely hear from them over the Holiday weekend), I responded to the support forums and told my story. I explained everything from the start. I did not use any profanity, nor did I make any statement that was overly critical of Powweb (I have a copy of this post if the folks from Powweb want to dispute this statement). I simply stated that I was upset because first off, I still hadn’t been contacted by anyone from Powweb. And second, it was my understanding that an agreement had been reached. I reiterated that I just wanted someone from Powweb to contact me so that we could work something out. After posting this, I received a Private Messages, and several e-mails that told me that the problem was probably “Starr”, and that he had a history of poor customer service (a check of some of the other threads in this forum will re-affirm this… he told one customer to “go play in a sandbox” – Starr is registered in this forum as “mr monkey”). Even though my post was civil, and only complained of a lack of customer service, I was shocked to see that it was deleted from the forum just after I posted it. I then contacted the moderator of the forum “alphadesk” (also a member of this forum) by private message. I asked why my message had been deleted. He did not answer, but told me that he wasn’t the one that deleted my message, and that I knew what I was signing up for when I renewed my account. I asked if he could help me work something out to get my site back up. I told him that I was still interested in keeping my account at Powweb, if he could work with me. He then informed me that he didn’t actually work for Powweb; he was just a moderator of their forums.

By then, the lack of contact with anyone from Powweb was frustrating me. I then got on the forum and inquired as to why my post was deleted. In the post I let my anger get the best of me, and made a comment about “Starr’s” “lack of customer service skills”. I later observed that my post had been moderated by “alphadesk” (the part about “Starr” was removed), and he had replied that “Powweb has repeatedly given you their answer, but you refuse to accept the answer and continue to insist that they change their policy for you.” I responded that not only was that incorrect, but it was totally false. Powweb still had never contacted me. They had not answered my requests for e-mail, nor had they returned my phone call. Of course this thread was then deleted.

I then went to their “pre-sales questions” forum… a forum where potential customers can inquire about the company and services. I started a thread entitled “before you sign up”, and explained the level of customer service I had received. I did not use any profanity, nor was I slanderous in any way… I only related the facts as they had occurred. A potential customer responded that it sounded like I was not being treated very well. “Alphadesk” then replied to the potential customer by stating “there’s something you need to know about this customer. I checked his account and he has repeatedly violated the terms of service, and now is getting on this board and flaming all over”. I was shocked that a person that wasn’t an employee of Powweb (but he is a moderator of their forum) would make a statement like that. Aside from the one post I made about “Starr”, I had made no statement that could in any way be perceived as “flaming”. I responded that the only “violations” of the terms of service I could think of were when I had the incident described above about the e-mail, and then the first time I was shut down for “bandwidth abuse”. I then reiterated that when I was shut down the first time, I was still technically entitled to “unlimited bandwidth”. I further stated that all I had ever wanted… from the start… was to be contacted by someone from Powweb. This response remained up for less than 3 hours before it was deleted.

I then typed up my entire story. I stated at the beginning that I would not include anything but the facts of my ordeal, and would not include anything that could in any way be deemed controversial. I just wanted to tell my story. I still have 2 other accounts at Powweb (one won’t expire until November of 2003), and since Powweb would not return calls or e-mails, the forum was my only way to communicate with them. I posted it, and it was deleted. I could not understand why because I did not include anything in the story that was not true. I then started observing that many different posts that were critical of the service provided by Powweb were being deleted. I started a post that made it clear to potential customers that they should be leery of what they read in the forums because it was “censored”. This post remained up for some time, and received responses from several other folks that had posts critical of the level of service provided by Powweb deleted. Then that entire thread and all of the subsequent comments was deleted. Apparently, it is Powweb’s practice to remove any post from their forum that sheds a negative light on the company. I find this odd, because in this forum they are constantly telling potential customers "if you want to see how happy our customers are, you should check their support forums". Clearly the reason they tell people this is because they remove all of the negative comments

I began searching for a new host. My main concern then became retrieving my files from Powweb, and ensuring that since my credit card was still on file with the, I was not fraudulently charged for any additional charges by their company. I went to their forum, and without mentioning the circumstances of my situation – only that I was leaving (thinking that it would not give them a reason to delete my post), I asked if there was a way to obtain a copy of my database (they had disabled my access to any portion of my website). In another post, I asked if there was a way to remove my credit card information from my suspended account, and the other accounts that were still active. These posts were also deleted. On Tuesday September 3rd, I spent several hours trying to contact Powweb by phone. It was now 6 days since I had spoken with someone by phone and was told I would be contacted no later than the next day. All I received from them was a message that stated, “all of our operators are busy, please send us an e-mail or post in the support forums” (I have also observed from other posts in this forum that this appears to be a common occurrence when they are experiencing technical difficulty – the inability to contact them by phone. I have never tried contacting them by phone before this incident). Upon returning to the support forums, I saw that my username and all of the posts I had ever made (dating back over 6 months) had been deleted. I attempted to re-sign up for a new account and was unable to do this because my IP address has been banned. This is very upsetting, because as I stated, I have two other accounts that are stuck with them (one until July 2003, and one until November 2003). Since they won’t answer phones, or e-mails, I now have no means for technical support for these accounts.

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I finally secured new hosting for my site today, and it is back up and running (after being down for six days). I’m assuming that I will continue to be denied access to my database, and that I have lost the money spent for a years hosting. The main thing that bothers me is that all I ever wanted from them was for someone to contact me. To this date, I have never received an e-mail, fax, letter, phone call, private message, or any form of correspondence from Powweb. Aside from the money I lost, I also lost my forum database that contained information on the 360 members of my forum and the 3000+ messages. But, more importantly I have lost my trust. I have never been treated as badly as Powweb has treated me. I will be contacting the Attorney General for the state of California (where they are located), and if it wouldn’t cost me more money to sue them than I would get back, I’d contact my attorney. But I also want to make sure that more folks don’t make the same mistake I did. I’m not going to bad mouth their company and say you shouldn’t use them. Aside for the last week I was there (when I was first shut down and then turned back on, and then this final incident) I was very happy with their service. In the beginning, I could count on prompt service, and near the end, I could count on someone from the forums to help out. But I want people to know that the old adage of “you get what you pay for” is true. You are choosing a “discount” hosting company… and that’s the level of service you will get. The only thing wrong with their company is the practice of some of their employee’s when it comes to customer service. If this is something that is not important to you, then choose their company.

The only thing I have asked for from their company during this entire incident was some communication. Right now, I’d just be happy if I can get a copy of my database. Sure, I’d like a refund (I’d even settle for a refund of the unused months on my account). Since my site was disabled before I used over 25 Gigs of bandwidth, I am assuming that my account will be active again when the new month rolls around. (The message that “Starr” sent me when he disabled my account not only included an incorrect number of days, but he also included days that were still covered by my previous contract).

Now, since I know that at least two of their forum moderators are also members of this forum, and I’m sure they will get on here and say that I’m a “disgruntled customer”… I want to challenge them to prove that anything I said in this post is not true and accurate. I have tried to be as accurate on the quotes as possible, but since all of the messages have now been deleted (I was luck enough to make copies of many of the posts before they were deleted) I may be off by a word or two. I have not embellished on any of the events, nor have I “flamed” anybody. And, I am STILL a customer, and feel I have a right to voice my honest opinion of their company. If they can give me a valid reason why I was never contacted by anyone from their company, then I will gladly delete this entire message! I would also like to know how I am supposed to receive support for my remaining sites now that I have been banned from their forum.

Thank you for taking the time to read my story.

Chris Wipperman
www.10-7.com

PS... (like I need to say more)

If anyone else is interested in contacting the Attorney General with me, please feel free to e-mail me. Maybe we can all send our complaints on the same day.

I really feel for you. I wish there were something I could do to help you, but apart from my hopes that your new host will be better in the support-department, I don't know what. Hopefully I will never be in this situation, and I always have backups of my site. I have no experience with forums, but know they can be backed up as well. I can understand that using software like Frontpage, makes you rely on what the software provides, instead of really looking through the files and folders on the server through ftp.

Good luck in the future, and be prepared for the worst. That way, you can always leave a host with the knowledge you have not lost your data. If all is fine, then stay with your host, feeling secure in the knowledge you always have a backup.

Basically, most hosts count on people using less resources then they pay for. Forums that use 38 GIG in transfer (or bandwidth as you call it) monthly probably use too much CPU for a shared server environment. A host who makes about $4 or $5 per account the size of which, he can place a couple of hundred on a server, wants just that. Many small acounts, without a lot of usage. They do not want to manage a dedicated server because they will only make a couple of hundred on it, VS. a couple of thousand.
Now, that part is over, They should have just flat out told you "You need a ded, and we don't manage ded's" It isn't always about transfer. On a shared server, it is about CPU usage as well. Combining packages won't help.
They should NOT have taken your money for renewal for this account though. Maybe it was a software billing mistake? Or they just didn't Catch it in time to cancel it.
They should have let you retrieve your files, however.
For what you paid for their database, and domain pointing services, most do for free. So be glad you are outa there!
Trust me, I have heard much worse about Powweb than this.
I hope your new host is aware of your sites usage so this doesn't occur again.

You are correct about back-ups. Fortunately I had all of my site backed up except the forum. The problem is that I had been unable to back up the MYSQL database. Every time I tried to back it up, I got a "500 (or maybe 505) Error".

There are two theories as to why this was happening.

1. When the forum was created, the setup of the database required a special "heading" ("#!/usr/local/bin/php") be placed on all of the php pages. A short time after my forum was installed, they upgraded and this heading was no longer required. But, all of my pages had this on them. One theory floating around the forums was that this was the cause.

2. The second possibility is that my database was about 13 Megabytes, and powweb doesn't allow the transfer of files over 10 Megs. This is more likely.

Either way, I wasn't concerned because as far as I knew, I had another year at least to worry about moving my database to another server. Powweb supposedly made back-up's of their files so I wasn't worried. However, if you check their "policy", it states that " PowWeb does not guarantee the existence, accuracy, or regularity of its backup services".

If I only would have had a little warning from them that they were going to take my money for the next year, then deny me access to my site.... I could have prepared.

I prefer lawsuits. Maybe it would be a good idea to round up a class action lawsuit and let them have it for false advertising/decptive advertising and whatever else they could be nailed with. I am so pissed off with these people now that I would love to help round up a lawsuit and aim it at them.

In my case, my lack of forethought had a role in the issues but be rate a customer because they had lost thier password, and couldn't use thier "lost password" retrival form is insane. I dont care how stupid a customer is, a simple request like that is no cause to get your panties in a bunch.

Quick Update....

Two e-mails were sent early this morning. The "tracking numbers" were: 628e0cadc87c7a7859cde399fc208692, and a40142634f7c76289893d9f3de6ff454.

No response on either message.

I am still banned from the forum.

An attempt to call their customer service line (1-310-278-8926) was met with the standard recorded message "all of our customer service agents are busy please send an e-mail or respond to the community forums".

Originally posted by CWIPPERMAN
Quick Update....

Two e-mails were sent early this morning. The "tracking numbers" were: 628e0cadc87c7a7859cde399fc208692, and a40142634f7c76289893d9f3de6ff454.

No response on either message.

I am still banned from the forum.

An attempt to call their customer service line (1-310-278-8926) was met with the standard recorded message "all of our customer service agents are busy please send an e-mail or respond to the community forums".

Looks like it is time for you to move on! Don't you think?

Intellic,

I would love to move on but, I am still a customer of their company. I know for a fact that at least two people that are affiliated with their company regularly visit this forum. They refuse to acknowledge my phone calls, e-mails, or any other attempts to contact them. They refuse to give me access to my database, and won't tell me why they are doing this. They also accepted payment for a year of hosting, knowing what my bandwidth situation was, and then shut me down 6 days later. All I have ever asked for from them was for a representative of their company to contact me. I'm sorry if it feels like I'm over-doing it, but if you were in my situation how would you react?

I have no other place to turn. I am just hoping that someone from their company will see this message in this forum, and try to do something to help me out. If you can offer any suggestions, I am more than willing to listen. I have moved my site. But I have to decide whether or not I need to start my forum over from scratch, or if I can get a copy of my database (like I was promised when I was able to talk to someone on the phone).

I also feel it is necessary to warn other folks looking into this company what they can expect in the way of customer service. Trust me.... I would like nothing better than to "move on", and get this whole ordeal behind me.

Originally posted by CWIPPERMAN
You are correct about back-ups. Fortunately I had all of my site backed up except the forum. The problem is that I had been unable to back up the MYSQL database. Every time I tried to back it up, I got a "500 (or maybe 505) Error".

There are two theories as to why this was happening.

1. When the forum was created, the setup of the database required a special "heading" ("#!/usr/local/bin/php") be placed on all of the php pages. A short time after my forum was installed, they upgraded and this heading was no longer required. But, all of my pages had this on them. One theory floating around the forums was that this was the cause.

2. The second possibility is that my database was about 13 Megabytes, and powweb doesn't allow the transfer of files over 10 Megs. This is more likely.

Either way, I wasn't concerned because as far as I knew, I had another year at least to worry about moving my database to another server. Powweb supposedly made back-up's of their files so I wasn't worried. However, if you check their "policy", it states that " PowWeb does not guarantee the existence, accuracy, or regularity of its backup services".

If I only would have had a little warning from them that they were going to take my money for the next year, then deny me access to my site.... I could have prepared.


theres a section under ca law about deceptive marketing practices, i consider that deceptive

Like I said, they will deserve a lawsuit if they get one.

CWIPPERMAN:

Do what I did: leave them for something worth having and demand a refund. If they dont give it to you, then call your credit card company...

One of the magical bonuses of using a CREDIT Card for making purchases is that if you get screwed, you can always contact the CC company and dispute the charges.

This can be done usually over the phone, or on the back of your next statement. You state your intent to dispute the charge with a brief reason why. The CC company then issues you a credit for that ammount while they investigate the matter. Even if you loose, you at least dont have that balance on your card as long as the dispute is active. And I for one have never lost.

That could be a viable alternative for you for getting your money back. You could probably do the same thing with your other accounts as well.

*To Note*
This will not work if you used a DEBIT card issued by your bank. Also discovered by me. It must be an actual credit card with revolving credit, not a direct withdrawl from a checking acct.

Yes, I would dispute the charges right away

Andrax:

Actually, you are incorrect. If a debit card bears the Visa/Mastercard logo and can be used in place of a Visa/Mastercard, it is regulated by Regulation Z, which the law that allows you to dispute a credit card transaction in the first place.

If your bank refused to accept your complaint on a debit card, you need to contact The Federal Reserve and complain about your banks non-compliance with Regulation Z.

I only have one credit card (an Amex Card) and I use debit cards for everything else. I have never had a problem getting credit when it was appropriate. Belive me when I say I know about these sorts of things.

If you live outside the USA, this might be different where you are.

My understanding is a little different...

Regulation Z - Truth in Lending - doesn't apply as credit is not being extended.


Just checked the fed reserve... this is correct. Credit cards are Regulation Z, debit cards fall under the EFTA (Regulation E) not TILA (Reg Z).

I realize that it bears the Visa/MC logo and can be used "In place of" a credit card. But its not the same as a credit card. I have to agree with labgeek that its not subject to Regulation Z because no credit is being extended. Its guarenteed payment to the seller.

Not to say you cant get your money back, but rather then having the bank do the deal, you have to convince the seller to do it on their own.

I just want everyone to know that this morning I have been talking with "Andrew" from Powweb by e-mail. He has worked with me to resolve my situation, and I am now happy with the outcome of this incident. I would like to request that a moderator delete this post. The only thing I was asking for was some contact from Powweb, and now I have it.

Thank You to all that read and responded.

Chris Wipperman
www.10-7.com

Glad to hear it d00d.

Good luck Chris! I'm glad they contacted you. It's good to know that this is a place to get help and get in touch with the host when regular channels fail.